I just inspected the dyno chart more closely at ACP for the '01 CL-S, and maybe it's just me but did anyone else notice the real gains only occured at 5800rpm+?

You really gotta push the car to even get to a noticeable gain in hp. I guess it all just depends on how often you WOT the car, as to how justifiable $1100 for headers will be for you.

I think I might as well just get exhaust and the RES (if that ever comes out) since at least I can hear the exhaust ALL the time and the RES is only ~$300.

I guess I just can't see spending $1100+ for headers that really only help you when the car is well into VTEC land.

Maybe if I get a chance to race someone at the meet this weekend who has headers and can see the real world performance gain (instead of just silly dyno charts) I would better appreciate their usefulness.


Oh and here's the chart. I colored in the gains a little.

 

in my opinion Not worth 1100..
For the 1100 I would rather get nice 18's to roll on in the summer.
Pushing your car to V-tech all the time = bad tranny/.

 

yup...kinda sux, don't it?? for weekend drivers, like me (hardly drive during the week), it's a no brainer...the RES is an interesting concept since it can boost throughout the RPM band and costs approx 33% of the headers

 

yeah... but the question that remains is...
Where is hell is the RES???

 

My feelings exactly.
I was really thinking about getting Headers for the 6-Speed, but they’re not worth 1,300 (installed) for those type of gains.
32-HP sounds impressive, but not the way it’s delivered.

For right now, I’m only going with Springs, Sways & 18’s on the new car.

I’m sure a bunch of header owners will be jumping in here defending their purchase, but I just don’t feel headers are worth more then 700-800 (installed).

And YES, I can afford them.....Just not worth it !!!!

Shawn S

 

Headers only make a difference on the highway, and track.

 

I don't plan on keeping the car for over another year most likely.


The headers are pointless. You have to be RUNNING the piss outta the car to get the maximum potential that they throw down.


So you have to be pushing redline to get the full power.


Wonder if that RES thing will ever come out?

Plus, when you wanna sell the car, the majority of buyers want to buy a Type S without mods.

You'll have to go back to the garage, and get them taken off, then sell them on ebay for about $500 less than what you bought them for.

It doesn't make sense to me, from an economical standpoint.

Since I like speed so much, I think I'll get a new //M3 next.

A Type S is built for looks, definitely NOT speed.

 

On the other hand, Mike'S famous dyno showed gains all accross the range... Something like RES. Mike'S engine torque jumped by at least 15 lbft all across...

See here...

 

GEEEZ. With the way you guys talk it's like saying VTEC is
worthless. It only adds 30 hp in the high end.
$1300 bucks installed is a stupid high price. But, power is power.
Vtec controllers and denso super plutonium spark plug superchargers.
That's stupid money.

 

I think this looks pretty good. Where does the tach drop when the transmission shifts anyway? I tould think for the new M6 the tach would never drop much below 5K. $1100 for good quality stainless headers is not that unreasonable.

-Nick

 

By looking at the above Dyno graph, what can be done to get the torque stay above 185 lbft all the way from 6000 rpm to the redline?

 

you've been a member for how long and you just realized this?

get the comptech exhaust... its definitely worth every penny.

 

You plan on driving your car in 5k+ rpm all the time? It'll be in the shop more than on the road.

I don't doubt the quality of the headers, and I think they look really sexy, but I just can't justify $1100 + install for minimal gains through 75% of the rpm range. And on top of that, the gains are in the top 25% of the rpm range - the portion least used.

 

But remember, a car is not an investment when used for personal transportation. It is all $$ wasted. A Ford Focus or Honda Civic would suit the intended purpose of personal transportation but we chose to get something a bit more elegant and sophisticated because it was within our means.

So to add $1000 to get some more power isn't significant to many. People spend way more on audio equipment and larger rims which all slow the car. You could make an argument that they should have just got a less powerful car to begin with since the main objective is not acceleration. But once again, maybe they wanted that little extra and was within their financial limits.

Most mods done are to give a bit more power and set them apart from 90% of the others driving the same car. There are no financial benefits; a car is a depreciating asset on its own.

Also remember, there are many people who could by a faster, better handling or more luxurious car but chose the CL since they would not feel right putting 20k miles a year on a $50k car. Or maybe they don't feel the need or shouldn't show their income level to co-workers so a modest $32k car is fine. Or maybe they want multiple vehicles and a nice house (I personally find it pathetic to own a $50k car and live in an rented apartment)...

But the desire to get more power is there and the income is there to support it so dropping $1k for significant power increase, regardless of the location in the rev band, is nothing.

 

Actually not all cars depreciate in value. Just 99% of them.

Corvettes used to make worthwhile long-term investments, as well as Ferraris.
And of course we all know what happens when a car gets starred in a movie *cough* Supra *cough* , although that happens to be an amazing car so it sort of deserves it.

Anyway, a lot of what you say is valid, but it's just your opinion. Mine is still that $1100 is too much for a mod that offers:

 

Least used RPM range, very true. But most power increasing mods are not utilized most of the time anyway. When crusing on the highway or in traffic no mods are of real benefit. It is only at WOT where the benefits are seen and who drives at WOT and tries to keep the revs down??

The power is there with the headers when you need it and doesn't affect anything when not using it. In fact, it might actually help fuel economy when crusing due to reduced back pressure, so think of it a a fuel economy investment.

 

Good point, but again price vs. performance. An average of 3-4hp for 75% of the rpm range just doesn't cut it for me. It may for you.

 

Very well put sir!

 

We all certainly have different views of value and assess our needs differently. Which in the end keeps life interesting when you meet new people cause I know it would be boring to talk to myself.

 

add res to the headers and the two combined = a worthwhile investement

 

Is there anything that we can do to increase torque? Now that would make driving more fun!!

 

Scalbert, this is to you directly. I agree with you . A car is not an investment(it depreciates), but so does everything else that people put money into. You buy anything short of a house and you are losing money. Try selling a Big screen TV, CD player, anything for the amount that you payed and I doubt you will be able to get your intial investment back(unless you meet a sucker). The true judgement on if headers are worth the price depends on the utility the investor recieves from his purchase. Utility can be anything that profits it's owner(fun, bragging rights, speed, anything that gives them benefit). So really as with all things it is up to the individual to set his value for such a good. (1200 is too much to me when compared to RES,MM2, CAI) These 3 together give you the same gain as heads with about a $500 difference in price.

 

This is SO true.

I just spent 1,300 dollars on two Subwoofers and an Amp for my Home Theater last month.
Coincidentally, the EXACT same price headers would have cost me.

Some may call me wasteful, but I enjoy my Theater System every weekend and sometimes during the week too.
I get my enjoyment out of it whenever I fire up a DVD.

Headers will only impress their owner when you’re pulling away in a close race or banging off the redline.
This is something I rarely do in my cars.

It’s a personal decision, so please let everyone decide if they’re worth it for themselves.

Shawn S

 

If you've got the extra money to burn, I'd do it, otherwise, wait until you have it to burn.

 

Way back in the day, Mike & I did a head to head comparison of my car w/ CT headers only (5k on the odo) while he was stock (more than 5k miles). Thru 2nd gear, I was barely ahead, but once in 3rd I definitely started to pull on him.

Also, on that day, we used G-tech to measure our 0-60. The difference was about 0.15sec (6.38 vs. 6.5x). We didn't do any 1/4 mile test due to the length of the road. But headers definitely help out...just very little until getting into high speeds (80+).

 

Easy for you to say.

Was anyone here not letting others decide for themselves?

 

The same old arguments like, " you can only use them in VTEC ", and this newest, " they're only good at the track or highway " !!! I had to re-read that one. Jesus, i hope you're getting into VTEC, and where else would you use them. I use the power of the headers alot, that's why i got them.

 

the car really doesn't have much power until vtec hits anyway. save your pennies boys cuz the headers are worth it. mm & mm2 gains mean shit until they are available.

 

i agree with u totally..again the cheap fuckers talk shit about putting out a gee for the headers...if u dont want to buy them cool...but dont down play the shit.....same cheap people who wont buy the SC when it comes out....dont bother replying on my words like last time...cuz i didnt mention names (zaino clone with need to part from his non-moded ride..nasty gold trim)

 

That would be ME

 

I should remove my spare, my backseat, and have a quarter tank just to mess with you. j/k

 

well, it's not the headers fault for the small gains, its our car being gas economical at lower RPMs which is why the gains aren't until you WOT the car

 

Obviously talking about me.
I’m not quite sure what I did to piss on your party in the past, but it’s hardly worth the typing effort to argue.
If you’re calling me CHEAP, you obviously don’t know much about me at all buddy.

Shawn S

 

AHAHAHAHA AHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHA

:wackit:

 

But you would take the ass raping on trading in your 5spd for the 6spd..

 

Why so much bitching? The stock car it self produces the 260HP at 6100 RPM and the 232 lb-ft of tq at 3500 to 5800 RPM. Why now is the header producing 13 to 32HP beginning at 5800 and ending at 6600 RPM is so bad now? the car is set up like that from the manufacture and yes it will only be noted with fast accelarations of the line and short races, on the highway the car noramlly idles around 3000 RPM in 5th so you would hardly notice any gains. This mod is good for the people that race there cars on the weekend and are laying tires and wasting gas in every corner due to fast acceleration.

 

put the ez glide next to the sorry gold trim kit and the stock ride...i think i want a 6 speed..peace i should just leave it alone....oh wait someone is tring to steal my home entertainment system.....

 

Sounds like your 1100.00 should go toward and Cobra or SS Cam if you want cheap HP gains at low RPM.....

 

What the car has stock has no bearing on the fact that the increased performance from the headers only occurs noticeably in the top 20-25% of the rpm range, which is all that matters when you're considering dropping $1100 on a mod.

 

It does not matter whatever mod you decide to install on your car, you are not going to be able to change the HP and torque delivery curves that are pre tuned by the manufacture, unless you play with timming, which can change in some way the HP curves but then you lose at top end, which is how our CL-S is setup to deliver it's HP . Anyway it's difficult task to do these changes without specialized tools.

So conclusion is that whatever mod you add to any car you will gain HP and Torque wherever the sweet spot for that specific engine is. In other words the CL-S will gain all the peak HP and torque in the high RPM.

I have a modded 98 Jetta VR6 w(184.92 WHP) with many items that I wish I could put on my CL-S, but since the aftermarket suppliers are not so manyfor acura there is no need for competitive prices for the mods