scalbert

Boy, did I have a scare. One which should have never occurred and I am working to get that resolved.

I drive the car on Tuesday morning and everything seemed mostly fine. It could have been nothing and my imagination now but something didn’t seem 100%. But the drive home was certainly not fine. The car was idling weird, a bit shaky and rough. Then the CEL light comes on. So I get home and check the code and see misfire codes. No big deal, probably the plugs going south and may have been fouled during some tests I did Monday evening. I was planning on replacing them anyway so thought it was time.

So off comes the SC and then all the plugs, etc. But before I put the new ones in I ran a compression test just to be sure. While all the numbers were basically in the same range as a year ago I did notice something weird which didn't fully register at the time; there was water on the compression test gauge when I ran one of the rear cylinders.

So I button everything up and fire up the car and it is running fine; still a bit shaky but no misfire codes coming up. I jabbed the throttle and it died on the way down. So now I am wondering what else it could be. That is when I notice the intercooler reservoir is half full. I had been messing with stuff and maybe some spilled out at some point, so I thought. I topped it off and went to bed.

The next morning I come out to look and see the reservoir is again half full again and then it hits me; the friggin core is leaking into the manifold. That would explain the shaky idle and misfire codes if the engine was sipping on water as well as air and fuel. But I have to get to a presentation and had a ride to that anyway. Before I left I fired off an email to the supplier of the original core as well as to Bell Intercoolers to get their take on the matter.

I had pulled the cover in the morning and saw the water in the plenum slowly leaking out. When I got home last night I pulled the whole manifold/IC and found that all three rear runners had water standing in them. The fronts looked fine and dry but that wasn't enough and I wasn't going to chance it. So once again off come the blower and all of the plugs are pulled. I had to suck out, using a small tube, all of the water in the runners. I then stuck the tube down in the spark plug holes and sucked out about two mouths full of water out of one of the rear cylinders. The other rear cylinders were dry and all the front runners and cylinders were dry as well. I turned the car over a few times and got out all of the remaining water I could. But there was now not enough to cause any damage as I also used compressed air through the runner and spark plug hole to help dry things up.

Everything went back on including the stock manifold and I fired it up. The car ran perfectly with a solidly smooth idle and no codes at all. I drove it in today and it was running great excluding the fact that I can't get fully on it as I have no intercooler installed.

Had I not noticed the reservoir I would have probably come out, jumped in the car and fired it up thus hydro-locking the engine and destroying parts of it.

I did get a response from both the supplier of the original core and Bell Intercoolers. Gerhard at Bell Intercoolers mentioned that it was probably fatigue of a weld-seam with poor integrity to start with, or a braze-joint cracked. Both of which are defects which should have never happened in this short amount of time, if even at all. He mentioned that they test and warranty the cores they sell.

The response I got from the supplier was not encouraging:

I purchased the core from them without an end tank and they even had drawings of the final complete design. There was never any mention of not having a warranty otherwise I would have looked elsewhere. I raised this very point and am waiting on another response. If it is negative again I will probably go with a Bell core and cut off the Spearco unit and sent it back to them with a proper letter.

In the mean time and concerning the new design, I feel much better after having heard from Gerhard. They would warranty this situation and they even do test to insure that it is not defective when shipped. In addition, I will be doing underwater leak down tests on the current assemblies just to be sure.

I have had liquid/air cores before and this is the first time I have seen or experienced this happening. Liquid/air cores are used all of the time and how is it that I get the one which fails.

Now I need to wait and see how I can get this remedied.

Chemmech

Ouch! Is there a way to pressure check the part for reliability?

scalbert

I have the pressure test design on paper and will implement it this weekend. Guess which one gets done first??

From what I can gather, this is very rare to occur like this. But I will still test as far as possible though.

Chemmech

N.O.6speed

hydrolock would have sucked ass!!

allmotor_2000

Whoa! Careful Scalbert... I have seen many busted cylinders due to coolant getting in somehow. Nice job in determining the root cause It really pays to be very diligent about how the car 'feels' on a day to day basis!!

Chaptorial

Wow man glad to hear you found this out and got it fixed.

Had you not done the compression check and noticed the water do you think you would have caught it otherwise?

mantis23

I wish I had the skills to take an S/C on and off at the drop of a dime, wait, I wish I had an S/C too. Glad you found the problem, that could have been a lot worse than what it was, instead of trying to find a new core, you could be trying to find a new engine.

typeR

steve ...i letf you a message...my friend knows the scrantons real well...but mentioned you might talk to brad the VP didnt remember the last name...

scalbert

However, had the CEL not come on I might not have looked into it in depth that night. I may have said I would wait and check it later only to trash the engine when I started it.

IMO, the CEL is what saved me.

scalbert

Possibly as I often check the reservoir. But the CEL is what really started the whole process.

scalbert

Thanks Steve, I need to get my phone out of the car. I'll wait and see how the regular channels work out first before deciding on the next course of action.

allmotor_2000

Can I be cc'd on this?

But in all seriousness, have you considered a design with a 'catch' area of some sorts - sort of like an oil catch-can, but integrated back into the manifold. You can easily incorporate a drain in the end-tank - probably the intake-side and even tilt the IC somewhat so that if it does leak, it will leak on that side and put a catch-can.

scalbert

I had considered that but there are too many variable. Parking level doesn't always occur

Anyway, this shouldn't have occured in the first place. How many liquid/air IC are in use everyday and most have the possibility. It just doesn't occur.

scalbert

I just got word from the Turbonetics via the supplier that basically they won't do anything considering it was modified. It wasn't actually modified by me, they made the changes and I just had it welded on.

They went on about not being able to warranty my work which is not what I am asking them to do. I am irritated by a flat and imediate denial. Atleast have the savvy and business ethic to issue an RMA for evaluation of the unit and then deny a claim. They aren't even considering it which is contrary to their warranty statement.

Honestly I didn't expect them to supprt a warranty claim. It just annoys me that they don't even consider a possibility of a defect, which is is appearent it was. They flat out deny without evaluating the unit even after knowing the installation from the beginning.

This will be returned along with a certified letter of my disapproval of their handling of this matter.

av6ent

HOLY SHIT, Steve

So whats are the plans to resolve that damn leak?
And I assume Serge's IC shipment will be postponed until the solution

ModAddict

Could the welding have damaged the core?

scalbert

Nope, Serge's shouldn't be delayed. I should have the test rig ready by then. Plus, I am using a different manufacturer who does in-house testing prior to shipment and will stand behind the product, but the product only.

The resolution for me will be to replace the core and scrap the old one. So I will also be using the new design which I like better anyway. I had planned on swapping out at some point to the new design and selling my old one. Guess I will only do part of that.

scalbert

Not likely considering where the leak is located. It is not at an edge, it is in the center and within the unit.

av6ent

Oh, yeah you had the old design not the new one.
But that damn supplier, I hate when they deny without even taking a look to determine whats up.

mattg

wow, that's some scary stuff steve.. i'm glad you figured it out.

Chemmech

Yep, imo, I'd rather blow my engine with NOs than by a water Leak. BTW, will you be offering a place, or way to download maps for the computer? For different configs like NOS etc?

scalbert

Absolutely. Any map changes or additionals will be made available for download.

Allout

So the water injection wasn't intentionally designed in for more HP and a more dense mixture?

Glad the problem didn't do more damage. You're a lucky man. I guess checking the fluid level will become a ritual now.

allmotor_2000

Steve... why not put a water level in your tank?

Chemmech

Great idea, you could wire it to an LED on the dash!

scalbert

It shouldn't need to be checked. How many Liquid/Air IC's are out there. All of Ford's blown vehicles, Cobra and Lightning (not to mention the blown Jag's) use a similar Liquid/Air system which would be very problematic if they leaked. It just shouldn't have occured. My old Typhoon and the Syclone's used a Liquid/Air core and I never heard of a single problem.

I'm upset that I was the one to experience the problem as there have to be some evetually. At the same time I am glad it happened to me instead of someone who I provided a kit to.

scalbert

I had considered that but it shouldn't be a nessesity. It would also only tell you after the fact. You would basially need to watch it before starting the car otherwise it is too late. But it is a consideration and wouldn't be too hard to implement.

SCTL-SS

I'm sorry to hear about this totally "UN-fair" experience. It seems that some manufactures/suppliers are always quick to take your money but extremely hesitant to refund or repair when the need arises.
It looks that the new design also comes from a new manufacture? If so, that is good news in light of your problem. I hope that you get some sort of resolution out of this.

scalbert

Below are pictures of the test rig I made. I submerged them and applied 15 PSI. Both had zero pressure drop over a thirty minute period.

scalbert

Yep, the current one's come from Bell Intercoolers, the initial unit came from Turbonetics/Spearco. Bell Intercoolers, even though they have nothing to do with this problem, have been more helpful. I am certainly glad I am using this one.

In fact, my resolution will be to replace the core assembly I was using with a Bell unit.

Ogolden1

Scalbert, sorry to hear about your troubles - good "save" though!

Hey, I need to pull off my blower so I can get to my cracked header to remove it and get it welded, and to replace my front motor mount, which is totally blown.

I want to remove it in the fastest and easiest way.

When you remove the S/C, are you just removing the allen head bolts that attach the blower to the mount, or are you going all the way down to the base of the mount, behind the EGR, and removing it where it bolts into the side of the head??

scalbert

I removed the PITA allen head bolts. But have developed a decent routine with the aid of several tools. There is a different technique for each bolts and they were based on the available tools.

scalbert

Not suprisingly, I haven't heard back from Turbonetics concerning the request I made for them to evaluate the unit. I do hope I hear from them though, not expecting them to do anything, but just to be professional about the matter.