mr. big

guys,

i was just wondering, does any one know the advantages and disadvantages of both?? I know rwd is better for handling, so y would acura build a sports car with FWD?? wouldnt it make sense to make it rwd? There must be some reason y hondas are made that way....please clarify this...i am curious to know.

thanks,

big.

runnerX

I personally don't think CL-S is ever considered a true sports car, otherwise it should have been on a RWD plateform. It is a sporty luxury coupe.

FWD is better in rain, sand, and snow, however it's handling is not as good as RWD since the drive wheels are also the directional wheels. I believe Acura makes our car FWD is due to the cost, remember FWD cost much less to manufacture than RWD.

you can do a google on FWD vs RWD for detail physics explanation on RWD, FWD, and AWD.

cusdaddy

Interesting article... You may or may not agree with it, but interesting nonetheless:

http://slate.msn.com/id/2081194/

1SICKLEX

I don't think Acura is in trouble at all sales wise only image wise.

runnerX

I don't think Acura is in trouble at all... I believe most Lexus/Infiniti owners don't even what wheel drive is their car. Lexus has better marketing team than Acura, that is why they are more popular. However, I really doubt Infiniti is doing any better than Acura...

darrinb

driving in the snow.....

Dan

I own a Acura and a Lexus. Let there be no doubt about it; the Lexus is a MUCH better built car and don't even get me started about the quality of a Lexus dealer vs. a Acura dealer.
Dan

GreenMonster

Don't start with the snow/rain BS. My mom says shit like that

I've driven in snow for the past 20 years in New England (and the CLS is my first FWD). Real men know how to drive RWD in the snow

Sure FWD is better in the snow (AWD is even better). I'll readily admit to that, but if you know what your doing, RWD is fine.

A good driver can drive any car in any weather condition. It's like those pansies in NASCAR that what to get rid of the road courses. A good driver should be able to drive any car on any track. If they can't, they don't deserve a racing championship

Cusdaddy, that's for the interesting link

oonowindoo

_______________________________
Lexus not only have better marketing team than acura.. Lexus's reputation. built quality, customer service, and resale value... everything is better than Acura...and those r the reasons why lexus is always a little higher than Acura.



as for FWD vs RWD.. it depends what u want... if u live in Cali, then RWD cars are more fun to drive than FWD cars. RWD is kinda dangeous to drive on the snow..

is it faster to pull or push?

CLSter

Here we go again, ONE experience, and ONE car sets the rules for ALL. :P


Back on topic FWD is also supposedly cheaper to manufacturer.
That Slate article is really all that needs to be said. I do miss my old 328is for it's handling and tight turning radius at times.

TL_Type_S

Just to add a point to the acura vs. lexus ...

I've driven a lexus for four years.. and I've driven the GS400 (aggressively) ...

Nothing inspires me to drive aggressively quite like my TL-S w/ headers compared to a whisper quiet, cush Lexus...

Lexus is just built for a different driver

Bobbydoedoe

true, lexus's bulid quality is the best compare to other jap cars.

AcuraFan

RWD = More fun.
FWD = Safer in adverse conditions.

If you live in LA and like to drive in a spirited fashion, then RWD would be more fun. If you live in areas regularily covered in snow and ice, FWD is safer. You're going to get people telling you "RWD is just as safe as FWD if you know how to drive." Don't buy it. They're only patting themselves on the back because they've been lucky enough not to get into an accident. I've driven in Minnesota for 10 years now...I've had about equal share of FWD and RWD cars. I've put a lot of miles on both types of cars and have never been in an accident. But I can tell you, FWD is by far a better way to go in the snow. It's all about handling and path control...in which case, there's no substitute for drive tires being the same as path control tires.

Why is Acura FWD? I don't think it's because FWD is cheaper to produce. It's because it would cost to much to switch over. Also, I have a feeling, Acura is keeping safety in mind. After all, a large number of TL buyers are Accord owners. They want a luxury version of their Accord.

But, like I said, it shouldn't matter in LA or about half of the country anyway.

Bill Faure

Honda sticks with FWD becuse their factories are tooled that way. It would cost hundreds of millions of dollars to retool to make a RWD car. If they didn't want to retool then they'd have to purchase parts from someone else thus increasing the cost of their cars. It's kind of like BMW and their inline 6. Why doesn't BMW convert to a V6 for better engine bay packaging? Becuase their factories are tooled for an inline 6.

Paul

I have a lexus and an acura also. Even though the lexus is an SUV, it drives better IMO than my CL. Its much smoother, built quality is excellent. It feels funny sometimes when im driving the lexus cause i can turn faster with it and the car feels like its more stuck to the ground then the CL(maybe its cause i didnt get the type S). I dont think acura can ever compare to Lexus, not with their line of cars now at least. Then again, u get what u paid for...

hemants

FWD is better in rain and snow because wherever you point your front wheels, that's where the car tends to go.

RWD will fishtail in snow and wet conditions.

RWD with traction control is safer but it will essentially turn an M3 into a 318 if three people piss on the road.

Without a doubt, AWD is the best of all worlds but it is more costly both in terms of up front $$$ and weight.

The main reason RWD cars feel better is due to weight distribution (in a FWD car, more weight must be placed over the front wheels for traction).

That being said, a BMW or Audi feels better than a TLS even when you are coasting (ie. no acceleration so you take FWD/RWD out of the equation). This is due to better stock suspension systems and often shorter wheelbase (and previously mentioned weight distribution).

My recent test drive of a TLS with CT sways was quite enlightening. If you want a sport sedan feeling, sway bar upgrades are a must.

Wires

They SAY FWD is better in snow, but I've yet to find a FWD car that I feel actually performs better in the snow. Sure, the FWD will drag the car up snowy hills better (since the RWD wants to push the ass of the car around), but you can't steer!

I'd buy a RWD over a FWD anyday. Try a FWD on gravel roads. That's a blast! Nothing like your front wheels slipping on gravel, and then not being able to steer..... And don't get me started on torque steer!

AcuraFan

I don't know what kind of snow you're driving in, but the reason FWD is safer (for most people I guess) in the snow is because you can steer.
If your drive tires are also your steering tires you can pull through a slippery turn. That can't be done in a RWD car. FWD cars need 1 tire to have traction and control over your car. RWD require 2 tires getting grip all the time (one for steering, one for drive) or you just don't have control. Plus, if you do ever slip, it's easier to get control of your steering tires if you can apply break and gas appropriately get get control. In a RWD car, you can only do that to the drive tires and hope your steering tires catch at some point.

skinsfan202

Isn't a Mini Cooper FWD, those cars handle like a motherfucker.
My best handling car was an MR2 Spyder. But it just didn't have enough power. I think if Toyota put a celica GTS motor in the mr2 with six speed and 17's it would be much more fun.

gto2050

I have had both. I am not necessarily that experienced in the snow but FWD is somewhat better. However, when I moved to NJ with a RWD Lexus GS300, it was RWD with no traction control or limited slip or anything else. It had the passenger side rear wheel as the driver. I was scared silly of the snow. I was in a lease and had another year to go. I went to Home Depot and bought 2 70lb of traction sand in long plastic tubes. I placed them over the rear wheels. Then I called Tire Rack and purchased 4 snow tires on Lexus GS wheels. I never had a problem!

In 1998, I bought a FWD Maxima SE. It had wide all season tires. It was the shiznits in the snow. Hardly any traction at all. Luckily it didn't snow much while I had it.

When I got the CL-S, I bought a set of snow tires and put them on TL wheels (Which just happen to be for sale! ) I must say, this car has no problems in the snow with snow tires. With the wider all seasons though, I'm not so sure. With the winter of 02 behind us with one of the snowiest winters ever, I had few problems.

Now I have the G35 with "W" rated performance tires. It will never see a snowflake because I now have a 96 Explorer for those bad days.

In the snow, I'll take AWD first, FWD second and RWD dead ass last.

AcuraFan

I'm so very very jealous. We had no snow last winter. It sucked like you wouldn't believe.

Shawn S

This argument has been DONE-TO-DEATH and will never change.

Here’s some more to argue about:
A guy I work with drives a 4-door 3-series BIMMER (328 I think).
I don’t know him, but he looked me up when he noticed I had switched my 18” Rims to the BLIZZAK’s last winter.
I told him all about how great they were and really increased the traction over all-season tires.
So based on MY advice he went out and bought an entire set of wheels/tires from Tire Rack.

He came back a few weeks later and said it didn’t make that much of an improvement in the cars snow handling ability.
It was BETTER, but not by much.
He said he had always owned FWD cars and it was his first RWD and really didn’t expect there was THAT much difference in the snow. Boy was he wrong.

You guys who say RWD is fine in the snow are probably thinking of 3-4 inches.
For that I agree, but when you’re talking 8-10+ and curvey hills you need FWD or 4WD and a good set of snows.
Anything else and I’ll wave as I pass you by.

Shawn S

Tom2

Yeah, the snow issue has been beaten to death too.

I once bought a winter beater for $300 (rear wheel drive Toyota Celica) that already had snow tires on it when I bought it.

The thing was an absolute TANK, even in very deep snow.

Point is, even RWD can be excellent in deep snow with the right tires/traction.

Living in NY, I find it absurd that there are people that will ONLY buy a FWD because of snowy days. If you think about it, there really isn't THAT much snow to deal with in a typical winter, and even when it does snow, the plows are constantly plowing the roads...... so what's the big deal?

Maybe if I lived in Alaska, I'd lean towards a FWD because of snow. Then again, if I lived in Alaska, I'd be driving a 4x4 for sure

Shawn S

I’m sure there are plenty of others in my situation.

I live up on top of a fairly large hill.
If I make a left or right at the bottom of my driveway it’s a downhill 2-mile curvy road either way.
The Township is large, but the budget is small so when it snows I see more deer then snowplows.
When we get 8+ inches I hear snowmobiles and 4-wheelers on the road for DAYS after it stops.
If it’s below freezing the road can stay snow packed for WEEKS.

The only RWD car I will ever buy will be a high-performance “toy car” for use in the summer only.

Shawn S

Tom2

Shawn,

Yeah, I remember that you live out in the sticks. In my part of NY, the snow plows are out as soon as we get a couple of inches of snow. By the next day, the roads are almost always completely clear.

If I were in your situation, I prolly have a RWD sporty car and a cheap 4x4 for the winter (like your wife's RAV4)

Crazy Bimmer

ok i had both

my 330 is my first RWD car... and i had it through winter with winter tires on it.


Lets say that i will NEVER buy another FWD car again.
Unless i lived on a HUGE hill like shawn does, now thats crazy.

Maximized

RWD is vastly superior in terms of handling and acceleration. If you don't drive your car like a jackass in poor conditions, RWD is just as good as FWD. Like someone said before, if you know how to drive a RWD car, it is just as good as FWD. I prefer a RWD car in the snow vs FWD because you can "steer" a RWD car with the throttle. In a FWD car, when you lose traction, you also lose steering capabilities.

vinnydahitman

i think ill be fine in just about any condition in my wrx =)

Shawn S

It’s 85 outside right now, but ahhhhh the memories.



Here’s looking DOWN the road last winter:


Here’s the OTHER way:

fahoumh

Our '99 VDP has been through the last 3 winters and our '98 Q45 through the 3 winters before and neither myself or my mother had any difficulties.

AcuraFan

No.

vinnydahitman

lets say i wanted to drive like a jackass in poor conditions... what would you rather be driving fwd or rwd? i agree that driving normal you can be just as safe in a rwd but there is no argueing that fwd is better if you wanted to push just beyond the safe zone. i remember last year when we had those bas snow storms here... i did all i could to get the cl to break loose and no go! it just wouldnt do it. the vsa just kicked in and i was fine. even with the vsa off the car was absolutely stable and i drove like a jackass when there was nobody around just to test it out! i followed someone in a mustang gt on a straight (45~mph) go right off the road and then i flew right past him (55~) and into a turn(not a stop turn just a 65 or so degree bend) (25~) w/ no problem

rozello_RENAMED

My wife had a bmw 325 for 16 years. It was barely driveable in snow and handled poorly in wet weather. My accord and then legend handled beautifully and never got stuck. We know both have '03 tl's and she is very happy. She doesn't miss rwd at all. If you are going to drive on a dry race track and beat the **** out of the car, the bmw will handle some better with not a big difference. If you want a car for everyday driving and 99% of what what you will need, get the fwd. Also the fwd drive cars are so well engineered that it is hard to tell the difference unless you push the car beyond it's designed capabilities.

mrdeeno

for the guys that have driven rwd cars in snow and have no problems...congratulations, you drive well.

but you are forgetting about the large (80% plus?) part of the population that CAN'T DRIVE A FWD CAR IN SNOW!!

if every car make switches to rwd, we'd all be f*cked 'cuz half the people out there can't even drive fwd in the freakin' RAIN!!!

fahoumh

what are you talking about? 80% of all people can't driver properly...period. :P

hemants

RWD may be good ENOUGH in the snow. that is a matter of opinion.

But RWD is inferior to FWD in the snow. That is a matter of fact.

All else being equal of course. I pity the fools in AWD or SUVs with worn out all season tires who learn the hard way that drive train doesn't help you stop!!!


"80% of all people can't driver properly...period. "

Hey! Something we can all agree on!

Shawn S

Here’s another one to ponder for those of you who say RWD is so great in the snow.

Why do 4WD trucks & SUV’s suck so badly in the snow when the 4WD isn’t engaged?
That’s because they’re only driving the REAR wheels.
As soon as you engage the 4WD, part of the power is sent to the FRONT wheels with better traction.
Only THEN do they perform better then a FWD only vehicle in the snow.

Shawn S

Crazy Bimmer

Well or course your wifes 1987 325 isnt the same as today traction control systems found in bmws. The two cannot be compared... IMO

Drive a newer bmw or any rwd car with traction control and ALSO has winter tires on the car... then let me know how bad the driving was.

I always notice the people who say RWD sucks in snow are the ones who owned them BACK IN THE day. Times have changed guys... and most cars on the road today are RWD, so they cant be as bad as you all think. Also keep in mine most rwd cars today come with sport tires that arent made for snow and most owners are too dumb to swap them out for winter tires. :P

Scrib

Which SUVs are RWD? I thought all were FWD if they're not AWD???

hemants

"Times have changed guys... and most cars on the road today are RWD"

No. Most cars on the road are FWD by a mile.

The following are the top selling cars:

Toyota Camry
Honda Accord
Ford Taurus
Honda Civic
Ford Focus
Chevrolet Cavalier
Nissan Altima
Toyota Corolla
Chevrolet Impala
Chevrolet Malibu