As some of you may know, I recently got the TL dyno'd last weekend and pulled a MISERABLE 156hp on my all motor run and a laughable 317hp with motor+300hp shot of nitrous. Now, this doesn't really bother me because I KNOW this car is carrying quite a bit over 400hp to the crank. My primary concern here is ensuring that the car is ready for my 3.5 in all other aspects such as nitrous system, fuel system, engine management, etc...and this does give any certainty when I'm receiving incorrect numbers from a dyno gone bad. the dyno was a DynoJet and that's about all I know about it. The guy running my car was surely uneducated in what he was doing due to some things I seen here and there...like trying to do a pull in a gear not at a 1:1 ratio (he was in 4th). I come back the same night to the forum and searched for some dyno numbers on stock motors with no mods and some people are pulling generally around 200-220hp. I have a few mods done that are atleast worth 20hp such as under five pulleys, AEM cold air, DC headers...oh and a painted engine cover (painted hi-performance blue!). The next day at work I do a compression test on both a hot and cold engine. I pulled an average cylinder pressure of 144psi across all six cylinders and a max difference of 11psi between the high and low number. Those are great cylinder pressures for a 130k miles motor...especially a motor that's persevered as much spray as I've subjected it to! So I dug deeper, I also did a valve clearance check and all valve were not that far out of spec but went ahead and redid them just to eliminate that as a possible influential factor that could be decreasing power. I felt no difference in power. And speaking of power, it has quite a bit and cannot complain that it's noticeably dropped since I've owned the car. The engine runs strong and I've always been very impressed with its output! I know it may sound like I'm trying to persuade myself here (and maybe others) but I'm just honestly trying not to blame the dyno as an easy way out. I gave it the benefit of the doubt here and thoroughly investigated, tested and checked numbers on the car before making this thread.

What I need, I guess, is some reassurance that these numbers (even for the all motor run) was off by about...I dunno, by FAR. I mean, really? A 130hp drivetrain loss?

Whats everyone's thought here and if I need to check/recheck something here let me know. Aside from the all motor pull, from what I've always seen, a 300hp shot is a 300hp shot regardless if it's in a 4 or 8 cylinder engine.

 

Way off. My lower compression 3.0 makes 227whp on mustang dyno and 246whp on dynacom dyno. On a dynojet I will make more than the 227whp for sure

 

156 lol

 

Im so pissed right now dude. But it's all good. I'm planning on taking it to another place that specializes in imports and has an awesome rep here in Dallas.

156, lol is exactly what I was thinking!

 

chances are you have low compression from blown ring lands from running a 300 shot.

 

I stopped reading right here... go to a reputable shop that knows what they are doing.

 

Redline in arlington has been there for years and specializes in honda/acuras I go there for most my work if I cant figure something out. Decently priced too

 

If you're in the Dallas area, go to Jotech.

 

That's exactly who I had in mind.

 

Lmao, why do I suddenly feel like I described all my testing/diagstics in great detail for nothing?

Compression was very healthy and there was no rapid bleed down. The rotating assembly is mechanically sound.

 

my j32a2 pulled 270psi-285psi each cylinder dry comp. i stand by my statement. FYI my miata pulls 170 psi a cylinder. it's either your ring lands or your trans blowing through the converter

 

definitely low compression..

looks like the bottle has taken it's tole..

unfortunately these motors rarely blow up, they just slowly whither away until isn't not really worth owning anymore.

156 is just aweful tho really... and that IS standard?

that's worse than a CL-P

 

I've read/heard that the J32's have issues withe cams flattening out on the lobes. I'm beginning to wonder if that's a possibility. Phee/CL-S, the next dyno should be a better confirmation of what's going on.

 

ur compression is pretty low. forgot off the top of my head what is should be but my lowest cylinder was at 183

 

The Helms has the following listed under its 'Engine Compression Inspection' section:

Step 11-Open the throttle fully, then crank the engine with the starter motor and measure the compression.
Compression Pressure:
Above 930kPa (9.5 kgf/cm2, 135 psi)-200rpm

Step12-Perform the same measurement on the remaining cylinders.
Maximum Variation:
Within 200 kPa (2.0 kgf/cm2, 28psi)

Step13-If the compression is not within specifications, check the following items, then remeasure the compression.
-Damaged or worn valves and seats
-Damaged cylinder head gasket
-Damaged or worn piston rings
-Damaged or worn piston and cylinder bore

If I am interpreting it correctly, as long as compression is above the 135psi, in step 11 above, then it is within normal limits as long as a variation of more than 28 psi does not occur throughout.

Therefore, the 144 psi average with an 11 psi spread throughout pulled across all six cylinders is WNL.

 

^^^
That number was a typo and I just now realized that. That should've been 174 but I guess my thumb tapped 4 twice. The engine mechanical/pressure specs say that the low is 138psi and I was 30 over that by average. But yes, you're right, if I was @144 that would be too low.

This car has ALOT of power still and very doubtful its mechanical unsound.

Or maybe I should tell myself that it is so that I can push this 3.5 build/install a little faster SHIT!

 

If you look at pits200 video above at about 3.17, the inside of the compression measure ment dial reads 'kPa X100'. His measurement comes to between 14 and 15 on the inside marks of the dial, which puts it between 140-150.

lol, on the outside of the dial it reads psi.

 

That means the lowest it can be. It doesn't specify a maximum number. The lowest allowed number is generally the pressure at which the issue will begin to cause drivability issues and then be recognized by the PCM. But that's only if the variance from the highest cylinder is above 28psi...

 

^
Good info/discussion in this thread. It will be a benchmark should I ever have to perform one of these.

Low of 135psi
High of 210+psi (up to phee's #'s in his post)

 

someone said... lol

but to do a real compression test you have to take all the spark plugs out take the fuel pump fuse out and just crank it for one revolution for each cylinder check usually it takes around 5 times and you take the average, anything below 120psi is not good... it should be around 130-135psi... if the first one is in range but last one or two are lowest then do few extra test... a bypass for started is a nice tool too

it could be your tranny too :P

 

Get a dyno app, g-tech, or a scan guage to double check those numbers. I know these numbers are insanely accurate, but they should be in the ballpark.

You should feel a 130hp drive train loss even when driving...

156 whp all motor is about a 180hp or 190hp car at the crank. Drive alongside a stock car at normal speeds rated about 180ish hp that is a little heavy... if you find yourself struggling to overtake the car then your motor is screwed.

I know it's not scientific but, you'll be able to tell.

 

Can you post the dyno graph? Curious to see what it looks like.

 

I have a video of both the motor and nitrous pulls. You can just tell by the watching nitrous pull that this motor has a wee bit over 400 to the crank...

 

I would've asked for my money back or somebody else to do it, 156 is defiantly off. I would be pissed if I came up with those numbers on my tl-p

 

You know man, I was just about over all that BS and then you had to go off and say some stuff like that? What's up man? I'd meet up with you somewhere and race you as my vengeance but I dyno'd 156whp so I guess that would be useless huh? That is unless you dyno'd beneath that...

Seriously though, yeah, I'll be ending this crap Saturday. Even if I have to wait 2 hours for the dyno with my pregnant wife and our 4 children again just so that I can put an end to this. I was smashing on some pretty rad cars and I know that wasn't happening with a 300whp!!!

Dammit Stephen!!!

 

Woah!! I think you for the wrong idea I was meaning I would have been pissed that the guy didn't know what he was doing. I hate wasting my money because somebody doesn't know what there doing. Running it on the dyno in fourth gear probably took forever since it is for overdrive and fuel economy. By the way I'm sure you can blow my doors off right now with my transmission f'd up.

 

Don't make your family wait.

 

^^^
Exaggerating a wee bit there.

Besides, all my kids were enjoying the cool cars. :-)

 

I would be looking at other cars if I was there too. I was filling up gas in my car the other day and a guy pulled up in a Ferrari 458

 

I was especially amused by the Lotus Elite 450hp TT they had there. Custom LED digital dash display, custom exhaust, body kit, mmm...NICE!

 

Something's seriously wrong dude. Look at the power curve.. Flat from 3k on, no spike for vtec or barely any overall power increase from the powerband for that matter. You're also running less than 12:1 across the board and it goes to the bottom of the ocean off the graph after that. WAAAY too rich for naturally aspirated. Did you turn your fuel pressure up for the nitrous? This alone is killing a lot of power, but in my opinion your motor is definitely hurt

 

It's normal for the ECM to run the AF ratio much richer at WOT runs. This is because there's no way to maintain a 14.8:1 ratio at high RPMs plus it's much easier to run LEAN when in those numbers. This is a smart feature to have when designing the software and the electronics that control the powertrain and yes, it's very normal. Running that much "richer" at WOT is not going to noticeably hinder performance.

As for the dip seen on my nitrous runs, I'm quite aware of the AF ratios here as well. My fuel solenoids are jetted exactly at 10:1 ratio to protect the stock block and components. Richer AFRs run much cooler combustion temperatures and its only being done for this motor. I will run between 11.3-11.5 AFR on the 3.5.

As for the motor itself, I doubt it's damaged in any way. She's way too damn tough!

And one last thing, the dyno chart is so "flat" towards 3000k because that's the RPM at which WOT is supposed to be activated. Up till then, it's only PT until the dyno gives the green...

 

how does your idle sound?

 

Funny you ask that question. Later that day after doing the dyno, I did notice a slight stutter here and there in the idle and was more pronounced with the AC on. That's really what pressed me to check compression and valve clearances soon thereafter. I could see that was intermittently seeing cylinder 3 misfiring about 3-5 times on a 25 min drive. That's just the ECMs count but I could notably feel differently. Being that I had just swapped all 6 coils off the Odyssey motor I have (which BTW are much stronger than the J322) I excluded that from the equation. After checking the obvious things, I proceeded to the compression/valves. It was still detectable afterwards even after this. I was getting a little frustrated so right before leaving work one day, I threw one of the old J32 coils on the cylinder and never felt it again. Perhaps it did affect the.dyno that day but I could NOT feel any differences EVER under WOT.

Other than this, idle is relatively smooth for its mileage and use...

 

so did the cylinder fail yet?

 

Still running strong!!! ;-)

 

I agree with AnthraciteTypeS. You're too rich. I think that motor is on borrowed time. Are you just running the stock ecu? what are you tuning with?

I think the combustion in some of your chambers is too much. The ecu has readjusted and messed with the timing to prevent catastrophe.

All the valves are good, in time, and not bent?

 

Yeah valves are good, excellent timing, everything is perfect!

But I'm not so sure about cylinder 3 connecting rod...

 

yeah right

 

You know I WAS joking...right?