rick

I have a '03 CL/S which as a weird hesistation. From a cold start, if I can get to about 70 within the first 2 minutes, it hesitates -- it feels like the fuel cuts off or something between 60 and 70. For a half second, it feels like it is losing power, then has no power for another second or so, then lurches ahead another second later. This is either a fuel problem (cheap gas) or a tranny problem between 4th and 5th. My '90 camry w/ 200K miles gets a similar feeling when cold but when starting from a stop. The camry always does this when cold but is fine when warmed up. Has anyone seen something similar on the acura? Does it just need a techron chaser to clean out the sheetz, or does it look like i'm heading to tranny pergatory?

SilverBullet_RENAMED

70mph in the 1st 2 minutes? Man your car will be luckly to last long at all!

Let the car warm up and be easy on it for the 1st couple minutes, no highway speeds.

rick

I've had the camry for 200K miles and do not have problems taking it onto the highway after one stoplight. There are usually soccer moms in minivans in front of me, so i'm not talking high rate of acceleration. If the camry lasts 200K and is still strong with few problems under similar conditions, the acura should be able to take it as well.

I probably drive this car "nicer" than most acura owners, avg about 24 mpg and occasionally hit 30. From what i've seen here most owners have trouble getting over 20mpg showing they tend to have it floored all the time.

SilverBullet_RENAMED

I normally get 23 city, haven't really been on straight highway yet to test that. I don't drive hard either, but I am usually very easy on the car, not going over 3k when I first take off, because the tranny just shifts way to rough the first few take offs. The manual also says stay out of vtec will car is at normal operating temperature. So I rarely hit Vtec anyways.

Was just some advice.

EricL

Wait at least 5-10 minutes before pretending you're a Saturn V rocket (unless being chased by maniacs)...

The water temp comes up pretty quick. However, it takes a few minutes (depending on outside temp) to get the engine, water temp, oil temp, and ATF temp up to operating temperatures.

You don't need to over idle, but it doesn't hurt to give the car a break while it comes up to operating temperature…



$0.02

KavexTrax

rick

Moon rockets? I wish. I'm just talking about getting on the ramp to the freeway and merging normally with minivans all over the place. Stuff that even the minivans themselves can do. Has anyone felt hesitation at speed like this? I've probably used 2/3 sheetz gas, and the rest chevron/texaco. All piss gas. Do i just need a nice techron chaser?

All automatics are a bit slow when cold, but i'm not referring to this -- not stomping hard enough for that.

Fabvsix

Why don't you try this Rick. Tomorrow morning, wake up and start running like hell down your street.......................and see how you feel, as opposed to stretching "before" excercising ! Basically, I drive easy for the first mile to allow the car to warm up, just like EricL said. This car does NOT do well, jumping in, and hauling ass from the get go, and if you do, you will experience vibrations etc.... until everything come to operating temperature ! My car has done this since day one. I believe the torque converter has to warm up to align itself with the transmission. This was told to my by my personal HONDA mechanic !

EricL

NO!

However, what I'm trying to point out is: the car is not going to reach operating temperature for a while. So, if your talking about a cold start, you can have the water temperature sitting at "normal", but the block and heads can still be very cold (depending on ambient temperature and how long it has been sitting). If they are cold, the transmission’s ATF is even colder…

Are you sure that the minivans are also "cold"?

So, with the "awful" traffic in my area, it still takes me about 5-10 minutes to get to my closest onramp (3 to 4 miles) and the car will happily scoot up the ramp.

It might be "helpful" to qualify the problem (for the dealer, or people here) if you could find out what makes the problem go away (what if you wait 5 minutes, or 7 minutes, or 10 minutes?)

The transmission’s cooler is actually a warmer/cooler and it is very small – it is the size of a hockey puck.. It is called a "warmer" in the Acura Service manual. It relies on the engine coolant being up to temp to heat the gooey transmission fluid. And it can only start warming up the ATF AFTER the coolant is already up to normal operating temp. Then, this little cooler needs to bring all the fluid in the transmission up to temp. (It isn't going to be up to temp in 2-minutes from a cold start).

So, at a minimum, you may have something marginal, and it would be useful, to know how long it takes for the "problem" to go away at a given temperature…

rick

I got the problem again today, but much slower, but still one light after starting. This time I was only going about 35. Both times it occured while easing on the gas once reaching speed. No rough shifts or those funky shifts where you feel two parts to the shift. Today I noticed the tach it stayed around 750 during the lurch -- a bit slow for going 35 but nothing unusual for the car). Both times it happened at around 70 degrees, about 2 minutes after starting the car. Normally I cannot hit a freeway so fast unless really lucky. I only hit one of the 6 lights; its normal to hit 6 for 6.

EricL

What does the dealer say?

Would you mind keeping a small notebook around and idle for 2, 3, or 4 minutes before leaving and logging the outside air temp (as shown on the instrument cluster) at start-up, the water temp gauge position when moving off, and the time interval? (This is totally optional, but at least you could “bracket” the problem and impress a mechanic or dealer that isn’t a turkey!)

The more information you collect, the more serious the people at the dealer will take your issue (or if they don’t, they at least have a pretty good set of guidelines to reproduce the problem)..

The tranny may have nothing to do with the problem, or it could be that there is something marginal.

This is kind of like diagnosing a virus and/or cold by long distance telephone….

Keep us posted…

rick

Eric, the whole reason I asked here was to try to get more information. Its pretty hard for anyone to diagnose something like "oh it kinda hesitates when starting cold". I was hoping someone here saw a similar problem to help narrow it. The first thing I"m going to try is a different brand of gas (non-sheetz). I'm also going to try using sportshift when its cold, so I can see if it happens during the 4-5 shift or of it is independant. I also want to try with the A/C off (so far I've only seen it with A/C on). The a/c cycles, so it engaging may cause a sinking feeling. I want to compare tach readings at similar conditions with and without the lurch. Once I can figure out how to make it do it frequently, then I can take it in so they have hope of seeing it when they can only do a morning start or one more start in the afternoon. If its tranny related I suspect it has something to do with the torque converter, because I've always felt torque converters in automatics locking/unlocking at low RPMs. Otherwise I suspect its fuel/ignition related -- the engine really stalls for a second.

I've felt something very similar in the toyota after driving about 30 miles on the freeway, then stopping at a light at the end of an off ramp. The engine would really almost stall just before finishing stopping, tach jumping around 200 and lurching like a stick would by stopping without engaging the cluch. The fuel system cleaner used by a local garage would cure this problem for 3000-5000 miles, but gumout had no effect. Common denominator: sheetz gas.

louisn

Mine hesitates once a day on same spot in the road at the same time. Usually 4-5 minutes after starting out in the morning on a slight bump. Maybe it's something to do with the computer switching to another mode after engine reaches temperature or grade logic. Mine has done it for 2 years. It's weird.

EricL

Rick,

Check out this link with some 6-speed folks noticing some funny cold running behavior...

Possible help (I don't know, but thought maybe you guys could compare notes)...

http://www.acura-cl.com/forums/newreply.php

rick

Wires

My guess is it's a firmware problem with the computer when it switches from open loop (cold cats) to closed loop (normal run mode).

My '03 6 speed does the same thing. I started a thread on this and from the replies it affects the autos as well.

My dealer's fix was to reset the computer, but that did the big nothing.

EricL

TRY this:

http://www.acura-cl.com/forums/showt...threadid=79142

allmotor_2000

Wires is correct here. The open-loop/closed-loop issue has a couple of effects from what I recall:

(1) Redline is about 2-3K rpm lower
(2) IAC (Idle Air Control) valve is open (affects how the throttle-body lets air in upon initial startup) - only rising coolent temperature will close the IAC
(3) Fuel mixture, etc. is mapped differently

My $0.02 here:

Just keep it under 3K rpms for the first two minutes... at least until the temp guage read about 60% yo 70% of its regular (at-temp) reading and then do what you will.

EricL

I think he was right around the cusp of 2-minutes, and even with the water temp at or near normal, the ECU could still be "open loop". So, at the very worst, what could it hurt to just take an extra few minutes (around the block/whatever) one day to make sure the engine is actually "warm" (warmed-up)

I've gotten a good whiff from my tailpipe in the first minute or two AND it smells like a poorly tuned school bus (cold cat + tons of pollutants[CO/HC] == forget about closed loop).