FWD vs. RWD
07-03-2003, 03:52 PM
#81
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Tradeoffs gentlemen, tradeoffs
Do ya'll realize, ICE and SNOW doesn't give a fig what car you drive in the snow? Ice and Snow doesn't say "ooooh, a FWD car, we'll let it pass"...
07-03-2003, 03:55 PM
#83
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Originally posted by 1SICKLEX
Do ya'll realize, ICE and SNOW doesn't give a fig what car you drive in the snow? Ice and Snow doesn't say "ooooh, a FWD car, we'll let it pass"...
Do ya'll realize, ICE and SNOW doesn't give a fig what car you drive in the snow? Ice and Snow doesn't say "ooooh, a FWD car, we'll let it pass"...
07-03-2003, 04:06 PM
#86
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"somebody email ferrari and porsche asap and let them know about this revelation of FWD performaing better than RWD. This is big news."
Porsche already knows, so does Lamborghini. They both produce AWD cars.
Porsche already knows, so does Lamborghini. They both produce AWD cars.
07-03-2003, 04:11 PM
#87
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Originally posted by hemants
"somebody email ferrari and porsche asap and let them know about this revelation of FWD performaing better than RWD. This is big news."
Porsche already knows, so does Lamborghini. They both produce AWD cars.
"somebody email ferrari and porsche asap and let them know about this revelation of FWD performaing better than RWD. This is big news."
Porsche already knows, so does Lamborghini. They both produce AWD cars.
And ZeroDay, no one said FWD performs better. I guess I'll have to say it again sigh...FWD handles better in adverse conditions.
07-03-2003, 04:15 PM
#88
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Nah, but a FWD car says..."I don't care what you try to do, I'm gonna pass anyway."
So I should race my FWD in the snow and have SNOW RACING stories? That would be cool huh? Not.
Porsche already knows, so does Lamborghini. They both produce AWD cars
07-03-2003, 04:19 PM
#89
Cost Drivers!!!!
Originally posted by AcuraFan
Hey Zap, where've you been? This has been going on for a while now.
Hey Zap, where've you been? This has been going on for a while now.
what are ya gonna do man? Some people just have their heads in the sand.
I work in a pretty rich area with many RWD cars. Soon as the snow/rain/sleet etc., starts coming out all of a sudden they seem to disappear and the SUVs start showing up. All the cars on the side of the road which are off in a ditch. The majority of them RWD. Sure RWD could move in snow if it was a FLAT surface but i challenge somebody to get in a RWD with ice or snow on the ground and try and get up some hills.
It is simple physics. If the axle doesn't have enough weight over it then the wheels will not able to grip.
If it is your personal preference to drive RWD then by all means but don't sit here and argue that RWD is just as good FWD in the snow. It does take skill to drive and from the way alot of people on this board talk....apparently they are all F1/SCCA/LeMans/WRC drivers....everybody should be able to do so.
You know when it snows whether it's 1 inch or 10inches like we got a few times this winter, i just got in the car and drove. No cinder blocks, no sand bags, nothing......just drive. Can the same be said for RWD?
07-03-2003, 05:02 PM
#90
Unregistered Member
Originally posted by Zapata
what are ya gonna do man? Some people just have their heads in the sand. I work in a pretty rich area with many RWD cars. Soon as the snow/rain/sleet etc., starts coming out all of a sudden they seem to disappear and the SUVs start showing up.
Simple logic, bud... People in a "rich area" tend to have nice, rear wheel drive luxo cars... and they can easily afford the 4 wheel drive SUV to use in the winter. What would you expect? Even if they were all driving nice AWD luxo cars, they'd prolly still have the 4 wheel drive SUVs for the winter. Personally, I never used to take my M3 out of the garage in the winter. Why bother if you have a 4x4?
All the cars on the side of the road which are off in a ditch. The majority of them RWD. Sure RWD could move in snow if it was a FLAT surface but i challenge somebody to get in a RWD with ice or snow on the ground and try and get up some hills.
Yeah, because nobody was ever able to climb a snowy hill in a RWD vehicle before Gimme a break.
It is simple physics. If the axle doesn't have enough weight over it then the wheels will not able to grip.
Just as simple as that, huh? Sorry, but there's a little more to it than that. Especially in the days of trac control/limited slip/etc...
If it is your personal preference to drive RWD then by all means but don't sit here and argue that RWD is just as good FWD in the snow. It does take skill to drive and from the way alot of people on this board talk....apparently they are all F1/SCCA/LeMans/WRC drivers....everybody should be able to do so.
Depends on the car/tires. RWD can be excellent in the snow. It can also suck. The same exact thing can be said for FWD.
Funny thing is that the amount of time all you FWD owners drive in the snow probably accounts for less than 1% of your total driving time. So why be so bent on FWD? Doesn't make sense to me.
You know when it snows whether it's 1 inch or 10inches like we got a few times this winter, i just got in the car and drove. No cinder blocks, no sand bags, nothing......just drive. Can the same be said for RWD?
Sure. My old winter beater (RWD) had no problems at all. Just got in the car and drove.
what are ya gonna do man? Some people just have their heads in the sand.
I work in a pretty rich area with many RWD cars. Soon as the snow/rain/sleet etc., starts coming out all of a sudden they seem to disappear and the SUVs start showing up. Simple logic, bud... People in a "rich area" tend to have nice, rear wheel drive luxo cars... and they can easily afford the 4 wheel drive SUV to use in the winter. What would you expect? Even if they were all driving nice AWD luxo cars, they'd prolly still have the 4 wheel drive SUVs for the winter. Personally, I never used to take my M3 out of the garage in the winter. Why bother if you have a 4x4?
All the cars on the side of the road which are off in a ditch. The majority of them RWD. Sure RWD could move in snow if it was a FLAT surface but i challenge somebody to get in a RWD with ice or snow on the ground and try and get up some hills.
Yeah, because nobody was ever able to climb a snowy hill in a RWD vehicle before
Gimme a break.It is simple physics. If the axle doesn't have enough weight over it then the wheels will not able to grip.
Just as simple as that, huh? Sorry, but there's a little more to it than that. Especially in the days of trac control/limited slip/etc...
If it is your personal preference to drive RWD then by all means but don't sit here and argue that RWD is just as good FWD in the snow. It does take skill to drive and from the way alot of people on this board talk....apparently they are all F1/SCCA/LeMans/WRC drivers....everybody should be able to do so.
Depends on the car/tires. RWD can be excellent in the snow. It can also suck. The same exact thing can be said for FWD.
Funny thing is that the amount of time all you FWD owners drive in the snow probably accounts for less than 1% of your total driving time. So why be so bent on FWD? Doesn't make sense to me.
You know when it snows whether it's 1 inch or 10inches like we got a few times this winter, i just got in the car and drove. No cinder blocks, no sand bags, nothing......just drive. Can the same be said for RWD?
Sure. My old winter beater (RWD) had no problems at all. Just got in the car and drove.
07-03-2003, 05:55 PM
#91
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People that argue that RWD is inferior are living in the past. Yes 35 years ago RWD was a bitch to drive. In the 1970's, cars went to FWD, not because of traction, but rather for cost and packaging. If RWD was so bad in the snow, you wouldnt be seeing the transition currently taking place in the Automotive industry. In the near future, there will be a good number of cars switching from FWD to RWD.
As for the snow, I have had no problems driving my parents 330i, E320, 740iL etc. They have NEVER gotten stuck. It depends on the tires and the driver. Another thing that hasn't been mentioned, no drive configuration helps in the most important part of bad weather driving.....Braking. Tires make the big the majority of the difference. Hell, when my dad went to buy his A8L, he was going to get the 18's. The salesmen advised him not to get this package because they weren't good in the snow, and this was with arguably the most advanced AWD system on the market.
As for the snow, I have had no problems driving my parents 330i, E320, 740iL etc. They have NEVER gotten stuck. It depends on the tires and the driver. Another thing that hasn't been mentioned, no drive configuration helps in the most important part of bad weather driving.....Braking. Tires make the big the majority of the difference. Hell, when my dad went to buy his A8L, he was going to get the 18's. The salesmen advised him not to get this package because they weren't good in the snow, and this was with arguably the most advanced AWD system on the market.
07-03-2003, 05:55 PM
#92
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my dad got his E500 in thw inter, and he had decided to keep his RX300 for the winter....
once the RX300 got stolen, he drove the E500 around, and realized he doesnt need a AWD suv at all, the E500 did perfectly in all conditions we had in toronto, never got stuck once.
I pretty much agree with everything Hemants is saying though...
AWD+snow tires + TONS TONS TONS OF FUN
once the RX300 got stolen, he drove the E500 around, and realized he doesnt need a AWD suv at all, the E500 did perfectly in all conditions we had in toronto, never got stuck once.
I pretty much agree with everything Hemants is saying though...
AWD+snow tires + TONS TONS TONS OF FUN
07-04-2003, 02:10 AM
#93
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Originally posted by Maximized
If RWD was so bad in the snow, you wouldnt be seeing the transition currently taking place in the Automotive industry.
If RWD were just as good in the winter, you'd see just as many of them in the winter as you do in the summer. You don't. Many people with RWD switch over to FWD or AWD in the winter. But few people switch over from FWD to AWD and NO ONE switches from FWD to RWD in the winter...why would that be if they are "just as good"?
As for the snow, I have had no problems driving my parents 330i, E320, 740iL etc. They have NEVER gotten stuck. It depends on the tires and the driver. Another thing that hasn't been mentioned, no drive configuration helps in the most important part of bad weather driving.....Braking. Tires make the big the majority of the difference. Hell, when my dad went to buy his A8L, he was going to get the 18's. The salesmen advised him not to get this package because they weren't good in the snow, and this was with arguably the most advanced AWD system on the market.
Again for me, it's not an issue of getting stuck (that is an issue but it's not the biggest issue)...my issue is path control and rationalize it all you want, it's pure and simple physics. In the snow: pulling will always be better than pushing. Engine over the drive wheels will always be better than trunk over drive wheels (even with sandbags). And drive wheels controlling the turn will always be better than dead turning wheels.
I just wish people wouldn't get so defensive about their RWD. It's a better (driver pavement) performing and fun configuration. So shut up and enjoy your RWD. :P
If RWD was so bad in the snow, you wouldnt be seeing the transition currently taking place in the Automotive industry.
If RWD were just as good in the winter, you'd see just as many of them in the winter as you do in the summer. You don't. Many people with RWD switch over to FWD or AWD in the winter. But few people switch over from FWD to AWD and NO ONE switches from FWD to RWD in the winter...why would that be if they are "just as good"?
As for the snow, I have had no problems driving my parents 330i, E320, 740iL etc. They have NEVER gotten stuck. It depends on the tires and the driver. Another thing that hasn't been mentioned, no drive configuration helps in the most important part of bad weather driving.....Braking. Tires make the big the majority of the difference. Hell, when my dad went to buy his A8L, he was going to get the 18's. The salesmen advised him not to get this package because they weren't good in the snow, and this was with arguably the most advanced AWD system on the market.
Again for me, it's not an issue of getting stuck (that is an issue but it's not the biggest issue)...my issue is path control and rationalize it all you want, it's pure and simple physics. In the snow: pulling will always be better than pushing. Engine over the drive wheels will always be better than trunk over drive wheels (even with sandbags). And drive wheels controlling the turn will always be better than dead turning wheels.
I just wish people wouldn't get so defensive about their RWD. It's a better (driver pavement) performing and fun configuration. So shut up and enjoy your RWD. :P
07-04-2003, 06:30 AM
#94
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"People that argue that RWD is inferior are living in the past"
No. RWD is inferior in the snow.
But people who say RWD is dangerous or unbearable in the snow ARE living in the past. Traction control systems in RWD cars have come a long way.
But at the end of the day RWD IS still inferior to FWD in adverse conditions.
And by the way, the trend towards RWD is more of a demographic shift as well as an oil price phenomena. There are a lot of 50 something rich people (baby boomers) who are looking for their mid life penis extension :-) And gas is cheap so V8's are in vogue as well.
No. RWD is inferior in the snow.
But people who say RWD is dangerous or unbearable in the snow ARE living in the past. Traction control systems in RWD cars have come a long way.
But at the end of the day RWD IS still inferior to FWD in adverse conditions.
And by the way, the trend towards RWD is more of a demographic shift as well as an oil price phenomena. There are a lot of 50 something rich people (baby boomers) who are looking for their mid life penis extension :-) And gas is cheap so V8's are in vogue as well.
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