ThinJim

iTrader: (3)

Still trying to get to the bottom of this. I pulled these quotes off threads from the past as I have made mention of this problem before.

Can't find that quote in the Greddy handbook for the emanage. What manual are those quotes out of?

As to the noise that could possibly cause the erradic display of injector duty, why then does it not do it at lower boost? Example, I set the boost at 5 lbs and data log, the injector cycle is straight across and close to 80% with no fluctuations, did this several times, same result each time. I did it at 5.5 psi and that's where it starts to act up but not as fast, a few ups and downs on the duty cycle. I data log at 6 psi and it acts like it's a ekg printout, up down, up down. I then did my one 10psi run, and my afr went crazy, real rich 9.8 to lean 17.5, back to 9.8, and that's where I stopped. The data log on that one showed the same thing, only faster and with one time the injector cycle stayed at "0" for longer than other times.

There is also a corrolation with the additional injector doing the same thing at the same time this occurs with the stock injectors.

Again, at 5 psi, it's perfect, above that and it starts to go crazy.

Blue or anyone else running the emanage, (I suppose there is 4 or 5 people who are using it) have you data logged at all and checked for this? I'd like to hear of some first hand experiences. If you guys have the time, go out and data log and tell me what your setup did, I'd be curious.

I'm miffed.

blk2001tlon19s

What's up man! I'll try next time I drive my car and see if I get anything different.

All Mine

Interesting stuff.

ThinJim

iTrader: (3)

Here is a copy of the data log.


This one is at close to 7psi.





This one is at close to 4psi.





Now that you have a visual, lets get crackin.

BlueCLS6

So you're saying that your injectors are actually seeing that type of duty cycle (from what you say about the AFR) above 5.5 psi!? When I dynoed my car it boosted between 6-7psi and ran smooth with no fluctuation in AFR (which was being logged). I have not logged the injector duty cycle however. If your AFR like you say is acting up then I'd be worried, otherwise maybe it is just 'noise'. Is it getting confused when the additional injector starts to inject? What boost level does that kick in? Good luck with your investigation, keep us updated...

typeR

do it on a dyno at the same time and see if those are real values

ThinJim

iTrader: (3)

On my dyno run, my afr was 11.0 and pretty much flat across the board and matched my afr meter. Maybe some slight deviations, but not drastic. I beleive it is staying pretty flat because of the extra fuel the extra injector is providing. The extra injector may be providing enough fuel to fill the gap when the stock injector starts to fall/recycle. The water injection also adds a comfort level and fills the gap when the injector falls down. I'm no expert, but I'd say these injectors are candidates to lock up. When I boosted to 10psi, thats when my afr went all over the place. The engine is more touchy at higher boosts and see a lean/rich condition quicker than at lower boost where the extra injector and water injection can fill the gap.

I don't think it's noise on the line because it does not do it at 5.5 psi or less and the higher I go, the longer it takes the injector to come back up.

Blue, I'd say unless there is something wrong with my unit with the wiring, yours is probably doing the same thing. That's why I'd like to see some comparision from you since your boosted pretty high as well as the SC guys with hbp and Hope System IC.

My car pulls to the end with no misfires and delivers smooth power to red line, but I can't discount what the data log is saying or the afr reading at 10psi.

typeR

who are you talking to here?

ThinJim

iTrader: (3)

[QUOTE=thinjim]Blue, I'd say unless there is something wrong with my unit with the wiring, yours is probably doing the same thing. That's why I'd like to see some comparision from you since your boosted pretty high as well as the SC guys with hbp and Hope System IC. [QUOTE]


BlueCLS6 and everyone who has the emanaged hooked up...

ThinJim

iTrader: (3)

[QUOTE=ThinJim]

Blue, I'd say unless there is something wrong with my unit with the wiring, yours is probably doing the same thing. That's why I'd like to see some comparision from you since your boosted pretty high as well as the SC guys with hbp and Hope System IC.
QUOTE]

BlueCLS6 and everyone who has the emanaged hooked up...

typeR

[QUOTE=ThinJim]sorry didnt make the connection...i was thinking emange blue as apposed to ultimate

ThinJim

iTrader: (3)

Anyone had a chance to investigate?

ThinJim

iTrader: (3)

Last bump,,,, Anyone?

bigguyonbike

wow that's weird, mine never did anything like that. i had the car up to 8.5 psi and the data log continue to work perfectly with no hiccups.

why is your total inj. duty cycle up to 84% @ 4psi? i only see max cycle at 87% @ 8.5psi on my car.

after looking at the graph more closely, it seems to me that something is interfering with you injector signal which causes it to go 100% but it doesn't look like it's e-manage fault. check your FPR or fuel pump to make sure it's working properly. if your O2 sensor read lean it's possible that it can be due to not enough fuel pressure which will cause e-manage to compensate by letting the injector pulse width open alittle longer.

bigguyonbike

steve did a good job with e-manage, so i would check the fuel system first to eliminate that possiblity.

ThinJim

iTrader: (3)

My fuel pressure is steady at 80-85psi. don't know why mine does this and yours does not, obviously, i have a problem.

Bigguy- are you sc or turbo, i can't remember.

bigguyonbike

^ SC/IC

it sounds like there is something wrong with your FPR. it should be in the neighborhood of 100psi at WOT, unless your fuel system is set up differently from us SC guys.

ghost_masterCL

yep, looks like bigguy hit the nail on the head. Even with noise, you shouldn't be hitting 100% duty cycle. Those poor injectors/starved cylinders.

allmotor_2000

The ramp rate on that FPR is adjusted low - you don't want 100psi... it actually delivers less fuel. With 80psi and the 2nd injector, its more than enough for 8-9psi.

It is possible the fluctuations are not noise; I never investigated that further because I really didn't drive > 6psi. But, I would try getting the Greddy pressure sensor and not using the stock map sensor at all - probably the issue here. Yes, I know the stock MAP is clamped

ThinJim

iTrader: (3)

I ordered RC 440's and they will be here on Friday and I'll have it running again by the weekend pending no unexpected problems. I know the point where the stock injectors take a dive and will see how much of an improvement the 440's will provide. I'm guessing 7-8lbs without the injector falling off.

I spoke with a local guru on honda injector/ecu, and was told that when the ecu maxxes out the injector, it will kill the signal. Said something like 14-16ms pulse is the max before the ecu says "enough, try again". The other thing he said was the honda ecu will go right to 80% duty cycle which will in itself limit how effective the emanage is on providing extra pulse width to the injector. This leads me to wonder what will happen if I set all the values to "0" and just let the ecu run the injectors without the emanage altering the signal. hmmm

I'm sure I'll be able to get some more fuel with higher boost with the 440's without compromising the idle of the car, any larger and the idle will be a little on the rich side. I guess I'll have to rely on the additional injector to fill in the gap when more fuel is needed. That's not the optimum way I'd like to do it, but looks like it's the only bandaid at this point.

I'll put a write up with pics on the install when it's done.

FYI- it's been said before but sometimes there is still some confusion to the stock size of our injector. I spoke with RC and was told they tested one from our car and the size was 240-250cc.