Fuel System cleaners
#1
Burning Brakes
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Fuel System cleaners
Hi,
i've read several posts about using fuel system cleaners such as the Chevron Techron fuel cleaners that clean out valves, fuel injecction, and the whole fuel system in general. But then when I went to Pep Boys and asked which one would be good to use, the guy told me that i shouldn't use those, that i shouldn't put anything into the fuel system except for just gas. He also said that it sometimes makes the car worse off. So now i'm getting conflicting answers. Should I go ahead and buy some fuel system cleaner for my Cl-P like what some people on the forums are saying or should i not use it? And if it is highly reccommended by the forum peeps here, then which one would be the best to use?
i've read several posts about using fuel system cleaners such as the Chevron Techron fuel cleaners that clean out valves, fuel injecction, and the whole fuel system in general. But then when I went to Pep Boys and asked which one would be good to use, the guy told me that i shouldn't use those, that i shouldn't put anything into the fuel system except for just gas. He also said that it sometimes makes the car worse off. So now i'm getting conflicting answers. Should I go ahead and buy some fuel system cleaner for my Cl-P like what some people on the forums are saying or should i not use it? And if it is highly reccommended by the forum peeps here, then which one would be the best to use?
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#2
friend of fast
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i think octane booster is bad for your car not the cleaner...i used to have a mazda mx6 ls with like 150K miles on it and i would use the cleaner and it made the car run stronger and more efficient. i wouldn't use it if you have low miles though, there is nothing wrong with our engines...unless you've been putting 87 gas in it for the last few years then maybe i'll give it a once over.
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#3
Burning Brakes
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Originally Posted by FunkeeTown
i think octane booster is bad for your car not the cleaner...i used to have a mazda mx6 ls with like 150K miles on it and i would use the cleaner and it made the car run stronger and more efficient. i wouldn't use it if you have low miles though, there is nothing wrong with our engines...unless you've been putting 87 gas in it for the last few years then maybe i'll give it a once over. ![Bath](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/bath.gif)
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#4
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Your at 20K miles? Why would you have to run a fuel system cleaner anyways? On a side note, if you should decide to do it, get the 44K cleaning kit from your local dealership, works wonders.
#5
Beware of leakage
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I use STP Fuel system cleaner every 3k miles, Also I use Outlaw Fuel system cleaner if I can't find the STP.
I see no problem with it, and my CLS is a happy car, and has not bitched about it
I see no problem with it, and my CLS is a happy car, and has not bitched about it
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#7
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iTrader: (2)
You want clean get this stuff......
http://www.seafoamsales.com/motorTuneUp.htm
I put a can into my 94 Exploer the thing smoked like a smoke bomb for 10 miniutes. You couldn't see down the block
http://www.seafoamsales.com/motorTuneUp.htm
I put a can into my 94 Exploer the thing smoked like a smoke bomb for 10 miniutes. You couldn't see down the block
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#8
Safety Car
Go to your local Toyota dealer parts department and get a CAN of Toyota EFI Cleaner. This is the best EFI cleaner I have ever used. Add in to one half tank of fuel and run the car to empty as quick as you can. DO NOT leave this product in your tank for more than 2-3 days! The first time I used this stuff I poured it into a long neck plastic fuel additive bottle to make it easier to add. As I poured it in the top, it came out through the bottom! Now I know why it comes in a STEEL CAN. I have seen this stuff cure some pretty ratty running cars over the years. It runs about $10.00-$12.00 a can.
#9
Burning Brakes
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Originally Posted by Chopper
I use STP Fuel system cleaner every 3k miles, Also I use Outlaw Fuel system cleaner if I can't find the STP.
I see no problem with it, and my CLS is a happy car, and has not bitched about it![Smile](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
I see no problem with it, and my CLS is a happy car, and has not bitched about it
![Smile](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
#10
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Originally Posted by andyjl
well as far as i know, most of these fuel injector cleaners require that you put in the cleaners when it is near empty. But as for the STP brand, the directions say to put it in a full tank...won't this affect the use of it? wouldn't STP also be used in an empty tank ???
It could be more concentrated than the other brands.
If so, you would need a higher ratio of fuel to cleaner.
#11
Suzuka Master
I feel its a scam too. If you put 93 octane fuel, it should be pretty clean and already have a lot of additives to clean your system too. I once tried Techron and could not tell the difference. I would probably use it not more offten than 20-30K miles, just to make sure everything is clean... But to put it every 3K miles is definatly stupid.
#12
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I just put in some STP Fuel system cleaner in today and pumped my tank full with Chevron 91 octane gas and I don't really feel a difference? Will i be feeling it possibly later on? What are your experiences on this??
#13
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Originally Posted by andyjl
I just put in some STP Fuel system cleaner in today and pumped my tank full with Chevron 91 octane gas and I don't really feel a difference? Will i be feeling it possibly later on? What are your experiences on this??
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#14
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Originally Posted by Chopper
Andy your not really going to "feel" a difference, your engine may notice a difference, and if there was a lot of build up on the injectors and what not. You may notice your gas mileage improving and maybe a little added power, but this may not even register on the Butt dyno ![Moon](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/moon.gif)
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#16
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Check out Acura.com for the answer to your question. Go to "Frequently asked Questions"....it says that you should not use any fuel system cleaners.....once the car is a recent model....u don't need that shit!
#17
Suzuka Master
Depends...
A bottle of Techron isn’t going to hurt – and very well might help. OTOH, if you always get your gas from Chevron, it very well might be a waste, as the gas has the same cleaner in every batch of gas.
It couldn't hurt to toss in some Techron -- or other cleaner -- if there is some suspicion that the car has or had some crappy gas in it.
I haven't done the following in years, but:
I've put alcohol in the tank to remove water in the tank. The alcohol allows the water to mix with the gas (Alcohol is miscible with water and petrol – and increases the miscibility of the two fluids [see comments below]).
link: http://yarchive.net/chem/gasoline_dewater.html
As a Note: I modified the original text for typos, spelling, grammar, and format to improve readability…
It couldn't hurt to toss in some Techron -- or other cleaner -- if there is some suspicion that the car has or had some crappy gas in it.
I haven't done the following in years, but:
I've put alcohol in the tank to remove water in the tank. The alcohol allows the water to mix with the gas (Alcohol is miscible with water and petrol – and increases the miscibility of the two fluids [see comments below]).
link: http://yarchive.net/chem/gasoline_dewater.html
>I was wondering if someone out there could tell me the mechanism behind
>that fuel additive that you buy to remove water from your fuel system. I'm
>guessing there's some sort of hydrolysis (maybe make a fatty acid or
>something) or maybe addition to an alkyne or something. (I _am_ just a cell
>biologist though.)
No. it's purely to do with improving the miscibility of the normally-immiscible fluids. Let' start with the Gasoline FAQ, ( available from the FAQ archives at rtfm.mit.edu in
pub/usenet-by-hierarchy/rec/autos/tech.
[ begin extract ]
8.7 How can I remove water in the fuel tank?
If you only have a small quantity of water, then the addition of 500mls of dry isopropanol (IPA) to a near-full 30-40 litre tank will absorb the water, and will not significantly affect combustion. Once you have mopped up the water with IPA, small, regular doses of any anhydrous alcohol will help keep the tank dry. This technique will not work if you have very large amounts of water, and the addition of greater amounts of IPA may result in poor drivability.
Water in fuel tanks can be minimized by keeping the fuel tank near full, and filling in the morning from a service station that allows storage tanks to stand for several hours after refilling before using the fuel. Note that oxygenated gasolines have greater water solubility, and should cope with small quantities of water.
[ end extract ]
So your question may be " why IPA, why not methanol or ethanol, which are usually cheaper ?". The answer is dependent on two aspects, the actual ability to act as a co-solvent, and the effect of temperature on the phase separation point of gasoline/co-solvent mixtures. The aromatics content of the fuel also has a profound effect on the amount of water that can be tolerated, with 25% aromatics tolerating about 0.1% water and 40% aromatics tolerating about 0.2% water at 15C.
Adding 15% by volume of anhydrous methanol to a typical non-oxygenated gasoline will provide a water tolerance (the amount of water that can be added before phase separation occurs) to around 0.16% at 15C, but at 0C the tolerance would be close to 0%, i.e. the water/methanol would be a separate phase without the addition of water. Adding more that 15% of methanol can adversely affect drivability on engines without management systems designed for oxygenated fuels.
Adding about 3% by volume of anhydrous isopropyl alcohol will provide a water tolerance of about 0.35% at 15C and about 0.2% at 0C, thus its ability as a co-solvent is superior on a volume basis, and far less temperature sensitive than methanol.
Ethanol is between the two, with a 15% blend tolerating about 1% water at 15C. The best additives are the isomeric-propyl and butyl alcohols, and above them, the tolerance decreases as the alcohols become less water miscible.
The above numbers are from memory, and are approximate, but you get the general idea. The experiment is easy to do if you want real numbers for your local gasoline. Take 100 MLs of gasoline (remembering that it's highly flammable) in a stoppered glass ensuring cylinder and measure temperature.
Add one drop (ideally a 1ml syringe, but any narrow tubing or dropper can be used, and use 20 drops of water = 1 ml ), stopper, and shake. If the solution goes hazy, warm slightly in a bucket of warm water and measure the temperature that it clears.
If it stays clear, reseal and put it in a fridge or freezer (in a container that will contain the fuel should the glass break - and remember that all vapour will be flammable and that the controller and light use non-flameproof switches).
When hazy, remove and record temperature that the haze clears, and if it's still clear, add another drop and repeat.
Now repeat adding 5, 10, 15% anhydrous MeOH, EtOH, or IPA (remembering that many IPA products (e.g. as an antistatic) actually are not anhydrous, and can contain up to 40% water - which somewhat defeats the purpose :-) ). You can draw a graph of water tolerance versus temperature that shows the different positions and gradients of the alcohols.
Bruce Hamilton
>that fuel additive that you buy to remove water from your fuel system. I'm
>guessing there's some sort of hydrolysis (maybe make a fatty acid or
>something) or maybe addition to an alkyne or something. (I _am_ just a cell
>biologist though.)
No. it's purely to do with improving the miscibility of the normally-immiscible fluids. Let' start with the Gasoline FAQ, ( available from the FAQ archives at rtfm.mit.edu in
pub/usenet-by-hierarchy/rec/autos/tech.
[ begin extract ]
8.7 How can I remove water in the fuel tank?
If you only have a small quantity of water, then the addition of 500mls of dry isopropanol (IPA) to a near-full 30-40 litre tank will absorb the water, and will not significantly affect combustion. Once you have mopped up the water with IPA, small, regular doses of any anhydrous alcohol will help keep the tank dry. This technique will not work if you have very large amounts of water, and the addition of greater amounts of IPA may result in poor drivability.
Water in fuel tanks can be minimized by keeping the fuel tank near full, and filling in the morning from a service station that allows storage tanks to stand for several hours after refilling before using the fuel. Note that oxygenated gasolines have greater water solubility, and should cope with small quantities of water.
[ end extract ]
So your question may be " why IPA, why not methanol or ethanol, which are usually cheaper ?". The answer is dependent on two aspects, the actual ability to act as a co-solvent, and the effect of temperature on the phase separation point of gasoline/co-solvent mixtures. The aromatics content of the fuel also has a profound effect on the amount of water that can be tolerated, with 25% aromatics tolerating about 0.1% water and 40% aromatics tolerating about 0.2% water at 15C.
Adding 15% by volume of anhydrous methanol to a typical non-oxygenated gasoline will provide a water tolerance (the amount of water that can be added before phase separation occurs) to around 0.16% at 15C, but at 0C the tolerance would be close to 0%, i.e. the water/methanol would be a separate phase without the addition of water. Adding more that 15% of methanol can adversely affect drivability on engines without management systems designed for oxygenated fuels.
Adding about 3% by volume of anhydrous isopropyl alcohol will provide a water tolerance of about 0.35% at 15C and about 0.2% at 0C, thus its ability as a co-solvent is superior on a volume basis, and far less temperature sensitive than methanol.
Ethanol is between the two, with a 15% blend tolerating about 1% water at 15C. The best additives are the isomeric-propyl and butyl alcohols, and above them, the tolerance decreases as the alcohols become less water miscible.
The above numbers are from memory, and are approximate, but you get the general idea. The experiment is easy to do if you want real numbers for your local gasoline. Take 100 MLs of gasoline (remembering that it's highly flammable) in a stoppered glass ensuring cylinder and measure temperature.
Add one drop (ideally a 1ml syringe, but any narrow tubing or dropper can be used, and use 20 drops of water = 1 ml ), stopper, and shake. If the solution goes hazy, warm slightly in a bucket of warm water and measure the temperature that it clears.
If it stays clear, reseal and put it in a fridge or freezer (in a container that will contain the fuel should the glass break - and remember that all vapour will be flammable and that the controller and light use non-flameproof switches).
When hazy, remove and record temperature that the haze clears, and if it's still clear, add another drop and repeat.
Now repeat adding 5, 10, 15% anhydrous MeOH, EtOH, or IPA (remembering that many IPA products (e.g. as an antistatic) actually are not anhydrous, and can contain up to 40% water - which somewhat defeats the purpose :-) ). You can draw a graph of water tolerance versus temperature that shows the different positions and gradients of the alcohols.
Bruce Hamilton
As a Note: I modified the original text for typos, spelling, grammar, and format to improve readability…
#18
Suzuka Master
Originally Posted by sexxygyrl
Check out Acura.com for the answer to your question. Go to "Frequently asked Questions"....it says that you should not use any fuel system cleaners.....once the car is a recent model....u don't need that shit!
#19
Dromaeosaurs/Velociraptor
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I use
STP Gas Treatment every other fill up
STP Octane Boost every fill up
STP complete Fuel System Cleaner every oil change
No complaints and have gotten slightly better gas mileage.
STP Gas Treatment every other fill up
STP Octane Boost every fill up
STP complete Fuel System Cleaner every oil change
No complaints and have gotten slightly better gas mileage.
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