I read on another forum that someone removed the butterflies on the j32 intake manifold and they noticed a gain in power. What do you guys think? I thought I read somewhere that removing them was a bad idea.

 

i thought they stayed closed for more tq down low and open to allow for better flow at vtec?

 

I thought I heard it will loose tq in low rpm's but, give more hp in higher rpm's.
Where do you want the power at ?

 

i read that also but i think he removed them bc he didnt have the actuator for it and/or the computer for it. one less thing to worry about.

 

If this is the same thread I saw the owner had the IABs in and on the first run had them closed the whole time, then opened them for the next run for the entire time, so of course he is going to see the power gains.

 

ok here is the deal.



http://www.acura-tsx.com/forums/show...php?p=11244982

in the first post i explain what each line is. one run with the butterfly closed all the time

one open all the time
and one functioning correctly (closed low, open high)

u get less power down low with it removed and more power up high with it removed
more power low with it closed, less power high with it closed

best powerband comes from leaving it functional

 

x2, so why remove it while it is still functional

 

Ok I see what your saying. Now lets take the butterflies out and then dyno tune the car with them off so you get a better afr, then what?

 

basically the same as with them just opened, except maybe a hair more topend, but you are still losing that lowend just like before

 

IMHO what difference does it make if it takes (these are general numbers) 28 seconds to get to the limiter or 25?

Especially since I have the J35A4 I say TORQUE FTMFW!!!!

Low end grunt is where It's at again, this is just MHO.

 

Wht is the Intake manifold butterflies?

 

see that electric motor on top of rear valve cover on your motor, then follow that cable to above your power steering pump, that shaft is to the butterflies

 

Dont listen to him, hes blowing smoke up your ass.

You want the truth? The Intake Manifold Butterflies are just that, butterflies in your intake manifold.

See that tube that runs from the front valve cover to the intake manifold? That has a special "sauce" that injects larva into the intake. The larva sticks to the inside of the intake manifold and after a few weeks the butterflies break out of their cocoon. Every time you get on the car hard, they flap their wings really fast which causes a cyclone that allows the air to get into the motor much more effectively. Its an old JDM trick. Heres a picture I was lucky enough to take during my manifold swap. I only had three in there. IIRC CLs have around 6 from the factory, so that would explain why I was down on power.



/red text.

 

hopefully they didnt fly off when u opened the manifold up. that would suck.

 

I think i let mine out when i opened it up a while back.....
DAMN!!!!

 

I sense a new saying similar to "dont let the cat out of the bag"

 

Dyno's don't tell the whole story. You run a dyno at full throttle and measure across the RPM range.

Drivability is across the RPM range at various throttle positions. Many people confuse peak HP vs usable HP.

Keep it functional

 

How do you remove the intake manifold butterflies?

 

WHY???, but really not hard, just remove the top plate in the manifold, and if you cant figure that out from there, you should not be touching a car

 

Is tht just it?
are you talking about the Cover plate or is it under the cover plate?

 

remove the silver cover that is in the middle of your red painted beauty shield, but still WHY???, you lose the wider powerband, with remove it (so less low end torque)

 

Idid tht earlier today and the car jus kept revving up by itself!
And i just want to experiment a lil with it

 

with out the cover installed , or the actually shaft not installed (so butterflie removed)

 

it looks like the pic CIVICDRVR has posted!
itried to turn on the car like tht and it just kept revving by itself!!

 

PLEASE DO NOT F***ING TRY TO WORK ON A CAR AGAIN

 

im am with fries on this one. ur gonna mess up ur car.

 

ty, and let alone if he tries to do brakes or something.

 

 

civicdrivr strikes again....

 

funny my bypass actuator valve lead wasn't grounded for the longest time.... so it never opened. figured it out yesterday, grounded it, it opens now... it pulls much harder... as it should.

 

When I first installed the 09 IM before i worked out the wiring there was a lack of top end pull, after I got it connected it was awesome. I say leave it functional, but as has been said over & over it is your car you can put wagon wheels on it if you like.

 

guys. he is asking what it would be like to remove it. the gains would be like leaving it open. you lose power down low and the top end stays the same.

i know i want my low end back and thats why a tune is up next. i like mine stuck open for fuel reasons

 

Would removing these butterflies effect the idle of the car or screw with the computer?

 

wouldnt and effect on idle, just power.

 

how do you keep it closed?

 

unhook the cable or just disconnect it from the plug

 

yeah just disconnect the IMRC plug. No sense having it open and close all the time if it's not hooked up

 

if its not working and it is closed all the time the car will run richer than normal. about 1-2 points richer. and vtec engagement willl dip into the 10's.

if its not working then leave it stuck OPEN.

only keep it closed if u have boost

 

Why would you only keep it closed if you have boost? Why wouldn’t you keep it open? It has been proven with hard fact that having the IMRC open improves HP/TQ through the top end by 20-30 WHP/WTQ.

With boost, keeping it one way or another makes it easier to tune the A/F for obvious reasons (sudden change in cylinder air fill volume) and those who originally told people to disconnect it were saying so because they thought the supercharged motors that were being blown were from momentary lean conditions created at IMRC or VTEC engagement since the factory ECM doesn’t know how to compensate for a supercharger. The general consensus now is; if you have a way to tune your motor (FIC-6, FIC-8, or EM Blue) then you can dial in the additional fuel at IMRC engagement and eliminate the problem or just remove the plates on the butterfly so power is more linear ONLY with a highly boosted application. A buddy of mine doing some big turbo work with the J32 6MT in New York actually reported that the one butterfly plate tore off the shaft and the other was badly bent and about to come off also at 12psi of boost. This same guy is helping me wrap up the tuning aspect of my supercharger set-up with the FIC-6. It is only a matter of time before we have it cracked. He currently has a turbo J32 6MT running with FIC-6 correctly. FYI- The EM Blue (Emanage Blue) has been proven to work perfectly already by several members when tuned properly on the J32 6MT.

Regardless, this topic has been beaten to hell by many of the old timers here and my conclusion is that if you are running 5psi or less of boost with no tuning, Leave it alone and active or you will lose 20-30 WHP just make sure you don't have any lean spots on a dyno or you will eventually drop a cylinder, likely number 1 or 4. If you are running 6+psi you SHOULD be running some form of Fuel/Ignition control via one of the previously mentioned piggy-back controllers and can either leave the IMRC active and dial in more fuel right at IMRC and VTEC engagement or remove the IMRC plates or zip-tie it open and tune accordingly. The point is, with the butterfly closed you are robbing yourself of 20-30 WHP even with a supercharger and it has been proven on the dyno a few times at several boost levels. At the 10psi of intercooled boost I hope to be running in two-three months I could care less if I lose 15WHP at 3KRPM when I will still be making ~280 WHP/WTQ anyway and 20-30WHP/WTQ more from 4200RPM and up.

Sorry for the rant, I got carried away.
Jim

 

Like Phee is saying, if you disable the IMRC (leaving it closed) and disable VTEC and run the car on a dyno where you can watch the A/F you will see that, from the factory, the ECM dumps more fuel than needed at both engagment points to compensate for the sudden increase in cylinder air fill volume. That sudden increase is exaggerated by the forced-induction and the mapping on the stock ECM simply cant compensate enough to stop knock or detonation and a blown motor.