JZ

First off--if the horsepower numbers are accurate I doubt we are going to see the 3.5L i-VTEC motor since that is already known to put out 300hp in its current form.


Secondly, and more importantly, did anyone notice what they said with regard to the bump in horsepower the CL is slated to get. They said, "...to keep up with BMW". Last I recall the BMW inline 6 makes only 225 horsepower! How in the hell is a bump from 260 to 280 in line with keeping up with a motor that currently has 35 less horsepower!!!!! Obviously they are not talking about the M engine becuase 280 doesn't even come close to that one.

Sheeesh.

AcuraFan

When it comes to keeping up with BMW, I think they might be talking about performance. Even though the 330ci has 35 less hp, it's a faster car both to 60 and in the 1/4 mile.

Chaptorial

Hmmm, welcome to second thoughts about buying a 2003. Nuts!

AcuraFan

Well, I hope you guys are right about the AWD CL. And I hope unsure is right about a "snazzier" CL. Then I would have no problems choosing a CL over G35 coupe. As it stands RWD coupes are just a little too impractical for me right now. (Hey, I'm a Honda man, "practical" is my middle name!)

w00t!

neoprufrok

Well, I used to be a Minnesotan too.

Winter tires do wonders to rwd cars.

In fact, my sister drives a bmw over there with no problem on her Blizzaks.

I still think the CL should be rwd, but I'm sure if it was, it would cost more... which makes it not worthwhile to me.

nvpscore

would the AWD system help with the ratio? make it more 50:50?

DISRUPTV

no i doubt it, it would prob still be front biased..there are a few rear wheel drve cars out there that are front biased i.e. nose heavy BUT if honda is serious abt performance they will prob try 2 distribute the weight as evenly as possible for them...

Acurafan, hope i didn't seem 2 come 2 hard on u but I agree w/u too... I too will be in a market for a new car God-willing w/in 2-3 years and am praying that an AWD car comes out from Acura...hopefully they won't adopt that stupid one piece header exhaust manifold idea on the new CL/TLs so that we can put headers on them

p.s. how's the handling on AWD cars? I heard they aren't 2 great?? is that so?

AcuraFan

Not a problem, unsure.

Well, my boss swears by the handling of his TT but I beg to differ...it's been my experience that they don't handle as well.

AcuraFan

And by the way, I would love to see AWD on the CL too. I'm just not holding my breath.

Crazy Bimmer

this does make sense. I forgot where i heard this, but someone said the RL wont go RWD cuz there isnt a demand for it for people who live up north. Also they said somthing how acura is making sure they can do whatever they can to stay away from the RWD market.

Maybe they are getting smart, and realized if Audi can do it, then they can.

AcuraFan

And that's actually kinda funny because if there were a segment of sedans that could be RWD, it's the larger luxury cars. (the Q45 comes to mind for some reason.) But I won't argue with Honda's logic. And RWD works well for the overtly sporty cars (like the S2000) But I'm glad they use it only where needed...and it's NOT needed on the CL/TL.

Crazy Bimmer

Well i think acura had no choice... if they wanted to increase power.. then they had to go either rwd or AWD. A 280hp fwd car is not fun.

AcuraFan

lol...I've never tried that. However, I'm sure Honda would find a way to make it work...and work well. We'll just have to wait and see.

Thanks for the discussion.

amir was here

if acura confirms AWD before January, i'l cancel my order for the Audi...

fuck.

DISRUPTV

in an interview from a few years back, a Honda engineer said AWD was only necessary if the cars were making 300hp or more so I'm also not holding my breath although will really really hope that there is an AWD TL/CL

Amir, I thought u hated acura 2 much 2 go back???

amir was here

your right.

i take my comment back

its just that looks wise, and on paper, the car is really great..

but quality is not something you can measure on paper..and quality is definetly the only issue that acura has in my opinion.

If the CL was possibly assembled in Japan, with AWD, then I would reconsider the status the Acura CL holds in my head.

scalbert

An increase to 280 HP and AWD (with the associated 200+ lbs added) will give slightly better 0 - 30 times but then the FWD would start pulling by. To run AWD you need better torque than we have, HP numbers are meaningless with AWD.

So Acura would need to start making 260+ Lb/Ft which I doubt they would. In order for this to be more than a marketing strategy to gain sales then the torque needs to be significantly increased. So they might bring AWD, but I doubt we will see any serious gains by this.

Look at the FWD and AWD DSMs, until you started increasing the boost, i.e. Torque, the FWD cars would run better times.

As for the 3.5L i-VTEC, that would be a DOHC engine so would it be a 60 or 90 degree block. IMO, it would have to be 60 degree otherwise it wouldn't fit.

Six Shifter

Just a thought about an AWD CL ... I remember that there was talk about an AWD platform for the 2nd gen Legends back in the early 90's. In case anybody has forgotten (or wasn't around back then), not only did we not see AWD, but the entire 2dr line disappeared. I'll believe it when I see it.

SiGGy

heh, ya me too

But I'll buy a AWD 6MT TLS if one exists. Otherwise it's buh-bye Acura for me.

1SICKLEX

Overseas, I think the Accord will take on the Legend name in some markets cause the RL is a total joke and laughed at by the Euro community.

IS 300 WILL offer coupe/convet and AWD in it's next interation. This 1st gen was PRACTICE.

AcuraFan

I can see Acura doing a major redesign on the TL/CL bringing back the Legend name as sort of a "back to it's roots" thing...It seems like all the other companies are bringing back old cars and names and such (350Z, GT40, Mach 1, etc). I know I would rather be driving a "Legend" coupe than a "CL".

Thoughts on the TL/CL vs Legend names?

soopa

you people drive me crazy :shakehd: :shakehd:


heres the facts.

THEY HAVE ALL WHEEL DRIVE ALREADY. It is VTM-4, it was built on and designed around a CAR chassis.

At anytime they could mate it to any of their new vehicles/powertrains.


Their VTM-4 drivetrain is more efficient and weighs little more then their current FWD layouts. It is the LIGHTEST AWD system on the market.



Before you all go making assumptions and guesstimates on numbers PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE read up on the facts...

Look for articles from when the MDX came out. There was no good reason for Acura took make a system this technologically superior simply for the MDX/Pilot.

You are going to, without a doubt, see VTM-4 on A Honda/Acura passenger car. What car? Who knows... but the TL is a likely possibility. Why?

What cars are in line for overhauls in the next 1-2 years? The RL and the TL... both are due for REDESIGNS, not facelifts, but complete overhauls. The TL is reaching the end of its current lifespan and the RL is well past.

It is safe to assume that if in fact the TL receives this treatment, the CL will receive the same within 1-2 years after that time.


Now. If you want to know about VTM-4 and stop making false assumptions look for the whitepapers that were released when the MDX debuted... look for articles on the system by C&D etc. Theres alot of info in there that will raise your eyebrow.

I at one point read a 15 page Honda whitepaper on the system... it is THE SHIT. I suggest anyone who cares try to find those articles and check them out yourselves.

AcuraFan

I don't think anyone is arguing about the merits of the VTM-4 system. And I don't think anyone is saying that they wouldn't like it on the cars (except maybe the RWD nuts). I would like to see it happen just as much as you do. What I'm saying is I'm not holding my breathe. To say anything else without an official word from Acura would be pure speculation. You can make your wish list for the next CL...I'm waiting for the press release before I rejoice.

Six Shifter

I would echo the last sentiments. While (it appears that) nobody is questioning the desire for an AWD platform for an improved version of this car, until it hits the showroom it is just rumour. Remember how radical the show car was back in the mid 90's of what was purported to be the next generation 2 door ACURA sport luxury coupe? And how as it got closer to going into production, the print was boasting a new coupe with "... styling cues from the show vehicle...", and how it ended up being an upgraded Honda Accord? The fact is that the chassis for the 2nd gen Legend was designed with AWD in mind, however Honda/ACURA decided not/not to pull the trigger and make it available on a production vehicle. We will all have to wait and see.

As for the Legend vs CL question - keep in mind that (as of 1990 anyway) the only market who carried the Legend model - or the ACURA nameplate for that matter - was the U.S. market. Legend coupes in the U.K. were called Hondas, and were labeled as such on the rear deck. One good thing about a potential return to the Legend model might be the hope that they would again be produced in the homeland, and not some parallel production line to the Accord in the Marysville factory in Ohio!

Red Rider

Many of us here with headers and intake have over 300 H.P. FWD cars and they are plenty of fun, and still no torque steer.

Red Rider

Soopa, keep in mind that the VTM-4 is 4 wheel drive and not all wheel drive ala Subaru and Audi. The 4 wheel drive only kicks in when the computer recognizes wheelspin, otherwise the system is in front wheel drive 99% of the time. That's why the MDX gets such great mileage.

AcuraFan

Just out of curiosity, can you deactivate the VTM-4 with a button (like most traction control systems)?

Nashua_Night_Hawk

No.. You can however engage it full time at low speed less than 18 MPH

Awais

VTM-4 comes on automatically, whenever it senses a wheel spin. However, you can activate it manually too, through a button on the dash board. It works upto a certain speed (40 mph, if i remember it correctly) and then shuts off automatically again.

Red Rider

Nashua had it right, it's up to 18mph.

NOVAwhiteTypeS

AWD is a great idea for the new cl/tl. that way they won't lose existing customer's who like FWD. If you want a RWD then go to bmw cause acura will most likely never offer it other than in the nsx and s2k.

Soopa is right VTM-4 weights little to nothing and the added traction it provides will make up for more than the additional weight you guys are concerned about. If your concerned about 50~100 more lbs then just go on a diet...

I also think the new 04 TL/ CL will get a 3.2 i-vtec. not 3.5 as this might too much power, too close to the nsx.

Most likely they will also increase the VTM-4 speed from 18mph to 60mph or may be not even put a limit on and make it full time cause it won't be in a truck.

NOVAwhiteTypeS

btw: VTM-4 has no transfer case. This immediately results in less weight, complexity, noise and fuel usage...

fast_daddy_car

I see it now, AWD TL-S for me next year

maybe I should start leasing cars instead of paying cash.

scalbert

Not disagreeing, just curious. Being that the MDX engine is transversely mounted, how do they then spilt and route power to the rear?? Maybe there isn't a transfer case but an integrated unit in the front differential?? Or rather, it is integrated into the transaxle??

JZ

I think if the VTM-4 makes its way onto a production Acura it will be the newly redesigned CL. Just like the Type S was introduced on their "sporty coupe" first, I think there is no reason to put AWD on a sedan. 99% of TL owners are probably happy with their FWD. The other 0.9% probably wish they had RWD and the remaining 0.1% would probably like AWD.

If the TL came out with the AWD system then it would be kind of anti-climactic if it was then introduced on their next sports coupe.

That being said, I'm sure reality will be completely opposite of that which I just stated so go ahead and get yourselves on the waiting list for the new AWD TL-S!

AcuraFan

Seeing AWD in the coupe would be great considering it's lacking RWD. But I can see AWD hitting the TL at the same time or before. If Acura wanted to compete with the A4 and the 330xi, they would do best to have an AWD sedan.