pits200

I can not go with a rwd car, I know the advancements with ESC and snow tires in the winter but with AWD cars on the market I am most likely going that route. The 370 isn't practical, I have my eye on a g37x but the 7 speed auto tranny has some shifting issues which maybe a computer update can fix. The 335 has the HPFP problems but that is suppose to be fixed now by a computer update.

I actually think the Hyundai is a great looking car but once again, another coupe is not in my future being that I may be starting a family here in the next few years.

See how you guys got me off track from my initial post, thanks, lol.

pits200

Screw it, im going to tear my engine apart today, I'll take pictures.

phee

iTrader: (5)

No shit dude. Pinging doesn't mean immediate catastrophic destruction. But it's very possible this was an ongoing problem that could have broken a wrist pin or a connecting rod.

After the op mentioned he had the vales done 3 times it's possible they were overtightened and weren't letting the exhaust leave the cylinder fast enogh

phee

iTrader: (5)

I'm in for pics. I really wanna know what happened. Also, would you mind taking pics of how the coolant lines are laid out in the engine?

CH46ESeaKnight

Well you said "preignition caused piston to plug contact. probably due to an overheating situation in the combustion chamber."

Sounded like you are saying that preignition is the direct cause of the piston hitting the spark plug.

No need to get your panties in a ruffle!

We wont know till he gets it apart so we shall see what happened.

pits200

Ok, here is where I am after about an hour, the job is a lot easier when you know that you don't have to put the engine back together again, lol. I am kind of stuck with how you remove the front head since I don't have a manual and I am just trying to eye up what parts are holding the head on.. Any pointers are welcome.

Video is coming, sorry but I didn't have the patience to make this into a DIY.

pits200

Here's the video, it should be available in HD..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNJgEPM5VZk

zeta

iTrader: (1)

pits, it looks like you have removed the eight head bolts alraeady. The manual states to remove the camshaft pulley and back cover.

You may not need to do that if you can get the TB belt off only. The camshaft pulley/back cover may lift off inmass with the head with the help of a rubber mallet.

zeta

iTrader: (1)

Also, the manual states that the EGR/thermostat 'water passage' needs to be removed on the right side as well. Could not get that in due to the 5 min edit rule

pits200

Ya, i just found the helms for a 2004 TL and I think its setup pretty much the same as the CL. I still have to remove the PS pump, alternator, water passage, fuel rail, timing belt, manifold. I have a longggg way to go and I don't have all the tools here to get this done.

I could see that the water passage needs to come off but I wanted to get the fuel rails out of the way first. Thanks for the pointers though, they're always welcomed :-)

zeta

iTrader: (1)

Here's one for the 99-03 TL as well.

https://acurazine.com/forums/2g-cl-2001-2003-50/service-manual-776021/

friesm2000

iTrader: (4)

looks like the valve's head dropped off, reason for that one stem coming up so far

now why it came off, probably never fully disassembled, and checked for bent valves, which weakened the stem, (or the valve seat had been damaged, which in essence bent that valve later)(might have also been an oblong valve guide too idk, that the vacuum check below would not have gotten though))
and the head was probably never vacuum checked (i think that is what it is called, machine shop does it for us ) which should have showed that that valve was not sealing properly either
also it would not surprise me if they never even decked the heads (so they are perfectly smooth


and as far as you telling them to readjust the valves, they did as you said, adjusted them, and probably at same time gave it to a less experienced tech, which should have picked up on that, but never did

pits200

I know they didn't do the heads right and I complained to them that maybe after the 3rd valve adjustment and the sound was still there that possibly it was another problem.

As for the tech, his name was John and he was suppose to be the lead tech at Precision Acura, I actually saw his picture on the wall and he did have the title of lead tech.

Here are some updated pics with the water passage removed and front cam pulled.

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

Def looks like they fucked up yet again. Sorry man.

pits200

Thanks Civic and the best was they tried arguing with me that they did nothing wrong as I kept bringing the car back multiple times telling them it sounded like a diesel engine. Yet, they just kind of looked at me like I knew nothing about cars and kept telling me that the 3.2 should sound like that.

Im going to work on the car a little more tomorrow then have the car towed to the local Acura dealership on Monday to have another engine put in. I wonder if the work I did so far will help me save any in labor, lol.

friesm2000

iTrader: (4)

why you remove the cams , timing belt just has to be pulled off for the heads to be removed


and as far as saviing labor, LMFAO, whole engine still has to come out, and you basically have done nothing as far as that goes, except for maybe draining the cooling system

pits200

It only was three bolts to remove it, Im not going to get the heads refinished on this so it was just a learning project for me. I just need to remove the t-belt and alternator then I think I should be able to get the front head off.

But I don't think I am going any further, I'm not going to waste anymore time doing this. I'll wait till they pull the engine and that will make it a breeze to get to the heads vs jacking the car up and removing everything in such a confined area.

jsilas

Really sorry to hear about your luck man. Watching your youtube clip and viewing your more recent photographs, it's obvious you've got a broken valve in the #4 cylinder that caused the damage described (and picture) on your spark plug.

All I can say is wow. Whoever did your work must have royally screwed up. Again, very sorry to hear of your luck ( or lack thereof ) and hope you're able to get rolling again soon.

friesm2000

iTrader: (4)

use the heads as a learning process for porting them

pits200

jsilas, I agree with you, Im not the most engine savvy individual and I'm learning as I go but I'd have to say you are correct about the valve falling off into the cylinder then smashing up into the spark plug.

Its just funny because I am pretty confident that none of the valves were bent after the repair so it wasn't that the valve broke off into the cylinder. I am guessing that it was when they worked on the head that they did something wrong with the process of seating the valves and the guides and all that stuff and the entire valve just fell off into the cylinder.

It's pretty pathetic, Im reading through the manual right now and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to do this job just some time, patience and attention to detail along with the right tools.

pits200

Ha, I live in a townhouse with a 1/2 car garage and I'm not sure what Im going to do with the leftover broken engine, Im pretty sure it is going straight to the junkyard after playing with it for a few days.

friesm2000

iTrader: (4)

keeping the manifold, and lower runners,??? if so i would not mind some parts off of it

pits200

I know they don't need to take the heads off to remove the engine but they do need to remove all the coolant lines, intake, battery and harnesses.

I can remove all the mounts and alternator also.. Even if I save an hour that is still $100, not shabby

pits200

Sure, I think the majority of the individual parts from the engine still work perfectly. I just cleaned the manifold a few weeks ago, the fuel injectors probably are still in good condition. I just wonder if I should keep some of the smaller parts just encase something small goes out down the road.

friesm2000

iTrader: (4)

the reason for cheaper shops, they normally don't take their time, and hire cheaper techs, which don't follow those guidelines very well, and not buy the proper tools either


experience does not hurt either for being able to do it right, and somewhat in a timely fashion, anyways it is part of the reason why we send our head work to a machine shop (but we still pull the head off the block and such and reinstall it afterwards)
they have the head decker/surfacer and such, that most places don't have (looking at 50k easily for a machine like that), and to give an idea to you, some places call put the head literally on a belt sander as resurrecting the heads (and knowing most dealers, that is normally what they do, or not even bother resurfacing them at all)

friesm2000

iTrader: (4)

ignition coils be good to keep, but otherwise not a whole lot of little things go out on our motors, so most of it is not worth keeping

but anyways i am mainly interested in the entire intake tract, from the heads up to the tb, and even the vsa tb, but that has a good chance of being reused though on the new motor
also the fuel rails might not hurt either

i want to port it, and smooth it up, then toss it on mine, and not have to worry about down time while i port it and such


also there is a couple of connectors on the wiring harness that i would not mind either, mainly the fuel injector connectors, could always use a couple of those

then also the oil filter base i might want also, tap a port in there for an actual pressure gauge, and not the idiot light

pits200

Well this job was not done by the "cheap" shop, this was Precision Acura in Princeton, labor rate of $125/hr. (I think, give or take a few bucks).

I found out after the job was done and many months later that the dealership admitted that they checked the head for warping and did not find any problems with it, yet they still charged me the $600 it was going to cost to send both heads to a shop in Texas which handles all their head work.

I actually sat down with the VP of the dealership, he was a very cordial down to earth guy who was forced to defend his shop obviously but at the same time he had to listen to my argument.

But it's unfortunate that now it's a given that the tech who did the work was in over his head.

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

As long as the heads arent badly scarred, sell them. You should be able to make a few bucks off them too. If the block isnt too far gone either you might be able to sell that.

pits200

Ignition coils are a good idea, I'll have to see what parts they also plan on reusing on the new engine since I'm not completely sure what will be needed.

pits200

Also, should I just buy an 04 Odyssey engine, its like the same price. I went over this before a few months back and was told it is pretty much a direct swap except for a coolant fitting. Can anyone verify this for me??

friesm2000

iTrader: (4)

but it makes it a bitch to try and reinstall the new engine and actually have it running when it goes out the door, let alone trying to find all the bolts and such, where ever you might have put them

but it all depends on how willing the dealer is to work with you though, and labor savings, cause just realize, it may take an additional hour to just try and figure out if everything is even there, and where it is at

but you are also paying for the new loaner car they gave you while they worked on your car, and that super nice waiting area too, let alone there name, with also the franchise fee to acura also, it all adds up, and nothing comes free

and why the F*** are they sending head work to texas for, aren't you in virgina or something, the machine shop we take it to is like 15 miles away if that, let alone just a little detour for my boss on his way home, so not far at all

friesm2000

iTrader: (4)

yeah depends on exactly what comes with the other engine, for what is needed (alot of times the wiring harness will just be hacked off, so that has to be reused from your old motor though, but the injector clips can come off the new motor's harness instead i don't care

do you have any type of add on engine management system, engine will probably take a while to fully adapt in the computer if it is even able to ever do so, but also the odyssey motor wants more fuel down low in the rpm band, where your ecu will supply more only in the upper rpm band though, completely different power bands that require different amounts of fuel at completely different times, so you might get a lean condition at some point and take out the motor

and that coolant fitting, should be easy, just swap over the thermostat housing


and for you , i would not throw anything more (aka different motor) into the mix of getting it running especially at the dealer

pits200

Ya, I agree bout the 3.5 engine, I don't want the dealership having any excuses for why the job is not going properly. Im just going to stick with the 3.2 and call it a day.

As for the labor savings and doing some of the work myself, I was not serious about doing as much of the work on my own just to save a few hundred bucks. I have all the nuts and bolts in a large plastic bag and did not get too deep into the tear down that there should be much confusion to an experienced tech.

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

The ECU is smart (too smart for big builds), but the CL-S ecu shouldnt have a problem running it. Thats what Im running and fueling is fine.

The two things I recommend is an AFR gauge and an FPR.

friesm2000

iTrader: (4)

your issue right there, yes an experinced tech can find the correct bolts (especially if working on acuras all the time), but that takes time trying to sort through it and such to try and find the correct bolts though

cause i know we got separate bins to be able to put say all the bolts from the suspension in, while all the bolts from the motor go in other ones (like i have all the timing belt ones in there own bin, while like all the manifold ones will be in another)
not a exact sorting system, but it makes it a whole lot easier though for putting bolts back where they go
and yes we may forget an occasional bolt, but by having them separated some, when we see an extra bolt, we know it goes in say manifold somewhere (or where ever that bin may be from), and look specifically around the area, instead of trying to look over the whole job of where it might go

friesm2000

iTrader: (4)

but if you look at your fuel trim numbers though, they are probably ALL out of wack though, makes it harder to diagnose some driveability issues
and you have to let the ecu adapt alot more before you can even think about stepping on it, or possible get a lean condition

but also you are still using the A2 heads, not the odyssey heads, which will flow completely different, and need different fueling requirements (aka the ecu is already kinda programmed for the flow characteristics of those heads)

phee

iTrader: (5)

once i saw that valve i cringed. looks like your cam lobes are worn to shit too. definitely an improper head job. (no homo)

phee

iTrader: (5)

my bad man. i didnt mean to seem like i was pissed or anything. just didnt think i had to go into detail about it lol.

phee

iTrader: (5)

the cl-s ecu is one of the most adaptable ecu's for larger displacement. confirmed by all the large displacement builds that run the type-s ecu as well.

AFR's are spot on as well as fuel trims not being too out of whack.

also, op. thanks for the vid. u can make a few bucks off that engine man.

IM
IMRC
throttle body
thermostat housing
heads
cams for the V6 accord guys
ill take the runners
injectors
coil packs
even spark plugs
also, the dealer should be responsible for that engine and if u push a bit harder im sure they can good will it. shouldnt it have a warranty anyway? 12k/1 year or 36k/3 years

pits200

Not really sure what Im going to do in terms of the shop who just did the work on the car back in December. They're located in Princeton, NJ and Im in Pittsburgh. Also, I complained to them and sat down with the vp and we settled on $1,200 of the $2,300 it cost for the repair under the assumption that the money I recouped was from them not doing the job properly.

So I am not sure what they are going to say if I come back now and say I want the rest of the money back or want them to fix the car.