My brother got his '02 TLS dynoed last week at Englishtown and the results were depressing. 219 at the wheels, and that is with comptech headers, mufflers, and AEM CAI. Anyone else get similar results? What would a stock auto tls/cls get at the wheels?

 

I think that's a substantial increase from stock. Several members ran dynos on stock CL-Sand their readings were much lower. I think less than 200hp at the wheels. Remember you loose 20-25% at the wheels. Try a search!

 

u should b getting more

what were temp/humidity conditions???...if he did it last week, i can't think of WORSE conditions than almost 100 degrees with like 90% humidity!!!

how many dyno sessions did he do??? if he did more than 1, what were the other readouts???

 

It was the 3rd of July. It was hot and humid that day, I have to do some more research to find out exactly how hot and humid it was though. He did 3 runs, and 219 was the best and that was on the 2nd run. Might be a stupid question, but does it matter what gear they use to do the runs?? I wouldn't think so, but just curious. If anyone got their CLS/TLS dynoed, please post here. Thanks.

 

how accurate are dyno's?

cant they be around 5% off?

i dunno where i got that from, but is it true?

 

I am going to Englishtown to get my '03 stock (comptech springs) CLS dynoed. I will post the printouts on Friday night or Saturday. What should I expect if my brother's TLS with Headers, Mufflers, and CAI got 219hp at wheels and I have a stock 6speed? Thanks for all the replies.

 

Ive seen other dyno's from 6 speed owners and depending on the number of miles you have on your car, you can expect 220-230, stock.

 

So about 240 to 250 at the wheels with headers and CAI? That is a 20 - 30hp difference between the TLS and CLS 6speed. Does that sound about right considering the TLS is obviously an auto and the CLS is a 6 speed?

 

His car with those mods should dyno around 225-230. Maybe he got a Wednesday car!

 

Actually I think we only have TWO stock 6-Speed Dyno’s right now.
One was 217 and the other was 221.

Shawn S

 

Yup. Plus the kid picked the worst possible time of year to get a dyno done.


The AEM CAI was virtually useless in that kind of weather.

 

An auto should be dyno'd in 3rd gear and I *believe* a MT is 4th.

 

I thought Tuesday/Wednesday cars are the best... not hung-over Monday cars, and not Tomorrow Is Friday Thursday cars and not Here Comes The Weekend Friday cars.

 

Okay, well after Friday you will have 3 stock 6 speed CLS dyno readings. So I guess a TLS with headers, mufflers, and CAI will put out around 220hp (on crappy day) at the wheels. That is pretty crappy, but I guess normal for an auto FWD car.

How much HP do you lose from crank to wheels on our cars on auto and stick?? Anyone know?

 

I had a Dyno run scheduled for next week, but I’m postponing it until after I buy Headers.
It was scheduled back in May and I thought I would have them by now.
Plus we already have some “stock” 6-Speed runs on the books.

Shawn S

 

i dynoed mine about a month ago... I got 232hp and 197ft-lb of torque, this dyno was before pulleys and tranny cooler btw

here's the orignial post:
http://www.acura-tl.com/forum/showth...threadid=39724

 

I am going to dyno mine as is (stock) and then again after I put on the Comptech Headers and Icebox. Want to see before and after. Today would be perfect (well, not temperature wise, but humidity wise) to dyno it, I will see if Englishtown does dyno's on Thurs, not sure. Will post results either tonight or tomorrow night here.

 

i didnt know Etown does any dynoes... as far as i know its only the stip

 

I wouldn't be suprised if he was loosing HP from the mufflers. After I took my Comptech mufflers off I noticed a lot better response.

 

Before anyone gets carried away with this, try doing a dyno with the temperature around 60-70 degrees F with low humidity.

The SAE correction will never account for the loss from moving the ignition curve and fuel tables around to allow the car to run in the high temperatures. At the same time, the actual temp of the air in the plenum and ports could be sky-high (and the loss in air density could be greater than that predicted by the current “ambient” temperature. (THE SAE correction does not take care of this…)

The cars are very temperature sensitive... I've "done" a few runs in different temperatures and cars that I could "blow-off" (that I shouldn’t be able to as a “stock” CLS), were no problem in 40-70 degree temps. Once the temps get above 85 (at least for me), I stay away from any "challenges". If you want to get a "fair" set of dynos, try to keep the temps the same (from run-to-run when comparing bolt-ons) and try to find a night or day when it isn't so bloody hot.

If the car still is making "wimpy" power when you're in the 60-70 degree F range, just might want to think about: 1) having the car looked at; 2) checking the "current" mileage (how broken-in it is); and see if any other members with good dyno numbers have gone to that shop (and used that dyno operator). When you change gears (the CLS auto should be tested in 3rd, the manual in 4th [my opinion]) you're comparing apples-to-apples (at least that's what I think). If you change the gearing, you change the sweep time, and a Dyno Jet is inferring the power made through inertial means. As you go to lower respective gears, the dyno sweep time decreases, and will generally make the car's rotational inertia into a bigger LOSS factor. (very slow sweep == parts aren't spinning-up fast. very fast sweep == parts ARE spinning-up VERY fast and the inertial loss really shows)



$0.02

 

Wow, thanks for all that info. Here are some things I have found out since yesterday.

1) Whoever said Etown doesn't do dynos is correct, they had a guy in a truck outside on the 7th of July that was doing them. 3 runs for $75.

2) My brother and I took our cars to Etown because we live around the corner just to use their entrance ramp as a strip. For those of you that don't know, I have an '03 CLS manual completely stock (except for comptech springs) and my brother has an '02 TLS with Comptech Headers, Springs, and AEM CAI. We ran about 10 times going from the entrance gate in the back towards the entrance way in the front, before the curve. I had a Gtech that we were playing with also, so we were just doing 0 - 70 runs. Here is what happened:

I destroyed my brother, by 1 car length at least, every time. On the Gtech, I ran 0 - 60 times of 6.03 - 6.28, while he ran times from 6.7 - 7.0. This does not seem right to me. I weigh about 50 lbs more then him, and my car has 3k miles while his has 7k miles.

I would think that a modded TLS would be able to hang with a manual CLS, no? What do you guys think, my brother's car broke?? And I drove his too using sportshift and auto, and sportshift was faster.

 

By the way, he had the mufflers removed (comptech) because of the noise, and had the original mufflers put back on about 3 days ago.

 

You need to check his actuator! Mine just went out and it feels like a dog now.

 

I am gonig to go check the actuator right after work. I thought about that yesterday but I couldn't find the damn thing. Did a search and found those cool animated gifs. Will check it when I get home, thanks.

 

Let us know if that is or is not the problem

 

Will do, but is there definitely a problem?

 

With 1400 miles on my car i put dynoed 217 hp.

 

DEFINITELY THE ACTUATOR!! I checked it today and it is NOT going on. Do we bring it to dealer or can we fix it ourselves??

 

GREAT...glad it was simple to figure out the problem....bring that shit right to the dealer and get him a new one.

 

Bad actuators happen. It's your chance to give the dealer IQ test.


If they verify the problem (actuator doesn't move) and offer to replace it, you've found a dealer with minimal brain damage.)

OR


If they "stonewall" or try to put you off by telling you:
1. It only works under load.
2. It only works in certain temps.
3. They never go bad.
4. We don't see any OBDII codes, so it must be ok.
5. Put your "own" "stupid"/"lame" dealer vs. actuator failure story here.

You now know you have a ignorant, stupid, and/or bad dealer (Go to search and look up actuator and dealer)

Move on and get that sucker in there... You're currently driving a CL Type S-20HP.



Actuator problem not fixed in 03!!!!

Actuator and dealer in denial thread (one of many)

AND (for ammo)

Search the CLS forum for Actuator and Dealer

 

Ok Eric I have a question....what part exactly should they be replacing? Is it just that part that flips open and closed...just that thing and what it is attached to in that pic...or is there other unseen parts that also need to be swaped? Do you have a part # by chance...I want to call and check on mine because its not in yet, and I want to make sure the right part is orderd. I just told them what was wrong and he said he would order it. They have not heard of that problem before but he put down on the paper...actuator/IMRC because thats what I told him.

Thanks

 

ON pages 11-42/11-43 of the 3.2 CL Service Manual 2001 (covers 2001 CL and CL Type-S models), there is a schematic diagram.

The schematic shows one of the outputs of the PGM-F1/PCM (the “electronic brain” of the car that sits behind the center console in the CLS) going to:

1. The INTAKE MANIFOLD RUNNER CONTROL MODULE (its show as a single block on the schematic – ok) The module is controlled by pin A13 of the PGM-F1.

2. There is a two-wire connection that goes to the: INTAKE MANIFOLD RUNNER CONTROL ACTUATOR from the IMRC MODULE described above.


The item in #1 (the control module) is detailed on page 11-139 (Intake Manifold Control (IMRC) Module Removal/Installation. The picture could be better, but it looks to be located in the driver’s foot well (left side).

The Actuator’s removal and replacement is described on page 11-138 (adjacent page). This is the “Actuator” as shown in the “jpeg/gif” (in this thread). The pictures you see are of the actual ACTUATOR. (NOT THE MODULE).

I “think” that most people have had the ACTUATOR replaced. However, the MODULE could go bad. (In rare cases someone could have a bad connector or wire and/or a bad driver/output transistor in the PGM-F1/PCM (IMO, I wouldn’t be looking there first and it would be the last place I’d look – [but that’s just me])


They should be able to swap item #1 and/or #2 and get you going…

There is a two-pin connector going to the actuator on the firewall, and it is either getting DC (direct current) or AC (alternating current); either way, a small DVM (Digital Volt Meter/Multimeter) should be able to “detect” if a signal is coming from the IRMC MODULE.)


So, here are the main parts:

1. IMRC Actuator (that motor/actuator on the engine firewall).
2. IMRC Module (inside the car).

If they can’t sort this out – be afraid … be very afraid!

 

In addtion to EricL's comments, when mine went out about two years ago, I ran the tests dictated by the Helms manual. Everything pointed towards the IMRC Control Module but it turned out that it was the actuator. My actuator even passed all of the tests but the dealer just ordered both parts and swapped them until the problem was uncovered.

 

I talked to Acura the other day and the person I dealt with had never heard of this problem before...but the person he talked to and I guess ordered it from told him he knows exactly what it is...so I think i will be ok as soon as the fukers get it in!!!! I have the headers now and I realy realy want to install them but I am going to wait till after they change the actuator