Just had my day in court... and WON! Beat a cop!
07-31-2001, 01:51 PM
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Just had my day in court... and WON! Beat a cop!
Ok - so about 2 months ago, I got an "illegal start from parked position" ticket. My story was that I was next to a motorcycle cop at a major intersection, though I didn't know it was a cop because my visor was down (sun). I take off at about half throttle because I'm in the merge lane and "squeak" my tires (as we all know, you can't light 'em up with VSA on) and motor past the cop (still half throttle, not even VTEC!), use my blinker, and pull in front of him. He hits the blues and pulls me over. He actually said I was trying to race him!!! HA! Dumb cop. So I asked him why I was getting a ticket. "Because you spun your tires" he says. I ask, "Would you have given me a ticket if I had not spun my tires?" to that, he answers "No." I'm thinking "See you in court, dumbass!".
So I go to court today (downtown Orlando) and the judge calls my case. The cop tells his side (there was a merge lane, blah blah blah, I spun my tires, blah blah, lots of traffic (BS), etc. The judge then asks him some questions about his side and asks for my side. I told him it was a dry day, I have traction control, and I had had no expectation of being unreasonably unsafe. The judge asks the cop for anything further (No), and DISMISSES THE CASE!
Woo-hoo!
BTW - it makes a HUGE difference when you have your act together. If you challenge a ticket, find the statute on-line and think of your defense. Wear a suit. The judge and bailiff thought I was a lawyer.
In general, be respectful, stay to the facts, and stay away from character assassinations. Your only defense is to convince the judge that there is reasonable doubt that your actions did not violate the statue.
It was fun!
So I go to court today (downtown Orlando) and the judge calls my case. The cop tells his side (there was a merge lane, blah blah blah, I spun my tires, blah blah, lots of traffic (BS), etc. The judge then asks him some questions about his side and asks for my side. I told him it was a dry day, I have traction control, and I had had no expectation of being unreasonably unsafe. The judge asks the cop for anything further (No), and DISMISSES THE CASE!
Woo-hoo!
BTW - it makes a HUGE difference when you have your act together. If you challenge a ticket, find the statute on-line and think of your defense. Wear a suit. The judge and bailiff thought I was a lawyer.
In general, be respectful, stay to the facts, and stay away from character assassinations. Your only defense is to convince the judge that there is reasonable doubt that your actions did not violate the statue.It was fun!
wish we could delete our own freaking posts!!!!
07-31-2001, 02:07 PM
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What really happened was the cop saw your scratched rims and had to give you a citation Good work Shapiro, I agree don't be a punk in court and things may go your way .
Good work Shapiro, I agree don't be a punk in court and things may go your way .
07-31-2001, 02:23 PM
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thats what im all about. you have to at least look the part and do some research. or your gona look like u dont really care. congrats, i hate cops
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07-31-2001, 03:09 PM
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When he first pulled me over, I tried to tell the cop (a motorcycle egomaniac) that my stock tires (that were still at legal tread limit) were getting slippery and that I had VSA. He was just cheezed that I pulled in front of him.
Originally posted by cl-driver:
<STRONG>That's great. You should have just told him that you had stock tires. Then he probably would have dismissed it before listening to both sides of the story.</STRONG>
<STRONG>That's great. You should have just told him that you had stock tires. Then he probably would have dismissed it before listening to both sides of the story.</STRONG>
07-31-2001, 08:26 PM
#13
pumpkin escobar
Originally posted by Black_Pride:
<STRONG>
ME FUCKIN 2!!!</STRONG>
<STRONG>
ME FUCKIN 2!!!</STRONG>
07-31-2001, 08:51 PM
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Where did you find the info on those laws and stuff, I got one of those tickets the other night and im gonna fight it. Can you give me that web page so I can find out what the laws are. BTW, im in NY if that makes a difference.
07-31-2001, 08:51 PM
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Originally posted by minla007:
<STRONG>
i agree too! congrats on ur case...i hope to win mine too...cops are all bastards who like to abuse their authority...i have never met a reasonable cop...even when i had to call them myself....want a donut piggy??</STRONG>
<STRONG>
i agree too! congrats on ur case...i hope to win mine too...cops are all bastards who like to abuse their authority...i have never met a reasonable cop...even when i had to call them myself....want a donut piggy??</STRONG>
OK guys, we're starting to get into dangerous territory here. Don't you think that calling them "all bastards who like to abuse their authority" is a sweeping (and false) generalization? Yes, I have helped many of you with your tickets, but this attitude of "I didn't do anything wrong" has to stop.... Some tickets are stupid, but most I've heard about from here seem to have a legitimate basis. Stop whining when you get caught really breaking the law. Fight it, but don't make generalizations like this.
Have you ever thought that there may be police officers who are on this board? You're just singling yourself out. And I myself am friends with a number of state troopers/officers, from Montgomery County MD to PA. There's nothing wrong with them. Some of them can be idiots, but it's like anything else, there are some good and some bad.... I don't see anyone calling all Acura dealers unreasonable if the one they deal with is.
Just my opinion.
-Maria
07-31-2001, 09:14 PM
#17
Suzuka Master
Originally posted by jrod178:
<STRONG>Where did you find the info on those laws and stuff, I got one of those tickets the other night and im gonna fight it. Can you give me that web page so I can find out what the laws are. BTW, im in NY if that makes a difference.</STRONG>
<STRONG>Where did you find the info on those laws and stuff, I got one of those tickets the other night and im gonna fight it. Can you give me that web page so I can find out what the laws are. BTW, im in NY if that makes a difference.</STRONG>
Someone posted the legal page to end all legal pages, however...
Most specific search (with traffic code for New York):
Search 1:
New York Laws -> Vehicle and Traffic -> link:
http://www.megalaw.com/ny/nycodetoc....ERYDATA=@LLVAT
New York Codes and Regulations:
http://www.megalaw.com/ny/nycode.php3
Vehicle & Traffic Law
How may I get a copy of the Vehicle & Traffic Law?
The Vehicle & Traffic Law book is available from DMV for $1.50 per copy. Write to: Certified Document Center, NYS DMV, Empire State Plaza, Albany, NY 12228. Payment is by check or money order made out to Commissioner of Motor Vehicles.
The NY State Assembly or NY Senate web sites have some sections of the Vehicle & Traffic Law on line.
http://assembly.state.ny.us/ALIS/ http://www.senate.state.ny.us/ http://www.nydmv.state.ny.us/broch/c49.htm
07-31-2001, 10:21 PM
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Good job. It's nice when you win a few. Will you feel ok if you lose a few, too? It's funny how when we win, that's great and justice spoke, but if we lose, how awful, so unjust, this sucks. Kinda like finding a $5 bill on the street one week, finding a $20 next week. Awesome! Next month if you lose a $10, you feel so screwed....
[ 07-31-2001: Message edited by: kensteele ]
[ 07-31-2001: Message edited by: kensteele ]
07-31-2001, 10:24 PM
#19
Suzuka Master
Originally posted by kensteele:
<STRONG>Good job. It's nice when you win a few. Will you feel ok if you lose a few, too? It's funny how when we win, that's great and justice spoke, but if we lose, how awful, so unjust, this sucks. Kinda like finding a $5 bill on the street one week, finding a $20 next week. Awesome! Next month if you lose a $10, you feel so screwed....
[ 07-31-2001: Message edited by: kensteele ]</STRONG>
<STRONG>Good job. It's nice when you win a few. Will you feel ok if you lose a few, too? It's funny how when we win, that's great and justice spoke, but if we lose, how awful, so unjust, this sucks. Kinda like finding a $5 bill on the street one week, finding a $20 next week. Awesome! Next month if you lose a $10, you feel so screwed....
[ 07-31-2001: Message edited by: kensteele ]</STRONG>
How very true -- justice is rather capricious!
08-01-2001, 12:39 AM
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Thanks.
I took special notice of this message. Perhaps I should explain why I decided to fight this ticket.
1) In FL, all moving violations are 3 points, unless it's a "major" - 15mph+ over the limit, reckless driving, etc. So I get 3 points for "spinning my tires" the same as if I were doing 84 in a 70. Dumb.
2) The statute for improper start from a parked position reads, "No person shall start a vehicle which is stopped, standing, or parked, unless and until such movement can be made with reasonable safety." I fundamentally disagreed with the officer's view of my actions, and believed it to be an act of malice due to a rather inflated ego.
3) This cop had an attitude. His statement, "You were trying to race me" was absurd. The fact that he was present at the hearing, and I was still able to get the charge dismissed is a pretty good indication that it was rediculous.
4) I asked him if he would have given me a ticket if I hadn't spun my tires. He stated that he would not have, which led me to believe that he had issued the citation improperly.
Though my decision was somewhat motivated by a "revenge" factor, my ultimate decision to take the citation to court was motivated by my study of the statute, as well as the comments the office made himself. Had I done something REALLY stupid like WOTed it and then cut in front of him, I would have deserved it and realized I couldn't fight it.
I also feel that the fact that I showed my respect for the process, and all parties involved, and didn't even respond to his character assasination attempt showed the Judge that I had a fundamental, well-based belief that the citation was improperly issued.
That is why I took it to court, and that is why I won.
BTW Ken - I'm notresponding to you personally - just the other members that might have an unclear view of my intentions.
I took special notice of this message. Perhaps I should explain why I decided to fight this ticket.
1) In FL, all moving violations are 3 points, unless it's a "major" - 15mph+ over the limit, reckless driving, etc. So I get 3 points for "spinning my tires" the same as if I were doing 84 in a 70. Dumb.
2) The statute for improper start from a parked position reads, "No person shall start a vehicle which is stopped, standing, or parked, unless and until such movement can be made with reasonable safety." I fundamentally disagreed with the officer's view of my actions, and believed it to be an act of malice due to a rather inflated ego.
3) This cop had an attitude. His statement, "You were trying to race me" was absurd. The fact that he was present at the hearing, and I was still able to get the charge dismissed is a pretty good indication that it was rediculous.
4) I asked him if he would have given me a ticket if I hadn't spun my tires. He stated that he would not have, which led me to believe that he had issued the citation improperly.
Though my decision was somewhat motivated by a "revenge" factor, my ultimate decision to take the citation to court was motivated by my study of the statute, as well as the comments the office made himself. Had I done something REALLY stupid like WOTed it and then cut in front of him, I would have deserved it and realized I couldn't fight it.
I also feel that the fact that I showed my respect for the process, and all parties involved, and didn't even respond to his character assasination attempt showed the Judge that I had a fundamental, well-based belief that the citation was improperly issued.
That is why I took it to court, and that is why I won.
BTW Ken - I'm notresponding to you personally - just the other members that might have an unclear view of my intentions.
Originally posted by kensteele:
<STRONG>Good job. It's nice when you win a few. Will you feel ok if you lose a few, too? It's funny how when we win, that's great and justice spoke, but if we lose, how awful, so unjust, this sucks. Kinda like finding a $5 bill on the street one week, finding a $20 next week. Awesome! Next month if you lose a $10, you feel so screwed....
[ 07-31-2001: Message edited by: kensteele ]</STRONG>
<STRONG>Good job. It's nice when you win a few. Will you feel ok if you lose a few, too? It's funny how when we win, that's great and justice spoke, but if we lose, how awful, so unjust, this sucks. Kinda like finding a $5 bill on the street one week, finding a $20 next week. Awesome! Next month if you lose a $10, you feel so screwed....
[ 07-31-2001: Message edited by: kensteele ]</STRONG>
08-01-2001, 01:45 AM
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Originally posted by autox-CL-er:
<STRONG>Thanks.
I took special notice of this message. Perhaps I should explain why I decided to fight this ticket.
1) In FL, all moving violations are 3 points, unless it's a "major" - 15mph+ over the limit, reckless driving, etc. So I get 3 points for "spinning my tires" the same as if I were doing 84 in a 70. Dumb.
2) The statute for improper start from a parked position reads, "No person shall start a vehicle which is stopped, standing, or parked, unless and until such movement can be made with reasonable safety." I fundamentally disagreed with the officer's view of my actions, and believed it to be an act of malice due to a rather inflated ego.
3) This cop had an attitude. His statement, "You were trying to race me" was absurd. The fact that he was present at the hearing, and I was still able to get the charge dismissed is a pretty good indication that it was rediculous.
4) I asked him if he would have given me a ticket if I hadn't spun my tires. He stated that he would not have, which led me to believe that he had issued the citation improperly.
Though my decision was somewhat motivated by a "revenge" factor, my ultimate decision to take the citation to court was motivated by my study of the statute, as well as the comments the office made himself. Had I done something REALLY stupid like WOTed it and then cut in front of him, I would have deserved it and realized I couldn't fight it.
I also feel that the fact that I showed my respect for the process, and all parties involved, and didn't even respond to his character assasination attempt showed the Judge that I had a fundamental, well-based belief that the citation was improperly issued.
That is why I took it to court, and that is why I won.
BTW Ken - I'm notresponding to you personally - just the other members that might have an unclear view of my intentions.
</STRONG>
<STRONG>Thanks.
I took special notice of this message. Perhaps I should explain why I decided to fight this ticket.
1) In FL, all moving violations are 3 points, unless it's a "major" - 15mph+ over the limit, reckless driving, etc. So I get 3 points for "spinning my tires" the same as if I were doing 84 in a 70. Dumb.
2) The statute for improper start from a parked position reads, "No person shall start a vehicle which is stopped, standing, or parked, unless and until such movement can be made with reasonable safety." I fundamentally disagreed with the officer's view of my actions, and believed it to be an act of malice due to a rather inflated ego.
3) This cop had an attitude. His statement, "You were trying to race me" was absurd. The fact that he was present at the hearing, and I was still able to get the charge dismissed is a pretty good indication that it was rediculous.
4) I asked him if he would have given me a ticket if I hadn't spun my tires. He stated that he would not have, which led me to believe that he had issued the citation improperly.
Though my decision was somewhat motivated by a "revenge" factor, my ultimate decision to take the citation to court was motivated by my study of the statute, as well as the comments the office made himself. Had I done something REALLY stupid like WOTed it and then cut in front of him, I would have deserved it and realized I couldn't fight it.
I also feel that the fact that I showed my respect for the process, and all parties involved, and didn't even respond to his character assasination attempt showed the Judge that I had a fundamental, well-based belief that the citation was improperly issued.
That is why I took it to court, and that is why I won.
BTW Ken - I'm notresponding to you personally - just the other members that might have an unclear view of my intentions.
</STRONG>
-M
08-01-2001, 01:55 AM
#24
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Originally posted by mfnlaw:
<STRONG>
OK guys, we're starting to get into dangerous territory here. Don't you think that calling them "all bastards who like to abuse their authority" is a sweeping (and false) generalization? Yes, I have helped many of you with your tickets, but this attitude of "I didn't do anything wrong" has to stop.... Some tickets are stupid, but most I've heard about from here seem to have a legitimate basis. Stop whining when you get caught really breaking the law. Fight it, but don't make generalizations like this.
Have you ever thought that there may be police officers who are on this board? You're just singling yourself out. And I myself am friends with a number of state troopers/officers, from Montgomery County MD to PA. There's nothing wrong with them. Some of them can be idiots, but it's like anything else, there are some good and some bad.... I don't see anyone calling all Acura dealers unreasonable if the one they deal with is.
Just my opinion.
-Maria</STRONG>
<STRONG>
OK guys, we're starting to get into dangerous territory here. Don't you think that calling them "all bastards who like to abuse their authority" is a sweeping (and false) generalization? Yes, I have helped many of you with your tickets, but this attitude of "I didn't do anything wrong" has to stop.... Some tickets are stupid, but most I've heard about from here seem to have a legitimate basis. Stop whining when you get caught really breaking the law. Fight it, but don't make generalizations like this.
Have you ever thought that there may be police officers who are on this board? You're just singling yourself out. And I myself am friends with a number of state troopers/officers, from Montgomery County MD to PA. There's nothing wrong with them. Some of them can be idiots, but it's like anything else, there are some good and some bad.... I don't see anyone calling all Acura dealers unreasonable if the one they deal with is.
Just my opinion.
-Maria</STRONG>
08-01-2001, 03:34 AM
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Originally posted by mfnlaw:
<STRONG>
OK guys, we're starting to get into dangerous territory here. Don't you think that calling them "all bastards who like to abuse their authority" is a sweeping (and false) generalization? Yes, I have helped many of you with your tickets, but this attitude of "I didn't do anything wrong" has to stop.... Some tickets are stupid, but most I've heard about from here seem to have a legitimate basis. Stop whining when you get caught really breaking the law. Fight it, but don't make generalizations like this.
Have you ever thought that there may be police officers who are on this board? You're just singling yourself out. And I myself am friends with a number of state troopers/officers, from Montgomery County MD to PA. There's nothing wrong with them. Some of them can be idiots, but it's like anything else, there are some good and some bad.... I don't see anyone calling all Acura dealers unreasonable if the one they deal with is.
Just my opinion.
-Maria</STRONG>
<STRONG>
OK guys, we're starting to get into dangerous territory here. Don't you think that calling them "all bastards who like to abuse their authority" is a sweeping (and false) generalization? Yes, I have helped many of you with your tickets, but this attitude of "I didn't do anything wrong" has to stop.... Some tickets are stupid, but most I've heard about from here seem to have a legitimate basis. Stop whining when you get caught really breaking the law. Fight it, but don't make generalizations like this.
Have you ever thought that there may be police officers who are on this board? You're just singling yourself out. And I myself am friends with a number of state troopers/officers, from Montgomery County MD to PA. There's nothing wrong with them. Some of them can be idiots, but it's like anything else, there are some good and some bad.... I don't see anyone calling all Acura dealers unreasonable if the one they deal with is.
Just my opinion.
-Maria</STRONG>
08-01-2001, 11:31 AM
#28
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Actually, I wasn't replying directly to your comments. For a larger part, I agree with everything you said. I got a ticket for doing 90 in a 70 and paid it. It's not right for me to waste the court's and officer's time with a useless challenge to a justified citation.
It all gets down to a respect issue. If you get busted for breaking the rules, respect the fact that you were wrong. If, however, you don't get caught...
It all gets down to a respect issue. If you get busted for breaking the rules, respect the fact that you were wrong. If, however, you don't get caught...
Originally posted by mfnlaw:
<STRONG>
And to clear up any confusion my comments may have caused... I have no problem with your situation. That, both to me personally and professionally (as an attorney), was justifiable. What irks me are the people who complain about getting a ticket for going 80 in a 35 and instead of admitting they made a mistake, are miffed at the officer for daring to enforce the law. That's all.
-M</STRONG>
<STRONG>
And to clear up any confusion my comments may have caused... I have no problem with your situation. That, both to me personally and professionally (as an attorney), was justifiable. What irks me are the people who complain about getting a ticket for going 80 in a 35 and instead of admitting they made a mistake, are miffed at the officer for daring to enforce the law. That's all.
-M</STRONG>
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