Here is how your engine makes 260 HP from 3.2 liters
05-14-2001, 03:19 PM
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28-33k for a '95?!?!?!? Damn it! I priced mine @ $33k!!!!!! Time to raise my price?
As for gavriil:
Nevermind...forget it.
(
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As for gavriil:
Nevermind...forget it.
(
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Xephyr2K:
In the Philadelphia region they are generally up about 3K from where they were 6-8 months ago. From the 25-30K to 28-33K again now....
</font>
In the Philadelphia region they are generally up about 3K from where they were 6-8 months ago. From the 25-30K to 28-33K again now....
</font>
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05-14-2001, 03:21 PM
#42
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Actually, were not comparing cars here. We're comparing the power output of engines.
An engine is an engine, no matter which car it is in, so as long as all engines being compared are naturally aspirated and currently in production cars, then it is an apples to apples comparison.
moomaster-
So what you're saying is that we can only compare 3.2L engines? And then we must compare the price of the cars that the 3.2L engine comes in? Hmmm.... Any more rules to this silly game?
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Tom2: The Voice Of Reason
An engine is an engine, no matter which car it is in, so as long as all engines being compared are naturally aspirated and currently in production cars, then it is an apples to apples comparison.
moomaster-
So what you're saying is that we can only compare 3.2L engines? And then we must compare the price of the cars that the 3.2L engine comes in? Hmmm.... Any more rules to this silly game?
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Tom2: The Voice Of Reason
05-14-2001, 03:23 PM
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by M3Sins:
28-33k for a '95?!?!?!? Damn it! I priced mine @ $33k!!!!!! Time to raise my price?</font>
28-33k for a '95?!?!?!? Damn it! I priced mine @ $33k!!!!!! Time to raise my price?</font>
Chris
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05-14-2001, 03:27 PM
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I get 102.5 hp per liter in my 9-3 (205bhp/2.0L). Which means that if I had a 3.2L engine, I could outpout 325bhp, give or take a hp. Is that extraordinary? Unusual? Exceptional? Does that make my engine better? BTW, I'm in the same price range as the CL-S.
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05-14-2001, 03:27 PM
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Tom2:
Actually, were not comparing cars here. We're comparing the power output of engines.
An engine is an engine, no matter which car it is in, so as long as all engines being compared are naturally aspirated and currently in production cars, then it is an apples to apples comparison.
moomaster-
So what you're saying is that we can only compare 3.2L engines? And then we must compare the price of the cars that the 3.2L engine comes in? Hmmm.... Any more rules to this silly game?
</font>
Actually, were not comparing cars here. We're comparing the power output of engines.
An engine is an engine, no matter which car it is in, so as long as all engines being compared are naturally aspirated and currently in production cars, then it is an apples to apples comparison.
moomaster-
So what you're saying is that we can only compare 3.2L engines? And then we must compare the price of the cars that the 3.2L engine comes in? Hmmm.... Any more rules to this silly game?
</font>
Chris
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Xephyr Performance Intakes
05-14-2001, 03:29 PM
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You have nothing positive to say about our cars yet you insist on coming here and push BMW technology in our face. How old are you? What do I gain from learning BMW technology from someone who I don't know, nor thinks really knows what he's talking about? Next time I am at Park Ave Acura and I want to learn about BMW's I'll go across the street to Park Ave BMW. I'll speak to a mechanic or a manager, not some guy on a board who throws out numbers and estimates like you fucking build them or helped design them. I don't disagree with you, I think BMW makes an excellent car and my next car may (probably) will be an M3. You are NOT the voice of reason here because you own and drive an M3. I don't care if you used to own a CLS, big f'ing deal. SAABMANFOREVER is the best NONBIASED voice of reason here. I'll listen to his insight way before I consider anything you say to be true or gospel at that.
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05-14-2001, 03:30 PM
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by eclipse23:
You have nothing positive to say about our cars yet you insist on coming here and push BMW technology in our face. How old are you? What do I gain from learning BMW technology from someone who I don't know, nor thinks really knows what he's talking about? Next time I am at Park Ave Acura and I want to learn about BMW's I'll go across the street to Park Ave BMW. I'll speak to a mechanic or a manager, not some guy on a board who throws out numbers and estimates like you fucking build them or helped design them. I don't disagree with you, I think BMW makes an excellent car and my next car may (probably) will be an M3. You are NOT the voice of reason here because you own and drive an M3. I don't care if you used to own a CLS, big f'ing deal. SAABMANFOREVER is the best NONBIASED voice of reason here. I'll listen to his insight way before I consider anything you say to be true or gospel at that.
</font>
You have nothing positive to say about our cars yet you insist on coming here and push BMW technology in our face. How old are you? What do I gain from learning BMW technology from someone who I don't know, nor thinks really knows what he's talking about? Next time I am at Park Ave Acura and I want to learn about BMW's I'll go across the street to Park Ave BMW. I'll speak to a mechanic or a manager, not some guy on a board who throws out numbers and estimates like you fucking build them or helped design them. I don't disagree with you, I think BMW makes an excellent car and my next car may (probably) will be an M3. You are NOT the voice of reason here because you own and drive an M3. I don't care if you used to own a CLS, big f'ing deal. SAABMANFOREVER is the best NONBIASED voice of reason here. I'll listen to his insight way before I consider anything you say to be true or gospel at that.
</font>
Eassssy Poobah youre gonna blow a gasket LOL
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Xephyr Performance Intakes
05-14-2001, 03:30 PM
#49
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Xephyr2K:
If thats the case, then I think one of the Kings Of Displacement to Power is the 93-95 RX-7 given stok it put out 255HP in a 1.3 Litre Rotary Engine... now thats 196.15 HP/Litre ...
Chris
</font>
If thats the case, then I think one of the Kings Of Displacement to Power is the 93-95 RX-7 given stok it put out 255HP in a 1.3 Litre Rotary Engine... now thats 196.15 HP/Litre ...
Chris
</font>
Sure, but now you're talking cars with forced induction. That's an entirely different comparison.....
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Tom2: The Voice Of Reason
05-14-2001, 03:31 PM
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Guys:
The CLS is good mostly because of the "bang for the buck" factor. Even Nissan and Toyota SUVs have 260 HP nowadays.
Having driven anything from go-karts to IMSA-class race cars, I can also tell you that BMWs are nice but definitely not the "ultimate driving machine"... (and way overpriced)
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The CLS is good mostly because of the "bang for the buck" factor. Even Nissan and Toyota SUVs have 260 HP nowadays.
Having driven anything from go-karts to IMSA-class race cars, I can also tell you that BMWs are nice but definitely not the "ultimate driving machine"... (and way overpriced)
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05-14-2001, 03:33 PM
#51
The Creator
Well... I dont know...
I kinda like the fact that Tom tells us how it is.
Some people think their car can do way more then it should.
I mean... granted Tom compares apple to oranges... but hes not the only one doing that... theres just as many people declaring our car king of the land.
Dont get me wrong... I too could do without the mighty BMW talk. But... it keeps shit interesting around here.
No reason to get personal.
(Tom... nothing personal goes for you too...)
Remember the Golden Rule gentlemen
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"Put your hand on a hot stove for a minute, and it seems like an hour. Sit with a pretty girl for an hour, and it seems like a minute. That's relativity." -Albert Einstein
I kinda like the fact that Tom tells us how it is.
Some people think their car can do way more then it should.
I mean... granted Tom compares apple to oranges... but hes not the only one doing that... theres just as many people declaring our car king of the land.
Dont get me wrong... I too could do without the mighty BMW talk. But... it keeps shit interesting around here.
No reason to get personal.
(Tom... nothing personal goes for you too...)
Remember the Golden Rule gentlemen
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05-14-2001, 03:38 PM
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Tom2:
Sure, but now you're talking cars with forced induction. That's an entirely different comparison.....
</font>
Sure, but now you're talking cars with forced induction. That's an entirely different comparison.....
</font>
Blah Blah Blah .... As far as forced induction - vs- displacement goes....
1.3L RX-7 255 HP for the Mazda... 196HP
3.6L Porsche 911 Turbo 424HP..... 117HP
LOL
Chris
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Xephyr Performance Intakes[This message has been edited by Xephyr2K (edited 05-14-2001).]
05-14-2001, 03:39 PM
#53
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eclipse,
I thought you were no longer responding to my posts? I liked it better when you weren't.....
By the way, I am the self-proclaimed voice of reason in this forum. You guys need someone here to set you straight when you get all giddy about how great the CL-S is.......
And since you keep turning this into BMW vs Acura, why do you insist on discounting stuff that I say in favor of Acura? Didn't I already say that Honda has the highest HP per liter of any engine that I can think of?
DID YOU READ THAT? OR DO YOU JUST CHOOSE TO READ STUFF THAT YOU FIND TO BE NEGATIVE? Don't be such an analytical hypocrite.
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Tom2: The Voice Of Reason
I thought you were no longer responding to my posts? I liked it better when you weren't.....
By the way, I am the self-proclaimed voice of reason in this forum. You guys need someone here to set you straight when you get all giddy about how great the CL-S is.......
And since you keep turning this into BMW vs Acura, why do you insist on discounting stuff that I say in favor of Acura? Didn't I already say that Honda has the highest HP per liter of any engine that I can think of?
DID YOU READ THAT? OR DO YOU JUST CHOOSE TO READ STUFF THAT YOU FIND TO BE NEGATIVE? Don't be such an analytical hypocrite.
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Tom2: The Voice Of Reason
05-14-2001, 03:40 PM
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Tom2:
Sure, but now you're talking cars with forced induction. That's an entirely different comparison.....
</font>
Sure, but now you're talking cars with forced induction. That's an entirely different comparison.....
</font>
I guess the only real substitute for displacement is technology. :-)
05-14-2001, 03:42 PM
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by saabman4ever:
I get 102.5 hp per liter in my 9-3 (205bhp/2.0L). Which means that if I had a 3.2L engine, I could outpout 325bhp, give or take a hp. Is that extraordinary? Unusual? Exceptional? Does that make my engine better? BTW, I'm in the same price range as the CL-S.
</font>
I get 102.5 hp per liter in my 9-3 (205bhp/2.0L). Which means that if I had a 3.2L engine, I could outpout 325bhp, give or take a hp. Is that extraordinary? Unusual? Exceptional? Does that make my engine better? BTW, I'm in the same price range as the CL-S.
</font>
Hey Saab MAN wake up. Your engine is forced fed. Do we need to get into the NA vs. Forced Fed endless debate? Like I said, apples to apples. And as for price range, a 2001 Saab 9-3 SE has an MSRP of $40,570 without any options (which I think there are not many anyway).
An apples to apples comparison would be:
Comapre engines from the same category automobile. Cars like the CLK 320. Like the 330Ci auto tranny. Just make sure you compare NA engines. Then take into consideration the price and you will see that there is nothing close to a $30K entry luxury GT with 260HP from 3.2 liters in an NA form.
That is apples to apples.
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05-14-2001, 03:43 PM
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by soopa:
Well... I dont know...
I kinda like the fact that Tom tells us how it is.
Some people think their car can do way more then it should.
I mean... granted Tom compares apple to oranges... but hes not the only one doing that... theres just as many people declaring our car king of the land.
Dont get me wrong... I too could do without the mighty BMW talk. But... it keeps shit interesting around here.
No reason to get personal.
(Tom... nothing personal goes for you too...)
Remember the Golden Rule gentlemen
</font>
Well... I dont know...
I kinda like the fact that Tom tells us how it is.
Some people think their car can do way more then it should.
I mean... granted Tom compares apple to oranges... but hes not the only one doing that... theres just as many people declaring our car king of the land.
Dont get me wrong... I too could do without the mighty BMW talk. But... it keeps shit interesting around here.
No reason to get personal.
(Tom... nothing personal goes for you too...)
Remember the Golden Rule gentlemen
</font>
I was on the Maxima board slamming them and applying all kinds of facts and numbers to make them see how my car was faster. After I re-read the post today I realized I made a whole lot of people upset over their purchases and being a killjoy.
You know what, lemme be a little delusional about my car and if I want to think it's faster than it is then fine. It's my fucking 30K expediture and I come here not to have someone push numbers and shit in my face. Maybe I'm the only one here that feels this way then so be it.
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05-14-2001, 03:44 PM
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The one thing I have to say is that I am a big fan of apples to apples comparisons... But so are manufacturers .... that's why every damn car is "In a class of it's own" that way you really cant compare them effectively.... Besides for 75% of us here street races are where you find out who is faster then who... and its rare to find apples to apples races on the street....
Chris
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Chris
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Xephyr Performance Intakes
05-14-2001, 03:46 PM
#58
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by soopa:
Well... I dont know...
I kinda like the fact that Tom tells us how it is.
Some people think their car can do way more then it should.
I mean... granted Tom compares apple to oranges... but hes not the only one doing that... theres just as many people declaring our car king of the land.
Dont get me wrong... I too could do without the mighty BMW talk. But... it keeps shit interesting around here.
No reason to get personal.
(Tom... nothing personal goes for you too...)
Remember the Golden Rule gentlemen
</font>
Well... I dont know...
I kinda like the fact that Tom tells us how it is.
Some people think their car can do way more then it should.
I mean... granted Tom compares apple to oranges... but hes not the only one doing that... theres just as many people declaring our car king of the land.
Dont get me wrong... I too could do without the mighty BMW talk. But... it keeps shit interesting around here.
No reason to get personal.
(Tom... nothing personal goes for you too...)
Remember the Golden Rule gentlemen
</font>
Thanks for the support. But I very rarely compare "apples and oranges". If you read through this entire thread, you'll see that there is no apples/orange comparison by me.
And you're right on the money with not taking this stuff personal. I know I've been guilty of getting personal in the past, but that's usually only when I get "attacked" first. I'm trying hard to keep in non-peronal these days......
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Tom2: The Voice Of Reason
05-14-2001, 03:52 PM
#59
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Eclipse,
I hear what you're saying, but at the same time, would you really like this forum if EVERYBODY only commented on how great the CL-S is? How awesome its 260 HP is? How great of a bang-for-the-buck all it's luxuries are?
Sorry bud, but you're out of the matrix and in the real world where not everybody is gonna sugar coat everything for you.....
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Tom2: The Voice Of Reason
I hear what you're saying, but at the same time, would you really like this forum if EVERYBODY only commented on how great the CL-S is? How awesome its 260 HP is? How great of a bang-for-the-buck all it's luxuries are?
Sorry bud, but you're out of the matrix and in the real world where not everybody is gonna sugar coat everything for you.....
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Tom2: The Voice Of Reason
05-14-2001, 03:56 PM
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I wish someone would sugarcoat the fact that my clutch is going 
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Tom2:
Eclipse,
I hear what you're saying, but at the same time, would you really like this forum if EVERYBODY only commented on how great the CL-S is? How awesome its 260 HP is? How great of a bang-for-the-buck all it's luxuries are?
Sorry bud, but you're out of the matrix and in the real world where not everybody is gonna sugar coat everything for you.....
</font>
Eclipse,
I hear what you're saying, but at the same time, would you really like this forum if EVERYBODY only commented on how great the CL-S is? How awesome its 260 HP is? How great of a bang-for-the-buck all it's luxuries are?
Sorry bud, but you're out of the matrix and in the real world where not everybody is gonna sugar coat everything for you.....
</font>
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05-14-2001, 03:59 PM
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Tom2:
Eclipse,
I hear what you're saying, but at the same time, would you really like this forum if EVERYBODY only commented on how great the CL-S is? How awesome its 260 HP is? How great of a bang-for-the-buck all it's luxuries are?
Sorry bud, but you're out of the matrix and in the real world where not everybody is gonna sugar coat everything for you.....
</font>
Eclipse,
I hear what you're saying, but at the same time, would you really like this forum if EVERYBODY only commented on how great the CL-S is? How awesome its 260 HP is? How great of a bang-for-the-buck all it's luxuries are?
Sorry bud, but you're out of the matrix and in the real world where not everybody is gonna sugar coat everything for you.....
</font>
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05-14-2001, 04:00 PM
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Tom2:
I love threads like these!! A big thanks to Gavriil for starting this one!
</font>
I love threads like these!! A big thanks to Gavriil for starting this one!
</font>
(not the 'best' maybe, but definitely great--can you stomach that tom??)
who gives a damn about the whiny comparisons-that's not what this imformative thread was about...the rest of you can piss off
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05-14-2001, 04:01 PM
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I cannot believe you asses do not have anything of value to say about all this good info I found about our engine/s. Anything? There are things in there that I do not understand. Do I have to ask for someone to say something of value? WTF?
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Gabriel
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05-14-2001, 04:03 PM
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by gavriil:
I cannot believe you asses do not have anything of value to say about all this good info I found about our engine/s. Anything? There are things in there that I do not understand. Do I have to ask for someone to say something of value? WTF?
</font>
I cannot believe you asses do not have anything of value to say about all this good info I found about our engine/s. Anything? There are things in there that I do not understand. Do I have to ask for someone to say something of value? WTF?
</font>
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you are not your fukking signature.
05-14-2001, 04:03 PM
#66
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by gavriil:
I cannot believe you asses do not have anything of value to say about all this good info I found about our engine/s. Anything? There are things in there that I do not understand. Do I have to ask for someone to say something of value? WTF?
</font>
I cannot believe you asses do not have anything of value to say about all this good info I found about our engine/s. Anything? There are things in there that I do not understand. Do I have to ask for someone to say something of value? WTF?
</font>
Press Area access was abundant until recently.
05-14-2001, 04:06 PM
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by eclipse23:
Are you coming to my meet on the 26th?
</font>
Are you coming to my meet on the 26th?
</font>
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Tom2: The Voice Of Reason
05-14-2001, 04:09 PM
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Tom2:
Why would I bother? I don't even have a CL-S anymore. If I came in my M3, then guys like you would be crying that I only came to the meet in my M3 to show you all up.
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Why would I bother? I don't even have a CL-S anymore. If I came in my M3, then guys like you would be crying that I only came to the meet in my M3 to show you all up.
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2. You post here so it would be nice to put a name to a face.
3. If anyone felt that you'd be showing them up well that's there insecurity. The invite is yours take it or not.
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05-14-2001, 04:11 PM
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What silly game!?! I only said the facts..I'm not trying to get into a flame war with you Tom. I'm saying that size of engines matter....I think that the new M3 engine is great...but if are saying that engine size doesn't matter. You are sorely mistaken. If I went by you rules, then we'll just talk about motorcycle motors all day. Period.
I just want to say that the M3 and Cl-S have 2 of the best engines out in the V6 category. Remember your M3 is only 240...lots of torque, but only 240 from 3.2L...the CL-S is 260 from 3.2L and heavy. Name any other engine in this category.
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2001 Cl-S Black on Black with Navigation
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I just want to say that the M3 and Cl-S have 2 of the best engines out in the V6 category. Remember your M3 is only 240...lots of torque, but only 240 from 3.2L...the CL-S is 260 from 3.2L and heavy. Name any other engine in this category.
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Tom2:
Actually, were not comparing cars here. We're comparing the power output of engines.
An engine is an engine, no matter which car it is in, so as long as all engines being compared are naturally aspirated and currently in production cars, then it is an apples to apples comparison.
moomaster-
So what you're saying is that we can only compare 3.2L engines? And then we must compare the price of the cars that the 3.2L engine comes in? Hmmm.... Any more rules to this silly game?
</font>
Actually, were not comparing cars here. We're comparing the power output of engines.
An engine is an engine, no matter which car it is in, so as long as all engines being compared are naturally aspirated and currently in production cars, then it is an apples to apples comparison.
moomaster-
So what you're saying is that we can only compare 3.2L engines? And then we must compare the price of the cars that the 3.2L engine comes in? Hmmm.... Any more rules to this silly game?
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2001 Cl-S Black on Black with Navigation
Black Tint all around (15%~45%)
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05-14-2001, 04:14 PM
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Ok everyone settle down now....
Some factual opinions by me LOL
CL-S (2001+) - Great car overall. Best blend of luxury, price, performance.
M3 - (2000) - Wicked performance machine, for the price range it is in, it IS the most bang for the buck in terms of comfort, performance, and luxury.
M3 - (1995-1999)- Nice car for those who want the performance edge. But is still overpriced as its an aging design and platform... VANOS and Double VANOS is where they are going to push the envelope in the future even more. But, for the money it has the performance/handling edge in stock form.
Everything else has its pro's and con's but these are the cars that seem to make the headlines here.. So can we all go back to discussing something other then this overly drawn out thread?
Chris
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[This message has been edited by Xephyr2K (edited 05-14-2001).]
Some factual opinions by me
LOLCL-S (2001+) - Great car overall. Best blend of luxury, price, performance.
M3 - (2000) - Wicked performance machine, for the price range it is in, it IS the most bang for the buck in terms of comfort, performance, and luxury.
M3 - (1995-1999)- Nice car for those who want the performance edge. But is still overpriced as its an aging design and platform... VANOS and Double VANOS is where they are going to push the envelope in the future even more. But, for the money it has the performance/handling edge in stock form.
Everything else has its pro's and con's but these are the cars that seem to make the headlines here.. So can we all go back to discussing something other then this overly drawn out thread?
Chris
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2001 Nighthawk Black CLS Type S - Xephyr Performance CAI, PIAA 19173(Yellow) Road Lamp Upgrades, Full Wood Trim, Spoiler, 1/4 Mile in 14.424@97.23 MPH Atco Raceway 3/10/01 Best GTECH Sprint 5.554/28/01 with Poobah watching
Xephyr Performance Intakes[This message has been edited by Xephyr2K (edited 05-14-2001).]
05-14-2001, 04:16 PM
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by saabman4ever:
YAAAAWWWWNNNNNNNNN.
Does anybody here just go out on a nice day (and we've had plenty on the east coast), roll the windows down, open up the sun roof, crank up the radio, and just DRIVE? Not worrying about displacement, liters, cylinders, fuel compression ratios, etc, etc?
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YAAAAWWWWNNNNNNNNN.
Does anybody here just go out on a nice day (and we've had plenty on the east coast), roll the windows down, open up the sun roof, crank up the radio, and just DRIVE? Not worrying about displacement, liters, cylinders, fuel compression ratios, etc, etc?
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indeed a voice of reason.....
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05-14-2001, 04:18 PM
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Zapata:
I think we'd get significant gains because the effect that the article speaks of is not an actual supercharger, rather the article describes the concept. An
intercooled-supercharger.....makes me giddy just thinking about it. I'd think we'd get close to 400hp(CAI, headers, SC)! Shit, i need to clean myself.....
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I think we'd get significant gains because the effect that the article speaks of is not an actual supercharger, rather the article describes the concept. An
intercooled-supercharger.....makes me giddy just thinking about it. I'd think we'd get close to 400hp(CAI, headers, SC)! Shit, i need to clean myself.....
</font>
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2001 Acura CL Type S
Black on Ebony
Navigation, Spoiler, Wheel locks and tint.
Acura - We are Artists of the Streets.
"Sixty-three percent of the American people approve of the job Bush is doing. Then again, 98 percent of the American people are fucking morons."
TheOnion.com
05-14-2001, 04:28 PM
#73
Unregistered Member
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by moomaster_99:
I'm saying that size of engines matter....I think that the new M3 engine is great...but if are saying that engine size doesn't matter. You are sorely mistaken. If I went by you rules, then we'll just talk about motorcycle motors all day. </font>
I'm saying that size of engines matter....I think that the new M3 engine is great...but if are saying that engine size doesn't matter. You are sorely mistaken. If I went by you rules, then we'll just talk about motorcycle motors all day. </font>
The only reason that motorcycles make such high output per liter is the fact that they have an incredibly high rpm. This is also inherent of the very small piston size/displacement in a motorcycle engine.
Of course smaller engines are able to rev at higher rpm than larger engines, thus a higher specific output. I agree with you. But we are talking about automotive engines that are naturally aspirated. Since not all engines are exactly 3.2 Liters, the only way to fairly compare them is by their HP per Liter.
Can you think of a better way to compare the specific output of a CL-S engine and a S2000 engine?
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dead CL-S
Tom2: The Voice Of Reason
05-14-2001, 04:33 PM
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True, there probably isn't a better way to compare them..I would just say perhaps cylinder number is a better way to compare. That is a class...and than hp/liter. Wouldn't that be a more accurate "apples to apples" comparison?
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2001 Cl-S Black on Black with Navigation
Black Tint all around (15%~45%)
Weapon-R Dragon Filter
Weapon-R Coil-Overs
Koni Adjustable Struts
Comptech Sway Bars
Comptech Headers (hehehe...I got something for you drchang!!)
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Tom2:
The only reason that motorcycles make such high output per liter is the fact that they have an incredibly high rpm. This is also inherent of the very small piston size/displacement in a motorcycle engine.
Of course smaller engines are able to rev at higher rpm than larger engines, thus a higher specific output. I agree with you. But we are talking about automotive engines that are naturally aspirated. Since not all engines are exactly 3.2 Liters, the only way to fairly compare them is by their HP per Liter.
Can you think of a better way to compare the specific output of a CL-S engine and a S2000 engine?
</font>
The only reason that motorcycles make such high output per liter is the fact that they have an incredibly high rpm. This is also inherent of the very small piston size/displacement in a motorcycle engine.
Of course smaller engines are able to rev at higher rpm than larger engines, thus a higher specific output. I agree with you. But we are talking about automotive engines that are naturally aspirated. Since not all engines are exactly 3.2 Liters, the only way to fairly compare them is by their HP per Liter.
Can you think of a better way to compare the specific output of a CL-S engine and a S2000 engine?
</font>
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2001 Cl-S Black on Black with Navigation
Black Tint all around (15%~45%)
Weapon-R Dragon Filter
Weapon-R Coil-Overs
Koni Adjustable Struts
Comptech Sway Bars
Comptech Headers (hehehe...I got something for you drchang!!)
05-14-2001, 04:40 PM
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by gavriil:
Hey Saab MAN wake up. Your engine is forced fed. Do we need to get into the NA vs. Forced Fed endless debate? Like I said, apples to apples. And as for price range, a 2001 Saab 9-3 SE has an MSRP of $40,570 without any options (which I think there are not many anyway).
An apples to apples comparison would be:
Comapre engines from the same category automobile. Cars like the CLK 320. Like the 330Ci auto tranny. Just make sure you compare NA engines. Then take into consideration the price and you will see that there is nothing close to a $30K entry luxury GT with 260HP from 3.2 liters in an NA form.
That is apples to apples.
</font>
Hey Saab MAN wake up. Your engine is forced fed. Do we need to get into the NA vs. Forced Fed endless debate? Like I said, apples to apples. And as for price range, a 2001 Saab 9-3 SE has an MSRP of $40,570 without any options (which I think there are not many anyway).
An apples to apples comparison would be:
Comapre engines from the same category automobile. Cars like the CLK 320. Like the 330Ci auto tranny. Just make sure you compare NA engines. Then take into consideration the price and you will see that there is nothing close to a $30K entry luxury GT with 260HP from 3.2 liters in an NA form.
That is apples to apples.
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As for the force fed vs NA argument, I didn't know that argument existed. If you re-read my original post, I wasn't making any claims or bragging. I was asking a question.
Can everyone now see how gavrill has a knack for pissing people off with his condescending and eliteist attitude?
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05-14-2001, 04:44 PM
#76
Unregistered Member
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by moomaster_99:
True, there probably isn't a better way to compare them..I would just say perhaps cylinder number is a better way to compare. That is a class...and than hp/liter. Wouldn't that be a more accurate "apples to apples" comparison?
</font>
True, there probably isn't a better way to compare them..I would just say perhaps cylinder number is a better way to compare. That is a class...and than hp/liter. Wouldn't that be a more accurate "apples to apples" comparison?
</font>
In my opinion, the only way to fairly compare is by total displacement.
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99 M3
dead CL-S
Tom2: The Voice Of Reason
05-14-2001, 04:47 PM
#77
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by saabman4ever:
Can everyone now see how gavrill has a knack for pissing people off with his condescending and eliteist attitude?
</font>
Can everyone now see how gavrill has a knack for pissing people off with his condescending and eliteist attitude?
</font>
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Tom2: The Voice Of Reason
05-14-2001, 04:51 PM
#79
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by soopa:
Who is it that puts out 394hp from a 3586cc engine?</font>
Who is it that puts out 394hp from a 3586cc engine?
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If yes, then my guess would be Porsche.
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Tom2: The Voice Of Reason
05-14-2001, 04:59 PM
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by gavriil:
Very much so. That is why my other car is a Sebring Convertible. No fancy tech, no notable power no nothing. Just top down cruizing. Yaaaawwwnn to the second power.
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Very much so. That is why my other car is a Sebring Convertible. No fancy tech, no notable power no nothing. Just top down cruizing. Yaaaawwwnn to the second power.
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