It takes approximately 54 (well, more like 54 1/4) to blow the bottom end out of a J32A2 motor...

 

Impressive ?

 

so i called it?

 

It gives a good reason to get things rollin' with the 3.5 build. I've already left a message on my builders voice mail, lol.

I'm amazed it lasted past 25 bottles TBH...

 

Is that a rod bearing I see poking out the side of my block?

 

Well done, sir!

 

Thanks man, I consider 54 bottles on a STOCK J32A2 motor a grand accomplishment!

And now, back to the story...



Hole in the bottom of oilpan...



Would like to see inside?



It appears that cylinder 3 connecting rod broke in half. The bottom half is still attached to the crankshaft and the upper half was stuck inside the front of the block and also broke away from piston itself. Before breaking in half, it slung around inside the crankcase knocking holes all the way around. This would be the second time I've seen this happen to a motor.

As they always say, the connecting rod is the most important part of the rotating assembly and is generally what breaks/bends first. The two I've seen break failed at the upper rod bearing which is the weakest part of the rod.

 

Ah, so clearly your motor was on it's last leg on the dyno.. Just to reiterate many's opinions

 

it was the dyno operator's fault

 

There were faults yes...and doubts. Why wouldn't you question anybody's lack of competence? As for the motor, the result of the engine failing was expected but the power never lowered below a detectable level. Which leads me to believe that this fault was caused by a pre-existing mechanical malfunction (stressed/weak rods) that was not affecting power like say low compression and only say that because no signs were ever seen or felt nor did I see anything unusual on my monitoring gauges. I have recently acquired another 03 TL-S and it's performance was in close relation (but below) the power of this motor that failed. For someone to say that mileage caused weak dyno numbers, then no one here would be pulling above 200hp on dyno pulls. If anyone wants to say extensive and heavy nitrous use affected the numbers, then why was the car above in performance than the 03 TL-S I have?

And remember people that this was inevitably supposed to happen hence the title of the thread itself is named "how MANY bottles does it take to BREAK". It was solely to have fun with and show myself as well as the members of this forum engine capabilities and strength with using nitrous on a factory motor along with properly caring/maintaining it.

 

BRUTALOUCH
That's what happens after last call, one bottle over !

 

Are you sure there was not a malfunction of the nitrous system? Just saying. Last time I saw a rod like that it was in a Datsun that got spun upto about 8500 rpm.

You should just remove that piston and rod and jb weld the holes in the block and rock the 5 cylinder like me! lol

Oh, how much were you spraying on it anyways?

 

The final shot that I ended up with and ran for over 20 bottles was 330hp. If you mean "malfunction" as in something caused the engine to run too lean, very doubtful. I was purposely jetted rich at 10-10.5:1 and had my eyeballs glued to the AEM A/F gauge everytime I pressed the button. I'm certain the reason for failure was due mostly from the ability to adjust timing and unknowingly doing so.

 

Ok, so you were spraying a 330hp shot? Or your total combined output motor + spray was eqal to 330 hp? Either way I bet that was a blast! No pun intended.

 

330hp on spray only yes.

And yes, it was literally a blast!

 

Holly Mother of God! (Ramathorn) That is crazy man. I'm very impressed that the J32a2 held up to that kind of abuse for so long!

 

Wait till you see the next one. Paul should be getting that motor sometime today...

 

Robert,

Your thoughts on going through the pain in the ass of a direct port vs a dual throttle body 125 zex wet setup for use on my custom velocity stacked dual tb manifold? I'm wondering if it would be worth the extra effort, as I have already gone to great lengths ensuring airflow to the last 2 cylinder banks is improved over the oem mani's.

 

More details and pics of your intake manifold. Is yours a modified 3.5 or 3.7 manifold? Or did Paul make one for your too.

 

so what exactly failed on the motor?

did the rod snap and blow out.. did a bolt or bolts fly loose and ram through the bottom end??

just curious... as i am not familliar enough to derive wtf i am looking at/ how it happened via the pictures?

thanks chief... oh and good job bud, now i cannot say j32A2 motors are indestructable. I'm gonna have to say they are impervious except there was this one guy .... LOL

hats off to you bud.. i think u made ur mark around here on this forum :-)

 

Definitely worth the effort involved in using a direct port setup. Any motor that has had both large amounts of time and money (not to mention pride) should not be fed nitrous through any other passage except those that lead to each individual cylinder. This is for obvious reasons of ensuring that each cylinder is supplied equal amounts of both fuel and nitrous. This is not only good for safety concerns but better for performance as well.

As for the the manifold, assuming that it's effective in supplying starved cylinders additional airflow, you have already started to combat the biggest obstacle any nitrous user faces. Unless you're running ITB's, you either rely on the intake manifolds effectiveness in air distribution or make your own enhancements to ensure this happens. Because there's no way to determine exactly how much airflow each cylinder is being fed, this is impossible. There's so many factors involved outside of the IM and I'd have to say that the biggest is internal engine dynamics such as: cylinder pressure variance, valve leakage, cylinder head flow characteristics, etc...

IMO, aviation engines have supplied a nitrous users best weapon in fighting this problem. I'll explain: there's one thing that changes when uneven amounts of air or fuel are added to individual cylinders. That would be the amount of heat it creates. Aviation mechanics had to deal with altitude issues and the problems that can affect proper AF ratios. That's when the ideal of an EGT monitoring system was developed and helped to alleviate the issue by allowing the AF ratio to be either monitored and/or controlled by watching each cylinders heat output and then making fuel adjustments in accordance. I would highly recommend looking into a EGT monitor for your motor and feel free to push that motor to its limits! A quick google search I found a 6 cylinder EGT monitoring system for almost $550. Using this along side a duel wideband AF meter setup and other common safety switches/devices it would be hard have ANY issues at all with heavy nitrous use.

Btw, I'd love to see what nitrous does on a J with a cam big enough to move some air. Your nitrous would hit very hard due to low airflow resistance. Take my advice and don't run a purge kit. The nitrous vapor in the lines will actually give you a needed "transistion lapse" that you'll need to protect the drivetrain from any hard blows. And check out my dual bottle setup. Sure you carry an extra 10lbs of gear but you have minimal pressure loss between sprays.

 

Lmao, I actually removed the oilpan about a week ago and finally got to see what happened. Very interesting... The rod was broke in half with a pretty nasty bend on the tip of the half that was still attached to the crank. It was also seized to the crankshaft and would not budge even with a 3ft pry bar against it. After laughing at this for 2 minutes, we looked inside the cylinder and found the piston at the utmost part of the cylinder deck with what appeared to be a dislodged valve poking its face out the bottom of the piston top. There were also about 15-20 pea sized metal fragments inside the oilpan. Clearly the result of of long term detonation that weakened the rod. This would also be the cylinder that received most of the nitrous. Most of which was possibly a mixture of both liquid nitrous and raw fuel considering the amount of spray it was on.

And it's an honor to have beat the shit out of something referred to as "indestructible". ;-)

 

Thanks for the response man...it has reassured me. I really only have one other concern with the direct port setup. If i choose to put the nozzles in the oem lower runners (versus a little further upstread in my tubular manifold runners) then I am concerned that there will be a lack of room between the front and rear runner banks to fit even the tightest radius hard line after you factor in overall nozzle/fitting length. Have you mocked this up yet? I caught your pics showing how the nozzles look when places in their threaded holes, but it still looks "iffy" on clearance from memory...

Highest complements man. We may need to chill sometime when our builds are done. lol

 

I'm in the process of plumbing my direct port kit. I'm using annular style nozzles and placing them on my p2r plenums so they spray right into the velocity stacks. I'm also switching out the OEM stacks for mdx ones so they are closer to each nozzle. This way it will make it easier to do jet changes. I don't have the hood clearance for a spacer between the upper and lower runners.

 

I only mocked my direct port system on a J35A6 (same as your A8) with the modified intake spacer I showed in that thread. My next idea was to the same as you're considering and as far as I could see, it would've been a feasible task. I have utter confidence that by using the smaller 1/16" nozzles along with proper runner placement and angle, it would happen. Because of the dual TB custom intake Paul is making for me, that idea was thrown out. I bought a V6 direct port plumbing kit off EBay for $300 and the best wet nozzles I could find: DynoTune. If you're worried about using them in the lower manifold runners, do what I did: mill down the spacer and then tap it. And FYI, I still have the one shown in the thread and have it listed for sale in the BM if interested. All work was high quality and professionally done by a CNC machinist. Let me know...

Btw, what's the planned amount of spray that you will be using on the motor? I'm sure you're aware but that 13.5 CR will require the use of a water/meth setup if you don't want your heads becoming a mess of molten aluminum, LOL.

 

I was steering away from placing the direct port nozzles in a spacer for two reasons initially. The first reason which I discovered was hood clearance issues with my new dual TB manifold. I got around that problem by planning on tapping/threading nozzle holes into a custom 10mm thich aluminum flange which would function primarily as a base for the manifold. Then, however, I found there was also an issue with clearance of the fuel rails/injectors. Therefore, I thought that the better (and only?) method for implementing direct port nitrous would be to place them in the lower runners using 90 degree firing nozzles. Is this not what you're still planning on doing? I see no other way around it. *poop*

Im wanting to spray a 125-150 shot. Any reason this should be a problem? Yes, the compression will be lowered to 12.3:1 to combat some of this using different heads. I may also resort to meth but will try on my 104 leaded mix. Cylinder pressure in PSI at that CR isn't that crazy in NA form prior to Nitrous. Is your concern around component strength, or just heat?

 

I'm not sure if you caught it or not but I had the spacer milled approximately 1/2" on each side (top and bottom) thus effectively decreasing its height by 1 inch total. Surely there's space for another inch or so underneath the hood...don't forget to factor in powertrain flex when inspecting this. If that's not a viable option and you insist on installing the nozzles in the lower manifold, it's just a matter of angle and nozzle placement. I seen the nozzles in your PM and those appear to be an excellent choice of design...definitely a proven brand as well! One thing that always concerned me about installing the nozzles so close to the combustion chamber (especially with a wet system) is effectively being able to atomize the fuel quickly enough to avoid any degree of hydralocking a cylinder. It's often mentioned to be careful of this and the solution is to run a dry system and actually have the EFI supply the needed fuel during a WOT engagement or switch signal to the standalone unit. Not sure if yours has this option but I would agree if you plan installing them that low in the intake system. Also important to note that the injectors will be large enough to handle that demand....obviously. I'm actually installing my nozzles in the tubing of the dual TB intake itself for this exact reason but feel like the spacer would be an acceptable distance IMO.

As for the solution of lowering your CR for the addition of nitrous...SMART! And yes, I believe a CR that high (regardless of fuel/ignition management and safety systems) wouldn't be very smart on an expensive motor as yours. Not saying that it wouldn't work and give you more power. Your cylinders would be operating in an extremely volatile environment and would drastically decrease engine life to race engine life expectancy.

 

This may sound stupid but do you still have this car and building it? Just curious since you've been talking about your accord lately.

 

Yep, still have her. Funny you ask Fox. I get the motor back tomorrow. But I've got to rest man, the Accord swap was ALOT of work! ;-)

 

Anyways guys I definately wanna run nitrous now ....

 

Bottles are for babies.

Thats pretty impressive though. I honestly didnt think a stock bottom would last that long.
Looks to me like op had an oil pan failure, it failed to keep the rod inside.

 

That was CLEARLY the case here. Stupid random oil pan holes!

 

Bottles for mas power ,

Maybe I could run a small shot and not have problems.

 

I firmly believe that any engine that's in good/excellent mechanical condition can safely run a 25-50hp shot with no repercussions at all. Be sure and use ONLY premium pump gas...even if its not recommended by the manufacturer.

 

My opinion I think these engines can easily hold a 100 shot on 93 pump gas with one step colder plugs for a longgggg time lol. My new oil pan is going to be made out of steel instead of aluminum, hopefully it will hold the lower end together in a nice big pile better when it blows lmao!!

 

You're an addict Fox. One shot was too many and a thousand is never enough. We're sending your a$$ to rehab!

And btw, if your motor (say like maybe a j35a8) is fast enough naturally, it helps with the urge to want to use or add nitrous.

 

Lmao I've been using nitrous since I was 17 years old. I've had the same nitrous kit on the cl, on every car I've owned in the past too lol. I've just been around it for years and it's cheap that's why I like it.

A n/a j series is definitely not fast enough for me even if it was a J35A8 lol. I will always want more!!! Make sure you bring the accord to the j series track meet in the spring. I have a few tricks up my sleeve and we can run n/a vs n/a to make it fare .

 

You sprayed a 330 shot of nitrous for 20 bottles?? Wow that's impressive for a stock motor. So if it were jetted at a 100 shot, this wouldnt have happened?