Mazda admits power deficiency in the RX-8
08-26-2003, 07:12 AM
#1
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Mazda admits power deficiency in the RX-8
http://www.rx8forum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9347
RX-8 6MT is re-rated at 238HP by Mazda.
RX-8 4AT is re-rated at 197HP by Mazda.
Anyone who has bought the car (up to August 26th, or waiting on delivery) is offered the following:
1. Repurchase of vehicle - all costs included
2. $500 debit card and free maintenance for the warranty period (4 years and 50k miles).
08-26-2003, 07:57 AM
#5
Houses Won't Depreciate?
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...the same deal that they offered after the 2001 Miata was found to be down on power too.
what is Mazda thinking? They can fool customers and take a chance?
what is Mazda thinking? They can fool customers and take a chance?
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08-26-2003, 08:51 AM
#11
The sizzle in the Steak
That sucks...I hope they don't do that to the RX-7
08-26-2003, 08:57 AM
#13
Cost Drivers!!!!
Originally posted by Scrib
I don't know actually... Let me find out. It probably is... Unless the auto tranny provides less than 10% loss to the wheels.
I don't know actually... Let me find out. It probably is... Unless the auto tranny provides less than 10% loss to the wheels.
that's the auto tranny.....
08-26-2003, 09:43 AM
#16
Team Owner
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Look at the “bright” side for the consumer.
After the SHIT hits the fan there will be plenty of these cars available WELL below cost in the foreseeable future.
They’re not just gonna take those traded cars to the crusher, they’re gonna discount them heavily and put them back on the used market.
It’s still a hot car and I’m sure those missing HP can be made up with minimal modifications.
Shawn S
After the SHIT hits the fan there will be plenty of these cars available WELL below cost in the foreseeable future.
They’re not just gonna take those traded cars to the crusher, they’re gonna discount them heavily and put them back on the used market.
It’s still a hot car and I’m sure those missing HP can be made up with minimal modifications.
Shawn S
08-26-2003, 10:16 AM
#18
Enjoy the Ride
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This is from a friend who owned a 3rd gen rx-7 :
first, a twin turbo kit isn't available because of the placement of the exhaust manifold. Second, they can thank a combination of emissions standards and shitty American gas for the loss of power. Third, no matter what power it shows the fact is that it can out corner an RX-7 3rd gen which pretty much means it's one of the best turning cars ever to come out of Japan.
first, a twin turbo kit isn't available because of the placement of the exhaust manifold. Second, they can thank a combination of emissions standards and shitty American gas for the loss of power. Third, no matter what power it shows the fact is that it can out corner an RX-7 3rd gen which pretty much means it's one of the best turning cars ever to come out of Japan.
08-26-2003, 10:54 AM
#20
Happy CL-S Pilot
Originally posted by sonor kid
There's no way that dyno is for a 6 speed.
It must be for the auto tranny.
There's no way that dyno is for a 6 speed.
It must be for the auto tranny.
Mazda claimed 247 HP and 159 lbft of torque. Last week it was lowered to 238 HP instead of 247.
08-26-2003, 10:57 AM
#21
Cost Drivers!!!!
Originally posted by Nashua_Night_Hawk
It is a 6-speed!
Mazda claimed 247 HP and 159 lbft of torque. Last week it was lowered to 238 HP instead of 247.
It is a 6-speed!
Mazda claimed 247 HP and 159 lbft of torque. Last week it was lowered to 238 HP instead of 247.
08-26-2003, 11:12 AM
#23
Safety Car
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the 6-speeds are dynoing ~175-185hp. if the car is still running low 14's it was a big mistake to not just lower the ratings to begin with and advertise about the acceleration numbers instead.
08-26-2003, 11:28 AM
#24
Happy CL-S Pilot
So the dynographs at the beginning of this thread show 170 hp at the wheels.
The closest car mechanically to the RX-8 is the Miata. The current Miatas have the same gearbox as the RX-8. Probably a bit different (gear ratios, etc.) but it is the same unit. RX-8 has driveshaft probably lighter than the metal one in the Miata. The rear ends are probably comparable too.
Miatas dynoing 170 hp at the wheels make about 196 hp at the crank. It is about 26 hp drivetrain loss at these power levels. Miata builders have pulled out engines for engine dyno sessions and compared them to the wheel hp to come to this 26 hp number for this power levels - so is not a guess.
You probably can assume that the two 6sp MT RX8 whose dyno charts were posted in this thread are making 196 hp at the crank neighbourhood which is far away from the 238 hp announced.
I hope with the miles when engines get broken in, they will gain the missing ~ 40hp to 238 hp, but who knows ...
Last edited by jmanolov on 08-26-2003 at 03:07 PM
The closest car mechanically to the RX-8 is the Miata. The current Miatas have the same gearbox as the RX-8. Probably a bit different (gear ratios, etc.) but it is the same unit. RX-8 has driveshaft probably lighter than the metal one in the Miata. The rear ends are probably comparable too.
Miatas dynoing 170 hp at the wheels make about 196 hp at the crank. It is about 26 hp drivetrain loss at these power levels. Miata builders have pulled out engines for engine dyno sessions and compared them to the wheel hp to come to this 26 hp number for this power levels - so is not a guess.
You probably can assume that the two 6sp MT RX8 whose dyno charts were posted in this thread are making 196 hp at the crank neighbourhood which is far away from the 238 hp announced.
I hope with the miles when engines get broken in, they will gain the missing ~ 40hp to 238 hp, but who knows ...
Last edited by jmanolov on 08-26-2003 at 03:07 PM
08-26-2003, 02:38 PM
#26
Suzuka Master
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That dyno is from a 6-speed. Check it out here:
http://www.rx8forum.com/showthread.php?threadid=9553
BTW, the only RX-8's running low 14's are the mag versions. Only 1 RX-8 on the messageboard broke 14's (14.9 to be exact), and the rest are running low to mid 15's. A guy on with a 6-speed on their board lost to a new Solara!! HAHAHA!!!
The worst part is that many are experiencing 13 mpg with their car!!! Many are only getting 200 miles to a tank! Insane. Mazda royally screwed up this time!!
http://www.rx8forum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8919
Both cars had around 1500 miles. Both were 6MT's.
BTW, the only RX-8's running low 14's are the mag versions. Only 1 RX-8 on the messageboard broke 14's (14.9 to be exact), and the rest are running low to mid 15's. A guy on with a 6-speed on their board lost to a new Solara!! HAHAHA!!!
The worst part is that many are experiencing 13 mpg with their car!!! Many are only getting 200 miles to a tank! Insane. Mazda royally screwed up this time!!
http://www.rx8forum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8919
08-26-2003, 02:40 PM
#27
Suzuka Master
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Here are a few times of the 6-speed RX-8 at the track:
reac. .516
60ft. 2.407
330ft. 6.525
1/8th et 9.914
1/8th mph 72.80
1/4 et 15.277
mph. 90.38
reac. .536.
60ft. 2.305.
330ft 6.495.
1/8 et 9.920.
1/8mph 72.10.
1/4 et 15.333.
1/4mph 89.65
reac .560
60ft 2.253
330ft 6.406
1/8et 9.878
1/8mph 70.98
1/4et 15.404
1/4mph 88.06
reac. .516
60ft. 2.407
330ft. 6.525
1/8th et 9.914
1/8th mph 72.80
1/4 et 15.277
mph. 90.38
reac. .536.
60ft. 2.305.
330ft 6.495.
1/8 et 9.920.
1/8mph 72.10.
1/4 et 15.333.
1/4mph 89.65
reac .560
60ft 2.253
330ft 6.406
1/8et 9.878
1/8mph 70.98
1/4et 15.404
1/4mph 88.06
08-26-2003, 02:47 PM
#28
Suzuka Master
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Last post, but I found this pretty funny.. This is from a RX-8 owner:
Bad RX-8 Moments:
1) When I dynoed the car 5 weeks ago and first discovered it's little secret.
2) When I realized I have no chance of passing a Toyota Solara if he/she decides to accelerate.
3) When Mazda is F^+$(ing lying about a 9hp correction that does not affect performance.
4) When I realized that the RX-8 will be laughed at by other enthusiasts unless I drop $$$$ on mods so that I can hang with Boxters, and S2000's.
I am at a loss. I waited many years to own a fresh, brand new, rotary car. Huge improvements from previous NA rotarys, but not keeping up with the 280+hp [real hp] V6's.
Bad RX-8 Moments:
1) When I dynoed the car 5 weeks ago and first discovered it's little secret.
2) When I realized I have no chance of passing a Toyota Solara if he/she decides to accelerate.
3) When Mazda is F^+$(ing lying about a 9hp correction that does not affect performance.
4) When I realized that the RX-8 will be laughed at by other enthusiasts unless I drop $$$$ on mods so that I can hang with Boxters, and S2000's.
I am at a loss. I waited many years to own a fresh, brand new, rotary car. Huge improvements from previous NA rotarys, but not keeping up with the 280+hp [real hp] V6's.
08-26-2003, 02:48 PM
#29
an adult perspective
Originally posted by cusdaddy
The worst part is that many are experiencing 13 mpg with their car!!! Many are only getting 200 miles to a tank! Insane. Mazda royally screwed up this time!!
The worst part is that many are experiencing 13 mpg with their car!!! Many are only getting 200 miles to a tank! Insane. Mazda royally screwed up this time!!
The bad seals of the early 70's - along with the gas crisis of '73 - nearly finalized the demise of the rotary engine - as witnessed by the reduction of the rotary line from a total of 5 vehicles (RX-2, RX-3, RX-4, COSMO, and the Rotary Pick-up) to the RX-7 which fell to high costs. If this doesn't get sorted out SOON there will never, ever again be an RX-7 in the stable.
08-26-2003, 04:23 PM
#31
The hair says it all
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i would be pretty embarassed if i paid over sticker for it.
still, you have to admit that it (and im mag racing here, i haven't driven it) out handles a lot of stuff and has a sweet interior
still, you have to admit that it (and im mag racing here, i haven't driven it) out handles a lot of stuff and has a sweet interior
08-26-2003, 05:15 PM
#32
an adult perspective
Originally posted by Python2121
i would be pretty embarassed if i paid over sticker for it.
i would be pretty embarassed if i paid over sticker for it.
08-26-2003, 06:54 PM
#34
Burning Brakes
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Originally posted by CLSter
Mazda seems to have the market cornered on gutless but great handling cars. Miata and now the RX-8. Didn't Nissan also overstate their HP/Torque ratings awhile ago?
Mazda seems to have the market cornered on gutless but great handling cars. Miata and now the RX-8. Didn't Nissan also overstate their HP/Torque ratings awhile ago?
08-26-2003, 07:04 PM
#35
MR O'NEAL
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sucks-- i always thought the rx-8 would be a tight car to own.. now that i see its 15 second 1/4 mile-- no thanks... i could do that by adding mods to my first gen
08-26-2003, 07:55 PM
#36
Drifting
Does everyone remember the DOHC Cobra Mustang fiasco? Ford owns a great stake in Mazda and it shows.
I have a close friend that owns an RX-8. If I bring this up, I probably get punched
I have a close friend that owns an RX-8. If I bring this up, I probably get punched
08-26-2003, 08:26 PM
#37
One who Laps
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I'm in shock with those being the dyno numbers. I've always been a Madza rotary fanatic and still own my 84' RX-7 GSL 12A Rotary and to this day it has only 16,000 miles, a sweet ride. It's showroom mint with many mods and I smile every time I star it up. It turns heads everywhere I drive it. I have digital pics but not sure how to post them here. For those of you not familiar with the rotary engine, hold your criticisms because it's an awesome engine design, very powerful for it's size. Because of it's size, it's light and allows for a design with incredible handling characteristics.
Mazda will fix it's error here and I believe you'll see other designs of this Rotary before long. Can you say boost?
Anyway, 3 to 4 years down the road my CL will be replaced a Rotary powered sports car from Mazda, maybe an RX-7.
That's unless Acura replaces the CL with something better and so far I don't like what I see.
Mazda will fix it's error here and I believe you'll see other designs of this Rotary before long. Can you say boost?
Anyway, 3 to 4 years down the road my CL will be replaced a Rotary powered sports car from Mazda, maybe an RX-7.
That's unless Acura replaces the CL with something better and so far I don't like what I see.
08-26-2003, 09:00 PM
#38
Three Wheelin'
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How do car makers determine engine power? Do they have dynos that connect directly to the crankshaft or something? Or is it calculated from WHP and adding back their best estimate of driveline loss?
