CG2PROJECT

Meh..

Honestly, just go with the Blue, since that's where people have had the most success with.. FIC and Ultimate seem like failures to me, judging from the crap it's been throwing at you recently.

Sideshow

Stay strong Jim!
You just got a little taste of the "pioneering blues."
Walking down that path and doing something that has never been done before...
Believe me there is an entire community of people out here hoping that this "little project" of yours turns out for the very best--good for you and good for all of us!
Just my

Accord_V6_400m

iTrader: (1)

Siggy had a similar problem with timing on his ride when the EMB wouldn't hold the MAP volt. properly and it pulled timing like crazy in the low and mid range but as soon as VTEC would kick in, it would right itself and the power would kick in like crazy.

Sean (04accordcpe) had his VTEC not working for the longest time, wasn't until someone rear ended him a little and for some reason it started working again.

Are you picking up any pinging or knocking? Check out the knock sensors and see if they are picking anything up possibly some other sounds that are triggering it, perhaps?

phee

iTrader: (5)

if its pulling so much timing have you tried adding more fuel? could your FPR be the issue?

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

My money is on the FIC.

I hope you can get this up an running soon. I really want to get some more power under my hood.

jproy

We are running 11.3-11.8 across the board. We have not verified AT THE ECU what the MAP voltage the FIC is putting out manually. We have only checked at the output indicator box on the FIC software at this point but we will. We are watching the overall ignition advance wit the OBDII tool and waiting on a more advanced unit to arrive.

Scalbert,
Would you mind sending me your EMBlue maps from your install and also sending me some kind of schematic from you harness? I have the CLS shop manual with the ECU pin outs and am no stranger to electrical engineering. I need to make the harness today for the EMBlue if the FIC ends up being a BUST. I need to know how those of you who used the EMBlue successfully, had it wired. Boomslang can’t help me here because they don’t keep good records and no one knows much of what was done in the past.



Does anyone know how much timing is pulled by the ECU, if any, with the stock Comptech kit? I never checked mine when I had it on. I don’t think the ECU pulls any timing.

We know for sure that the problem is between the FIC and the ECU. That is a given. The mechanical side of things is rock solid and the problem is only with the supercharger in place. Without the blower we make the same power “all motor” over and over again that I was making one year ago when I yanked the blower off while still on the dyno. When we started making progress with the timing yesterday we figured out that there was a problem with the FIC sending the correct MAP sensor readings to the ECU. Those changes we made at the instruction of AEM Tech make no sense and fundamentally seem wrong. We had to change the output signal to MAF (which we all know the car does not have) from MAP and that bought us about 2-3 degrees of timing which got us to 301WHP last night.

I think today I am going to try installing the Comptech ESM just like if the car were using the stock kit and only run the MAP sensor signal from the MAP sensor through the ESM then to the ECU but "Y" off of the MAP sensor before the ESM to the FIC so the ECU sees the same things it saw from the MAP with the old kit and the FIC sees what is really going on with the MAP but will not have an output MAP signal from the FIC which is fine. Does anyone who has the knowledge to say otherwise have a problem with that?

I am also going to try to install the EMBlue and see what happens.

If this doesn’t work out, I am willing to drive just about anywhere and pay someone who may be able to figure out what is going on or just wants to help. The most frustrating part is that this has been made to work before, The only thing I have changed is the type of blower and the piggyback. We know a handful of people have done injectors, EMBlue, and up to 9psi and it worked, so we know it can be done. That’s the only thing stopping me from calling it a day.

mrsteve

iTrader: (1)

Accord_V6_400m

iTrader: (1)

I know! Funny stuff

Refering back to SIRSIG's earlier problems with the MAP voltage clamp on the EMB it seems more and more likely to be the FIC issue, just more serious then with the EMB since that was a weird one time problem.

By all means check the acual output values for the FIC and see how it might be changing throughout the powerband, since you mentioned it going flat on you done going through your mid range.

jproy

I’m at the shop now. About to get on the dyno. I have removed the factory MAP signal from the FIC and we are now running it directly through the Comptech ESM then to the Factory ECU. We are going to use the built in MAP sensor on the FIC from the boost gauge vacuum line so it can still know what is going on with the Manifold Absolute Pressure on its own but without interfering with the signal from the stock MAP sensor to the Stock ECU since we all know the car works just fine with the Comptech ESM and doesn’t pull a hair of timing. Let’s hope for the best here. The extra 30-50Hp I should be seeing at 6-7psi of boost could easily be locked up in that 15-25 degrees of timing the ECU is still pulling out from under us.

The FIC will still be used to pull up to 3-4 degrees of timing if this works and it will also be used to adjust the duration for the larger injectors. UPS just showed up with a $9000 SnapOn OBD ScanTool so we should have a much better handle on things today. Scalbert, we will make sure and check the MAP values the ECU is getting and all others. We will be able to see all perameters in realtime.

We now have a EMBlue in the shop and I have a very good known map for it for this car from a board member who is a friend of mine. The map, however, is for a CLS 6MT running 6psi with stock injectors and the Comptech FPR.

If this doesn’t work I will put the stock injectors back in and reinstall the Comptech FPR and see what happens there.


Any suggestions are welcome??????????????? Thanks for all the help guys!

scalbert

I would have to agree with what some have mentioned, soemthing is happening with the MAP signal. I would use a scope to see what it is fully doing as an RMS meter may mis some occurances.

FYI, the below link has some of what you were looking for.

http://www.hopesystemsinc.com/dowloads/

Yes, Downloads is spelled incorrectly.

bigguyonbike

can you post the dyno chart. i had the same issue when i was SC/IC. the problem was caused by me forgetting to clamp down the MAP voltage. i think your issue is with the AEM FIC. you should try e-manage blue, i'm sure that will solve your problem.

Allout

Jim,

The voltage clamp on my MAP is set to 2.70 throughout the RPM range. I noticed that you said you had yours set to 2.93. Have you played with adjusting the clamp voltage?

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

Any luck yesturday?

SleekAV6

I agree with this. I believe the voltage on a stock MAP at 0psi is 2.92, so if yours is set to 2.93, the ECU is probably pulling timing because it's seeing boost. A good way to test this is to clamp your MAP voltage to 2.90 or even 2.80 and see if you make anymore power.

FYI, mine is clamped to 2.90 running the Emanage Blue.

type_speed

did the EMBlue work for the car? don't let up Jim, you're almost there. should of stopped by Austin on your way or way down from Dallas.

Chris

bigguyonbike

2.93 -> 6 speed
2.80 -> auto

this is from comptech instructions

CG2PROJECT

Well regardless, it wouldn't hurt to try both, and see where it takes us. I think some of the guys that have engine swaps are using 2.80.

davepaul033

iTrader: (1)

What is the part number for the greddy e manage blue? Does the auto and 6speed use the same one?

scalbert

Part number unknown but yes, the AT and MT use the same unit.

davepaul033

iTrader: (1)

Ok also if you look on greddy's website, there are some extra options to this piggyback. What options would be needed for the CL, or someone running meth kit and high boost? http://www.greddy.com/products/displ...SubCategory=48

Accord_V6_400m

iTrader: (1)

2.93V is good just make sure its actually doing it and tune the fuel after that.

jproy

Right now the car is making 300WHP and 275WTQ. The MAP sensor, boost gauge, and FIC MAP sensor all say the car is making no more than 6psi of boost so I screwed up on the gearing of the blower. I will fix that when I get back home to Louisiana. I really need to talk with one of you guys who went big with the supercharger over the phone.

I will get the blower geared right for 10psi and try to make some progress with the timing issue. We ended up not having any sucess running the MAP singnal through the FIC so I just reinstalled the Comptech ESM and that really smoothed out the power delivery. We certainly missed something there with the MAP and the FIC. I need some help in person from someone who has had sucess with this ECU.

The dynamic compression test I did today yielded 240psi-250psi on all pistons so we know for sure the motor is rock solid. IAT never exceeded 180 degrees.

CG2PROJECT

Wahh, so is this with the fabbed intercooler, that we discussed on the phone?

jproy

What does Wahh mean?


NO, not at all what we discussed.

This setup is equivilent to the comptech kit with the high boost pulley only, 5-6psi. As soon as I get the car up to 9-10psi by changing the pulley ratios we should really start to see the benifits of the MP90.

CG2PROJECT

Well..

LIPPSTUH

iTrader: (2)

+1 for moar info..... we should have a conference about this at a meet rofl jk.

jproy

jproy

http://img531.imageshack.us/my.php?i...ov04586nu4.flv

LIPPSTUH

iTrader: (2)

just a pic, no description... tease tease tease.

gj on everything, more info whenever


video sounds sick... whine bby whine!

m733l

iTrader: (1)

damn nice job on everything. can't wait to see the final numbers. makes me want FI even moar now.

bigguyonbike

that graph looks good. just more boost and tuning and your there. i'm gonna guess around 330 to 340whp at 10psi.

CG2PROJECT

No.. you gotta remember, he's still having problems with the FIC. So that means, there's ALOT of untapped power from just 5-6 psi.

scalbert

There is definitely timing being pulled. Torque should be flatter up top. Is the IMRC funtioning, have you tried disconnecting it? Just FYI, below is some information on the E-Manage Blue hookup.

http://www.flwse.com/images/steve/ComptechSC/eManage/

And for reference, the below is with the E-Manage Blue and HBP and also the IC plot. I'll try calling you back later today.

Red = HBP and E-Manage
Green = Custom Pulley, E-Manage and my IC
Blue = Custom Pulley, E-Manage and my IC and Exhaust Cutout Open



One other thought, richen it up a bit and lower the MAP clamp more. I beleive I ran it at 2.8 VDC and even tried as low as 2.7 VDC.

CG2PROJECT

Scalbert, where did you place your exhaust cut out? Was it mounted on the down pipe or after the cat? Did you even have a cat? lol

scalbert

Before the cat, in the Comptech collector:

http://www.flwse.com/images/steve/ComptechSC/Exhaust/

CG2PROJECT

bump

jproy

We are making progress fellas. I am about to make some changes and see what happens. I have the EMBlue but we never installed it. The MAP voltage issue is well under control and I will be working on finding out if the ECM is pulling timing from knock or because the ECM thinks there is knock. Could also be the incredibly horrible dyno conditions...100+ degrees, 42% humidity, 40in/hg....Not exactly ideal.

Im also thinking about how much the ECM will pull timing when it sees IAT rise to 170+ under boost.

jproy

After talking to Scalbert, I am going to move forward with the building of the Intercooler/aftercooler (whatever you want to call it) and then continue with the development of the new blower.

mrsteve

iTrader: (1)

You might be able to pick one up in the Black Market. I seem to remember them being sold from time to time as people sell their cars. I don't even know who's running the kits anymore. Don't know who has mine, it switched hands a few times before I sold my car.

Rajca

iTrader: (8)

i saw one in teh black market for $100obo a few days ago.