importtuner

As much as I love Honda, this love cannot not stop the downhill path Honda is going to. I'm tired of everyone bashing on Honda, not only from the Honda crowd, but also from other manufacturers such as Toyota. Honda has been known to make reliable and economical cars, but they don't realize how well its Acura line-up would be doing if they would just listen. I think the Honda line-up should remain where it is right now, but the Acura line up should completely change. The cars in the Acura line-up include the RSX, TSX, CL/TL, RL, MDX, and NSX.

Pluses:
High powered N/A Engines; except base models and RL
Reliability
Performance
Fuel Economy
Awesome Manual Transmissions for those that are available

Minuses:
FWD, except for NSX
Automatic Transmissions
Abundant use of plastics
Cheap interior; except for flagships

Major Competitors:
RSX: WRX, Neon SRT
CL/TL: IS300, G35, 350Z, 3-series, C-class
RL: GS300, E320, 530i,
NSX: Porsche 996, Corvette

Now Honda has to change a lot of things and the biggest ones are its FWD layout and power. Honda engines are works of art, but alot of people have performance in mind and it is performance that sells. Look at Subaru for example. No one ever heard of the Impreza line-up up until the WRX came out and the reason why that car sold was not because of its awd, but because of the turbo motor. Subarus have always been AWD; with that it didn't even sell as much. Look at all the Cl and Tl guys who jumped the boat for a G35 and 350Z and the biggest reason was that it was high-powered and RWD. The RL; wow I feel sorry for this car. This car just looks like it has a V8 in it, but no it has LESS horsepower than a freakin CL/TL-S. This car should have been a class winner, but because its underpowered and is FWD; its struggling for sales. Then there's the NSX; what a beautiful car, but how many have been sold this year?? Probably less than 50. Why?? You guessed it; its underpowered. A freakin Porsche Carrera costs less than an NSX and European cars are known to be overpriced. Honda has to stop concentrating on extracting the most power out of its 4 cylinders and start experimenting with its 6 cylinders; if not 8 and start using RWD/AWD technology. I do, however, like the fact that Honda is sticking with its N/A philosophy. There's so much more I have to add, but it will be done later.

Zapata

importtuner,
sure....that being said, honda/acura are setting records for sales. New models have sold very well. Accord is a hit, civic selling well, Pilot is selling well, TSX is selling well, MDX and TLs are selling well.

Remember there is some new and distinctly YOUNGER blood at the top of Honda. Hopefully, this younger blood will help.

fuzzy02CLS

iTrader: (2)

I have no complaints about Honda/Acura!

ferizzo

I agree with importtuner but Zapata is right and its the bottom line thats important. Honda/Acura's FWD sells.

I agree though that they need sportier cars in their lineup. Heck, make the TL a FWD and the TL-S an AWD monster. Drop a 3.0 or 3.2 liter V6 in the TSX. I know its not necessarily cost effective but then again they already have RWD and AWD platforms.

NSX-Tuner

Compared to other manufacturers, the only complaints I have against Acura are:

1) RWD is only available on the NSX... and there are no AWD non-SUV models.

2) Although the interior is pretty good, too many squeaks and rattles and too much plastic.

I'm looking forward to see future Acura offerings. Hopefully, we won't be disappointed.

Slimey

Every car manufacturer has their own niche.

Honda/Acura has their niche just like Lotus has another niche. You don't see people complaining that Lotus really hasn't done a good job on the family wagon, or really hasn't penetrated the market well.

Call me master of the obvious, but Honda does a good job at what they do -- they make Hondas (& Acuras). If you don't like it, look somewhere else. They've managed to survive several decades with the market that they helped to define. They will never please everyone -- and I sincerely doubt that's their goal. There will always be comptetion in their market -- that's what keeps it going.

When I look at the bigger picture, I think they're doing just fine. I don't get why people complain - if you see something better just buy it. It's just a car afterall.

mantis23

for various reasons, not everyone wants a RWD, and H/A knows that.

Zapata

well said..........

123456SPEED

I've been very satsified as a Honda/Acura driver for 12 years. The Prelude and the Legend Coupes after that were cars that fit 95% of what I want in a car. The 6speed CLS is about the same. and I'm pretty picky.
Acura made some big mistakes and finally I think they are learning from them. Dropping the Legend, the car that put Acura on the map and was a huge success was a mistake that has taken most of the last 10 years to recover from, esp since they offered nothing as good as it. To bring out the first CL and call it a Legend replacement alienated many coupe buyers who never came back.
I never looked at Acura as seeing what the competition is doing and trying to win over customers by matching it. I looked at them to innovate, set their own goals and not follow the crowd.
So I am not so apt to quickly buy an Infiniti or a Nissan. I have been very loyal to Acura and expect them to always offer a unique product. The front wheel drive phiosophy will be their biggest challenge. They do not always hit the sweet spot but I like what they offer better than any other Japanese brand.

Loseit

iTrader: (1)

i know pleny of people won't buy RWD cars. Honda fullfills their niche, like Slimey said. You want something else...go look at a manufacturer who sells that.

Sarlacc

You know people keep coming on here and bitching Honda/Acura should do this and they should do that blah blah blah.

Guess what, Honda/Acura's business model doesnt follo what youre thinking or wanting so go buy someone else's car. Honda is doing just fine making money at what it they make. A good affordable quality car for the masses.

Slimey put it best about the niche.

We all have our own ideas and things we would like to see different. But if you dont like they way Honda is running business then look at someone else, or better yet go start youre own car company and make what you think will sell, and see if you succeed.

mrdeeno

and the things that honda knows it lacks (interior materials, fwd, etc.) will probably be addressed sooner or later. It's already started with the TSX interior, and then rumors of awd making it's way into the sedans.

and the nsx is holding it's own considering how old it is. The RL, the next one better kick ass.

my next purchase probably will not be an acura though, not because they offer substandard cars or anything, but rather because i'm looking at some "niches" they are not in yet and may not be for awhlie (my sites are set on an sc430 in a couple years or new 5-series)

importtuner

To tell you the truth, I can't see myself in any other Japanese car than Honda. I'm just telling you what I think of the Acura line-up. Honda in general is doing fine with the Civic, Accord, etc., but the Acura line-up needs to be the way it used to be back in the day. Look at what example the Legend put out!! They should continue to dominate the way they used to. I don't think that the Acura line-up wasn't doing to well until the TSX. Look at the CL, NSX, RL. I'm sure they learned their lesson by now.
-Justin

AcuraFan

The Legend was a ground breaking car...something the RL isn't. But before you pass too much judgement on the RL, wait to see what the upcoming redesign has in store. The TL Type S was a groundbreaking car in it's own right. For years, there wasn't another $30K lux car with that kind of hp. Most of its competitors are just starting to catch up now. The new TL will be rockin' as well.

Why do you keep hating on the NSX? It's a sweet car. They don't sell many because that's not the point. It's a handmade supercar...they only make a couple hundred a year. If I had $90K to spend, it'd be leaning toward an NSX.

F23A4

....which is why Honda is discontinuing the Acura CL!

gavriil

Soon AWD will be available to all Acura and later, even Honda cars. So dont worry about the FWD issue.

lou_RENAMED

Im sorry but no comment on the rest but talking about the NSX is a that is a handmade car not meant to be sold the masses....look at is RWD rear engine layout which not too many cars have except for the porsche but the NSX is still an awesome car no ifs or buts about it...even with its power now its still classified as a supercar in its own right

....the nsx does everything great and yes it does need more power but it still will rock almost anything driving on the streets now

cusdaddy

Lou: I have to disagree. I like the NSX and I think it has aged very well, but I think it's getting outdated and overpriced. For that $$, you can get a Viper, 911, Z06, M3/M5, E55, heck, even a Cobra, STi and Evo which would beat it in the 1/4. It's a hot car, but compared to the performance offeredby many of today's cars, it's not great anymore. I remember back at E-town the NSX guy was running low 9's to high 8's in the 1/8th. That's 13.5-14.2 in the 1/4

lou_RENAMED

yea I remember that guy but I doubt he had the newer one...he had like a 96'

let me get the magazine it in my car they compared the new 911 the corvette Z06 and the NSX and it did great against them although it was under powered...Ill post the results

cusdaddy

I'm sure it did great as it handles like a dream, but for the same $$, you can buy a Z06 and get a Sti/Evo to mod... Again, I like the NSX, I just think that for the $$ they are charging, it needs more power

lou_RENAMED

cusdaddy the NSX is exotic...the eVo or sti worked to the balls with every possible mod available will never be in the same class as the Nsx ...the look the design the reliability...ask anybody who ever owned one no matter how old it still performs awesome like day one...just remember the car is handmade by some overpaid Japanese dude

but I agree if I had the $95K to drop on a car the NSx would not be on the top of my list

but if you want to know the EVO beat out some tough competition including a $250K Ferrarri in the recent super car competition

so the evo is that Good

importtuner

I am in no way hating on the NSX. I love the car, but it NEEDS to be updated. Yes its a hand built car, and yes its not mass produced (which is a good thing); but you got to agree with me that it does need a power upgrade. Performance is not all about the quarter mile; yes, but horsepower has a HUGE impact on what consumers want. As an exotic, the NSX is cheap, but for the performance it offers, its inferior for the price. Although the Lancer or the Vette does not have the passion that goes into its production; its still romping on the NSX. Why do people buy exotics in the first place?? The answer solely lies in the fact that its unique and performs well above your average car. Let's talk about the Ferrari 360 Modena for example. There's no car like it except for other Ferraris and the new upcoming Porsche 911 GT3. It comes with a 3.5 liter V8 with 400 hp; the sound, and technological marvel. Ferrari today wouldn't be where it is now without the NSX, which was released in '91 for crying out loud. Its' had 270/290 hp for several years. The only update on that engine was in '96 when it came in the 3.2, more power, a 6-speed, and targa top. Up until then it remains the same. Now Ferrari, they've been through the 328.355, and now the 360; each generation improved upon the next. The NSX has not changed much since then; except for a few asthetic changes. As said before, Honda has done so much to the car and it was a marvel when it came out, but as each year passes by there are competitors that will try to better it and it has. Although a lot of testers have praised the NSX for everything, they did have their drawbacks and that was the performance per dollar ratio. For the money; you don't get much in the engine department. The 350Z for crying out loud has close to 290 hp and it costs more than half as much. Yes Honda makes great vehicles, but there needs to be some changes to its luxury/sport segment. A lot of its luxury cars needs more power if it still wants to compete. Common what is the whole Acura lineup about; its just like Infiniti with Nissan and Lexus with Toyota. Its SUPPOSED to be a step up from its Honda lineup in every way. When you drive a Lexus, there`s nothing Toyota about it except for the reliability; its a completely different car. When I drive and Acura, I see so many similarities with its Honda counterparts; especially the interior except for the RL and NSX. Acura stands for luxury and it should show!! Although alot of you guys are not willing to admit; you're gonna have to face the facts and the truth and the truth is that Acura needs to step up period.
-Justin

heyitsme

I agree honda has lost the excitement that it was starting to build in previous years. like with the previous crx, si, prelude, itr, legend. they went to a lot of trouble eliminating all of them and to say they learned from canceling the legend, i doubt it or they wouldn't have canceled the integra name either.

i don't care if honda is breaking records in every sales category possible, their newer cars aren't exciting. some people may try to get worked up over 200hp 4-cylinders etc. or 90k 290hp v6's etc but 'the thrill is gone', at least at this point imo.

fusionnv

I personally don't have to many problems with honda/acuras. I think the only thing is that I have no car to go to next after my CL decides to call it quits or time for a new car. I find the TSX is kinda overpriced. I don't feel like I am getting my money worth because I can probably squeeze for other luxury cars with more stuff for around the same price. It new line of a car, so have to see where it go next.

AcuraFan

Well, after the CL, you could move up to the upcoming RL w/ IMA.

What luxury cars can you buy with more stuff for around the same price as a TSX?

fusionnv

Yeah, a cheap BMW is about the same price as TSX. There are a few others, I not going to incourage people to leave or anybody that has a TSX feel bad etc. RL, i might be able to get one if things keep going well for me in a couple years, or at least in that price range.

soopa

RWD does not sell well in my area compared to H/A FWD cars...


BUT... AWD sells like hotcakes... with the practical H/A crowd AND the performance crowd.


H/A has the technology available to them and already in use by them in other vehicles and in their home market to make every car they have AWD... but for some reason they wont do it?!

stupid.

AcuraFan

If memory serves, MSRP on a loaded TSX (minus Nav) is about $27K. A bare bones 325 starts at $28.5K...you add the features standard on the TSX and you're looking at over $30K.

AcuraFan

Why don't they? Cost. I have a feeling if they could make more money selling AWD cars, they would. Right now I don't think it's cost effective for Acura to change their platforms.

Bobbydoedoe

Correction. NSX is a handbulit car using the mid-engine and rwd layout

Black CL-S 4-Life

I agree Honda has lost alot of excitement, especially in the looks department. Honda needs to fire their designers the new Hondas have bland exteriors. Another thing is Honda for whatever reason doesn't make some of its best cars available in the US.:shakehd: Honda needs AWD having an almost all FWD lineup just doesn't cut it anymore. And last Honda needs a offical aftermarket tuner, like TRD and STI.

F23A4

I totally agree; I don't think Subaru is much of a sales threat to Honda, Toyota or Nissan and ALL of their cars come AWD. It would probably make more sense for Honda to go RWD than AWD, particularly with the V6 models.

AcuraFan

Well, switching to rwd on the V6 models would make them more exciting for the few who actually drive like it matters. But I think it would be cheaper for Honda to adapt their cars for the VTM-4 AWD system (which I think is front biased) than it would be to redesign all their cars to a RWD drivetrain.