Imrc !!!

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Feb 29, 2012 | 09:42 PM
  #1  
Blkout19's Avatar
Thread Starter
Instructor
 
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 106
Likes: 3
From: Victorville,CA
Imrc !!!

Had a few of you tell me to check my IMRC cause my car felt slow , turns out it wasn't working .
Zip tied it for now & wow , huge difference , car pulls again & sounds different too .

Hmm now i need a rematch with my buddies cl6 lol
Reply
Old Feb 29, 2012 | 09:54 PM
  #2  
drillzzz's Avatar
Instructor
 
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 109
Likes: 6
From: Ft. Lauderdale, FL
Originally Posted by Blkout19
Had a few of you tell me to check my IMRC cause my car felt slow , turns out it wasn't working .
Zip tied it for now & wow , huge difference , car pulls again & sounds different too .

Hmm now i need a rematch with my buddies cl6 lol
Great stuff! I need to check mine this weekend. How much did the part cost you? Did you do it yourself? Difficulty of fixing?

Heres a video for others that might not know what this part is and how to tell if its functioning properly

Properly:

Improperly:
Reply
Old Feb 29, 2012 | 11:15 PM
  #3  
Blkout19's Avatar
Thread Starter
Instructor
 
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 106
Likes: 3
From: Victorville,CA
Originally Posted by drillzzz
Great stuff! I need to check mine this weekend. How much did the part cost you? Did you do it yourself? Difficulty of fixing?

Heres a video for others that might not know what this part is and how to tell if its functioning properly

Properly: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmvYTt9YLak

Improperly: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T64kfrM74uo
I didn't buy a new one , I just zip tied it open for now .
Reply
Old Feb 29, 2012 | 11:45 PM
  #4  
CL-S progression 01's Avatar
lowrd on tein CS biatch
iTrader: (2)
 
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 4,766
Likes: 138
From: Mississauga
ur losing low end tq by having it stuck open which means ur burning more fuel daily driving
Reply
Old Mar 1, 2012 | 04:16 AM
  #5  
StreetKA's Avatar
Suzuka Master
15 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
iTrader: (8)
 
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 7,108
Likes: 575
Hey thats my video !!
Reply
Old Mar 1, 2012 | 10:51 AM
  #6  
dfv3.2CL-S's Avatar
Burning Brakes
iTrader: (1)
 
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 991
Likes: 8
From: Dallas area
Originally Posted by CL-S progression 01
ur losing low end tq by having it stuck open which means ur burning more fuel daily driving
+1 for this statement.
Reply
Old Mar 1, 2012 | 02:44 PM
  #7  
03CLSMT's Avatar
Instructor
 
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 233
Likes: 8
Originally Posted by CL-S progression 01
ur losing low end tq by having it stuck open which means ur burning more fuel daily driving
Seriously? lol its not losing much tq, and the gains seen by having it open FAR outweigh having it closed...he did mention it was for the time being anyway. Id be surprised if he actually even noticed the fuel difference b/c when I ran my car w butterflies open i didn't notice the difference, half of it was highway.
Reply
Old Mar 1, 2012 | 03:32 PM
  #8  
aznboi2424's Avatar
Suzuka Master
iTrader: (10)
 
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 6,287
Likes: 209
From: Elk Grove, CA
He might not be burning more fuel but there's probably a loss of power at the bottom end when the IMRC is supposed to stay closed, below 3800 RPM. If the OP is feeling enhanced performance, it's at the top end when the IMRC is supposed to open (above 3800 RPM).
Reply
Old Mar 1, 2012 | 03:36 PM
  #9  
CL-S progression 01's Avatar
lowrd on tein CS biatch
iTrader: (2)
 
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 4,766
Likes: 138
From: Mississauga
did i say he should have them closed?

I'd likely leave mine open as well if i were in the same situation because I like acceleration.

but knowing that i would be losing low end pwr it would motivate me to fix it asap... which you should OP
Reply
Old Mar 1, 2012 | 03:50 PM
  #10  
drillzzz's Avatar
Instructor
 
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 109
Likes: 6
From: Ft. Lauderdale, FL
Originally Posted by StreetKA
Hey thats my video !!
haha awesome video! I did a quick search on google after reading the OP post and thats what came up
Reply
Old Mar 2, 2012 | 04:42 PM
  #11  
03CLSMT's Avatar
Instructor
 
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 233
Likes: 8
Originally Posted by CL-S progression 01
did i say he should have them closed?

I'd likely leave mine open as well if i were in the same situation because I like acceleration.

but knowing that i would be losing low end pwr it would motivate me to fix it asap... which you should OP
By only pointing out two negative things in your post what did you think you were implying to the OP?
Reply
Old Mar 2, 2012 | 06:29 PM
  #12  
CL-S progression 01's Avatar
lowrd on tein CS biatch
iTrader: (2)
 
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 4,766
Likes: 138
From: Mississauga
implying is not the same as telling someone what to do. and like i said, it was to educate him about the situation, not to tell him he's wrong.

cause he never talked about replacing it, therefore he should know what its function is and the pros/cons of keeping it open/closed. the decision is his to make.

anyways im done..

hope u do get her fixed OP
Reply
Old Mar 2, 2012 | 11:08 PM
  #13  
jipper's Avatar
Instructor
 
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 153
Likes: 1
From: mobile AL
I checked mine a couple weeks ago. it wasn't working. Then bought one from a junk yard installed it. Pulls a lot harder now but I came to a stop light ran it through the gears full throttle..... now the clutch is slipping.
Reply
Old Mar 3, 2012 | 12:31 AM
  #14  
Blkout19's Avatar
Thread Starter
Instructor
 
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 106
Likes: 3
From: Victorville,CA
Who knows how long it's been broken , I can't help but to have the butterfly open , feels like a whole different car .
When it's close feels like I'm driving a stock non type s lol
Reply
Old Mar 3, 2012 | 12:37 AM
  #15  
Blkout19's Avatar
Thread Starter
Instructor
 
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 106
Likes: 3
From: Victorville,CA
Originally Posted by CL-S progression 01
did i say he should have them closed?

I'd likely leave mine open as well if i were in the same situation because I like acceleration.

but knowing that i would be losing low end pwr it would motivate me to fix it asap... which you should OP
It's nothing I notice in low end , if anything it's faster lol. With it being closed the whole car just feels slow , low, mid , high . Sucks
I did fwy pulls , dead stop , & rolls , with it being open huge difference , car jumps again , as before it'd just ease into power
Reply
Old Mar 3, 2012 | 03:14 AM
  #16  
Palizboy's Avatar
Intermediate
 
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 30
Likes: 0
From: Bay Area, California
This post is gold! Thanks for the clarification.
Reply
Old Mar 5, 2012 | 01:02 AM
  #17  
Palizboy's Avatar
Intermediate
 
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 30
Likes: 0
From: Bay Area, California
Hey, so from this post I actually figured that my IMRC isn't working which is great, BUT I'm not able to find one. Is it called something else?
Reply
Old Mar 5, 2012 | 01:52 AM
  #18  
Blkout19's Avatar
Thread Starter
Instructor
 
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 106
Likes: 3
From: Victorville,CA
Originally Posted by Palizboy
Hey, so from this post I actually figured that my IMRC isn't working which is great, BUT I'm not able to find one. Is it called something else?
Blows , I haven't even looked for one , & have no idea what else to look under
Reply
Old Mar 5, 2012 | 09:15 AM
  #19  
SlickShiftNall6's Avatar
Quarantuning
iTrader: (4)
 
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 545
Likes: 31
From: CT
For those having trouble finding this part:
The IMRC is on the back of the intake manifold on type-s models only. Auto and 6mt are the same.
In the parts catalog its known as the "bypass valve actuator"
Part # is 17151-pfw-j02. Msrp $127
Reply
Old Mar 5, 2012 | 03:54 PM
  #20  
Blkout19's Avatar
Thread Starter
Instructor
 
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 106
Likes: 3
From: Victorville,CA
Originally Posted by SlickShiftNall6
For those having trouble finding this part:
The IMRC is on the back of the intake manifold on type-s models only. Auto and 6mt are the same.
In the parts catalog its known as the "bypass valve actuator"
Part # is 17151-pfw-j02. Msrp $127
It can't just be opened up and fixed ? Has to be replaced ?
Reply
Old Mar 5, 2012 | 04:26 PM
  #21  
CL-S progression 01's Avatar
lowrd on tein CS biatch
iTrader: (2)
 
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 4,766
Likes: 138
From: Mississauga
you know it's worth a shot to pull it apart for sure..

it's probably just an electro magnet in there which when given voltage magnetizes the lever inside the assembly that actuates the butterfly valves. it may be a visible flaw in there but it likely won't be.. so there's no telling..

but i'd pull it apart if it were my car.
Reply
Old Mar 5, 2012 | 04:31 PM
  #22  
Blkout19's Avatar
Thread Starter
Instructor
 
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 106
Likes: 3
From: Victorville,CA
Originally Posted by CL-S progression 01
you know it's worth a shot to pull it apart for sure..

it's probably just an electro magnet in there which when given voltage magnetizes the lever inside the assembly that actuates the butterfly valves. it may be a visible flaw in there but it likely won't be.. so there's no telling..

but i'd pull it apart if it were my car.
Hmmmm. Yeah I know absolutely nothing about that stuff , but I have a buddy that might .
Reply
Old Mar 5, 2012 | 05:51 PM
  #23  
Palizboy's Avatar
Intermediate
 
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 30
Likes: 0
From: Bay Area, California
Originally Posted by CL-S progression 01
you know it's worth a shot to pull it apart for sure..

it's probably just an electro magnet in there which when given voltage magnetizes the lever inside the assembly that actuates the butterfly valves. it may be a visible flaw in there but it likely won't be.. so there's no telling..

but i'd pull it apart if it were my car.
I couldn't last to long without my car working unfortunately. But I'll definitely take apart piece by piece when I get a new one in.
Reply
Old Mar 6, 2012 | 05:01 PM
  #24  
aznboi2424's Avatar
Suzuka Master
iTrader: (10)
 
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 6,287
Likes: 209
From: Elk Grove, CA
It has plastic gears inside that may break off, that's usually why they won't open.
Reply
Old Mar 6, 2012 | 11:17 PM
  #25  
civicdrivr's Avatar
Team Owner
15 Year Member
iTrader: (9)
 
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 36,856
Likes: 8,746
From: VA


Honda went cheap on the IMRC motor.
Reply
Old Mar 7, 2012 | 12:03 PM
  #26  
typeR's Avatar
Senior Moderator
 
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 7,588
Likes: 48
From: Port Richey, FL
Originally Posted by aznboi2424
It has plastic gears inside that may break off, that's usually why they won't open.
i took mine apart ... it flew apart opon opening for whatever reason i was easily able to put it back together ...

long and short it has one big plastic gear... on mine the first two or three teeth had broken off so the motor fires at 3800 but nothing to catch onto to open the butterflies ...

so i shimmed mine to the point of good teeth to grab onto ...


id say this can be easily done with out opening the actuator by adjusting that throttle type cable to put tension on the gear to the point youre starting to open the butterfly manually if that makes any sense ...in addition i think the slack in the cable might account for it breaking in the first place ...it starts to yank it open with no tension then as soon as the slack is removed from the cable it slams on the teeth of the gear ... after my initial repair it never broke again

Last edited by typeR; Mar 7, 2012 at 12:09 PM.
Reply
Old Mar 7, 2012 | 12:09 PM
  #27  
typeR's Avatar
Senior Moderator
 
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 7,588
Likes: 48
From: Port Richey, FL
Originally Posted by Blkout19
It's nothing I notice in low end , if anything it's faster lol. With it being closed the whole car just feels slow , low, mid , high . Sucks
I did fwy pulls , dead stop , & rolls , with it being open huge difference , car jumps again , as before it'd just ease into power
well what youre feeling is the huge difference between the now big loss in low end power to the renewed gain in your top end ...id say this if you drive alot above 3800 by all means leave it open but if not you are loosing a ton on the low end ... my 3.5 couldnt even spin the tires from a stop ...


first try my fix mentioned in the post before this
Reply
Old Mar 7, 2012 | 05:08 PM
  #28  
CL-S progression 01's Avatar
lowrd on tein CS biatch
iTrader: (2)
 
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 4,766
Likes: 138
From: Mississauga
^ I 2nd that
Reply
Old Mar 8, 2012 | 03:59 PM
  #29  
03CLSMT's Avatar
Instructor
 
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 233
Likes: 8
In For The : dyno of butterfly delete vs Stock on same car similar conditions... I might be able to come up with one in a month or so im buying a new IM and taking a dremel to it = D
Reply
Old Mar 8, 2012 | 04:34 PM
  #30  
aznboi2424's Avatar
Suzuka Master
iTrader: (10)
 
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 6,287
Likes: 209
From: Elk Grove, CA
I'm pretty sure there's been a dyno already posted previously with it stuck open, stuck closed and stock.
Reply
Old Mar 12, 2012 | 04:29 PM
  #31  
Blkout19's Avatar
Thread Starter
Instructor
 
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 106
Likes: 3
From: Victorville,CA
Originally Posted by typeR
well what youre feeling is the huge difference between the now big loss in low end power to the renewed gain in your top end ...id say this if you drive alot above 3800 by all means leave it open but if not you are loosing a ton on the low end ... my 3.5 couldnt even spin the tires from a stop ...


first try my fix mentioned in the post before this
True but, the car just feels so weak to drive with it closed , I look like a grandma getting on the fwy .
I don't notice low end power loss , if you want power you're going to be over 3800 RPMS anways , so makes no biggy to me , I prefer it open til I buy a new one
Reply
Old Mar 13, 2012 | 03:28 PM
  #32  
03CLSMT's Avatar
Instructor
 
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 233
Likes: 8
I just dont really get the argument ...POWER > TQ!! If TQ>POWER then tractors would be like ten second rides lol ... 50 hp but like 400-600lbs of tq ...and Hummers would be fast lol!
Reply
Old Mar 13, 2012 | 03:34 PM
  #33  
aznboi2424's Avatar
Suzuka Master
iTrader: (10)
 
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 6,287
Likes: 209
From: Elk Grove, CA
umm more like TQ=POWER:
There's your 10 second tractor.

Last edited by aznboi2424; Mar 13, 2012 at 03:37 PM.
Reply
Old Mar 13, 2012 | 04:16 PM
  #34  
03CLSMT's Avatar
Instructor
 
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 233
Likes: 8
its only because its got a lot more power...find me a truck car whatever with 400-1000lbs of tq and less than 250 whp yes WHEEL HORSE POWEERRRRR is what gets you down the track. IF a car/truck had 1000hp and 100lbs of tq u think it would be slow? NO it wouldnt! but a tractor or truck with 200-300 whp and 600-800lbs of tq is a 14 sec run at best... Reverse those numbers 800whp and 200-300lbs of tq.... which one is going to be faster???? seriously, lets not be naive.
Reply
Old Mar 13, 2012 | 04:31 PM
  #35  
03CLSMT's Avatar
Instructor
 
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 233
Likes: 8
A very good example would be to compare the LT1 Corvette with the last of the L98 Vettes, built in 1991. Figures as follows:

Engine Peak HP @ RPM Peak Torque @ RPM

------ ------------- -----------------

L98 250 @ 4000 340 @ 3200

LT1 300 @ 5000 340 @ 3600


The cars are geared identically, and car weights are within a few pounds, so it's a good comparison.

First, each car will push you back in the seat (the fun factor) with the same authority - at least at or near peak torque in each gear. One will tend to *feel* about as fast as the other to the driver, but the LT1 will actually be significantly faster than the L98
Reply
Old Mar 13, 2012 | 05:00 PM
  #36  
CL-S progression 01's Avatar
lowrd on tein CS biatch
iTrader: (2)
 
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 4,766
Likes: 138
From: Mississauga
best way to imagine it is

TQ is what u can bench press

HP is how fast u can run.

u need both... but it all depends on gearing, weight, traction.. and what the car is going to be doing.

there really is no one right answer..


03cls that is not a good example (no offence) if the numbers were reversed... i.e one had 250HP and 340TQ and the other had 340HP and 250TQ it's be a decent comparison.

but then u can argue the gear ratios are better for one set-up than the other.. u can also argue the that maybe one has more use of the power (tq or hp) due to the avg rev range you;d be in in a race.

then u could argue that in a drag race ur at peak revs, where in a circuit race you need the entire power band to be good..

so u'll never truely have a fair comparison

Last edited by CL-S progression 01; Mar 13, 2012 at 05:05 PM.
Reply
Old Mar 14, 2012 | 01:32 PM
  #37  
civicdrivr's Avatar
Team Owner
15 Year Member
iTrader: (9)
 
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 36,856
Likes: 8,746
From: VA
WTF. This has got to be the most retarded argument Ive read on this site. Horsepower is a measurement of torque. Plain and simple.

For the more complicated folks:



Thats the equation for horsepower. P is power (measured in horsepower), T is torque (in ft-lbs), F is rotations per minute. 5252 is a constant.

Every single dynamometer measures the torque of an engine. The computer then runs that equation and plots the horsepower graph. You cannot get horsepower without torque.

Last edited by civicdrivr; Mar 14, 2012 at 01:40 PM.
Reply
Old Mar 14, 2012 | 01:34 PM
  #38  
StreetKA's Avatar
Suzuka Master
15 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
iTrader: (8)
 
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 7,108
Likes: 575
Lol
Reply
Old Mar 14, 2012 | 03:42 PM
  #39  
03CLSMT's Avatar
Instructor
 
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 233
Likes: 8
Originally Posted by civicdrivr
WTF. This has got to be the most retarded argument Ive read on this site. Horsepower is a measurement of torque. Plain and simple.

For the more complicated folks:



Thats the equation for horsepower. P is power (measured in horsepower), T is torque (in ft-lbs), F is rotations per minute. 5252 is a constant.

Every single dynamometer measures the torque of an engine. The computer then runs that equation and plots the horsepower graph. You cannot get horsepower without torque.

omg, this goes without saying. The argument was about whp vs tq on dyno specs.

I cannot stand when people try to make the argument that their car has more tq than mine therefore faster.

They are measured differently, thats why there is power...ya ya ya anyone who understands hp/tq knows hp = tq x rpm/5252 WE all can agree on that. Horsepower is defined as the amount of energy required to lift 550 pounds, one foot, in one second. From this definition you can see that the components of horsepower are force, distance and time. Distance and time are self-explanatory but force, specifically a twisting force, is what torque is all about.

WHP>TQ straight line speed all things like weight and gearing being equal =)

I really apologize to the OP for hacking the thread lol hope I atleast entertained a few ppl!!

Have a great day all.
Reply
Old Mar 14, 2012 | 05:36 PM
  #40  
civicdrivr's Avatar
Team Owner
15 Year Member
iTrader: (9)
 
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 36,856
Likes: 8,746
From: VA
Originally Posted by 03CLSMT
They are measured differently, thats why there is power...ya ya ya anyone who understands hp/tq knows hp = tq x rpm/5252 WE all can agree on that. Horsepower is defined as the amount of energy required to lift 550 pounds, one foot, in one second. From this definition you can see that the components of horsepower are force, distance and time. Distance and time are self-explanatory but force, specifically a twisting force, is what torque is all about.
I still dont think you get it, and unfortunately, I cannot put it into words as well as this article has - which incidentally enough, is where you got your Vette comparison. Way to cherry pic the facts, btw

First of all, from a driver's perspective, torque, to use the vernacular, RULES :-). Any given car, in any given gear, will accelerate at a rate that *exactly* matches its torque curve (allowing for increased air and rolling resistance as speeds climb). Another way of saying this is that a car will accelerate hardest at its torque peak in any given gear, and will not accelerate as hard below that peak, or above it. Torque is the only thing that a driver feels, and horsepower is just sort of an esoteric measurement in that context. 300 foot pounds of torque will accelerate you just as hard at 2000 rpm as it would if you were making that torque at 4000 rpm in the same gear, yet, per the formula, the horsepower would be *double* at 4000 rpm. Therefore, horsepower isn't particularly meaningful from a driver's perspective, and the two numbers only get friendly at 5252 rpm, where horsepower and torque always come out the same.
If we delve deeper into that article, to where the Vette comparison shows up, you'll see this bit of useful info:

First, each car will push you back in the seat (the fun factor) with the same authority - at least at or near peak torque in each gear. One will tend to *feel* about as fast as the other to the driver, but the LT1 will actually be significantly faster than the L98, even though it won't pull any harder. If we mess about with the formula, we can begin to discover exactly *why* the LT1 is faster. Here's another slice at that formula:

Horsepower * 5252
---------------------- = Torque
RPM


If we plug some numbers in, we can see that the L98 is making 328 foot pounds of torque at its power peak (250 hp @ 4000), and we can infer that it cannot be making any more than 263 pound feet of torque at 5000 rpm, or it would be making more than 250 hp at that engine speed, and would be so rated. In actuality, the L98 is probably making no more than around 210 pound feet or so at 5000 rpm, and anybody who owns one would shift it at around 46-4700 rpm, because more torque is available at the drive wheels in the next gear at that point.

On the other hand, the LT1 is fairly happy making 315 pound feet at 5000 rpm, and is happy right up to its mid 5s redline.

So, in a drag race, the cars would launch more or less together. The L98 might have a slight advantage due to its peak torque occurring a little earlier in the rev range, but that is debatable, since the LT1 has a wider, flatter curve (again pretty much by definition, looking at the figures). From somewhere in the mid range and up, however, theLT1 would begin to pull away. Where the L98 has to shift to second (and throw away torque multiplication for speed), the LT1 still has around another 1000 rpm to go in first, and thus begins to widen its lead, more and more as the speeds climb. As long as the revs are high, the LT1, by definition, has an advantage.
http://www.hondahookup.com/info/hors..._vs_torque.php
Reply



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:24 AM.