dereklanham

Those of us who are more technical in nature than our Service Departments may find they don't know much about our Navigation Systems........

THE PROBLEM:
I first noticed that as I drive down he road the Navigation system thinks that I am taking many of the exits, only to realize a few seconds later that I am still on the freeway, and it then has to re-calculation (a faster processor would be nice). As I started paying more attention to this, I noticed that as I drove down the road, the arrow representing the car was usually off to the right about 5-15 degrees, but would occasionally appear to self correct. This was mildly irritating.

Then when I was driving in to get my 7500 mile services (at 6100 miles), I was moving very slowly on the freeway in traffic doing about 10 mph, when I noticed the navi was showing that I was off the road and turning around... I wasn't of course. Before it corrected several minutes later, it had my direction about 150 degrees off.

Since then this has happened 2 or 3 times that it has gotten wildly off.

When getting my service I talked to the service guys and they said that they had to observe the problem before they could do anything (I understand). So the mechanic when for a ride with me for about 15 minutes and, of course, the navi worked perfectly.

I asked what they would fix if they observed what I saw, and they said that they would have to replace the entire unit including getting into the dask to get the screen out.... (This doens't make sense to me, but I am not sure how the components are layed out)

My suspecisions are that this is a problem with the Gyro, and that it will continue to get worse till I can show the dealership the problem and get it replaced.

My question to you....

1) Has anyone had a similar experience? What happened?

2) Does anyone know were the Gyro is located? Where the GPS receiver/antenna is located? And how much is in the Dash with the screen? I would suspect that everything is in the trunk in the unit with the DVD, and there is just a cable running up to the display.

3) Any other suggestions?

You guys are great, I know that I can count out you for good info.... I already told the guys at Acura that this was a better place to find info than the dealership. (I said it nicely)

Later,
Derek

Marc S

Thats cause the Navi sucks :pfawk: :pfawk: J/k, just one of my chances to make myself feel a little better about not getting navi...... i still wish i got it though

40 oz

You might mave already tried this but i do know that you can go into the setup menu and correct the direction of the icon. You can rotate it till it matches you true direction...

Shawn S

I’m pretty sure the NAV Gyro is inside the case with the DVD drive.

The receiving antenna is nearby that unit under the rear shelf.
If you crane your neck inside the trunk you can probably see it.

Shawn S

MikeS 18

1) Marc, :P
2) I have had this problem with the car appearing about 30-50 yards to the right of where I was at. This is bad when you are trying to navigate downtown Boston and it is recalculating to realize you are on the road it wants you to be on already.
3) I do not have a solution and this only seems to happen when I am in a crowded area - I guess it can't tell exactly where I am. I think we need to RTFM and see if there is a way to recalibrate our location or something. Maybe I need to degauss the car. !:P

soopa

there is a way to recalibrate your location in your setup menu.

useful in crowded areas.

dereklanham

- Yes, I have used the setup menu to adjust the direction. The problem is that this only lasts untill you shut the car down. And, since the amount that it is off varies, I don't really think this is a permanent solution anyway.

- I have also had the problem that you mention about being downtown near tall buildings. But I believe this is more of an interference issue with the GPS signal from the tall buildings, because as soon as I get into a more open area, it starts tracking position better.

The way I understand the Navi to work, is that it uses the Gyro for compass direction. Uses the speedometer to determine movement, and then uses GPS to correct positioning every few seconds.

Thanks so far.....

Shawn S

Also, I don’t think they should have to touch the display in the dash.
That’s just an output device and it shouldn’t have anything to do with your problem.

Shawn S

HellaWhat

Argh, this happened to me last weke and the NAVI has been weird since. I was washing the car and noticed the car was pointing the wrong way.. ARGH.... I recalibrated and it's still weird. Ima gonna disconnect the battery and let the damned thing re-align itself.

BarryH

Interesting. Never heard of a Navi problem like this before. Not to state the obvious, but could you have accidentally set the Navi for "true North" in which case the map stays stationary and the Acura icon rotates? Jens, I'd be interested in hearing your perspective on this.

Achance

I thought the antenna was that little black box, on the upper part of the inside rear window, but never really looked. It might just be the heater for the defroster or something though.

dereklanham

Tell us what happens if you dis-connect the battery. I don't think that is going to do it, as it re-set the direction correctly occasionally anyway.

dereklanham

I am aware of the difference between the map rotating and the icon rotating. This is not the problem.

Your comment about "true North" does bring something to mind. There is a difference between magnetic north and true north, and it can be several degrees off. I thought about the possibility that maybe the nav system wasn't taking this into account, but I quickly dismissed this theory as everyone would have the same problem. Although it would be worse in the west coast than the east coast (as the difference between true north and magnitic north are greater as you move from east to west in the US, although someone might correct me on this).

Anyway, just another thought... Thanks again for the help so far.

gmilian

i was cleaning the screen and all of a sudden the whole thing flipped. i didn't know what happened. i noticed the compass was a different icon and pushed it then it went back to normal.

bioyuki

Its under warranty, take it to the dealer .

dereklanham

Did that... I realize my orginal post was long and you might have missed that. Again, the problem is that they need to see it malfunction before they will do anything. AND, I want to make sure I know what they should do, because I don't necessarily trust them to do the right thing to fix it. Particularly when they mentioned replacing the screen. - dl

Eggplant-EX

That triangle is pointing North. It does not represent the direction of the car. If it did, it would always be pointing straight..

So, if you are driving South, that arrow/triangle will be pointing to the back.

HellaWhat

Has anyone had their NAVI reboot on them while driving? This happened twice when was in some hilly area, the NAVI flipped and rebooted itself.

dereklanham

Honestly, I know the difference between north and south, and I know what direction the different triangles point....

First - There are 2 Modes of display. One where the your car shows different direction on the map. And another where the map moves and your car always points up on the screen. (simply press the North indicator in the upper right of the screen to toggle views)

Second - I know when the triangle indicating my car shows that my car is not at the same angle I am traveling, because it will look tilted to an angle compared to the road I am traveling on.

Third - I also know that it consistently says I am exiting off the freeway even though I am still on the freeway.

So, Eggplant, either I did not understand what you were trying to tell me, or you were probably not aware of the multiple viewing modes of the Navi.

NOVAwhiteTypeS

I know this is so obvious but make sure the arrow's aren't pointing north.

blxmjx

mmmmm, gyro's taste good. Especially with that cucumber sauce they use, really good shit.

kensteele

Perhaps I can chime in but it probably won't help much.

This is GPS navigation not a compass. So magnetic north has no affect on it whatsoever. You GPS expert can correct me if I am wrong but those grids and declinations have nothing to do with Navi as it would with a compass and needle.

What you are experiencing I believe happens to all GPS devices in the big city. Being out in the open in Kansas I rarely see it. But when you get around tall buildings, you'll see those errors more pronounced. That combined with the fact that the area is congested with roads and streets and ramps, etc. you got three things working against you. 1) Navi is always trying to adjust your position to make sure it is accurate. 2) GPS is a bit inaccurate and you can tell this when it gets down to the finer details of the roadway and 3) Sometimes that maps are just plain wrong. Your GPS location is good and accurate but the map shows the road over here when it is really over there. There are two or three known spots here in Kansas like that, my GPS is almost always dead on the road but all of a sudden, the road is going one way and I am driving thru the middle of a cow pasture. Not a new road but the same road is just "drawn" incorrectly on the map.

Having used the Navi successfully and accurately day after day, I can say that I suddenly realized the acute problems of the "big" city that one week I drove all over NYC.

Eggplant-EX

Hm... I apologise if I misunderstand. Anyhow, it seems like yours is not working correctly then, if it keeps wanting you to get off the freeway.

Knock on wood, I have not experienced anything too strange. Some times, my Nav does not do the bar count down from 1000 feet and seems to be locked..

rondog

iTrader: (1)

this is a perfect example on why I didn't do the dvd conversion. My Nav used to point to the nose of the car, now it changed and sometimes I have to flip my train of thought to figure out what direction to go, I'll go to the dealer and keep you guys posted. I still love my Nav..

dereklanham

Yes, You are correct and got side tracked in an earlier post. But there my understanding is that there are 3 main sensors that our Navigation system uses. 1) GPS that shows latitude/longitutude 2) Gyro sensor that senses directional change, and 3) speedometer, that determines vector movement. (I understand there is also a yaw sensor, but I am not sure how or if this comes into play)

What is happening that I don't think should happen is the Navigation system is thinking that my vehicle is turning to the right (anywhere from 5 degrees to 180 degrees) before it does something to make the correction.

I observe the Navigation system slowly getting my heading incorrect untill after a few minutes it seems to correct. There appears to be some logic in the software that does this under a few circumstances... For example, If you are doing 60mph and the GPS shows you moving down the freeway, then correct the heading to be parallel with movement.

Anyway, you guys have been a big help. I still believe my the gyro is in the process of going bad (as the problem seems to get worse with time). But at least you guys have presented all the things I had thought of and some details I didn't.

dereklanham

This is something that I pointed out earlier, but I will give more detail, and you probably already know this.....

If you tap on the compass in the upper right of the screen (it has a 'N' and an arrow in a circle), then that will change your perspective in the closest 3 zooms. You will toggle between the map always having north point up. And the car always pointing up on the map.

When I got my car the default was the map pointing north, I changed this and found that looking at the map and figuring out if I need to turn left or right was easier. ( I made a wrong turn or two before figuring this out)

The down side is that in this mode, it seems that the Navi takes a little longer on screen draws.

kensteele

I wouldn't rule out the inaccuracy of GPS as part of the problem either. Before getting Navi, I use to run a handheld Garmin GPS III+ (with maps) and my "arrow" would point in the wrong direction lots of times, especially when stopped or moving slowly. It seems to happen less often after SA was turned off.

If you are moving forward let's say due North (0 degrees) and the next known point 100 yards ahead is still 0 degrees but Navi is inaccurate and thinks you are now 90 yards ahead and 2 degrees, plus there is an exit ramp, we'll you just exited the freeway. Now that you are locked onto the exit ramp road, you'll probably stay there until you autocorrect.

dereklanham

Yeah, that makes sense. Especially because some days it works perfectly. And your comment about the slow movement also makes sense because that is when it has been off the most. But it is still troubling when it is off 45 degrees or more as it has been a few times. I should add, that I was going straight and it thought I turned 45 degrees instead of turning 45 degrees and it thought I went straight.

Well, it is not like I am going to do anything about it till it show the problem enough that I can show the dealership.

Scorpius

Maybe the nav is trying to tell you, your life is going in the wrong direction?

kensteele

My God, I don't know how anyone can drive and follow with North always up. Unless you've done this forever and are quite use to it, moving as fast as you do sometimes, you're bound to make a wrong turn.

I grew up with the map and compass and I always without fail turned and rotated the paper map according to the direction that I was going regardless if it were a road map, topographic map, or a hand drawn map (like when hiking). North always up is completely worthless [to me] and since most computer programs such as Delorme's Street Atlas don't accomodate this, I hate it. Even the handheld GPS devices you have a choice. Just an FYI.

So when we finally get GPS maps in the cellular phone, you can be sure it will have this feature built-in (umm..that's is if you go with the Sprint PCS phones).

Scorpius

What about a compass? Does the nav have a built in compass? Could it be confused by powerlines or cellular phones? My dad's old Lincoln Mark VIII has a compass on it, it read North, South... etc... When I had the cell phone on it would indicate a different direction for a few secs.

EricL

Some Inputs from the front of the car: Steering wheel angle and wheel speed sensors.

1. Those position and angle corrections get stuck in the computer when GPS satellites are lost. I had to dump the 12volts for 30 minutes to kill a few adjustments I made that made other intersections in the area worse.

2. The wheel speed sensors compare their speed against the GPS position info and the two are constantly being compared when the signal is good. The steering wheel angle is used for direction too. (I had the dealer turn the steering wheel and move the wheels while the car was up on the lift and we had a satellite "blackout" from sunspots and the direction (icon angle and vehicle position were way off for more than 10-minutes); I was in the process of calling to re-schedule an appointment for a new Navi (they had checked the diags [as did I]) courtesy of the Helms diags tests and the system looked OK (with the exception of satellite coverage). The car jumped back to the correct position after 20-minutes and has worked well (with normal quirks since).

I was told by a 3rd level Engineer at Acura to never use that screen to adjust the position. I asked why they would make it available to a user, but couldn't get a "good" answer -- they just said to kill the battery for 30+ minutes and dump the "offset" data I put in there (another story that would take too long...)

(Use your own judgment as to the above info...)

There are some rather nasty issues related to mountains/ buildings and where the car is in relation to them and the acquired satellites; there are certain occasions where the satellites will be in orbital positions that make for very bad GPS location difficult!

I have noticed that my GPS does not like sitting outdoors in high temps with a bright sky (can you say hot trunk temps)...

dereklanham

I think I am going to take your advice and unhook the battery for 30 minutes to get everything reset....

Lets see what happens.

dl

MikeyB_TLS

I didn't have time to read the whole thing, it didn't look as if any answers were given yet.

I had the wierdest problem last night, that the map was in a loop, continually circling 360 degrees in the clockwise direction, along with putting me on completely different streets, and being 50 yds off!!!!! I have never seen so many errors at once.

when I stopped, the rotating stopped, I used the joystick (???) to move it around and the map/guide button to re-align itself. After F-ing with it for 10 mins I gave up, and drove on, eventually it rights itself. I will still try to get the dealer to give me the updated version of the MAP!!!!!

dereklanham

Good luck on them Giving it to you... You will probably need to purchase it for $200. I have version 2.04, and I believe that 2.05 is out. I don't plan on buying a new version till at least the fall or so, I figure annually is good enough.

One of the things you should note when you are having problems is the GPS signal strength. In the upper left corner there is a little icon that I guess is supposed to look like a satalite above the earth... If the lines in the sat are green, then you have 4 or more satalites (I belive we have an 8 channel GPS so 8 sats would be the max). If it is yellow, then you have 3 satalites, and if the icon is not there you have 1 or 2 satalites. You need 3 satalites for latitude and logitude calculation, and you need the 4th for altitude. But more is better and will be more accurate.

As for your problem, I don't think I would worry about it unless it happens again. I have found that the system does crazy things from time to time if the satalite signal is lost, and a number of things can cause that to happen.

MikeyB_TLS

Yeah, I know they are pretty stingy with that sort of thing!!! I really f-ed my GPS one day when I swerved real hard and a suitcase smacked that bitch up.. I took it in for service and was like "hey guys what's wrong with my GPS??" appartently in was scratched and thhey hooked me up w/ a new one!!! However it wasn't in time for the newest version!!! oh well.