its getting very interesting how SOOO many new cars are coming out with more and more HP and its pushing our 260 HP CL-S down the ranks very quickly...i remember when the 80's corvettes had something like 225 HP and now they are at 400 or so (Z06). Seems like all the newer cars coming out are going bigger and bigger with the HP and Tq numbers...the new grand prix next year is 280 HP and 280 TQ...the altimas are now at 240...the Maxima will no doubt top its current 250...where is this all going? when is Honda going to catch up to the pace and start pushing near 300 out of our cars...they are already bumping up the Accord it seems to something like 220-230...and it goes on and on...the BMW M series keep getting more HP...at this rate in 10 years we will be driving cars with 600 HP in a common sports sedan and things like Corvettes will be at 700-800 HP...is this where its going or is there a limit? is it even safe for all these people out there to have such powerful cars? i mean where can we actually ever PUSH the cars to the limit without fear of injury, death, tickets or imprisonment???

 

Obviously there is a limit that will be reached quite quickly as soon as idiots can afford a car with more than 200hp because the accident rates will skyrocket and it will all be their fault the rest of us get screwed when they legislate horsepower limits on automobiles.

 

Hello? Wasn't everybody just as shocked (as you are now with the Alitima) with Acura's 260hp 3.2? Yes they were. We were ahead then (in a way we still are). Companies can't just quickly top one another when the competetion catches up. When it's time for our cars to be re-modeled we will once again be up on top.

 

Limiting issues:

Cost of insurance, cost of fuel, and cost of insurance with accompanying speeding tickets (What's the point of having a ton of power if your not towing a trailer or are at high altitudes, hey?)


Accelerating issues:

Tons of baby boomers who watched 400 HP bias ply monsters of the late 60s turn into 427 cu in boat anchors (Hey, the police would thank VW speeders for stopping (due to all of the smog controls on their California cop-mobiles).

Easy smog control due to computer models, electronics, catalytic converter technology, and other technology (like variable valve lift and timing and other goodies).


Prediction:

Plenty of 300HP+ cars running around until things get really crazy...

 

Companies relized that they can take advantage from the HP numbers Vs. Costs. I mean if they increase it 20hp then they increase the price 2+ grands. 20hp increase did not cost them 2 grands, and people buy.

Mass producing superchargers are realy inexpensive, the price increase at the final product is.

I work for Eaton, and I had a couple of project on the superchargers. And let me tell you, that EVERY single company have a plan for the supercharger.

 

I think it's a similar situation to what happen in the late 60's with the Musclecars... only difference is now it's on all types of cars.

I'm sure it will continue on and progress until insurance rates skyrocket (like they did in the late 60's) or until tighter emissions controls are established (like in the 60's)....

I'm all for it continuing though!!!!

DOM

 

I don't think fuel economy will become a factor directly, and i also don't think death rates will go up dramatically. The only thing that may stop the horsepower war, is another fuel embargo, or safety/enviro freaks causing government legislation. Lets hope that doesn't happen.

 

What if they didn't have a CL Type-S, and Acura only released one CL, with the 225hp rating (remember, this would be back in year 2000), but with the type-s seats, guages, VSA, 17" rims, ect ect ect.

How many people here would have bought a 225hp CL-s over the other cars offered in mid 2000?

 

That's why I bought a 2001 CLP, there was no type S

 

i totally agree with u...think about 2 or 3 years back..260HP car at the time will be very cool and strong enough but nowadays..every car manufacture is trying to put a powerful engine in every kind of cars...only a few car manufacture has v6 vehicles those are under 200HP..... but more hp does not mean better quality or faster.. nor luxury..

 

Rant mode on...

I personally am looking forward to the largest energy shortage this world has ever seen. That sounds really bad until you realize that nothing will change until a crisis finally sets in. Kinda like the 70's when there wasn't even a drop of gas to be found in a lot of gas stations. Cars sure became a lot more fuel efficient after that didn't they? The general trend in the 80's and early 90's I believe was to make vehicles more fuel efficient. Then in the past few years it seemed like the HP race was on in the everyday car. Cars are definately more fuel efficient now than in previous years, but as more cars get more HP and there are more SUV's and large vehicles on the roads, the total energy use will continue to go higher, much higher.

So until this shortage occurs, I believe manufacturers will continue to outdo each other, adding more HP each year to their cars. There is a limit somewhere, but who knows how much HP we'll have in our cars in 5 years? Of course the manufacturers are simply giving their customers what they want, if there was no demand, would we have cars currently approaching 300hp? Cars are extremely ineffecient, using only 10-13% of the energy they create, inherent to the internal combustin engine. There are better ways to power a vehicle (hybrids are a start, fuel cells, hydrogen), but you can be sure that somewhere out there, there is a special interest group opposed to it. Instead of conservation, it seems the general US population is trying to use more and more energy. (Not that we're much better and I'm not pretending we are). Massive SUV's that get low double-digit mpg frustrate me, especially when it's used as a commuter car for a single driver and rarely anything more.

Part of the reason there are higher HP/less fuel efficient cars is gas in the US gas is sooo inexpensive, while the rest of the world seems to be paying a lot more. Here in Canada a litre right now is about 75 cents. About 4 litres in a gallon, 4*0.75 = $3Cdn gallon = about $2.20US a gallon. Not too bad, and we have it lucky compared to Europe! Remember when gas hit over $2US 1-2 years ago, there were daily news stories about the price of gas, about how "expensive" it was and how could people afford to fill up their cars. This is normal for the rest of the world! The US gov't wimps out for mandating higher fuel effecient vehicles for ~2015-2018 (what year was it exactly?). One word: SIG. The ability to achieve 30-40mpg is definately within reach of the car manufacturers. Oh but wait, the oil/gas companies would lose money so we can't do that! It's great to see hybrids coming out, and I especially like that Honda commercial where that guy in the Civic is making fun of that older guy in the SUV filling up - "Chug a lug, chug a lug, chug a lug". But until there is a massive energy shortage I can't see people caring much about how much gas they use, and we will continue to see increases in engine power.

Sorry 'bout the essay, rant mode off...

 

If you don't like how the US gov't does it's business, then vote differently or write your Congressman.

 

Well, every time the Middle East "burps", we dive for cover. As long as we depend on oil from "outside" of the US, fuel economy importance is directly related to:

Threatened "fuel embargos"
Thoughts of terrorists "blowing" shit-up and causing "disruptions" or excuses for higher gas prices
Automakers NOT meeting their gas mileage targets
Wars
Price Gouging
A few choice tanker spills…


Honda/Acura has the technology (hybrid) for putting out a ton of power while also getting great fuel economy, but price sensitivity and battery costs (and/or subsidies) impact "bottom line" costs that may make an initial thrust into this market "problematic" from a marketing perspective. I'm not sure that people at this moment want a car with "GREAT" fuel economy AND extremely high peak/transient HP/torque ratings (power-to-weight).

I know a number of people that started looking at Hybrids after 9/11 -- and it wasn't because they were "pioneers" (they were scared about being able to get food and get to work in the future). Things can change quickly (they just bought new gas guzzling SUVs when “things cooled down”)

BTW, there is a point where airbags, seatbelts, and crush zones WILL NOT prevent some car (getting to 70 in 5 seconds) from killing a whole corner full of kids. The only thing that seems “certain” is uncertainty

 

Strange you should mention that. I was very happy with my 1992 Maxima SE auto with one BIG exception: it had a 4-speed with a 1st gear that made passing slow moving trucks and cars (25-40MPH) a challenge and quite dangerous. (The Nissan's DOHC 3.0L didn't have the flat torque of the CL/CLS and didn't work well with its tall 1st gear)

I was going to get a TL/CL (with the nice torque curve and 5-speed being MAJOR factors). The pricing of the Maxima came very close to that of the TL/CL (I looked at the Audi, Lexus, and BMWs too) It was the minimal price differential and zero need for 4-doors that moved me to the CLS with the 260-HP (incrementalism at work -- if I'm going to pay xx,xxxx, why not pay $2K more for all the goodies).

I'll be paying more attention to the inclusion of an SMG (or equivalent) clutchless manual in my next vehicle.

AS a note, I checked the my insurance company's premiums, and if it had been just a bit higher, I might have been driving a CLP today (with tires, wheels, and sways).

 

He's a Canadian.

Don't worry, the First Armored will roll across the border at 0500 hours tomorrow to add nine new states to our roster. Then he'll have a real reason to complain.

I honestly wouldn't care what powers my car so long as it performs like a champ. Then again, I sure would miss the growl of the ICE if it's replaced by the tweeting-whistle of a Jetson-mobile.

 

Well... even with more HP most manufacturers are going to have to start putting the power in the rear wheels again. As it sucks driving a high output front wheel drive car! That will be dangerous by itself! A little wheel slip and your going to be fighting that steering wheel HARD!

It'll be interesting to watch Acura fall behind in this war, and then see what they do to make a comback. I doubt they will really care. They should put more into the luxury now instead of more HP. Real wood, full power seats on both sides, RWD, full heated seats on both sides, adjustable headrests, auto leveling xenons, subs under the seats , full auto up/down windows, auto tinting side view mirrors, heated steering wheel....

At least then they'd have something different to offer. No way they'll keep up with the HP war this round

 

Exactly, that's the point.

 

The new CLS has Full Power Seats (both), both front seats are heated, mirrors are heated and auto-tint, as with the rear view. Adjustable headrests. Real wood trim looks stupid and sucks. Heated steering wheel is a little much. I do wish it was RWD and that the passenger window controls were full auto.

 

Well actually the point can be that politicians can be bought and sold so they aren't going to do anything unless there's something in it for them. People could write letters but they'd be pretty pointless!

JRock, we have 10 Provinces/Territories, unless there was a sneak attack thru Alaska or something last night. We're already pretty Americanized so it wouldn't be too much of a cultural shift. I wouldn't complain being paid in US dollars and paying lower taxes!

More on topic, I think in 5-10 years hybrids (or whatever they come up with that works well) will be greatly matured. Things are really in their infancy stage right now, and when you can still have a car with lots of power/torque with very high gas mileage that's when we'll start seeing a much bigger changeover. I think hybrids have more of a chance right now than zero emission vehicles.

 

the side views auto tint now? show me

and the passenger seat has lower back heating element now? show me (it doesn't)
which also now only has one heat setting in the 2003 (ON/OFF)

And the passeneger seat is more than a 4-way?

from acura website....
" Remote-linked driver's 8-way power seat with 2-position memory
Front passenger's 4-way power seat "

Adjustable headrests!?

I don't mean up and down, you have to almost stare at the roof to use them... they should tilt forward too.

Heated steering wheels rock, you must be young and live where it is warm all of the time... granted not neccessary, but really nice

And while I'm at it ... lights on the controls in the steering wheel would be nice.

Real wood trim does not look stupid, and if you like luxury you'll notice ALL nice luxury cars come with real wood

You'd rather have fake plastic? be it either wood or aluminum/titanium they are trying to copy... oke doke...


do you own a CLS?

 

Another thing to keep in mind, that offsets the HP increases is the weight increases of vehicles. Granted it does add up to the same increases in HP, but I thinks it's part of the reason why car continuously get more power. All these added features that ppl want, weigh the car down. Power window modules, seat heaters, larger diameter wheels, etc etc. Just to give an example, the old BMW 5series used to weigh about 3600lbs back in the day. Now it tips the scales at 4000+ lbs. Honda Accord used to weigh just under 3000lbs, now weighs about 3200. Toyota celica now weighs over 3000lbs, but used to weigh 2800.
I think the power increases will level off, but won't stop since cars will continuously get heavier.(unless something other than steel becomes the primary material.)
just my .02

 

AND what kind of car do you drive ???

Manufacturers are building the vehicles that are profitable & that the consumer wants to spend their money on.

Supply & Demand in the marketplace.

 

I dont understand whats the point with all these power when the speed limit is 55mph. I was in my friend's car the other day and he got pulled over for 59 in a 55mph zone. I was thinking, thats 2nd gear in our car, does that mean I can't go above 2nd gear now cause I'll be over the speed limit and in danger of getting a speeding ticket??? I also got pulled over for 66mph at 55mph zone before.

 

That isn't true about the 5 series...

The 1994 530i weighed 3650 lbs, the 2002 530i 3494 lbs. The 5 series actually reduced weight from the previous generation. The current M5 is the only 5 series that currently weighs more than 4000 lbs. The current M5 is heavier than the last one one partially because it is the fist M5 to have a V-8, the last one had either a 3.6L or 3.8L I-6