The stage where there are multiple cars already running it

https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-performance-parts-modifications-112/group-buy-jnr-ecu-dynos-gains-12-23-%3B-prices-posted-1-7-a-841554/

 

You little smart ass you. LOL

Now I have 11 pages to read before I can go to bed tonight...

 

Update on my build.

I called around to JE Pistons, Wiseco, Ross, and a few other places to get some pricing and availability on the J35 .020 over pistons. Both JE and Wiseco carry our series motor specs on file (FYI) and were able to give me up to date, accurate pricing and production length. JE says $990 for the set plus shipping and exluding rings. Also, it would be 4-6 weeks before I receive them and probably closer to the 6 week mark. Wiseco (through a retailer) gave me a price of $810 w/shipping at 3-4 weeks to produce. Wiseco also includes the rings as well. This is to build the pistons specifically for nitrous use, 20 over, forged aluminum, 10.4:1 CR, handle up to 850HP.....I currently have their invoice in my PayPal account and I will hopefully get them ordered by tomorrow.

So this leaves rods, bearings, fasteners and valavetrain. Im on the hunt.

 

Made a few videos for everyone doing some 150 sprays. I'll get them posted up tomorrow morning.

 

How about now ?

 

Sorry Rich, due to technology these days, I don't have home Internet. I literally control/manage my entire life off of iPads and iPhones. Lol. And of course I don't have wifi, just 3/4G so can't upload anything bigger than .0000001kb.

 

First of all I didn't realize until I came here to make an update that I never posted the videos I took the other night. I will be sure and do that sometime today...sorry.

Next, just wanted to let everyone know that I ordered an 05-08 RL piston from Acura (special order) and my delivery guy just brought the piston by and had a chance to look at it. As said here before in this forum, it looks physically identical to the 3.2 type s piston. And just as the 3.2 type s piston is, THIS PISTON IS ALSO CAST. IT IS IS NOT FORGED and does show the same exact casting marks/lines on the underside of the piston top. So let me sum this up once more for everyone here:

1. 3.2L Type S pistons are cast
2. 3.5L 05-08 RL pistons are cast

End of debate.

 

What debate?

 

Exactly.

Dude, I swear to God, before physically seeing both sets of pistons I did not know what to believe. You have one person that has a thread saying they are forged (as most say) and then the next guy with 10 posts total saying they aren't. Lol.

I guess I'm a "show me and I'll believe" type of person.

 

I completely agree. I was in that same camp until my engine was built and I saw the parts with my own eyes.

Hows the build going btw? Have you spoken with Rodney (J&R) ?

 

No, haven't got with Rodney yet. I'm still waiting on sorting out my bottom end and kind of taking my time in research of parts and just making sure that no mistakes are made. As for the build, I'm waiting to see if I'll take the RL rods out of the 3.5 in the black market with only 20k miles. If something Dallas through with that then I'll be spending nearly $600 from Acura for them. Plus the $800+ on the piston set. That's nearly $2000 just in the bottom end alone...excluding machine work and paying for a proper build.

What build did you have done? I was wondering why you were talking so much smack over there Mr.CIVICdrv until I seen you had an 03 CL, lol. What I really need is advice from people like you that have done these types of builds on Acura engines as this will be my first import build and am kind of clueless of parts/techniques/etc...

Anyhow, thanks for the interest man.

 

Im running a 3.6l:

-J37 Crank and Rods
-J35 Pistons
-KMS Titanium Valve Springs and Retainers
-Ported and Polished Heads and Intake Runners
-80mm throttle body, bored and resculpted manifold, MDX air horns, plenum spacers
-Equal Length Long Tube Headers; 1-7/8” Primaries, 2.5” Downtubes, 3” J-pipe
-Magnaflow High Flow Catalytic Converter
-Magnaflow Resonator
-Magnaflow Mufflers
-Option Racing Lightweight Underdrive Pulley

Im untuned and running very rich above 6k rpms (~11:1). I made 294/275 at the wheels before the new headers and exhaust. I havent strapped it on the dyno since but it definitely has more power now, especially up top. The intake system is being revised and the car will finally be tuned. Shooting for ~325/300 at the wheels when that is done. At that point I will officially be done with the car and able to focus on my other car.

If I were to do it all over again Id have the crank knife edged and balanced. I would have also liked to have gotten the heads flow benched, stock vs PnP'd, but time was working against me.

 

Ah man, nice! Right on. I strongly considered the j37 internals but there were a couple of things that scared me like the lengthening of the crank snout, boring cylinders to service limit (when using j37 pistons), and some other smaller issues. For a NA build though, it sounds solid. But running 200 shots everyday of the week would've probably been detrimental to that motor.

Question: why does the motor run rich at high revs? I was told (and read) that ECM adapts very well to the internals and doesn't make sense why it does this. Have you hit fuel from limits? And I assume it's all factory sensors, wiring and ECM?

 

As of now, the fuel system (minus an FPR and Walbro) and all sensors are factory 6MT.

When I was running the TL SH-AWD intake manifold and stock bored TB my fuel was perfect. It would sit right at 12.4:1 at high RPM WOT. Once we let it breath, the injectors are saturating so it runs like shit up top. Eventually that will be addressed.

The 3.6l is safe to run on boost/bottle, the 3.7l isn't. As you said, the 3.7l is bored out to the service limit. Unless you spend the money on sleeves, I wouldnt run a 3.7l.

 

Introducing more air caused the engine to run rich? That's strange and I'm not sure I believe it was the intake that caused the problem.

Have you, or anybody else, monitored PCM data stream while driving? What about fuel pressure? What happens at low/high RPM's? I'm very confident that by analyzing data stream you will find a clue as to what's happening.

 

The stock injectors can't keep up with the increased amount of air. By looking at the AFR gauge, you can see that once I hit about 6k rpm, it pegs the gauge at rich and slowly comes back up to ~11.4:1. Thats the stock, tiny injectors sticking open. I am also pulling a bit of timing around 5500rpm, which Im sure doesnt help.

 

On my way home from work right and was watching my wideband and under WOT without spray and after VTEC I just went to 11.2:1. Never watch this damn thing unless I'm spraying so that's honestly news to me. My motor runs perfectly also. Not insult your intelligence but you do know that ECM's will naturally run the motor rich under WOT right? Just a cheap way to ensure that reliability is never sacrificed for performance.

 

Most of them run down to low 12s stock. Arent you running colder plugs?

 

and this is why im thinking those RDX injectors could help even stock CLs ... if you look at any dyno the car is very lean to start then gets very rich ... id say with the RDX injectors and the right FPR we could maintain a much closer to ideal 13.2 ish

 

The issue with running the RDXs without a piggyback (at the least) is when you lower the pressure down enough to not bog, the spray pattern turns to shit.

 

explain this part to me ? lowering the pressure down not to bog ?

 

The RDX injectors flow too much for a bolt-on J. You have to lower the fuel pressure so your not dumping tons of fuel in there.

 

Civic, what's the fuel trim on both banks throughout powerband? Low/mid-range and top end? I know you said its running rich but I'd just like to know...

 

how much too much ?

 

Stock, or my car?

RDXs are 410s IIRC, or 310s......

Stock is 240cc.

 

^^^
Yes, your car. Im trying to understand how swapping a larger intake manifold is truly making your engine run much richer at high revs. I would understand it, due to air physics, cause the engine increase or decrease in power. Can you tell me what your running prior to the problem arising as in engine part specs like block, cams, intake, dtc... Were you running a 2G type S intake? 3G type S cams? You know, those things.

 

When I put down 281/257, that was with the TL SH-AWD intake manifold and a ported stock throttle body. My AFRs were perfect.

When I put down 294/275, that was with the 2G Type S manifold with plenum spacers, MDX air horns, and an 80mm TB and reworked manifold snout. Past 6k the injectors saturate (since they can't keep up with the increased air volume) and viola, instant richening.

Everything else was the same.

 

Ever thought about going the other way with the horns ?
Usally more manifold volume and shorter runners go together for high rpm power.
And longer runners and smaller manifold volume builds low rpm torque.
You have longer runners and larger manifold volume.
You can find more gains with the right combo.

I'm considering to take the type s horns out and kinda make the horns by grinding the actual manifold to give the affect of shorter runners.

I just wish I had a spare manifold incase there was no gains in top end

 

I didn't want high rpm power. It spends most of its time in the 2k-5k range.

 

Hey Richard, I have a used intake manifold I will sell you if you're wanting to try the intake modification.

As for you Civic, I'm assuming because you haven't given me both long/short term fuel trims that you don't know them. Without knowing these, it's impossible to determine exactly what's going on inside that motor of yours. Again, I strongly feel you have another problem elsewhere that's causing this symptom. I could be wrong but I'm basing this off what little engine data you've given.

But damn dude, 300whp is damn nice for that little motor. That's over 50hp per cylinder which is impressive! My 07 Yamaha R1 has 186hp bone stock (factoring ram-air effect) and its what I consider a pretty radical engine. And it's only making roughly, what, 45hp per cylinder?

 

i thought we were 290 ?