Joe5.0

My brakes are now just about as shot as they can be. I tracked the car a couple months ago and really warped the brakes, along with smoked the pads a couple times. Now the rears are really really squeaking so I need to replace the stuff asap.

I have been researching the options and this is what I have come up with:

• Brembo blanks are better than stock, and they are only $65/piece. They can still warp though.
• Rotora's are nicer looking (slotted) and are only a little more expensive ($300 total from excelerate), but a couple people have warped them also.
• The Rotora BBK is good, but no way I'm gonna spend $1300 on brakes for my DD that I will never take to the road course again.
• Axis Metal Masters leave alot of brake dust, and not too many other people have used Hawks or non-oem pads

Is any of that wrong?

Ok now for my questions.

- Is there any way to use the 04 TL 6 speed Brembo calipers/rotors on our car without any mods?
- Has anyone used the Satisfied Pro Ceramic pads? Decent at all?
- How bad are the Hawk HPS when cold? I've read some reviews and people have said they arent great until they are hot. I drive my car alot in the winter and dont want to have to cycle the brakes to have nice stopping. Is this a condition of all performance pads? Would it be better to stick with oe or oem style pads with the new rotors?
- Does this look like a con? I cant find anywhere that sells Brembo slotted/cross drilled rotors for our car, not even on brembo's site. I already emailed them about whether the MM's were the actual pads sent.

Any other suggestions for a cost efficient pad/rotor replacement that will perform at least a little better than stock?

power3dfx

dont get hawks. if you are going to get anything, just get the brembo blanks with axxis ultimates or some other pad. dont get hawks period!

Joe5.0

Well I have HPS' that I need to install on my mustang, and they came pretty highly recommended by people that actually race, which is what I do with my mustang. Thats not so much of a concern with my CL, I just want a combo that stops better than stock (since i now have 19's), and wont warp every 15k miles.

kensukikatayo

The Satisfied Pro Ceramics barely dust at all, I wash my car at least once a week but there's no buildup at all, they brake better than stock too. Rotora slotted is the best combo of value and performance, best bang for the buck so go for it. Plus they look sick!

Dem1K

iTrader: (1)

i've had my rotora front rotors with the akebono pads up front, and so far they've been great. When the pads aren't warmed up and you're braking slowly, say in a drive-thru, they squeal a bit, but that's only when they're cold. I'm very satisfied with my setup

kensukikatayo

Use some No-Squeal on the metal shims, I've never heard anything from my brakes since.

Joe5.0

From the more searching I've done I'm either gonna go with some cheapo napa rotors ($120 all 4) or go all out and get the Rotora's & probably either Bosch, Axxis Metal Master, or Satisfied Pro Cermamic pads.

I just dont wanna drop $400 in brakes if they are gonna warp in 15k miles because the calipers just plain suck. I'd rather spend $200 and resurface them next time around.

russianDude

I got Akebano pads and Brembo blanks.
I am VERY happy with the setup. Better and cheaper than stock.
thats all I care about.

mrsteve

iTrader: (1)

I've had my Rotora rotors for nearly 25k miles (I transfered them from my old CL-S to my new CL-S) and I've had no problems with warping. I'm using the Hawk HPS Street pads and I'm not sure if they bite as well as the Axxis Ultimates I had before but they aren't as noisey as the Axxis pads nor do they dust as much. I do no have SS lines on my new CL-S so its hard to compare the two pads because the brake lines are different. I'm happy with them though.

zoltanh

These rotors seem like a great alternative to generic blanks or rotoras https://acurazine.com/forums/sponsored-sales-group-buys-10/racingbrake-rotors-available-here-now-316102/

mrsteve

iTrader: (1)

$440 for just rotors? No thanks. Especially when they are some no-name brand. They say they are better than Brembo, Powerslot, etc. But where's the proof?

TampaBayCLS

YOU HAVE PM

Joe5.0

Exactly my point of view.

Are the Brembo's any thicker than stock, meaning if they do warp they can maybe be resurfaced more than once? Do the Rotora's really last twice as long as the Brembo's, because if not the Brembo's are a better deal, but dont look as cool. Hmmmm decisions....

SkillmatiC

my breaks have been annoying me lately

can u explain what No-Squeal is?

u got a link for it?...thanks...

my ears are gonna start to bleed soon....

TampaBayCLS

[QUOTE=Joe5.0]Exactly my point of view.

Brembo's are not any thicker than any other standard replacement rotor. They can't be since you still are using the stock calipers and brackets. The Gran Turismo is thicker by 2mm and is also 28mm bigger in diameter. The advantage with Brembo is that they actually own and cast their own rotors. They control the entire process. Rotora, Powerslot, Powerstop, etc do not. They are purchasing blanks from the few foundries that exist and machining them.

Now, back on my soapbox. 99% of rotor problems is not a "warping" issue. It is a pad issue. It is extremely difficult for pad manufacturers to produce a pad that will work in every climate and every driving style. That is why you hear some members love Hawk, Axxis or GBC and others hate them. What happens during braking is the friction surface heats up to a point that the rotor and friction are actually melding together. When the surface cools they are suppose to separate from each other. The problem is they do not completely separate and a small amount of friction material is left on the rotor surface. This material left behind causes "humps" on the rotor surface which when braking causes the steering wheel vibration.

Has anyone read the TSB for the rotor "warping" from Acura? It is a pad upgrade not a rotor upgrade. The TSB says to turn the rotors and to replace them if worn past the minimum thickness.

Joe5.0

Well then why have more people warped the Brembo's than the Rotora's? Do the slots really help prevent the pad material from building up since they kind of clean the pads when used? Is the rotora's of a better material? I know that the actual rotors dont warp, since you can literally feel the deposited pad material on the rotors, and I appreciate the explanation.

With that said, is there any pad that is known to have low depositing qualities and still have decent performance? I drive alot like most people I think, and no future track events are planned.

mrsteve

iTrader: (1)

Meh... who cares how they look? They're stock size. I've been to the track just about as much as anyone here and making quick stops from 110 MPH to 15-20 hasn't caused any ill effects on the rotors.

mrsteve

iTrader: (1)

And in my experience more people have warped the Brembos.

Joe5.0

Well normally I wouldnt care, but I've got 19's now, and the stock rotors look a little dinky, so maybe some caliper paint & slotted rotors would help a little.

mrsteve

iTrader: (1)

Get the Rotoras and paint the caliper black

Joe5.0

I am undecided what color to paint them (if I do), altho black will def be easy to keep decent looking, but silver always looks nice.

CleanCL

iTrader: (4)

ive got ebc geenstuff and they stop NICE and dont dust too much at all. thats if you dont mind the little bit of green brake pad you see sitting in the caliper. oh btw - i have rotoras slotted and greenstuff all around. very nice setup, but personally i might just go with the rotora BBK.

TampaBayCLS

What pads were the people using with the Brembo rotors? That is more of the issue. I suspect the majority went some kind of ceramic pad. Our cars are OE equipped with semi-metallic pads. Ceramics obviously have different heat coefficients and maybe that is the issue.

I have been a brake parts distributor for the last 25 years and I have tried many different brands of pads for the last 11 years starting with my 94 Vigor that has the same "warped" rotor issue. I have not found one yet that does not "warp" the rotors. There is a new company out in California that has a new friction material that I am trying to get samples of.

I do not know about the slotted rotors cleaning the pads. I will contact my Brembo rep tomorrow and ask. All rotors are basically cast iron. Brembo does put a higher content of carbon in some rotors, and the sport kits, for better cooling (of course not 2nd gen's).

goredcar

I had serious probs with warping rotors... had them replaved 3 times on warranty and just got sick of it. This summer I bought a set of Racing Concepts rotors from a member on this site and not only do they look great, but they also work really well. They are cross drilled and have a really polished look, so I painted my calipers silver. I used ceramic pads and they leave no dust.

car_lost

WRONG. im not sure about powerslot or powerstop, but rotora casts their own rotors as well. they cast them with the slots and drilled.

Starter

[QUOTE=TampaBayCLS]Unadulterated BS.

Starter

If this is a pad issue, perhaps you can explain why other brands of cars do not have these warping problems? All oem rotors are made of the same material, steel, only difference being size, thickness, ventilated, etc. All of the pads mentioned here, as well as others have been used by many, many people on various brand/models of vehicles. Why no problems there from the same pads you say are causing issues on Honda/Acura? Think about it, what you say makes no logical sense what so ever.

kensukikatayo

Our cars are just too damn heavy, FWD, single piston, which puts too much stress on our brake system. That's what I've gotten from researching before I got my Rotora slotted and Satisfied Pro Ceramics which will ultimately warp...

civicking

update on my setup, i have brembo blanks, aem pads and the legend 2 piston calipers and they are starting to warp again, i think my next step is to see how i can get more air flow around the brakes to keep the cooler, a cooler brake is a better braking system, i think that is the main reason why the stock setup warp sso much, they can't cool fast enough and start to over heat and warp. its not padsor rotors or calipers because i have tried about ever combination available and they still do it.

car_lost

have you tried rotora rotors?

power3dfx

youve cracked it buddy! auto trannies fail most of the time due to overheating. so do brakes. so do engines. the point is heat is the enemy here and if you can find a way to route more air to the brakes, you will help cool the brakes and thus less chance of overheating.
however, the bigger the braking system, the better the resistance to fade and warpage. for most people, a BBK would be able to absorb and dissipitate heat better than stock to the point that it wont warp. but if you track the car, a simple BBK may not be enough!

TampaBayCLS

If it doesn't make sense then I guess Acura's TSB is BS also. Have you ever read it?
They upgrade the pads not the rotors. The whole design of our brakes is the ultimate issue. The Cl's are severly under braked and therefore generating excessive heat where other Honda/Acura designs do not.

TampaBayCLS

I am going to assume you know who Carroll Smith was. If not, he was a extremely successful race car driver and Carroll Shelby's race team manager. I assume you know who Carroll Shelby was. An excerpt from his writings:

The term "warped brake disc" has been in common use in motor racing for decades. When a driver reports a vibration under hard braking, inexperienced crews, after checking for (and not finding) cracks often attribute the vibration to "warped discs". They then measure the disc thickness in various places, find significant variation and the diagnosis is cast in stone.

When disc brakes for high performance cars arrived on the scene we began to hear of "warped brake discs" on road going cars, with the same analyses and diagnoses. Typically, the discs are resurfaced to cure the problem and, equally typically, after a relatively short time the roughness or vibration comes back. Brake roughness has caused a significant number of cars to be bought back by their manufacturers under the "lemon laws". This has been going on for decades now - and, like most things that we have cast in stone, the diagnoses are wrong.

With one qualifier, presuming that the hub and wheel flange are flat and in good condition and that the wheel bolts or hat mounting hardware is in good condition, installed correctly and tightened uniformly and in the correct order to the recommended torque specification, in more than 40 years of professional racing, including the Shelby/Ford GT 40s – one of the most intense brake development program in history - I have never seen a warped brake disc. I have seen lots of cracked discs, (FIGURE 1) discs that had turned into shallow cones at operating temperature because they were mounted rigidly to their attachment bells or top hats, (FIGURE 2) a few where the friction surface had collapsed in the area between straight radial interior vanes, (FIGURE 3) and an untold number of discs with pad material unevenly deposited on the friction surfaces - sometimes visible and more often not. (FIGURE 4)

In fact every case of "warped brake disc" that I have investigated, whether on a racing car or a street car, has turned out to be friction pad material transferred unevenly to the surface of the disc. This uneven deposition results in thickness variation (TV) or run-out due to hot spotting that occurred at elevated temperatures.

Starter

Your cite is just a "little" dated. Suggest you find the back issues of the Sports Car Club of America's mag 'Sports Car'. There were a couple of excellant articles on braking systems there in the last 6 or 9 months. I don't keep back issues, so can't give you the exact reference.

Agree the CL is underbraked big time and that just exacerbates the overheating problem which causes the warping. A large number of people here have reported having the brakes "upgraded" via the TSB only to have the problem return fairly quickly. How come if they've got the new pads -- maybe it's not the pads? It is not just CL/TLs with the problem, ALL Honda products are famous for brake warpage.

TampaBayCLS

What do you consider a "little" dated. He wrote this in 2001 with revisons up until his death in 2003.

The upgraded pads are not that much better. Do not forget we are talking about a fix by a stealership.

I have only owned the two Acura's but the GM's, Ford and many Toyota's I have owned never had this problem. The excessive heat, because of the poor brake design, causes a pad failure. I'm sure you have seen glowing orange hot rotors on race cars and they do not have a steering wheel vibration because they use a brake friction that directly matches their driving conditions. There is not a aftermarket pad that will work for the soccer mom in Maine and the street racer in Miami. There is not a catch-all fix for the entire membership.

I have only owned the two Acura/Honda products.

russianDude

My theory is that fully ceramic pads will give your rotors and pads the longest life.
Akabano feels soft when I stop. But they supposed to last long. I've had it for 6 month, and they feel great.