Here is how your engine makes 260 HP from 3.2 liters
05-14-2001, 12:39 AM
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Here is how your engine makes 260 HP from 3.2 liters
ENGINE ARCHITECTURE
An advanced 3.2-liter, 24-valve, all-aluminum, 60-degree V-6 engine powers both the 3.2 CL and the Type S. Remarkably compact and lightweight, the CL power plant and transmission incorporate a wide variety of advanced technologies, including the VTEC system, high flow air filter and throttle body along with a unique, dual-stage induction system exclusively on the Type S. Similar to the powertrain in the 3.2 TL performance luxury sedan, the CL's performance capabilities have vastly improved from the previous generation 2.3 CL and 3.0 CL coupes.
ENGINE BLOCK
Die-cast and heat-treated, the compact aluminum block is extremely rigid, with a high natural frequency and minimal resonant vibration. The V-6's iron cylinder liners have their bore pitch set at a close 98-mm spacing to reduce overall engine size. The free-revving CL engine is oversquare with a bore of 89 mm and a stroke of 86 mm to give the engine a total displacement of 3210 cc. The CL employs an engine cylinder bank V-angle of 60-degrees, allowing for a narrower angle with improvements in engine smoothness and reduction in overall bulk and weight. The block has an unusually short deck height, resulting in an overall reduction in the height and width of the assembled engine. The Type S engine also incorporates separate, spin-cast cylinder wall liners that are cast into the engine block during the initial manufacturing stage. These spin-cast liners allow for additional weight reduction over traditional engine block cylinder walls and provide added heat rejection to avoid engine knocking. Additionally, by reducing the number of machined surfaces, spin-cast cylinder liners ease the manufacturing process.
CRANKSHAFT/CONNECTING RODS/PISTONS
A rigid, forged crankshaft and narrow 19 mm connecting rods allow a reduction in overall engine length as well as width. The rods in the V-6 do not employ the use of conventional nut-and-bolt type fasteners, but instead utilize lighter bolts (without nuts) called plastic-region fasteners. This allows a downsizing of the rod bolts while maintaining the proper clamping force and strength margins.
The V-6 incorporates compact pistons made from lightweight, cast aluminum alloy. The unique dome shaped design allows for maximum volumetric efficiency in the combustion chamber, producing a 9.8:1 combustion ratio in the 3.2 CL. The Type S achieves a 10.5:1 ratio thanks to an increased dome shape on the piston allowing a more condensed combustion volume in the chamber. The pistons utilize a 3-ring design with the Type S engine incorporating a unique angled top ring for an improved seal within the cylinder to accommodate the higher combustion pressure.
CYLINDER HEAD
The 3.2-liter V-6 pressure-cast aluminum alloy cylinder heads reflect Acura's latest thinking in engine design. Utilizing 4 valves per cylinder and a compact combustion chamber with a generous squish area, the cylinder head is a key component for the high output CL engines. The Type S also features special, race designed intake valves to further improve flow into the combustion chamber. The single camshaft in each cylinder head is installed from the timing-belt end of the engine, eliminating the need for bolt-on caps - a savings of weight of complexity. Driven by the crankshaft via a glass-fiber reinforced toothed belt, the cams actuate the valves via friction reducing roller followers.
VARIABLE VALVE TIMING AND LIFT ELECTRONIC CONTROL (VTEC™)
The Variable Valve Timing and Lift Electronic Control (VTEC™) valve train is a major contributing factor to the CL's remarkable combination of high power delivery and fuel economy. With the lift and opening duration of the larger intake valves altered automatically based on engine rpm, the engine develops strong low-speed torque without sacrificing high rpm power.
The VTEC-equipped engine delivers a substantial amount of horsepower, coupled with greatly increased torque at low-to-mid speed range. At low rpm, the VTEC intake valves follow a set of low-lift, short-duration cam lobes with timing that optimizes cylinder filling. Additionally, the timing of the intake valves is staggered and their lift is asymmetric, creating a swirl effect within the combustion chambers. This increases burn speed and improves combustion stability and allowable EGR rate. As the engine accelerates through 4400 rpm (4800 rpm on Type S), the intake rocker arms transition to actuation by high-lift, long-duration cam lobes designed to optimize high rpm output.
The exclusive camshafts found in the Type S engine further increase power output by providing longer intake valve duration, more vale overlap and additional lift for the exhaust valves.
DUAL-STAGE INDUCTION SYSTEM
Fitted exclusively on the Type S model, this revolutionary induction system is the heart of the class-leading 260 horsepower engine. This system uses a large, two-chamber intake plenum separated by a valve, which opens at 3800 and is actuated by a separate electric motor.
During this valve's closed-stage at low to mid engine speed operation, a Resonance Charge condition exists when pressure pulsations between cylinders assist the adjoining cylinder for each bank. In doing so, air filling the cylinders increases with the resonance energy (Helmholz principle).
When this valve opens during mid to high engine speed operation, an Inertial Charge condition is achieved and increased air filling occurs when the manifold volume (plenum) is increased and the resonance condition is eliminated. This phenomenon utilizes the high flow mass to pressurize the manifold port air, producing a natural "supercharger" effect.
This increased airflow and air filling is the fundamental reason for the efficient combustion and subsequent power. Additional improvements were made to reduce air intake restriction and increase total air flow volume through a larger 64mm bore throttle body, along with a low restriction, overall air induction network, including a free flow air filter and air flow tube.
PROGRAMED FUEL INJECTION (PGM-FI)
Controlled by a 16-bit, 32 MHz Central Processor Unit (CPU), the CL's Programmed Fuel Injection (PGM-FI) monitors and controls numerous vehicle dynamics. Throttle position, engine temperature, intake manifold pressure, and atmospheric pressure, exhaust gas oxygen content and intake air temperatures are all processed by the PGM-FI. While tracking the operation of the engine with position sensors on the crankshaft and both camshafts, the PGM-FI CPU is also in constant communication with a similar CPU that controls the 5-speed Sequential SportShift automatic transmission. It controls fuel delivery by injectors mounted in the cast aluminum, tuned-length intake manifold featuring a large plenum chamber to help maximize airflow and increase power and torque.
EXHAUST SYSTEM
The 3.2 CL's high-flow dual-exhaust system is designed to offer lightweight, low restriction performance while ensuring excellent emissions and noise control. To help the Type S achieve additional horsepower, it receives greater exhaust flow capabilities through a larger diameter exhaust pipe, an increased flow catalytic converter and ultra-high flow capacity dual mufflers. These enhancements to the Type S increase exhaust flow out of the engine by over 30 percent compared to the 3.2 CL. The Type S exhaust note has also been tuned to provide an aggressive, performance-oriented sound while minimizing excessive noise at cruising speed.
DIRECT IGNITION SYSTEM/KNOCK CONTROL
Proper ignition spark timing is critical to engine performance and emission control. This timing constantly changes from one instant to the next depending on a multitude of factors. If there is too little spark advance for the conditions, then efficiency suffers; if there is too much spark, then the onset of knocking (or pinging) can result in overheating and engine damage. To ensure a properly timed spark, the CL relies on a new generation knock-control system. Based on a centrally positioned sensor in the block that "hears" the first traces of knocking, the ignition timing is advanced to the point of peak efficiency, but not beyond, even if fuel quality is less than the specified unleaded premium. This fine spark control allows the CL to operate safely (and more efficiently) with greater spark advance than its predecessor. Another refinement to the ignition system is the adoption of improved direct ignition coil units. These compact and reliable units are positioned directly in the spark plug access bores.
CONTROL OF NOISE, VIBRATION AND HARSHNESS
Though the CL's powertrain was engineered for uncompromised horsepower and consistent torque, special effort was devoted to attaining higher standards of Noise, Vibration and Harshness (NVH) control. Key engine attributes were analyzed to develop engineering targets for smoothness and noise control. Both the 3.2 CL and the Type S engines reflect this effort with features like the compact, rigid aluminum block and its unusually high resonant frequency, rigid forged crankshaft, die-cast accessory mounts and stiff cast aluminum oil pan.
100,000-MILE TUNE-UP INTERVALS
The new CL offers tune-up intervals of 105,000 miles; during that time only routine inspections and fluid changes are required. The roller-follower design of the VTEC valve train cuts friction and wear to the point that the screw-type tappet clearance adjusters do not require inspection until 105,000 miles, at which point the platinum-tipped spark plugs are also due for replacement.
------------------
Gabriel
CL Type S
An advanced 3.2-liter, 24-valve, all-aluminum, 60-degree V-6 engine powers both the 3.2 CL and the Type S. Remarkably compact and lightweight, the CL power plant and transmission incorporate a wide variety of advanced technologies, including the VTEC system, high flow air filter and throttle body along with a unique, dual-stage induction system exclusively on the Type S. Similar to the powertrain in the 3.2 TL performance luxury sedan, the CL's performance capabilities have vastly improved from the previous generation 2.3 CL and 3.0 CL coupes.
ENGINE BLOCK
Die-cast and heat-treated, the compact aluminum block is extremely rigid, with a high natural frequency and minimal resonant vibration. The V-6's iron cylinder liners have their bore pitch set at a close 98-mm spacing to reduce overall engine size. The free-revving CL engine is oversquare with a bore of 89 mm and a stroke of 86 mm to give the engine a total displacement of 3210 cc. The CL employs an engine cylinder bank V-angle of 60-degrees, allowing for a narrower angle with improvements in engine smoothness and reduction in overall bulk and weight. The block has an unusually short deck height, resulting in an overall reduction in the height and width of the assembled engine. The Type S engine also incorporates separate, spin-cast cylinder wall liners that are cast into the engine block during the initial manufacturing stage. These spin-cast liners allow for additional weight reduction over traditional engine block cylinder walls and provide added heat rejection to avoid engine knocking. Additionally, by reducing the number of machined surfaces, spin-cast cylinder liners ease the manufacturing process.
CRANKSHAFT/CONNECTING RODS/PISTONS
A rigid, forged crankshaft and narrow 19 mm connecting rods allow a reduction in overall engine length as well as width. The rods in the V-6 do not employ the use of conventional nut-and-bolt type fasteners, but instead utilize lighter bolts (without nuts) called plastic-region fasteners. This allows a downsizing of the rod bolts while maintaining the proper clamping force and strength margins.
The V-6 incorporates compact pistons made from lightweight, cast aluminum alloy. The unique dome shaped design allows for maximum volumetric efficiency in the combustion chamber, producing a 9.8:1 combustion ratio in the 3.2 CL. The Type S achieves a 10.5:1 ratio thanks to an increased dome shape on the piston allowing a more condensed combustion volume in the chamber. The pistons utilize a 3-ring design with the Type S engine incorporating a unique angled top ring for an improved seal within the cylinder to accommodate the higher combustion pressure.
CYLINDER HEAD
The 3.2-liter V-6 pressure-cast aluminum alloy cylinder heads reflect Acura's latest thinking in engine design. Utilizing 4 valves per cylinder and a compact combustion chamber with a generous squish area, the cylinder head is a key component for the high output CL engines. The Type S also features special, race designed intake valves to further improve flow into the combustion chamber. The single camshaft in each cylinder head is installed from the timing-belt end of the engine, eliminating the need for bolt-on caps - a savings of weight of complexity. Driven by the crankshaft via a glass-fiber reinforced toothed belt, the cams actuate the valves via friction reducing roller followers.
VARIABLE VALVE TIMING AND LIFT ELECTRONIC CONTROL (VTEC™)
The Variable Valve Timing and Lift Electronic Control (VTEC™) valve train is a major contributing factor to the CL's remarkable combination of high power delivery and fuel economy. With the lift and opening duration of the larger intake valves altered automatically based on engine rpm, the engine develops strong low-speed torque without sacrificing high rpm power.
The VTEC-equipped engine delivers a substantial amount of horsepower, coupled with greatly increased torque at low-to-mid speed range. At low rpm, the VTEC intake valves follow a set of low-lift, short-duration cam lobes with timing that optimizes cylinder filling. Additionally, the timing of the intake valves is staggered and their lift is asymmetric, creating a swirl effect within the combustion chambers. This increases burn speed and improves combustion stability and allowable EGR rate. As the engine accelerates through 4400 rpm (4800 rpm on Type S), the intake rocker arms transition to actuation by high-lift, long-duration cam lobes designed to optimize high rpm output.
The exclusive camshafts found in the Type S engine further increase power output by providing longer intake valve duration, more vale overlap and additional lift for the exhaust valves.
DUAL-STAGE INDUCTION SYSTEM
Fitted exclusively on the Type S model, this revolutionary induction system is the heart of the class-leading 260 horsepower engine. This system uses a large, two-chamber intake plenum separated by a valve, which opens at 3800 and is actuated by a separate electric motor.
During this valve's closed-stage at low to mid engine speed operation, a Resonance Charge condition exists when pressure pulsations between cylinders assist the adjoining cylinder for each bank. In doing so, air filling the cylinders increases with the resonance energy (Helmholz principle).
When this valve opens during mid to high engine speed operation, an Inertial Charge condition is achieved and increased air filling occurs when the manifold volume (plenum) is increased and the resonance condition is eliminated. This phenomenon utilizes the high flow mass to pressurize the manifold port air, producing a natural "supercharger" effect.
This increased airflow and air filling is the fundamental reason for the efficient combustion and subsequent power. Additional improvements were made to reduce air intake restriction and increase total air flow volume through a larger 64mm bore throttle body, along with a low restriction, overall air induction network, including a free flow air filter and air flow tube.
PROGRAMED FUEL INJECTION (PGM-FI)
Controlled by a 16-bit, 32 MHz Central Processor Unit (CPU), the CL's Programmed Fuel Injection (PGM-FI) monitors and controls numerous vehicle dynamics. Throttle position, engine temperature, intake manifold pressure, and atmospheric pressure, exhaust gas oxygen content and intake air temperatures are all processed by the PGM-FI. While tracking the operation of the engine with position sensors on the crankshaft and both camshafts, the PGM-FI CPU is also in constant communication with a similar CPU that controls the 5-speed Sequential SportShift automatic transmission. It controls fuel delivery by injectors mounted in the cast aluminum, tuned-length intake manifold featuring a large plenum chamber to help maximize airflow and increase power and torque.
EXHAUST SYSTEM
The 3.2 CL's high-flow dual-exhaust system is designed to offer lightweight, low restriction performance while ensuring excellent emissions and noise control. To help the Type S achieve additional horsepower, it receives greater exhaust flow capabilities through a larger diameter exhaust pipe, an increased flow catalytic converter and ultra-high flow capacity dual mufflers. These enhancements to the Type S increase exhaust flow out of the engine by over 30 percent compared to the 3.2 CL. The Type S exhaust note has also been tuned to provide an aggressive, performance-oriented sound while minimizing excessive noise at cruising speed.
DIRECT IGNITION SYSTEM/KNOCK CONTROL
Proper ignition spark timing is critical to engine performance and emission control. This timing constantly changes from one instant to the next depending on a multitude of factors. If there is too little spark advance for the conditions, then efficiency suffers; if there is too much spark, then the onset of knocking (or pinging) can result in overheating and engine damage. To ensure a properly timed spark, the CL relies on a new generation knock-control system. Based on a centrally positioned sensor in the block that "hears" the first traces of knocking, the ignition timing is advanced to the point of peak efficiency, but not beyond, even if fuel quality is less than the specified unleaded premium. This fine spark control allows the CL to operate safely (and more efficiently) with greater spark advance than its predecessor. Another refinement to the ignition system is the adoption of improved direct ignition coil units. These compact and reliable units are positioned directly in the spark plug access bores.
CONTROL OF NOISE, VIBRATION AND HARSHNESS
Though the CL's powertrain was engineered for uncompromised horsepower and consistent torque, special effort was devoted to attaining higher standards of Noise, Vibration and Harshness (NVH) control. Key engine attributes were analyzed to develop engineering targets for smoothness and noise control. Both the 3.2 CL and the Type S engines reflect this effort with features like the compact, rigid aluminum block and its unusually high resonant frequency, rigid forged crankshaft, die-cast accessory mounts and stiff cast aluminum oil pan.
100,000-MILE TUNE-UP INTERVALS
The new CL offers tune-up intervals of 105,000 miles; during that time only routine inspections and fluid changes are required. The roller-follower design of the VTEC valve train cuts friction and wear to the point that the screw-type tappet clearance adjusters do not require inspection until 105,000 miles, at which point the platinum-tipped spark plugs are also due for replacement.
------------------
Gabriel
CL Type S
05-14-2001, 12:42 AM
#2
Unregistered Member
Nice information (where ever you got it from)
But 260 HP from 3.2L is nothing special in this day and age.
------------------
99 M3
dead CL-S
Tom2: The Voice Of Reason
But 260 HP from 3.2L is nothing special in this day and age.
------------------
99 M3
dead CL-S
Tom2: The Voice Of Reason
05-14-2001, 12:56 AM
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someone should tell that to gm.
what other (naturally aspirated) cars can achieve this? the cl-s, m3, that's the only 2 i can think of.
i don't think that's very common in this day and age.
[This message has been edited by mrdeeno (edited 05-13-2001).]
what other (naturally aspirated) cars can achieve this? the cl-s, m3, that's the only 2 i can think of.
i don't think that's very common in this day and age.
[This message has been edited by mrdeeno (edited 05-13-2001).]
05-14-2001, 01:02 AM
#4
Unregistered Member
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by mrdeeno:
someone should tell that to gm.
what other (naturally aspirated) cars can achieve this? the cl-s, m3, that's the only 2 i can think of.
i don't think that's very common in this day and age.
[This message has been edited by mrdeeno (edited 05-13-2001).]</font>
someone should tell that to gm.
what other (naturally aspirated) cars can achieve this? the cl-s, m3, that's the only 2 i can think of.
i don't think that's very common in this day and age.
[This message has been edited by mrdeeno (edited 05-13-2001).]</font>
I didn't say it was common. I just said that it's not special.
------------------
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Tom2: The Voice Of Reason
05-14-2001, 01:12 AM
#6
Unregistered Member
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by mrdeeno:
i get it...a flying delorean would be special, right?
</font>
i get it...a flying delorean would be special, right?
</font>
260 is just no big deal..... get it?
------------------
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Tom2: The Voice Of Reason
05-14-2001, 01:24 AM
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GM needs a supercharger to get 240hp out of a 3.8L V6. GM sucks. Hehe
-J
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-J
------------------
2001 CL-S Aegean Blue/black interior spoiler, wheel locks, no-navi
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05-14-2001, 02:44 AM
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[This message has been edited by TL_Type_S (edited 05-14-2001).]
05-14-2001, 02:53 AM
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Tom2:
No. Since I've already stated 330+ HP from 3.2L naturally aspirated, then I guess about 375+ HP would be special.
260 is just no big deal..... get it?
</font>
No. Since I've already stated 330+ HP from 3.2L naturally aspirated, then I guess about 375+ HP would be special.
260 is just no big deal..... get it?
</font>
M3 --> God's answer to World Hunger and producer of 333 hp = $55K (if you're lucky)
you get what you pay for.
------------------
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05-14-2001, 08:47 AM
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by JRock:
GM needs a supercharger to get 240hp out of a 3.8L V6. GM sucks. Hehe
-J
</font>
GM needs a supercharger to get 240hp out of a 3.8L V6. GM sucks. Hehe
-J
</font>
GM does suck. But, there are far better examples than the 3.8L.
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05-14-2001, 09:07 AM
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gm alraedy has it, the new six thats in the mid sized suv has 275 hp
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05-14-2001, 09:36 AM
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">The engine you speak of has been around for a long time. </font>
-J
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05-14-2001, 10:18 AM
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The Honda S2000 has 120 HP per liter. I think this is the current record holder. 240 hp from a 2 liter four.
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05-14-2001, 10:42 AM
#15
Cost Drivers!!!!
Tom,
not exactly sure how you can say that 260 from 3.2 is not significant. How can you even compare the two designs? The engine's are completely different......compression ratios aren't even the same. Moreover, the M3 engine's are gas hogs!!!! Gas guzzler tax. Friggen elitest.....go back to the BMW dealership
------------------
----
'01 Silver CL-Type S
!BEWARE THE SILVER SWORD!
not exactly sure how you can say that 260 from 3.2 is not significant. How can you even compare the two designs? The engine's are completely different......compression ratios aren't even the same. Moreover, the M3 engine's are gas hogs!!!! Gas guzzler tax. Friggen elitest.....go back to the BMW dealership
------------------
----
'01 Silver CL-Type S
!BEWARE THE SILVER SWORD!
05-14-2001, 10:58 AM
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Tom2:
No. Since I've already stated 330+ HP from 3.2L naturally aspirated, then I guess about 375+ HP would be special.
260 is just no big deal..... get it?
</font>
No. Since I've already stated 330+ HP from 3.2L naturally aspirated, then I guess about 375+ HP would be special.
260 is just no big deal..... get it?
</font>
I think I should move my meet on the 26th to the Pocono mountains, are you available that day? Also, are you coming to my meet?------------------
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05-14-2001, 11:13 AM
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YAAAAWWWWNNNNNNNNN.
Does anybody here just go out on a nice day (and we've had plenty on the east coast), roll the windows down, open up the sun roof, crank up the radio, and just DRIVE? Not worrying about displacement, liters, cylinders, fuel compression ratios, etc, etc?
------------------
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The UNBIASED voice of reason
Does anybody here just go out on a nice day (and we've had plenty on the east coast), roll the windows down, open up the sun roof, crank up the radio, and just DRIVE? Not worrying about displacement, liters, cylinders, fuel compression ratios, etc, etc?
------------------
2001 SAAB 9-3SE HOT
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05-14-2001, 11:17 AM
#18
Cost Drivers!!!!
saabman,
Did it yesterday
It was a nice day....kinda cold later on but during the day it was nice. I love my car
------------------
----
'01 Silver CL-Type S
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Did it yesterday
It was a nice day....kinda cold later on but during the day it was nice. I love my car ------------------
----
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05-14-2001, 11:28 AM
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Zapata:
saabman,
Did it yesterday It was a nice day....kinda cold later on but during the day it was nice. I love my car
</font>
saabman,
Did it yesterday
It was a nice day....kinda cold later on but during the day it was nice. I love my car </font>
And I bet not once did you think of why or how your engine makes 260bhp. You're just happy it does. (Don't get me wrong, I love learning about this stuff as much as the next guy, but I don't see the point of getting into inane arguments over it.)
------------------
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05-14-2001, 12:22 PM
#20
Cost Drivers!!!!
Most of the time i don't care The car rides well, good acceleration, comforatable and good MPG.....i'm happy. It's just when hosers like tom put everything down it get's a little irritating and something needs to be said, ya know?
------------------
----
'01 Silver CL-Type S
!BEWARE THE SILVER SWORD!
The car rides well, good acceleration, comforatable and good MPG.....i'm happy. It's just when hosers like tom put everything down it get's a little irritating and something needs to be said, ya know?------------------
----
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05-14-2001, 12:46 PM
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Is our car technically Naturally aspirated? Gavriil's post states that the FI produces a supercharger effect. Along the same lines, how much gain can we expect from a supercharger if we're already pushing the normal aspiration of our engines? Just curious...
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---------
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---------
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05-14-2001, 01:20 PM
#22
Cost Drivers!!!!
I think we'd get significant gains because the effect that the article speaks of is not an actual supercharger, rather the article describes the concept. An
intercooled-supercharger.....makes me giddy just thinking about it. I'd think we'd get close to 400hp(CAI, headers, SC)! Shit, i need to clean myself.....
------------------
----
'01 Silver CL-Type S
!BEWARE THE SILVER SWORD!
intercooled-supercharger.....makes me giddy just thinking about it. I'd think we'd get close to 400hp(CAI, headers, SC)! Shit, i need to clean myself.....
------------------
----
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!BEWARE THE SILVER SWORD!
05-14-2001, 02:43 PM
#23
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Zapata:
Tom,
not exactly sure how you can say that 260 from 3.2 is not significant. How can you even compare the two designs? The engine's are completely different......compression ratios aren't even the same. Moreover, the M3 engine's are gas hogs!!!! Gas guzzler tax. Friggen elitest.....go back to the BMW dealership
</font>
Tom,
not exactly sure how you can say that 260 from 3.2 is not significant. How can you even compare the two designs? The engine's are completely different......compression ratios aren't even the same. Moreover, the M3 engine's are gas hogs!!!! Gas guzzler tax. Friggen elitest.....go back to the BMW dealership
</font>
Zapata, forget it. There is no hope with this obstruction. There is nothing ever made that is better than an M3. It does not matter if I bring up a Boeing 777, it is still inferior even if it is an irrelevant comparison. The new F60 (or Enzo its name could be) by Ferrari will STILL be inferior. There will be something that will be found (like engine specific output, that is, HP per liter or Torque per liter) that will be stated and make the M3 look superior.
Forget it. Like I have said before. Apathy my friend and not even coffe for Midas technicians. Beyond hopeless.
------------------
Gabriel
CL Type S
05-14-2001, 02:45 PM
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by saabman4ever:
YAAAAWWWWNNNNNNNNN.
Does anybody here just go out on a nice day (and we've had plenty on the east coast), roll the windows down, open up the sun roof, crank up the radio, and just DRIVE? Not worrying about displacement, liters, cylinders, fuel compression ratios, etc, etc?
</font>
YAAAAWWWWNNNNNNNNN.
Does anybody here just go out on a nice day (and we've had plenty on the east coast), roll the windows down, open up the sun roof, crank up the radio, and just DRIVE? Not worrying about displacement, liters, cylinders, fuel compression ratios, etc, etc?
</font>
Very much so. That is why my other car is a Sebring Convertible. No fancy tech, no notable power no nothing. Just top down cruizing. Yaaaawwwnn to the second power.
------------------
Gabriel
CL Type S
05-14-2001, 02:49 PM
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Yaaaawwwwwnnnn....
So hows the weather?
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So hows the weather?
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05-14-2001, 02:50 PM
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by MyBigBlack S:
Is our car technically Naturally aspirated? Gavriil's post states that the FI produces a supercharger effect. Along the same lines, how much gain can we expect from a supercharger if we're already pushing the normal aspiration of our engines? Just curious...
</font>
Is our car technically Naturally aspirated? Gavriil's post states that the FI produces a supercharger effect. Along the same lines, how much gain can we expect from a supercharger if we're already pushing the normal aspiration of our engines? Just curious...
</font>
Our car is 100% Naturally Aspirated.
It is just that smart and real (Acura) engineers have found efficient, inexpensive, effective ways to provide high output from the already "fixed" (depending on altitude and other variables) 14.7 psi atmosheric pressure.
Oh and above all, provide all that for a $30K car. NOT a $50K MSRP cocky QUEEN that sells for $63K at the lot from some pimp dealer sales rep. and people still drooling like...dont get me started. BMW can bite me from now on.
------------------
Gabriel
CL Type S
05-14-2001, 02:59 PM
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Every chance I get.. 
------------------
2001 Cl-S Black on Black with Navigation
Black Tint all around (15%~45%)
Weapon-R Dragon Filter
Weapon-R Coil-Overs
Koni Adjustable Struts
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Comptech Headers (hehehe...I got something for you drchang!!)
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by saabman4ever:
YAAAAWWWWNNNNNNNNN.
Does anybody here just go out on a nice day (and we've had plenty on the east coast), roll the windows down, open up the sun roof, crank up the radio, and just DRIVE? Not worrying about displacement, liters, cylinders, fuel compression ratios, etc, etc?
</font>
YAAAAWWWWNNNNNNNNN.
Does anybody here just go out on a nice day (and we've had plenty on the east coast), roll the windows down, open up the sun roof, crank up the radio, and just DRIVE? Not worrying about displacement, liters, cylinders, fuel compression ratios, etc, etc?
</font>
------------------
2001 Cl-S Black on Black with Navigation
Black Tint all around (15%~45%)
Weapon-R Dragon Filter
Weapon-R Coil-Overs
Koni Adjustable Struts
Comptech Sway Bars
Comptech Headers (hehehe...I got something for you drchang!!)
05-14-2001, 02:59 PM
#28
Unregistered Member
gavriil,
You never miss the chance to prove your ignorance.
Since not all engines are 3.2 Liters, then we must use Horsepower per Liter to compare engines in a fair manner.
The CL-S engine= 81 HP per Liter
The M3 engine= 104 HP per Liter
The S2000 engine= 120 HP per Liter
(note that the S2000 is not more expensive than the CL-S)
The Celica engine= 100 HP per liter
The Integra Type R= 108 HP per liter
In that list of cars, the CL-S engine is less than average. Note that I didn't use any high $$$$ cars to compare with the CL-S. As a matter of fact, the Celica and Integra are quite a bit LESS expensive than the CL-S.
I stand by my original statement that 260 HP from 3.2 Liters in not SPECIAL. It's actually quite ordinary.
------------------
99 M3
dead CL-S
Tom2: The Voice Of Reason
You never miss the chance to prove your ignorance.
Since not all engines are 3.2 Liters, then we must use Horsepower per Liter to compare engines in a fair manner.
The CL-S engine= 81 HP per Liter
The M3 engine= 104 HP per Liter
The S2000 engine= 120 HP per Liter
(note that the S2000 is not more expensive than the CL-S)
The Celica engine= 100 HP per liter
The Integra Type R= 108 HP per liter
In that list of cars, the CL-S engine is less than average. Note that I didn't use any high $$$$ cars to compare with the CL-S. As a matter of fact, the Celica and Integra are quite a bit LESS expensive than the CL-S.
I stand by my original statement that 260 HP from 3.2 Liters in not SPECIAL. It's actually quite ordinary.
------------------
99 M3
dead CL-S
Tom2: The Voice Of Reason
05-14-2001, 03:00 PM
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Bulls Eye! Get ready to be flamed now!
------------------
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Get ready to be flamed now!
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Tom2:
gavriil,
You never miss the chance to prove your ignorance.
Since not all engines are 3.2 Liters, then we must use Horsepower per Liter to compare engines in a fair manner.
The CL-S engine= 81 HP per Liter
The M3 engine= 104 HP per Liter
The S2000 engine= 120 HP per Liter
(note that the S2000 is not more expensive than the CL-S)
The Celica engine= 100 HP per liter
The Integra Type R= 108 HP per liter
In that list of cars, the CL-S engine is less than average. Note that I didn't use any high $$$$ cars to compare with the CL-S. As a matter of fact, the Celica and Integra are quite a bit LESS expensive than the CL-S.
I stand by my original statement that 260 HP from 3.2 Liters in not SPECIAL. It's actually quite ordinary.
</font>
gavriil,
You never miss the chance to prove your ignorance.
Since not all engines are 3.2 Liters, then we must use Horsepower per Liter to compare engines in a fair manner.
The CL-S engine= 81 HP per Liter
The M3 engine= 104 HP per Liter
The S2000 engine= 120 HP per Liter
(note that the S2000 is not more expensive than the CL-S)
The Celica engine= 100 HP per liter
The Integra Type R= 108 HP per liter
In that list of cars, the CL-S engine is less than average. Note that I didn't use any high $$$$ cars to compare with the CL-S. As a matter of fact, the Celica and Integra are quite a bit LESS expensive than the CL-S.
I stand by my original statement that 260 HP from 3.2 Liters in not SPECIAL. It's actually quite ordinary.
</font>
------------------
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Forums are now open at www.BMWExperience.com
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05-14-2001, 03:04 PM
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I'm not saying what you say is not true...Tom, but you are comparing 4-cylinders. 4-cylinders are just motorcycle engines with a little more displacement and lower revs. I mean, look at GSX-R 750...750cc!!! that makes 150hp!!!! That's freaking 200hp/liter. 6-cylinders and bigger engines have a harder time trying to achieve that goal. That's why American cars for so long have tried to achieve the 100hp/cid. I love the new M3...but even you have to admit it is pricey.
------------------
2001 Cl-S Black on Black with Navigation
Black Tint all around (15%~45%)
Weapon-R Dragon Filter
Weapon-R Coil-Overs
Koni Adjustable Struts
Comptech Sway Bars
Comptech Headers (hehehe...I got something for you drchang!!)
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Tom2:
gavriil,
You never miss the chance to prove your ignorance.
Since not all engines are 3.2 Liters, then we must use Horsepower per Liter to compare engines in a fair manner.
The CL-S engine= 81 HP per Liter
The M3 engine= 104 HP per Liter
The S2000 engine= 120 HP per Liter
(note that the S2000 is not more expensive than the CL-S)
The Celica engine= 100 HP per liter
The Integra Type R= 108 HP per liter
In that list of cars, the CL-S engine is less than average. Note that I didn't use any high $$$$ cars to compare with the CL-S. As a matter of fact, the Celica and Integra are quite a bit LESS expensive than the CL-S.
I stand by my original statement that 260 HP from 3.2 Liters in not SPECIAL. It's actually quite ordinary.
</font>
gavriil,
You never miss the chance to prove your ignorance.
Since not all engines are 3.2 Liters, then we must use Horsepower per Liter to compare engines in a fair manner.
The CL-S engine= 81 HP per Liter
The M3 engine= 104 HP per Liter
The S2000 engine= 120 HP per Liter
(note that the S2000 is not more expensive than the CL-S)
The Celica engine= 100 HP per liter
The Integra Type R= 108 HP per liter
In that list of cars, the CL-S engine is less than average. Note that I didn't use any high $$$$ cars to compare with the CL-S. As a matter of fact, the Celica and Integra are quite a bit LESS expensive than the CL-S.
I stand by my original statement that 260 HP from 3.2 Liters in not SPECIAL. It's actually quite ordinary.
</font>
------------------
2001 Cl-S Black on Black with Navigation
Black Tint all around (15%~45%)
Weapon-R Dragon Filter
Weapon-R Coil-Overs
Koni Adjustable Struts
Comptech Sway Bars
Comptech Headers (hehehe...I got something for you drchang!!)
05-14-2001, 03:04 PM
#31
Unregistered Member
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by eclipse23:
Oh goodie the killjoy is back, can you remind me how great BMW is again and how much Acura sucks? </font>
Oh goodie the killjoy is back, can you remind me how great BMW is again and how much Acura sucks? </font>
Actually, Honda has the S2000 with puts out more HP per liter than any engine I can think of, even more than the top BMW engines.
------------------
99 M3
dead CL-S
Tom2: The Voice Of Reason
05-14-2001, 03:05 PM
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Tom2:
gavriil,
You never miss the chance to prove your ignorance.
Since not all engines are 3.2 Liters, then we must use Horsepower per Liter to compare engines in a fair manner.
The CL-S engine= 81 HP per Liter
The M3 engine= 104 HP per Liter
The S2000 engine= 120 HP per Liter
(note that the S2000 is not more expensive than the CL-S)
The Celica engine= 100 HP per liter
The Integra Type R= 108 HP per liter
In that list of cars, the CL-S engine is less than average. Note that I didn't use any high $$$$ cars to compare with the CL-S. As a matter of fact, the Celica and Integra are quite a bit LESS expensive than the CL-S.
I stand by my original statement that 260 HP from 3.2 Liters in not SPECIAL. It's actually quite ordinary.
</font>
gavriil,
You never miss the chance to prove your ignorance.
Since not all engines are 3.2 Liters, then we must use Horsepower per Liter to compare engines in a fair manner.
The CL-S engine= 81 HP per Liter
The M3 engine= 104 HP per Liter
The S2000 engine= 120 HP per Liter
(note that the S2000 is not more expensive than the CL-S)
The Celica engine= 100 HP per liter
The Integra Type R= 108 HP per liter
In that list of cars, the CL-S engine is less than average. Note that I didn't use any high $$$$ cars to compare with the CL-S. As a matter of fact, the Celica and Integra are quite a bit LESS expensive than the CL-S.
I stand by my original statement that 260 HP from 3.2 Liters in not SPECIAL. It's actually quite ordinary.
</font>
True, but to get anything really meaningful from those numbers divide out by the weights and assume all use the same drive gear ratios, drag coeff, and lateral tractive coeff. (At the track ofcourse it is easiest to prove though LOL
)------------------
2001 Nighthawk Black CLS Type S - Xephyr Performance CAI, PIAA 19173(Yellow) Road Lamp Upgrades, Full Wood Trim, Spoiler, 1/4 Mile in 14.424@97.23 MPH Atco Raceway 3/10/01 Best GTECH Sprint 5.554/28/01 with Poobah watching
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05-14-2001, 03:06 PM
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New M3 = Lots of $$$ 
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05-14-2001, 03:10 PM
#34
Unregistered Member
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by M3Sins:
Bulls Eye! Get ready to be flamed now!
</font>
Bulls Eye!
Get ready to be flamed now! </font>
I've got my flame retardant suit on......These guys just hate the facts, don't they?
If everyone on this board was like gavriil and eclipse, there would be nothing but ass-kissing sessions here, 24/7.
Wake up people!! The CL-S is not the ultimate super-car! It's simply a nice, luxury touring car w/decent performance and a reasonable price tag. At least I can admit it......
------------------
99 M3
dead CL-S
Tom2: The Voice Of Reason
05-14-2001, 03:11 PM
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by M3Sins:
New M3 = Lots of $$$
</font>
New M3 = Lots of $$$
</font>
New M3 = Lots of $$ now that is doing you justice because the prices of the 95+ M3's are climbing up again after people got sticker shock looking at the new ones
New M3 = Silly fast + ridiculous razor sharp handling + ass-packing gauze price LOL
Chris
------------------
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Xephyr Performance Intakes
05-14-2001, 03:12 PM
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by moomaster_99:
I'm not saying what you say is not true...Tom, but you are comparing 4-cylinders. 4-cylinders are just motorcycle engines with a little more displacement and lower revs. I mean, look at GSX-R 750...750cc!!! that makes 150hp!!!! That's freaking 200hp/liter. 6-cylinders and bigger engines have a harder time trying to achieve that goal. That's why American cars for so long have tried to achieve the 100hp/cid. I love the new M3...but even you have to admit it is pricey.
</font>
I'm not saying what you say is not true...Tom, but you are comparing 4-cylinders. 4-cylinders are just motorcycle engines with a little more displacement and lower revs. I mean, look at GSX-R 750...750cc!!! that makes 150hp!!!! That's freaking 200hp/liter. 6-cylinders and bigger engines have a harder time trying to achieve that goal. That's why American cars for so long have tried to achieve the 100hp/cid. I love the new M3...but even you have to admit it is pricey.
</font>
See a Celica GTS, an S2000 and our CLS belong to the same category and class according to M3 owners. Only God knows how these people perceive automobiles and how to partition them in categories. A Celica GTS is a Luxury GT according to some.
------------------
Gabriel
CL Type S
[This message has been edited by gavriil (edited 05-14-2001).]
05-14-2001, 03:12 PM
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'95 M3 prices are rising? To what?
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05-14-2001, 03:14 PM
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Why do you generalize on ALL M3 owners?
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by gavriil:
Oh man...so on the money this post is. moomaster_99 comparing apples to apples is something that M3 owners have not being taught, will never learn nor will ever understand. Forget it. Like I sad, bring a fricking F22, it is still inferior to the mighty M3 somehow.
See a Celica GTS, an S2000 and our CLS belong to the same category and class according to M3 owners. Only God knows how these people perceive automobiles and how to partition them in categories. A Celice GTS is a Luxury GT according to some.
</font>
Oh man...so on the money this post is. moomaster_99 comparing apples to apples is something that M3 owners have not being taught, will never learn nor will ever understand. Forget it. Like I sad, bring a fricking F22, it is still inferior to the mighty M3 somehow.
See a Celica GTS, an S2000 and our CLS belong to the same category and class according to M3 owners. Only God knows how these people perceive automobiles and how to partition them in categories. A Celice GTS is a Luxury GT according to some.
</font>
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05-14-2001, 03:15 PM
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by M3Sins:
'95 M3 prices are rising? To what?
</font>
'95 M3 prices are rising? To what?
</font>
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Xephyr Performance Intakes[This message has been edited by Xephyr2K (edited 05-14-2001).]
05-14-2001, 03:15 PM
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by M3Sins:
Why do you generalize on ALL M3 owners?
</font>
Why do you generalize on ALL M3 owners?
</font>
------------------
Gabriel
CL Type S