How the hell do you people downshift correctly?
07-02-2003, 06:03 AM
#81
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WOW! I just read every word in this thread! I am a first time owner of a MT automobile, and I want to learn as much as I can.
I have been shifting the same way I down shift my bikes. push in clutch, blip and down shift at same time, release clutch. but of course you can easily brake and blip at the same time on a bike
I'm still trying to get used to the heel toe thing. These mugen pedals are so rough tho.
I have been shifting the same way I down shift my bikes. push in clutch, blip and down shift at same time, release clutch. but of course you can easily brake and blip at the same time on a bike
I'm still trying to get used to the heel toe thing. These mugen pedals are so rough tho.
07-02-2003, 07:14 AM
#83
Cost Drivers!!!!
Re: Re: Re: How the hell do you people downshift correctly?
Originally posted by Scrib
I got that "method" down to a science...
I guess my problem is getting the car down to the right speed... I always want to rev match, but every time I try, I'm going too fast and have to put my foot back on the brake. Maybe that's where the heal-toe would help.
Regardless, with only 800 miles on the clock, I'm still a rookie. But the curious part of me wants to try things. I just don't wanna fock something up.
I've been reading the articles people have posted here. ALL have been very informitive, regardless of the TOPIC.
I got that "method" down to a science...
I guess my problem is getting the car down to the right speed... I always want to rev match, but every time I try, I'm going too fast and have to put my foot back on the brake. Maybe that's where the heal-toe would help.
Regardless, with only 800 miles on the clock, I'm still a rookie. But the curious part of me wants to try things. I just don't wanna fock something up.
I've been reading the articles people have posted here. ALL have been very informitive, regardless of the TOPIC.
seems you'll just learn the speed of the car/gears etc., the more you drive. After a while you'll know intuatively that going 60mph you can downshift to either 3rd or 4th. Best advice is just to take it slow and don't get ahead of yourself!
07-02-2003, 07:16 AM
#84
Cost Drivers!!!!
Originally posted by synth19
might as well get in this thread... Anyways, I'm new to manual too........ I have been double clutching for some of the reasons posted before, Also.... by going into neutral, it's another safegaurd against missing a shift (alot easier for beginners imo to shift from neutral). Anyways, I need to practice downshifting more and I'll probably get another lesson from my manual seasoned friends.... Question:
1. Does NOT downshifting coming (from whatever gear you are in) to a stop affect the tranny, is this bad for your car? (What I have been doing when coming to a complete stop is putting the car in neutral and using the brake to stop, if it's a complete stop I then launch from 1st gear.....if there are no cars coming....and I'm somewhat rolling....then before I come to a complete stop I'll drop it in second gear and go......
might as well get in this thread...
Anyways, I'm new to manual too........ I have been double clutching for some of the reasons posted before, Also.... by going into neutral, it's another safegaurd against missing a shift (alot easier for beginners imo to shift from neutral). Anyways, I need to practice downshifting more and I'll probably get another lesson from my manual seasoned friends.... Question:1. Does NOT downshifting coming (from whatever gear you are in) to a stop affect the tranny, is this bad for your car? (What I have been doing when coming to a complete stop is putting the car in neutral and using the brake to stop, if it's a complete stop I then launch from 1st gear.....if there are no cars coming....and I'm somewhat rolling....then before I come to a complete stop I'll drop it in second gear and go......
YES, the engine is NOT A BRAKE, that's why the car has BRAKES!!!! This is going to start another flame war no doubt but you are doign the right things. The tranny and engine enough stress, no need to add to it and if there is any way to reduce, then by all means!
07-02-2003, 07:31 AM
#85
Cost Drivers!!!!
Originally posted by Shawn S
You double-clutch guys are smoking the WACKY WEED.
I tried it on the way home and it wasn’t smoother OR faster.
I did over-rev the engine once because my FOOT forgot to tell my BRAIN that I was in neutral not 3rd.
FAWK THAT….. Back to driving CORRECTLY tomorrow.
Shawn S
You double-clutch guys are smoking the WACKY WEED.
I tried it on the way home and it wasn’t smoother OR faster.
I did over-rev the engine once because my FOOT forgot to tell my BRAIN that I was in neutral not 3rd.
FAWK THAT….. Back to driving CORRECTLY tomorrow.
Shawn S
There is no CORRECT way
If you are concerned about syncro wear then DC, if you aren't concerned with it then don't.....simple as that. Lets move away from this ridiculous tangent and get back to answering scribs questions.
07-02-2003, 07:43 AM
#86
Administrator Alumnus
Thread Starter
Originally posted by darrinb
i just move it from d4 to 2 scrib.. works for me
i just move it from d4 to 2 scrib.. works for me
Have you forgotten I've jumped ship over to a MANUAL tranny car???
I don't have any stinkin' 'Ds'... :P
07-02-2003, 07:44 AM
#87
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Thread Starter
Originally posted by BBsAcuraRacing
You really should have bought an auto...............
You really should have bought an auto...............
Thanks!!!
07-02-2003, 08:50 AM
#88
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It's funny how all you people say "there is no need to double clutch" - but isn't the art of downshifting, blipping the throttle (rev-matching) then putting the car into gear also known as DOUBLE CLUTCHING??
Double clutching is for a smooth downshift. No need to double clutch if you're upshifting unless you drive a 10 ton truck.
Double clutching is for a smooth downshift. No need to double clutch if you're upshifting unless you drive a 10 ton truck.
07-02-2003, 08:57 AM
#89
I now drive an accord....
Originally posted by n00dleboy
It's funny how all you people say "there is no need to double clutch" - but isn't the art of downshifting, blipping the throttle (rev-matching) then putting the car into gear also known as DOUBLE CLUTCHING??
It's funny how all you people say "there is no need to double clutch" - but isn't the art of downshifting, blipping the throttle (rev-matching) then putting the car into gear also known as DOUBLE CLUTCHING??
That is called rev-matching, which is used for smooth downshifts
double clutching is something that is used for trannys with no sycnros, or if your zapata and don't want any wear out any part of your car.
Hey zapata you better not use your brakes because they will wear out in time too
07-02-2003, 09:01 AM
#90
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Just to throw in on the brakes vs. downshift to slow melee....
I've always downshifted and used the engine to help slow the car down since I started driving stick in the 80's. Every car I've owned since 1993 has had an MT, and I have absolutely NEVER had any clutch or engine problems with any of them. No, repeat, NO clutch replacements.
I have also never had to replace brakes, either, so there! :P
And in case you're curious, both previous cars I took to 60,000 or more, and my day-to-day driving style is semi-agressive and generally above all posted speed limits. And I have never double-clutched.
I've always downshifted and used the engine to help slow the car down since I started driving stick in the 80's. Every car I've owned since 1993 has had an MT, and I have absolutely NEVER had any clutch or engine problems with any of them. No, repeat, NO clutch replacements.
I have also never had to replace brakes, either, so there! :P
And in case you're curious, both previous cars I took to 60,000 or more, and my day-to-day driving style is semi-agressive and generally above all posted speed limits. And I have never double-clutched.
07-02-2003, 09:08 AM
#91
Burning Brakes
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Originally posted by Stock03CLS
Just to throw in on the brakes vs. downshift to slow melee....
I have also never had to replace brakes, either, so there! :P
Just to throw in on the brakes vs. downshift to slow melee....
I have also never had to replace brakes, either, so there! :P
07-02-2003, 09:41 AM
#92
Where is my super sauce?
Well, as an addendum to my last statement on the the issue of downshifting vs. braking to a stop -- either is fine, and it really depends on the situation.
I think the basic problem of describing what 'we' do on the internet is that most of us do it all (well, except double clutching): we rev match, we don't rev match, we engine brake, we down shift, we coast, we brake. We do it all and it just depends on a given situation and the decision is made instantaneously and on a subconscious level. Yes, that's right, I don't think "hmm, coming to turn, let's see, must brake, ok, now must disengage clutch, ok, now must shift and rev match, ok, now must engage clutch, ok, step on gas..." It just happens.
The key to getting this stuff into your subconscious is to just drive your car. Your body will tell you what's right and what's wrong. You'll figure out what causes you to lurch; you'll figure out which shift left you at 1K RPM and bogged you down; you'll figure out how you over-rev'ed that last one; you'll figure out how you really hit it right on that last turn.
In time you'll really be at one with the manual transmission...and then it's all joy.
I think the basic problem of describing what 'we' do on the internet is that most of us do it all (well, except double clutching): we rev match, we don't rev match, we engine brake, we down shift, we coast, we brake. We do it all and it just depends on a given situation and the decision is made instantaneously and on a subconscious level. Yes, that's right, I don't think "hmm, coming to turn, let's see, must brake, ok, now must disengage clutch, ok, now must shift and rev match, ok, now must engage clutch, ok, step on gas..." It just happens.
The key to getting this stuff into your subconscious is to just drive your car. Your body will tell you what's right and what's wrong. You'll figure out what causes you to lurch; you'll figure out which shift left you at 1K RPM and bogged you down; you'll figure out how you over-rev'ed that last one; you'll figure out how you really hit it right on that last turn.
In time you'll really be at one with the manual transmission...and then it's all joy.
07-02-2003, 09:44 AM
#93
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Originally posted by Titand19
Tom2, it takes too long to rev match, double clutching is much faster.
Tom2, it takes too long to rev match, double clutching is much faster.
exactly how do you rev match???
It still baffles me that people argue that it's quicker to shift gears by performing twice the actions. No logic in that. It takes a split second to rev match. You blip the throttle and you're good.
07-02-2003, 09:45 AM
#94
Cost Drivers!!!!
Originally posted by spdy0001
Ummm......NO
That is called rev-matching, which is used for smooth downshifts
double clutching is something that is used for trannys with no sycnros, or if your zapata and don't want any wear out any part of your car.
Hey zapata you better not use your brakes because they will wear out in time too
Ummm......NO
That is called rev-matching, which is used for smooth downshifts
double clutching is something that is used for trannys with no sycnros, or if your zapata and don't want any wear out any part of your car.
Hey zapata you better not use your brakes because they will wear out in time too
Brakes have an expected life expectancy of so many thousand miles. The fact you continue to equate pads and syncros is ridiculous. One wears over time and one wears quickly.
I drive my car alot. By 5 years will i have past 120k on the car and plan to keep the car for another 5years. If you can afford to drive the car when you wish and then get rid of it as the odometer reaches 100k then go for it
I'm sure you won't pay for any of my repair bills, so what's it to you??
07-02-2003, 09:48 AM
#95
Where is my super sauce?
An interesting aside -- my sister (a born and raised US citizen) lives in London, UK and has decided that she wants to drive her husband's car, which has a manual gearbox. She only drives an automatic.
She has to take lessons on a manual transmission, and pass a driving test with a manual transmission. She says that you cannot drive a manual transmission car without passing a test for a manual transmission car. By default, you only get approval for an automatic gearbox, and the driver's license apparently designates whether or not you are allowed to drive the manual car.
I've heard similar stories from other parts of Europe -- that you really have to have some level of skill to pass the test -- the license doesn't go out to nearly everyone that applies. Just some interesting food for thought.
She has to take lessons on a manual transmission, and pass a driving test with a manual transmission. She says that you cannot drive a manual transmission car without passing a test for a manual transmission car. By default, you only get approval for an automatic gearbox, and the driver's license apparently designates whether or not you are allowed to drive the manual car.
I've heard similar stories from other parts of Europe -- that you really have to have some level of skill to pass the test -- the license doesn't go out to nearly everyone that applies. Just some interesting food for thought.
07-02-2003, 09:54 AM
#96
Where is my super sauce?
Originally posted by Zapata
...I drive my car alot. By 5 years will i have past 120k on the car and plan to keep the car for another 5years. If you can afford to drive the car when you wish and then get rid of it as the odometer reaches 100k then go for it
I'm sure you won't pay for any of my repair bills, so what's it to you??
...I drive my car alot. By 5 years will i have past 120k on the car and plan to keep the car for another 5years. If you can afford to drive the car when you wish and then get rid of it as the odometer reaches 100k then go for it
I'm sure you won't pay for any of my repair bills, so what's it to you??
I do agree with you latter statement here. In the end, do what you want.
07-02-2003, 09:58 AM
#97
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Funny how everyone that is new to driving stick Double Clutches. Just out of curiosity Zapata, is this your first manual tranny car and who told you to double clutch (or did you read about on some message board) ?
07-02-2003, 10:05 AM
#98
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Originally posted by AtlCl
Funny how everyone that is new to driving stick Double Clutches. Just out of curiosity Zapata, is this your first manual tranny car and who told you to double clutch (or did you read about on some message board) ?
Funny how everyone that is new to driving stick Double Clutches. Just out of curiosity Zapata, is this your first manual tranny car and who told you to double clutch (or did you read about on some message board) ?
I don't double clutch any other time, but rev matching is a must if you don't want to wear out your clutch and cause excessive wear on the motor -- all over time of course, the damage is cumulative and takes a while.
07-02-2003, 10:23 AM
#99
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For all you fuckers taht think double cutching doesn't do anything, just try it. It's not like buying a mod. You don't need the other members of the board to dyno test it and it's Free. SO just do it, you pussies.
07-02-2003, 10:33 AM
#100
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Originally posted by Titand19
For all you fuckers taht think double cutching doesn't do anything, just try it. It's not like buying a mod. You don't need the other members of the board to dyno test it and it's Free. SO just do it, you pussies.
For all you fuckers taht think double cutching doesn't do anything, just try it. It's not like buying a mod. You don't need the other members of the board to dyno test it and it's Free. SO just do it, you pussies.
07-02-2003, 10:48 AM
#101
I now drive an accord....
Originally posted by Titand19
For all you fuckers taht think double cutching doesn't do anything, just try it. It's not like buying a mod. You don't need the other members of the board to dyno test it and it's Free. SO just do it, you pussies.
For all you fuckers taht think double cutching doesn't do anything, just try it. It's not like buying a mod. You don't need the other members of the board to dyno test it and it's Free. SO just do it, you pussies.
stop whining just because some people don't agree with you. So far you are one of the only people who has reverted to swearing. If you can't think of a something intelligent to respond with than don't just start swearing
07-02-2003, 10:57 AM
#102
Cost Drivers!!!!
Originally posted by AtlCl
Funny how everyone that is new to driving stick Double Clutches. Just out of curiosity Zapata, is this your first manual tranny car and who told you to double clutch (or did you read about on some message board) ?
Funny how everyone that is new to driving stick Double Clutches. Just out of curiosity Zapata, is this your first manual tranny car and who told you to double clutch (or did you read about on some message board) ?
Irrelevant to the fact. Take your veiled statements, references and inference to F&F BS elsewhere. I was taught stick by two different people of different decades.
07-02-2003, 10:59 AM
#103
Cost Drivers!!!!
Originally posted by spdy0001
stop whining just because some people don't agree with you. So far you are one of the only people who has reverted to swearing. If you can't think of a something intelligent to respond with than don't just start swearing
stop whining just because some people don't agree with you. So far you are one of the only people who has reverted to swearing. If you can't think of a something intelligent to respond with than don't just start swearing
Ah and this is any better? Foolishness at its best.
Now your just being stupid
The car can be shifted with nothing more than pushing in the clutch and shifting to the desired gear.
Rev matching makes this process a little smoother and double clutching is completely stupid and a waste of time, well unless your vin desiel and you live your life a 1/4 mile at a time
07-02-2003, 11:12 AM
#105
Unregistered Member
Originally posted by Zapata
tom sure things btw.....
you did infact say that rev matching results in nearly NO WEAR or DAMAGE.
That's right... I said NEARLY no wear or damage will be done if you correctly rev-match your downshifts. Rev-matching is another technique (besides double clutching) that can be used to greatly reduce (and if fact eliminate) any stress on the synchros. Do you even understand the operation of your tranny? If you properly rev match, then you're basically bringing the shaft speeds in your tranny to the same speed, thus eliminating the function of the synchro. In other words, if the shafts are spinning exactly the same speed already, then your synchro will experience no wear.
You infact brought the throw-out bearing into the conversation, not me.
That's right, bud. I simply said that YOU are sacrificing the life of your throw-out bearing to increase the life of your synchros. It is YOU that doesn't seem to grasp this simple fact. If you clutch twice for each shift, then you're cutting the life of your throw-out bearing in half, not to mention other components of the clutch. Why can't you understand this? It's simple logic.
The debate was and is centered around the topic of double clutching! If you want the syncros to last and experience less stress, then double clutch....if you do not care then don't double clutch; It's as simple as that.....
I'm not arguing that you won't increase the life of your synchros by double clutching. Again, I'm simply saying that you are sacrificing the life of your throw-out bearing by double clutching.
here's a little challenge, show me some literature that says excessive throw-out bearing wear is related to double clutching. You won't.
I don't need literature to prove it. If you understood how your clutch works, you wouldn't NEED any literature/proof. I already provided a link for you to read. If you took the time to read it, you'd realize that when you step on your clutch, you're putting wear on your throw-out bearing. 'Nuff said.
Another challenge, show some literature which says that excessive snycro wear is DIRECTLY related to stress caused by mechinical friction of two shafts spinning at different speeds attempting to sync speeds.
Again, look it up yourself. I'm so tired of arguing with you at the point, that I just don't give a fuck anymore. What the fuck do you think wears the synchros? They are there to synchronize the speed of the shafts inside your manual tranny. That's why they call them synchronizers.
tom sure things btw.....
you did infact say that rev matching results in nearly NO WEAR or DAMAGE.
That's right... I said NEARLY no wear or damage will be done if you correctly rev-match your downshifts. Rev-matching is another technique (besides double clutching) that can be used to greatly reduce (and if fact eliminate) any stress on the synchros. Do you even understand the operation of your tranny? If you properly rev match, then you're basically bringing the shaft speeds in your tranny to the same speed, thus eliminating the function of the synchro. In other words, if the shafts are spinning exactly the same speed already, then your synchro will experience no wear.
You infact brought the throw-out bearing into the conversation, not me.
That's right, bud. I simply said that YOU are sacrificing the life of your throw-out bearing to increase the life of your synchros. It is YOU that doesn't seem to grasp this simple fact. If you clutch twice for each shift, then you're cutting the life of your throw-out bearing in half, not to mention other components of the clutch. Why can't you understand this? It's simple logic.
The debate was and is centered around the topic of double clutching! If you want the syncros to last and experience less stress, then double clutch....if you do not care then don't double clutch; It's as simple as that.....
I'm not arguing that you won't increase the life of your synchros by double clutching. Again, I'm simply saying that you are sacrificing the life of your throw-out bearing by double clutching.
here's a little challenge, show me some literature that says excessive throw-out bearing wear is related to double clutching. You won't.
I don't need literature to prove it. If you understood how your clutch works, you wouldn't NEED any literature/proof. I already provided a link for you to read. If you took the time to read it, you'd realize that when you step on your clutch, you're putting wear on your throw-out bearing. 'Nuff said.
Another challenge, show some literature which says that excessive snycro wear is DIRECTLY related to stress caused by mechinical friction of two shafts spinning at different speeds attempting to sync speeds.
Again, look it up yourself. I'm so tired of arguing with you at the point, that I just don't give a fuck anymore. What the fuck do you think wears the synchros? They are there to synchronize the speed of the shafts inside your manual tranny. That's why they call them synchronizers.
07-02-2003, 11:16 AM
#106
Unregistered Member
Originally posted by Titand19
Tom2, it takes too long to rev match, double clutching is much faster.
Tom2, it takes too long to rev match, double clutching is much faster.
Yeah, okay.... let's push the clutch down, then release the clutch, then push it down again...duh! Much faster then rev-matching
Do you and Zapata share a brain?
07-02-2003, 11:22 AM
#107
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AtlCl: Trying it once is not gonna make it faster. When I frist started doing it, it took me forever and I had to go through the motion slow. Once you master it, you'll see.
07-02-2003, 11:23 AM
#108
Cost Drivers!!!!
Never said throw-out bearing wouldn't be harmed. Bring me a source, something aside from the BS you pull outta the air which says double clutching isn't recommended because it will cause undo-stress on the throw-out bearing.
First, you are incorrect snycros will experience STRESS if you do not double clutch. Seems it is you who does not understand the inner workings of a transmission. Two different layshafts are spinning at different speeds!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !! Not letting out the clutch and putting the tranny into neutral.
YOU ARE NOT MATCHING SPEEDS OF THE syncros and you are NOT REMOVING STRESS!!!!!!!!!!! Seems you love to cite edmunds.com etc., when there are points irrelevant crux of the debate but when you are asked to cite sources addressing the main topic you assert that it is uneccessary? Not suprisingly this is your m.o.
First, you are incorrect snycros will experience STRESS if you do not double clutch. Seems it is you who does not understand the inner workings of a transmission. Two different layshafts are spinning at different speeds!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !! Not letting out the clutch and putting the tranny into neutral.
YOU ARE NOT MATCHING SPEEDS OF THE syncros and you are NOT REMOVING STRESS!!!!!!!!!!! Seems you love to cite edmunds.com etc., when there are points irrelevant crux of the debate but when you are asked to cite sources addressing the main topic you assert that it is uneccessary? Not suprisingly this is your m.o.
Originally posted by Tom2
tom sure things btw.....
That's right... I said NEARLY no wear or damage will be done if you correctly rev-match your downshifts. Rev-matching is another technique (besides double clutching) that can be used to greatly reduce (and if fact eliminate) any stress on the synchros. Do you even understand the operation of your tranny? If you properly rev match, then you're basically bringing the shaft speeds in your tranny to the same speed, thus eliminating the function of the synchro. In other words, if the shafts are spinning exactly the same speed already, then your synchro will experience no wear.
That's right, bud. I simply said that YOU are sacrificing the life of your throw-out bearing to increase the life of your synchros. It is YOU that doesn't seem to grasp this simple fact. If you clutch twice for each shift, then you're cutting the life of your throw-out bearing in half, not to mention other components of the clutch. Why can't you understand this? It's simple logic.
I'm not arguing that you won't increase the life of your synchros by double clutching. Again, I'm simply saying that you are sacrificing the life of your throw-out bearing by double clutching.
I don't need literature to prove it. If you understood how your clutch works, you wouldn't NEED any literature/proof. I already provided a link for you to read. If you took the time to read it, you'd realize that when you step on your clutch, you're putting wear on your throw-out bearing. 'Nuff said.
Again, look it up yourself. I'm so tired of arguing with you at the point, that I just don't give a fuck anymore. What the fuck do you think wears the synchros? They are there to synchronize the speed of the shafts inside your manual tranny. That's why they call them synchronizers.
tom sure things btw.....
That's right... I said NEARLY no wear or damage will be done if you correctly rev-match your downshifts. Rev-matching is another technique (besides double clutching) that can be used to greatly reduce (and if fact eliminate) any stress on the synchros. Do you even understand the operation of your tranny? If you properly rev match, then you're basically bringing the shaft speeds in your tranny to the same speed, thus eliminating the function of the synchro. In other words, if the shafts are spinning exactly the same speed already, then your synchro will experience no wear.
That's right, bud. I simply said that YOU are sacrificing the life of your throw-out bearing to increase the life of your synchros. It is YOU that doesn't seem to grasp this simple fact. If you clutch twice for each shift, then you're cutting the life of your throw-out bearing in half, not to mention other components of the clutch. Why can't you understand this? It's simple logic.
I'm not arguing that you won't increase the life of your synchros by double clutching. Again, I'm simply saying that you are sacrificing the life of your throw-out bearing by double clutching.
I don't need literature to prove it. If you understood how your clutch works, you wouldn't NEED any literature/proof. I already provided a link for you to read. If you took the time to read it, you'd realize that when you step on your clutch, you're putting wear on your throw-out bearing. 'Nuff said.
Again, look it up yourself. I'm so tired of arguing with you at the point, that I just don't give a fuck anymore. What the fuck do you think wears the synchros? They are there to synchronize the speed of the shafts inside your manual tranny. That's why they call them synchronizers.
07-02-2003, 11:24 AM
#109
Unregistered Member
Originally posted by Zapata
Brakes have an expected life expectancy of so many thousand miles. The fact you continue to equate pads and syncros is ridiculous. One wears over time and one wears quickly.
One wears over time and one wears quickly. HUH? Okay, this might be the most stupid thing you've said yet, Zapata. I don't blame anyone comparing WEAR PARTS of a car, including brake pads, clutches, synchros etc... FYI, synchros have a life expectancy too.... so do alternators/water pumps etc... If you had any idea about engineering, you'd realize that.
]
Brakes have an expected life expectancy of so many thousand miles. The fact you continue to equate pads and syncros is ridiculous. One wears over time and one wears quickly.
One wears over time and one wears quickly. HUH? Okay, this might be the most stupid thing you've said yet, Zapata. I don't blame anyone comparing WEAR PARTS of a car, including brake pads, clutches, synchros etc... FYI, synchros have a life expectancy too.... so do alternators/water pumps etc... If you had any idea about engineering, you'd realize that.
]
07-02-2003, 11:25 AM
#110
Team Owner
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Hellertown, Pa. USA
Age: 57
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My last two rides:
1991 Acura Legend Coupe w/ 5-Speed manual – Driven 110,000 miles with ZERO transmission work
1988 Dodge Daytona Shelby-Z w/ 5-Speed manual – Driven 92,000 miles with ZERO transmission work
I will continue to shift this car the way I was taught back in 1985.
Shawn S
1991 Acura Legend Coupe w/ 5-Speed manual – Driven 110,000 miles with ZERO transmission work
1988 Dodge Daytona Shelby-Z w/ 5-Speed manual – Driven 92,000 miles with ZERO transmission work
I will continue to shift this car the way I was taught back in 1985.
Shawn S
07-02-2003, 11:27 AM
#111
Unregistered Member
Originally posted by AtlCl
Funny how everyone that is new to driving stick Double Clutches. Just out of curiosity Zapata, is this your first manual tranny car and who told you to double clutch (or did you read about on some message board) ?
Funny how everyone that is new to driving stick Double Clutches. Just out of curiosity Zapata, is this your first manual tranny car and who told you to double clutch (or did you read about on some message board) ?
These stick-shift noobs always seem to have a lot to learn
07-02-2003, 11:28 AM
#112
Cost Drivers!!!!
Originally posted by Tom2
Put down the crack pipe. Everyone knows that its much faster to rev-match then double clutch.
Yeah, okay.... let's push the clutch down, then release the clutch, then push it down again...duh! Much faster then rev-matching
Do you and Zapata share a brain?
Put down the crack pipe. Everyone knows that its much faster to rev-match then double clutch.
Yeah, okay.... let's push the clutch down, then release the clutch, then push it down again...duh! Much faster then rev-matching
Do you and Zapata share a brain?
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...701868-8307115
07-02-2003, 11:44 AM
#113
Unregistered Member
Originally posted by Zapata
Never said throw-out bearing wouldn't be harmed.
Okay, so now you admit that you're wearing your throw-out bearing more than you have to by double clutching? Whew, it's about time you realized that. So what the hell is the point of saving wear on your synchros when you're wearing out your throw-out bearing?
BTW, until I brought it up, you didn't even know what the fuck a throw-out bearing was.... you obviously looked it up and came back with some lame ass comment about a pilot bearing. You stupid ass
Bring me a source, something aside from the BS you pull outta the air which says double clutching isn't recommended because it will cause undo-stress on the throw-out bearing.
I told you once, and I'll tell you again-- look it up yourself. When you press on your clutch, you're wearing the TOB. It's fact, just like when you step on your brake pedal, you're wearing out your brake pads. You're such a silly little retard, Zapata.
First, you are incorrect snycros will experience STRESS if you do not double clutch.
Double clutching is not the only way to reduce the stress/friction of the synchros. Rev matching does that also. By blipping the throttle, you're changing the shaft speeds. In fact, if you're really good, you can match the speeds exactly, for a seemless downshift.
Seems it is you who does not understand the inner workings of a transmission. Two different layshafts are spinning at different speeds!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!
No kidding... I've been saying that all along. You're not telling me anything that I didn't already know. BTW, if you want to get technical, the shafts are the MAIN shaft and the CLUSTER GEAR shaft.
Not letting out the clutch and putting the tranny into neutral.
YOU ARE NOT MATCHING SPEEDS OF THE syncros and you are NOT REMOVING STRESS!!!!!!!!!!!
Wrong again, dicky. Rev-matching will match the speeds of the shafts when downshifting if done correctly.
Seems you love to cite edmunds.com etc., when there are points irrelevant crux of the debate but when you are asked to cite sources addressing the main topic you assert that it is uneccessary? Not suprisingly this is your m.o.
No, I simply got a link so that YOU would read it and maybe then YOU would understand what the hell you're talking about. But one link is obviously not good enough for you..... You continue to ask for more and more links for proof. Like I said, I'm not looking up anything for you anymore. I know I'm right and I know that you have no clue. That said, do the research for yourself.
Until then, keep double clutching Your sychros will love you but your throw-out bearing will hate you.
Zapata, you are by far one of the most ingorant, stubborn, thick-headed members of this forum.
Never said throw-out bearing wouldn't be harmed.
Okay, so now you admit that you're wearing your throw-out bearing more than you have to by double clutching? Whew, it's about time you realized that. So what the hell is the point of saving wear on your synchros when you're wearing out your throw-out bearing?
BTW, until I brought it up, you didn't even know what the fuck a throw-out bearing was.... you obviously looked it up and came back with some lame ass comment about a pilot bearing. You stupid ass
Bring me a source, something aside from the BS you pull outta the air which says double clutching isn't recommended because it will cause undo-stress on the throw-out bearing.
I told you once, and I'll tell you again-- look it up yourself. When you press on your clutch, you're wearing the TOB. It's fact, just like when you step on your brake pedal, you're wearing out your brake pads. You're such a silly little retard, Zapata.
First, you are incorrect snycros will experience STRESS if you do not double clutch.
Double clutching is not the only way to reduce the stress/friction of the synchros. Rev matching does that also. By blipping the throttle, you're changing the shaft speeds. In fact, if you're really good, you can match the speeds exactly, for a seemless downshift.
Seems it is you who does not understand the inner workings of a transmission. Two different layshafts are spinning at different speeds!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!
No kidding... I've been saying that all along. You're not telling me anything that I didn't already know. BTW, if you want to get technical, the shafts are the MAIN shaft and the CLUSTER GEAR shaft.
Not letting out the clutch and putting the tranny into neutral.
YOU ARE NOT MATCHING SPEEDS OF THE syncros and you are NOT REMOVING STRESS!!!!!!!!!!!
Wrong again, dicky. Rev-matching will match the speeds of the shafts when downshifting if done correctly.
Seems you love to cite edmunds.com etc., when there are points irrelevant crux of the debate but when you are asked to cite sources addressing the main topic you assert that it is uneccessary? Not suprisingly this is your m.o.
No, I simply got a link so that YOU would read it and maybe then YOU would understand what the hell you're talking about. But one link is obviously not good enough for you..... You continue to ask for more and more links for proof. Like I said, I'm not looking up anything for you anymore. I know I'm right and I know that you have no clue. That said, do the research for yourself.
Until then, keep double clutching
Your sychros will love you but your throw-out bearing will hate you.Zapata, you are by far one of the most ingorant, stubborn, thick-headed members of this forum.
07-02-2003, 11:45 AM
#114
Unregistered Member
Originally posted by Zapata
Awe, tom2 feels left out of the crowd. Looking for self-affirmation?
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...701868-8307115
Awe, tom2 feels left out of the crowd. Looking for self-affirmation?
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...701868-8307115
Don't look now, but the vast majority here are against YOU, not me. Only you and your brain-buddy Titan agree.
07-02-2003, 12:04 PM
#115
Cost Drivers!!!!
I never admited that I wasn't wearing out the throwout bearing!! Wow talk about running with a red herring.
Tom, multiple sources of legitimacy validate a point you are trying to make. Your obvious reluctance to do so cleary destroys your position, albeit weak and irrelevant to the topic of this thread, but this is what you do and well how can anybody get mad at ignorant being ignorant? It's ok i'll still answer your PMs asking my opinion No need for me to look up any of the information I'm asking you to do so because i've already done so. I have my answer already.
ugh ok seems i'm going to have to break out diagrams of all this and AGAIN make a complete and utter ass out of you.
time for lunch....all this asskickin sure works up an appetiete.
Tom, multiple sources of legitimacy validate a point you are trying to make. Your obvious reluctance to do so cleary destroys your position, albeit weak and irrelevant to the topic of this thread, but this is what you do and well how can anybody get mad at ignorant being ignorant? It's ok i'll still answer your PMs asking my opinion
No need for me to look up any of the information I'm asking you to do so because i've already done so. I have my answer already.ugh ok seems i'm going to have to break out diagrams of all this and AGAIN make a complete and utter ass out of you.
time for lunch....all this asskickin sure works up an appetiete.
Originally posted by Tom2
Originally posted by Zapata
Okay, so now you admit that you're wearing your throw-out bearing more than you have to by double clutching? Whew, it's about time you realized that. So what the hell is the point of saving wear on your synchros when you're wearing out your throw-out bearing?
BTW, until I brought it up, you didn't even know what the fuck a throw-out bearing was.... you obviously looked it up and came back with some lame ass comment about a pilot bearing. You stupid ass
I told you once, and I'll tell you again-- look it up yourself. When you press on your clutch, you're wearing the TOB. It's fact, just like when you step on your brake pedal, you're wearing out your brake pads. You're such a silly little retard, Zapata.
Double clutching is not the only way to reduce the stress/friction of the synchros. Rev matching does that also. By blipping the throttle, you're changing the shaft speeds. In fact, if you're really good, you can match the speeds exactly, for a seemless downshift.
No kidding... I've been saying that all along. You're not telling me anything that I didn't already know. BTW, if you want to get technical, the shafts are the MAIN shaft and the CLUSTER GEAR shaft.
Wrong again, dicky. Rev-matching will match the speeds of the shafts when downshifting if done correctly.
No, I simply got a link so that YOU would read it and maybe then YOU would understand what the hell you're talking about. But one link is obviously not good enough for you..... You continue to ask for more and more links for proof. Like I said, I'm not looking up anything for you anymore. I know I'm right and I know that you have no clue. That said, do the research for yourself.
Until then, keep double clutching Your sychros will love you but your throw-out bearing will hate you.
Zapata, you are by far one of the most ingorant, stubborn, thick-headed members of this forum.
Originally posted by Zapata
Okay, so now you admit that you're wearing your throw-out bearing more than you have to by double clutching? Whew, it's about time you realized that. So what the hell is the point of saving wear on your synchros when you're wearing out your throw-out bearing?
BTW, until I brought it up, you didn't even know what the fuck a throw-out bearing was.... you obviously looked it up and came back with some lame ass comment about a pilot bearing. You stupid ass
I told you once, and I'll tell you again-- look it up yourself. When you press on your clutch, you're wearing the TOB. It's fact, just like when you step on your brake pedal, you're wearing out your brake pads. You're such a silly little retard, Zapata.
Double clutching is not the only way to reduce the stress/friction of the synchros. Rev matching does that also. By blipping the throttle, you're changing the shaft speeds. In fact, if you're really good, you can match the speeds exactly, for a seemless downshift.
No kidding... I've been saying that all along. You're not telling me anything that I didn't already know. BTW, if you want to get technical, the shafts are the MAIN shaft and the CLUSTER GEAR shaft.
Wrong again, dicky. Rev-matching will match the speeds of the shafts when downshifting if done correctly.
No, I simply got a link so that YOU would read it and maybe then YOU would understand what the hell you're talking about. But one link is obviously not good enough for you..... You continue to ask for more and more links for proof. Like I said, I'm not looking up anything for you anymore. I know I'm right and I know that you have no clue. That said, do the research for yourself.
Until then, keep double clutching Your sychros will love you but your throw-out bearing will hate you.
Zapata, you are by far one of the most ingorant, stubborn, thick-headed members of this forum.
07-02-2003, 12:15 PM
#117
Burning Brakes
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: MD
Posts: 763
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Originally posted by spdy0001
IBTL
since this has turning into a flame war:flamer:
IBTL
since this has turning into a flame war:flamer:
Zapata & Tom2 -- both of you need to grow up.
07-02-2003, 12:18 PM
#118
Unregistered Member
Originally posted by Zapata
I never admited that I wasn't wearing out the throwout bearing!! Wow talk about running with a red herring.
Like I said, you didn't even know what a TOB was until I mentioned it. You made some off the wall comment about a pilot bearing instead.
Tom, multiple sources of legitimacy validate a point you are trying to make. Your obvious reluctance to do so cleary destroys your position, albeit weak and irrelevant to the topic of this thread, but this is what you do and well how can anybody get mad at ignorant being ignorant?
I'm not being ignorant. I have no need to validate any point I'm making, because as I have already said- I'm tired of trying to explain it to you. So do your own research and quit crying to me about it, okay?
It's ok i'll still answer your PMs asking my opinion
Let's state for the record that I've NEVER PM'd you to ask your opinion about anything related to this thread. That's a fact. I did PM you to ask you about your opinions of buying a 6 speed CL-S. At the time, I was considering buying one, so I PM'd you and Shawn for your opions. Don't try to make it look like I PM you for your opinions on anything technical. I'd never do that, because you have a severe lack of technical knowledge.
No need for me to look up any of the information I'm asking you to do so because i've already done so. I have my answer already.
Good. Then you already know that you're wrong.
ugh ok seems i'm going to have to break out diagrams of all this and AGAIN make a complete and utter ass out of you.
I'll be waiting.
time for lunch....all this asskickin sure works up an appetiete. [/B]
Keep thinking that your kicking ass, you fool. Bust out them diagrams, you little nerd and we'll see how you are wearing your TOB by pressing the clutch. BTW, that is my MAIN argument here. You will never be able to disprove that fact with any diagram. Guaranteed.
I never admited that I wasn't wearing out the throwout bearing!! Wow talk about running with a red herring.
Like I said, you didn't even know what a TOB was until I mentioned it. You made some off the wall comment about a pilot bearing instead.
Tom, multiple sources of legitimacy validate a point you are trying to make. Your obvious reluctance to do so cleary destroys your position, albeit weak and irrelevant to the topic of this thread, but this is what you do and well how can anybody get mad at ignorant being ignorant?
I'm not being ignorant. I have no need to validate any point I'm making, because as I have already said- I'm tired of trying to explain it to you. So do your own research and quit crying to me about it, okay?
It's ok i'll still answer your PMs asking my opinion
Let's state for the record that I've NEVER PM'd you to ask your opinion about anything related to this thread. That's a fact. I did PM you to ask you about your opinions of buying a 6 speed CL-S. At the time, I was considering buying one, so I PM'd you and Shawn for your opions. Don't try to make it look like I PM you for your opinions on anything technical. I'd never do that, because you have a severe lack of technical knowledge.
No need for me to look up any of the information I'm asking you to do so because i've already done so. I have my answer already.
Good. Then you already know that you're wrong.
ugh ok seems i'm going to have to break out diagrams of all this and AGAIN make a complete and utter ass out of you.
I'll be waiting.
time for lunch....all this asskickin sure works up an appetiete. [/B]
Keep thinking that your kicking ass, you fool. Bust out them diagrams, you little nerd and we'll see how you are wearing your TOB by pressing the clutch. BTW, that is my MAIN argument here. You will never be able to disprove that fact with any diagram. Guaranteed.
07-02-2003, 12:20 PM
#120
Unregistered Member
Originally posted by Starter
Yeah, it's about time the children were sent to bed without supper. There's nothing wrong with a difference of opinion, it's how you express it.
Zapata & Tom2 -- both of you need to grow up.
Yeah, it's about time the children were sent to bed without supper. There's nothing wrong with a difference of opinion, it's how you express it.
Zapata & Tom2 -- both of you need to grow up.