Water Rabbit

I drove the manual 6-speed CL-S this morning. The test vehicle was a 2001 PDG CL-S with about 17000 miles on the odometer. The testing people seem to think that the manual will be offered on the 2003 model year. I didn’t get a chance to see the engine bay and the testing people weren’t informed about any suspension or engine upgrades. The differences inside the car were few. It was apparent that the car had started out life as an automatic and then the center console was reworked to accept the manual stick shift and a hand brake. The steering wheel had a shiny plastic “A” ala TL-S, and the rear view mirror was modified with the intention of including an “OnStar” system.

The shift seemed very Civic like in it’s smoothness- up to Honda’s world class best. What was a little disconcerting was having that much power behind a clutch that smooth. Also a little odd was getting used to the six-speed layout after having spent a dozen years in manual CRX Si and then an Integra GSR. I imagine I’d get used to it given time but it was easy guess wrong especially on the Freeway.

The test drive route was completed with a nice lady whose main task was to act as a navigator for the carefully scripted test route. The drive took a little over an hour of city streets around Torrance, Gardena and Carson and four shots on the 405 and 110 Freeways.

I had fun playing with the stick and wringing it out on the freeway on-ramps – but it didn’t make me want one. In fact, the route that was proscribed was weighted so heavily toward business and residential streets with endless stop and go, and left and right, that I found the stick tedious. Mostly I stayed in 1st through 4th gears. On the highway 5th and 6th seemed almost the same. I thought sixth should have been longer so as to cruise at a higher speed with lower RPMs.

If I had been given the choice between a manual and our automatic at the time of purchase I would have picked our slushbox without a doubt. Different story if we were talking RSX or NSX. I would hope that Acura would try to improve the CL's sport shift, rather than offer a manual. A Level 10 upgrade is on my wish list.

I could be wrong, and I know many of the members of the CL board do not represent Acura's target demographics, but I bet a lot of the folks who wished they had had a choice of a manual transmission would change their minds after a test drive. If/when a manual is offered for the CL, I bet they don’t sell very many.

Nashua_Night_Hawk

Shawn will be very jealous...

patsmere

Alright somebody actually posted details

z28typeSWRXkid

i just think its weird that so many people buy this car and get mad cuz it doesnt have a manual or isnt fast enough...get a camaro man if thats what u want

Scooter

wtf...only west coast people get to test drive the stick...bs...i demand satisfaction!!!!!!!

Scooter

BTW, that's some good info...interesting how they had a specific course layout...i guess it's a fair way to do it...and who complains about a manual while driving on a highway anyway??

mackdaddy

Agreed. This is the finest car I've ever owned, bar none. I happen to love the automatic. Still, the option for a 6spd manual trans for those who want it (or think they do) would be nice of Honda.

Squishy

They'll probably waterfall this technology down to the V6 Accord Coupe and other lines. In Europe, manual cars sell VERY well. These engines can be imported to europe for their production vehicles. Here in America, the target market is mostly for automatics. Plus, if Honda is serious about taking a share of the pickup or some other utility vehicle, it must adapt their V6 lines with manual and also go rear wheel drive because it would be just silly to tow a boat or something heavy without out the feel for a manual.

RandyMax

Weasel: what goodies did you get from them??

MyBigBlack S

Weasel, pretty negative review huh? I think most of us were excited about the possible performance gains in terms of less transmission power loss & also the slight curb weight reduction from a manual. Did you notice it was much faster, or did you feel like performance remained the same? Any feel for a 0-60?

gavriil

I dont understand. How did you get to test drive a concept 6 speed? Who do you work for?

monkeymato

Sounds pretty cool. Will the 2003 CL be the first Acura with OnStar?

RandyMax

Simple. You have to live here in SoCal, and you own a late model CL / TL.

I just got a confirmation --- I am going Thursday!! Yippie!!

Closer

I'm betting the gearing is like our automatics.
2 overdrive gears. And 4th *might* be a 1:1.
Even with six speeds, it's hard to imagine them putting aggressive gearing in that type of car.

But, I could be wrong. I guess i'll have to wait to drive one myself.

so cal type s_RENAMED

nice review. now how do i test drive one of those 6 speed babies?!?

BarryH

OnStar is already offered on 2002 RL.

Water Rabbit

In answer some above questions:

I really didn’t mean for my review to be a “negative” one. I think the implementation of the six-speed manual on the CL-S was very well done; especially considering that the car I drove was an experimental prototype. If you are one of those people who must have a manual transmission no matter what kind of vehicle you drive, I think you will be really, REALLY happy if you end up with a 2003 that has a transmission as good as this one. I’d be curious to know if the manual would be likely to stand up to all that power for any length of time (it was so smooth and nimble) . . .but that’s part of what they’re testing for I think.

In terms of the gear ratios, I am no expert, but to me, it felt more like a close ratio 6-speed, and if anything, that the 6th gear wasn’t tall enough. I think I can confidently state that the gear ratios bore no resemblance to the ratios of our automatic

I thought the On Star addition was a little schizophrenic with the stick shift. The car already has a great NAV, and OnStar always seemed like a device for the elderly and technology challenged: “I’ve fallen and I can’t get up!”--probably just a prejudice on my part.

I do not work for Honda or Acura or any car related company. . . But I do live about 15 minutes from Honda’s major U.S. research and development headquarters, and of course I bought a CL-S already. A couple of weeks back I received a letter from an independent automobile testing and research group. It basically asked me to send back a little card if I’d be willing to test-drive an experimental vehicle. It came with a letter from Acura verifying the legitimacy of the first letter. So, I did that and a few days later I received a phone call where they asked some demographic questions and questioned my experience driving a stick shift. They tell me they’ll be doing test drives for a few weeks and they’ll call me if they need me. When I didn’t hear from them by the 14th, I called them to see what happened and they said they thought they had enough people already. I said: “Oh well, shucks, it would have been fun, thanks anyway, so long.” Then they called last week and said some people cancelled and I could come today if I wanted.

They offered $200 cash and $50 dollars toward some Acura logo “stuff”. I requested a nylon bag, a T-shirt and a parker pen. I thought that was pretty nice since, like most people here, I would’ve done it for fun.

Southpaw

i cant wait to test drive one

kensteele

Testing new products is not limited to California. Since Sprint PCS is headquartered in Kansas City, you would be surprised how many of my new phones we test 6 months before they come out, right here in Kansas! But I must admit, our agency, when they look for consumer opinions and feedback and do the focus studies, you guessed it, they go to SoCal.

If you are interested in testing new phones for Sprint PCS, email me your name and address and I'll see if I can get you on those external consumer lists. No promises of course since I don't own that process. Unlike my test lists which are employee-only internal testing.

Anyway, thanks for the 6-sp review, I didn't think I would be switching to one over the SS. The OnStar sounds pretty good, I'm wondering if they will be offering the add'l integrated phone service built into the car soon, too? Like the BMWs or the Lexus or the Mercedes. If Acura were to choose a phone to install in their CLs, which phone should it be (manufacturer, model)?

Edit: Adding "...please no jokes about 'No wonder my service is so crappy, they're testing these damn things in Kansas' comments. I ultimately test them all over the country, too..."

[ 08-20-2001: Message edited by: kensteele ]

Scorpius

Agreed. Back in '93 my family was asked if we wanted to test a digital satellite system... Of course I (we?) said yes, but two huge trees blocked the view. Oh well!

TL_Type_S

How about a more in-depth review of the actual engine feel, brake feel (any revisions to the cushy, sluggish Cl-S/TL-S stock brakes?). Did the car have a more off-the-line grunt to it? Did you get a chance to perform any 0-1/4-mile evaluations, or any performance driving scenarios? Did you feel more torque/g-force while under full throttle? (Was the women w/ you fat?, cuz that coulda affected throttle response). You mentioned you "wrung" out the tranny on the highway... does it have better or similar passing power than the automatic CL-S?

Do the wheels feel like they kick out more readily w/ light throttle engagement? You mentioned that gears 1-4 felt "close ratio," did acceleration feel better therefore than standard auto? Does the engine rev higher than 7k rpms? Did you get a chance to bang it off the rev limiter?

Come on! Someone else drive it and post a more in depth review!!!

[ 08-20-2001: Message edited by: TL_Type_S ]

CL SLeePeR

Well, I wish I could've test drove the 6speed. Will the not offer upgrades later if and when the 6 speed is available?

Scorpius

Could they have put in a 3.0 L engine from a normal Accord in there, and tricked you? Hence the smoothness?

Water Rabbit

Who knows, but what would be the point? They are going to have a hard enough time selling the manny tranny without sticking it with an inferior engine. The engine sounds about the same anyway. I think the manual is smooth because Honda makes the smoothest manual transmissions available, that's all.

2002 3.2 CL

There is not much power loss with the automatic compared to stick shift. The automatic has a lock-up torque converter which engages a direct connection between the engine and transmission in third and higher gears. Lock-up eliminates the power-robbing and fuel-wasting slippage inherent in the fluid coupling of an automatic transmission. This feature improves fuel economy. An automatic transmission with a locking torque converter is more efficient than a conventional automatic. So this is no ordinary automatic tranny, it is somehting very special and my friends thing it will be slow because it is an auto and they have there heads shuved to far up there a$$es

CL SLeePeR

Highly doubt that they would downgrade in engine. I think they where just doing the R&D that's needed and then they'll work out any bugs.

mdaniel

The TC only locks up when it thinks you're done accelerating. ie. cruising. During acceleration, the TC is NOT locked and there IS power loss. Show me a manual with 24% loss. Highway mileage may be similar, but the auto still gets much worse mileage when doing the suburban stoplight derby. To say nothing about the squishy feel a TC adds to a car's drivetrain.

TL_Type_S

I agree. Our transmission isn't nearly as advanced as the new trannies being implemented in the the new Mercedes C32, SLK32, with lock-up in all five gears at extremely early rpms during WOT acceleration. Coupled w/ their 35% more efficient shifts (sportshift .. claimed by MB to be faster than traditional manual tranny), they can propel that car to 60mph in under 5 seconds (I guess the 345 hp doesn't hurt either, nor the 330 ft-lbs of torque).

The RSX, as I've read in a post, is achieving 185.X hp to the front wheels! That's 200hp at the crank! Um, that's only a 7.5% loss to the wheels!

I don't know if anyone can imagine what the TL-S/CL-S would be able to do if it only lost 7-10% to the front wheels. This car would truly be capable of sub-6 seconds STOCK runs, and mid 14's in the 1/4.

TL_Type_S

Actually, there really isn't anything terribly special about the Type S tranny.

Water Rabbit

Does anyone know to what extent the Level 10 torque converter and their other transmission upgrades would be likely to improve upon the efficiency of power being delivered to the wheels?

While I'd pick the slushbox over the rowing machine for every situation but the track or drag racing. I'd seriously consider improving the slush box if the end result was faster, more decisive shifting, as well as better durability.

[ 08-21-2001: Message edited by: Wild Weasel ]