Kevin M

Hey Guys,
I have replaced the stock seats in my CL-S with Recaro SRD's. There is a story behind why I did this. Anyhow, I need some input on how to get the front airbags to work. When the harness is unplugged under the seats(necessary for seat removal) the light comes on on the dash. I am assuming the circut is no longer complete and the entire system (front/side airbags are defeated. I would like to have the two front airbags working and the light off on the dash. I have the Helm shop manual but I am not an electrician.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Kevin

Fabvsix

Pictures PLEASE ????

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2001 CL Type S Black/Ebony w/NAVI, PIAA bulbs, Tinted windows, JL Sub-woofer/Fosgate 250 watt amp, otherwise pure stock
1998 Accord Coupe EX-V6
Black Currant Pearl, PIAA bulbs, tinted windows, Fosgate 500 watt amp, Eclipes 6X9's,JL Sub-woofer, otherwise PURE stock !

Kevin M

Fabvsix,
No digital. I will try to borrow one when I get my car back. It is at a fabrication shop getting a rear strut tower brace/harness bar made. The rear seat will be out permantly and I am using carpet to cover the back area. I'll try to get pics of the whole thing when it is finished.
Kevin
P.S. I still need the electrical help!!!!!

Jens H.

Kevin: you know how to pick your projects that is for sure.Here is the deal,your front seats had airbags in them ,the removal of these and their associated electronics in the passenger seat has disabled the rest of the system as the main airbag ecu is not recieving any information from them.At this time I have no idea how to remedy this situation.The passenger seat contains a device that senses the presence and size of an occupant in the passenger seat along with a shoulder airbag.The driver seat contains only a shoulder airbag.Fooling the computer into thinking the airbags are present is not too tough but fooling the computer into thinking the passenger detection module is present will be a chore.The airbag ecu (underneath radio) communicates with the passenger detection module but I have no idea what type of signals are used.The other problem here is that the seatback on the passenger seat contains a sensor that is plugged into the occupant detection system.At this stage of the game you could reinstall the factory seats (cheapest way out)transfer all of the airbag gadgetry into your new seats(complex job to say the least)or live without the airbag system in the car.Meantime let me see what if anything could be done to fool the electronics.Jens

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1992 mazda Miata lowered with Eibach springs KYB AGX adjustable struts Sparco racing buckets 4 point safety harnesses Momo steering wheel lo profile headlite system with PIAA superwhite bulbs Custom audio system Custom gauges Jackson racing supercharger with header and Greddy cat back exhaust and a ton of other stuff 2000 Honda Civic on APEX coilovers Full Alpine Audio system factory fogs with Piaa bulbs Catz ZETA headlamp system tinted custom taillites and on and on

Kevin M

Jens,
Thank you for your time. I will greatly appreciate anything that you are able to dig up.
Kevin

Jens H.

Ok Kevin I gave this some serious consideration,Please understand this is a brief overview of a fairly complex job.First off let me say that your best bet is to make no attempt to modify this system and as such I do not take any responsibility here.Ok off my soapbox and on to the problem at hand.Some terminology,
SRS control unit = ecu
Occupant detection system ecu = OPDS ecu
To fool the ecu into thinking the airbags are still there is relatively simple,instead of an airbag plugged into the harness you substitute a resistor of the correct value.
The ecu will check the resistance of each bag at engine startup and monitor this value as the car is driven should the circuit change it's value or go open circuit the Airbag warning light will illuminate.So a resistor of the right value and the ecu is happy.
To fool the ecu into thinking the OPDS ecu is present is another matter entirely,to make this work you will have to install the sensor array and the OPDS ecu into the passenger seat.To do this is very experimental to say the least and ofcourse will require skills in not only electrical systems but also upholstery.Essentially you will need to either purchase the OPDS ecu and the sensor array or strip your old passenger seat and remove the parts from it.The trick in this is that sensor array is glued to the seat back cushion of the passenger seat so removing it will be a chore.If you elect to purchase at least a new sensor array you will get a complete seatback cushion with the sensor glued to it.
The other issue here is seat shape and construction.The sensors work on principles I am not fully in understanding of.However they are sensitive (extremely) so the question is will these sensors work in a seat whose construction may be very different than the original seat.
Assuming all of these hurdles are accomplished you will then need to perform or ask a friendly dealer to perform an initialization on the system and erase all fault codes.Barring any problems the SRS system may operate with front airbags only but I would not bet on it.If you really want to try this I suggest you start by buying factory manuals,your dealer can give you the phone number for the place to get them from.You will also need some tools and a boatload of patience.Let me know,Jens


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1992 mazda Miata lowered with Eibach springs KYB AGX adjustable struts Sparco racing buckets 4 point safety harnesses Momo steering wheel lo profile headlite system with PIAA superwhite bulbs Custom audio system Custom gauges Jackson racing supercharger with header and Greddy cat back exhaust and a ton of other stuff 2000 Honda Civic on APEX coilovers Full Alpine Audio system factory fogs with Piaa bulbs Catz ZETA headlamp system tinted custom taillites and on and on

CLpower

JENS IS THE MAN!

CLpower

and i think kevin is up to something i'd very much like

Jens H.

Ok last nite I had a spent some time messing around with my own car and came up with a much simpler method to allow this seat swapping to go unhindered.Although I have to see if it is truly a feasible idea electrically here is the basic plan.Early model 3.2 TL (1999) did not have the side airbag and OPDS equipment,It is possible that the ecu from a 1999 TL could be adapted to a newer vehicle that is missing it's side bags and OPDS gear.Since the 1999 ecu is not looking for this stuff it should in theory just operate the two front bags(steering wheel, passenger dash bags).On Monday when I have the wiring diagrams and service manuals to look at I will see if it is a plug and play proposition.Please understand even if the ecu can be plugged in I still do not recommend anyone go and modify safety systems in their cars for what I hope are obvious reasons.Off my safety soapbox now on Monday look here for more news on this admittedly very interesting project.Jens

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1992 mazda Miata lowered with Eibach springs KYB AGX adjustable struts Sparco racing buckets 4 point safety harnesses Momo steering wheel lo profile headlite system with PIAA superwhite bulbs Custom audio system Custom gauges Jackson racing supercharger with header and Greddy cat back exhaust and a ton of other stuff 2000 Honda Civic on APEX coilovers Full Alpine Audio system factory fogs with Piaa bulbs Catz ZETA headlamp system tinted custom taillites and on and on

Kevin M

Jens,
You rock!! I believe that I follow your explanation pretty well. An additional question if I may, If I can plug in a resistor of the correct value into each of the front seat harnesses, do you think I could get the two front airbags working? My limited understanding of the OPDS, is that it detects the position of front passenger in the seat to determine if it is safe to deploy the side airbag. Obviously, with the removal of the stock seats this is not an issue for me. Without trying to install the OPDS in the new passenger seat, would the system allow the two front airbags to deploy? Would it allow just the drivers front airbag to deploy, or is everything tied together, and it is all or nothing? It seems to me that Honda/Acura engineers would at a minimum assume that if the car hits something at say more than 5 to 10 mph, that someone is driving the car and by default would allow at least the drivers airbag to deploy.
Thanks again,
Kevin
P.S. I realize for your protection, that this is all just hypothetical.

Kevin M

Jens,
I think I was busy typing away while you were posting your last reply. You can kind of ignore it, since your are already ahead of me
Huge thanks,
Kevin

Jens H.

Ok just to make sure we are on the same page Kevin just installing substitute resistors won't be enough.The Airbag ecu and the Occupant detection system ecu are communicating constantly while the car is driven.So if the lines of communication do not work the airbag ecu assumes there is a fault and rather than allow the system to function in a compromised fashion it simply turns on the light and the airbags are nonfunctional untill the problem is corrected.I agree with your idea about airbag deployment but let me do the homework and see what is what.Jens

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1992 mazda Miata lowered with Eibach springs KYB AGX adjustable struts Sparco racing buckets 4 point safety harnesses Momo steering wheel lo profile headlite system with PIAA superwhite bulbs Custom audio system Custom gauges Jackson racing supercharger with header and Greddy cat back exhaust and a ton of other stuff 2000 Honda Civic on APEX coilovers Full Alpine Audio system factory fogs with Piaa bulbs Catz ZETA headlamp system tinted custom taillites and on and on

amir was here

am i the only one that REALLY wants to know the long story?

kevin please share.

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2001 CL-S
Black/Black
Moonroof Visor
Black Wood Dash Kit
Currently on TL rims with Nokian Winter Tires
My Bitch

Jayru

I think your BEST bet is to go with the ECU from a older model TL without side airbags.

Also a word of warning. Be carefull with the airbag sensors/circuits. I used to install radios at a place and my service manager told me a story about when he was probing some wires to find some circuit, the airbag blew up in his face and knocked him cold for a few mins. I have heard of these story before his also. Just be CAREFULL! Those airbags are like over $1,000 a PIECE!

amir was here

jayru were u been man?

havent seen you post in a while!

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2001 CL-S
Black/Black
Moonroof Visor
Black Wood Dash Kit
Currently on TL rims with Nokian Winter Tires
My Bitch

Kevin M

Amirsdafdari,
The short version of the long story is that I have been tracking the car a fair amount lately. I am 6'3 and when I put my helmet on, I am forced to tilt my head and even then it hits the side opening for the sun roof. This is uncomfortable and distracting while driving. The Recaro's allow the seat to be mounted about an inch and half lower. The new seats also offer significantly more lateral support and have slots for my five point harness.
Kevin

Kevin M

Jens,
I understand what you are saying, and I am anxiously awaiting to hear what you find out about the default(possibility of front bags still deploying) and the possibility of using the 99'TL ecu. Thanks again,
Kevin

Jens H.

Mike ok here we go.
As far as I can see and I am not done researching this this by a long stretch it can be done and would involve the following.
To rewire the CL/S wiring harness to accept a 99 airbag ecu is close to impossible as there are a huge number of differences not only in the total number of wires but also the shape and pin count of all the connectors.
The best way I can see getting this done would be to purchase the 99 ecu along with the 99 wiring harness specific to the 99 model year TL.
If the harness is available separately from the rest of the car harness(I believe it is) then this project will be considerably easier to accomplish.The biggest problem is the passenger airbag as it is a two speed unit that contains two separate explosive devices.What this means is that the bag can either be fired with a single charge or two at the same time.This is done so that the bag deploys at the correct speed for the speed at which an accident happens.
This is a feature now standard in all Acuras.The first year TL
did not have this as it was still produced under the then existing laws as applied to airbags and deployment speeds.
needless to say we are not out of the woods with this one as there are numerous connectors in the car that must be reconfigured to accept the 99 harness but I believe that this can be done.
I will let you know as I come up with more information.Jens

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1992 mazda Miata lowered with Eibach springs KYB AGX adjustable struts Sparco racing buckets 4 point safety harnesses Momo steering wheel lo profile headlite system with PIAA superwhite bulbs Custom audio system Custom gauges Jackson racing supercharger with header and Greddy cat back exhaust and a ton of other stuff 2000 Honda Civic on APEX coilovers Full Alpine Audio system factory fogs with Piaa bulbs Catz ZETA headlamp system tinted custom taillites and on and on