Do you guys think the TL is a better car than a 530i?
#42
If anything, the new A-Spec will compare more to the 5 series.
I don't know about the rest of you, but if I were to pay upwards of $50K for a well equiped 5 series that could get walked on by a $30K Acura, I would be furious...
If I had 50K, I would invest in a pre-owned Porsche Turbo, and not even consider the 5 series BMW.
For now, I am a happy owner of a 2001 CL-S that would probably walk on any BMW this side of a M3, M5, 540, etc.
I don't know about the rest of you, but if I were to pay upwards of $50K for a well equiped 5 series that could get walked on by a $30K Acura, I would be furious...
If I had 50K, I would invest in a pre-owned Porsche Turbo, and not even consider the 5 series BMW.
For now, I am a happy owner of a 2001 CL-S that would probably walk on any BMW this side of a M3, M5, 540, etc.
#44
I don't see how they can be compared, like has been said already the price and options list are too different. If Acura package everything the 530 has into the TL then sure. Also some of the premium price comes from BMW designing a platform from the ground up for one model, where Acura as we know is still using versions of the accord platform.
#45
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The 5 series is the benchmark for sportiness in its class, for luxury Id say Audi or Lexus, but face it most of the people here at this site would take sport over luxury any day.
The TL is a better value for whats it got, but th e 530 is the better car of course. At a significant price premium, it very well should be.
Having said that though, in all honesty, I would never get a 530. A car that big and heavy needs more power IMO, so it would have to be at least a 540/5 at least to keep me happy. Being used to the power and acceleration in the TL-S, I couldnt go with anything less and still be happy.
The TL is a better value for whats it got, but th e 530 is the better car of course. At a significant price premium, it very well should be.
Having said that though, in all honesty, I would never get a 530. A car that big and heavy needs more power IMO, so it would have to be at least a 540/5 at least to keep me happy. Being used to the power and acceleration in the TL-S, I couldnt go with anything less and still be happy.
#46
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Originally posted by lou
better car overall ??? in which way
better car overall ??? in which way
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Originally posted by Mr Hyde
The 5 series is the benchmark for sportiness in its class, for luxury Id say Audi or Lexus, but face it most of the people here at this site would take sport over luxury any day.
The 5 series is the benchmark for sportiness in its class, for luxury Id say Audi or Lexus, but face it most of the people here at this site would take sport over luxury any day.
I'm still seeing the same things from the pro-5 series croud.
It's better because it's a 5 series and therefore better.
It's better because it handles better.
etc...
So far, the pro-TL croud seems to have more evidence in their favor (though it's mostly personal preference stuff on either side).
#48
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Bottom line is BMW is truly the ultimate driving machine. Almost anyone that has actually owned/driven a 5 series in any form or fashion with will agree with me here. Those car are worth every penny.
I honestly think what a lot of this is coming down to it looks.
The new 5 looks like ass, the interior is even worse. very non functional (very non bmw)
Where as the new TL looks awesome in and out, and in a 6spd probably has the edge on a 530 for pure speed.
Acuras are great, I love them, but they dont drive like bimmers.
with all that said, because of what bimmer did with its desgn I choose Acura.
TL does have some other advatages ( Nav, and soundsystem) but i wouldnt sneeze at bimmers systems either.
Now as i said earlier, Id reconsider if we were talking about a 545, M5. Looks aside those cars have pure power to match bimmers amazing ride.
SO its pretty subjective but to me the TL>530. Why, mainly design.
I honestly think what a lot of this is coming down to it looks.
The new 5 looks like ass, the interior is even worse. very non functional (very non bmw)
Where as the new TL looks awesome in and out, and in a 6spd probably has the edge on a 530 for pure speed.
Acuras are great, I love them, but they dont drive like bimmers.
with all that said, because of what bimmer did with its desgn I choose Acura.
TL does have some other advatages ( Nav, and soundsystem) but i wouldnt sneeze at bimmers systems either.
Now as i said earlier, Id reconsider if we were talking about a 545, M5. Looks aside those cars have pure power to match bimmers amazing ride.
SO its pretty subjective but to me the TL>530. Why, mainly design.
#49
what if we spoke about safety, re-sale value, climate control, braking...etc. etc.
there is much more than just 0-60 speed.
are both same interior space ?? what about rear seat
there is much more than just 0-60 speed.
are both same interior space ?? what about rear seat
#50
Originally posted by AcuraFan
A lot of people use this as an arguement. The 5 series is the benchmark. And I agree whole hartedly. But, the problem is, saying it's the "benchmark" doesn't automatically unbeatable. First off, the benchmark was set by previous generations of the 5 series...not the current gen. Second, if another car company sets their sights above said benchmark, there's a chance they can surpass it. So just saying "it's the benchmark" doesn't mean it's beyond reproach.
I'm still seeing the same things from the pro-5 series croud.
It's better because it's a 5 series and therefore better.
It's better because it handles better.
etc...
So far, the pro-TL croud seems to have more evidence in their favor (though it's mostly personal preference stuff on either side).
A lot of people use this as an arguement. The 5 series is the benchmark. And I agree whole hartedly. But, the problem is, saying it's the "benchmark" doesn't automatically unbeatable. First off, the benchmark was set by previous generations of the 5 series...not the current gen. Second, if another car company sets their sights above said benchmark, there's a chance they can surpass it. So just saying "it's the benchmark" doesn't mean it's beyond reproach.
I'm still seeing the same things from the pro-5 series croud.
It's better because it's a 5 series and therefore better.
It's better because it handles better.
etc...
So far, the pro-TL croud seems to have more evidence in their favor (though it's mostly personal preference stuff on either side).
How do you put forth evidence in a comparison like this. To compare each car at the top of their game you're looking at a 60k car and a 37k car, already rediculous. Then you bring in the options, logic7 13 speaker sound system from the 7-series, 6-speed automatic/6-speed smg, 20 way power seats (driver and passenger) with 4way paower lumbar, heads up diplay, adaptive cruise, etc etc.
Same can be said about the Tl argument, ohh its faster in a straightline, looks better. A 6-speed TL is going to be faster than the new Lexus Gs300 too, some will say the tl looks better , whats Acura going to better than Lexus also?
#51
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Originally posted by lou
what if we spoke about safety, re-sale value, climate control, braking...etc. etc.
there is much more than just 0-60 speed.
are both same interior space ?? what about rear seat
what if we spoke about safety, re-sale value, climate control, braking...etc. etc.
there is much more than just 0-60 speed.
are both same interior space ?? what about rear seat
I am aware there is more then pure speed and I have given road handling and driving to the bimmer, twice already, it is the ultimate driving machine form a drivers POV.
Both vehicles are very safe. I would put at about even. Yes bimmer does incorporate "newer" safety stuff. But after wrecking to other hondas and walking, well They are both VERY safe vehicles.
Resale value, about the same, bimmer will be higher cause it costs more, but really holds teh same or maybe 1-2% higher.
Both have atuo climate control, both dual, I wouldnt sit here and say Bimmer has better climate.
Interior space, both are pretty roomy, the back seats in 5s are nothing to write home about either. Both utilize space very well. And i will give this one to Acura, actually. Acuras interior is very very very FUNCTIONAL. as makes great use of storage.
Bangle destroyed bimmers driver oriented interior for some piece of shit NON-functional design, even the interiors of the doors suck.
So like i said, because of design TL > 528/530
#52
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Thread Starter
do you guys forget the type of technolgy that went into the new 5series? It far beyond the TL, acura is always playing catch up with the germans.
Does the TL have
iDrive system with on-board computer and controller
Engine-speed-sensitive, variable-assist, vaiable-ratio power steering
6-speed Sequential Manual Gearbox (SMG)
Head-up Display(HUD)
Active Cruise Control (ACC)
Xenon Adaptive Headlights
Park Distance Control (front and rear) with graphic display
Heated steering wheel
Active Roll Stabilization(ARS)
Active Steering with Servotronic power assist
bunch of others also. When it comes to gadets, the acura is plan and simple, they dont take any risks.
This is why the 5-sieres is the benchmark for others to follow
Does the TL have
iDrive system with on-board computer and controller
Engine-speed-sensitive, variable-assist, vaiable-ratio power steering
6-speed Sequential Manual Gearbox (SMG)
Head-up Display(HUD)
Active Cruise Control (ACC)
Xenon Adaptive Headlights
Park Distance Control (front and rear) with graphic display
Heated steering wheel
Active Roll Stabilization(ARS)
Active Steering with Servotronic power assist
bunch of others also. When it comes to gadets, the acura is plan and simple, they dont take any risks.
This is why the 5-sieres is the benchmark for others to follow
#53
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Originally posted by Crazy Sellout
do you guys forget the type of technolgy that went into the new 5series? It far beyond the TL, acura is always playing catch up with the germans.
Does the TL have
iDrive system with on-board computer and controller
Engine-speed-sensitive, variable-assist, vaiable-ratio power steering
6-speed Sequential Manual Gearbox (SMG)
Head-up Display(HUD)
Active Cruise Control (ACC)
Xenon Adaptive Headlights
Park Distance Control (front and rear) with graphic display
Heated steering wheel
Active Roll Stabilization(ARS)
Active Steering with Servotronic power assist
do you guys forget the type of technolgy that went into the new 5series? It far beyond the TL, acura is always playing catch up with the germans.
Does the TL have
iDrive system with on-board computer and controller
Engine-speed-sensitive, variable-assist, vaiable-ratio power steering
6-speed Sequential Manual Gearbox (SMG)
Head-up Display(HUD)
Active Cruise Control (ACC)
Xenon Adaptive Headlights
Park Distance Control (front and rear) with graphic display
Heated steering wheel
Active Roll Stabilization(ARS)
Active Steering with Servotronic power assist
I dont care that bimmer made all these improvement on what is already imo the greatest model of sedan out there. The fact is you have an ugly extrerior and a non-functional interior. A really well thought out and executed interior could have saved my opinion of this car.
This is why i said id only overlook that stuff for a 545/M5
#54
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Originally posted by Crazy Sellout
do you guys forget the type of technolgy that went into the new 5series? It far beyond the TL, acura is always playing catch up with the germans.
Does the TL have
iDrive system with on-board computer and controller
Engine-speed-sensitive, variable-assist, vaiable-ratio power steering
6-speed Sequential Manual Gearbox (SMG)
Head-up Display(HUD)
Active Cruise Control (ACC)
Xenon Adaptive Headlights
Park Distance Control (front and rear) with graphic display
Heated steering wheel
Active Roll Stabilization(ARS)
Active Steering with Servotronic power assist
bunch of others also. When it comes to gadets, the acura is plan and simple, they dont take any risks.
This is why the 5-sieres is the benchmark for others to follow
do you guys forget the type of technolgy that went into the new 5series? It far beyond the TL, acura is always playing catch up with the germans.
Does the TL have
iDrive system with on-board computer and controller
Engine-speed-sensitive, variable-assist, vaiable-ratio power steering
6-speed Sequential Manual Gearbox (SMG)
Head-up Display(HUD)
Active Cruise Control (ACC)
Xenon Adaptive Headlights
Park Distance Control (front and rear) with graphic display
Heated steering wheel
Active Roll Stabilization(ARS)
Active Steering with Servotronic power assist
bunch of others also. When it comes to gadets, the acura is plan and simple, they dont take any risks.
This is why the 5-sieres is the benchmark for others to follow
Does the 530 have Bluetooth and DVD-A, etc?
But now you and Sarlacc are giving some data to back up the "ultimate driving machine" claim...that's what I was looking for...I was getting tired of the "it's the best because it's the best" arguement I was hearing so much.
Next question (and this is reserved for those who actually have experience with the subject)...
How do the transmissions compare? Stick to stick, auto to auto? (don't bring SMG into this because that is obviously not part of the question.)
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Originally posted by AcuraFan
Next question (and this is reserved for those who actually have experience with the subject)...
How do the transmissions compare? Stick to stick, auto to auto? (don't bring SMG into this because that is obviously not part of the question.)
Next question (and this is reserved for those who actually have experience with the subject)...
How do the transmissions compare? Stick to stick, auto to auto? (don't bring SMG into this because that is obviously not part of the question.)
But my friend has a 02 540 6spd. And the 5 manuals are different then the other bimmer manuals (save the M5.) The cluth kind of sucks actually.
It has this weird feeling, if you press it to the floor and start to release it has this "pop" half way up, then continues to engage, Its hard to get used make smooth transistions.
One of the few mods my friend got was to have the bearing in the clutch drilled therefore making the clutch very smooth.
He also put in a short throw shifter cause it was not a close ratio shifter by any means.
Now of course i dont know how this has changed to the new gen.
So, out of the box, im inclined to give the manual tranny in the TL top dog. But like i said bimmer might have rethought this and made it more like their 3 series manulas (smooth clutch, no "pop")
PS: i forgot to mention earlier, i think idrive has pretty much been a flop.
#56
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Thread Starter
Originally posted by AcuraFan
And you can go the other way with the TL...
Does the 530 have Bluetooth and DVD-A, etc?
And you can go the other way with the TL...
Does the 530 have Bluetooth and DVD-A, etc?
But see thats all the TL has over the 5series, is the bluetooth and dvd-audio. But even thats not really advanced over the 5-series since the 530 still can come with
Logic7 sound system with 13 speakers, Surround Sound, Digital Sound Processing (including two subwoofers)
And im sure BMW has a intergrated phone like they have always offered.
#58
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Originally posted by AcuraFan
But now you and Sarlacc are giving some data to back up the "ultimate driving machine" claim...
But now you and Sarlacc are giving some data to back up the "ultimate driving machine" claim...
I owned an 85 5, my father had a 90 5, and my uncle had a 97, and my friend an 02.
3 gens of 5s, each one trumping the other and the one thing. They all felt and drove the same but more and more refined with each new gen. The amazingness of a 5 series just takes the words out my mouth. Its truly awesome.
Its a shame the 5th gens are so fucking ugly.
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Originally posted by Crazy Sellout
But see thats all the TL has over the 5series, is the bluetooth and dvd-audio. But even thats not really advanced over the 5-series since the 530 still can come with
Logic7 sound system with 13 speakers, Surround Sound, Digital Sound Processing (including two subwoofers)
And im sure BMW has a intergrated phone like they have always offered.
But see thats all the TL has over the 5series, is the bluetooth and dvd-audio. But even thats not really advanced over the 5-series since the 530 still can come with
Logic7 sound system with 13 speakers, Surround Sound, Digital Sound Processing (including two subwoofers)
And im sure BMW has a intergrated phone like they have always offered.
But acura is the only company with blue tooth. bmws intergrated phone is some service you have to get to use it. More user friendly for that goes to acura.
Plus the new TL dash is functional and ergonomic, really well thought out. The new 5, well its dash is a waste, period.
#63
Senior Moderator
Thread Starter
Originally posted by Loseit
Why would an enthusiast buy a 530?
Why would an enthusiast buy a 530?
Slap on a supercharger and you are putting down more than 300hp to the rear wheels. Thats the only thing of the car that is lacking for car enthusiasts.
#64
i used to think that 525 was a waste of money...till i drove it...that thing is way smoother than any TL will ever be...I did miss all the rattles from my TL though....its very quiet inside...it also handles way better....but its also a more expensive car...so its like comparing a Benz CLK500 to a infiniti G35c...which one would you pick>>>
#65
The Creator
Originally posted by Crazy Sellout
[B]do you guys forget the type of technolgy that went into the new 5series? It far beyond the TL, acura is always playing catch up with the germans.
[B]do you guys forget the type of technolgy that went into the new 5series? It far beyond the TL, acura is always playing catch up with the germans.
but... most of the components you mention and many you dont ARE available on Hondas elsewhere. they arent offered her for marketing/cost reasons... has nothing to do with playing catchup.
iDrive system with on-board computer and controller
Everything else on "iDrive" isnt much of an innovation. Glorified trip computer.
Engine-speed-sensitive, variable-assist, vaiable-ratio power steering
6-speed Sequential Manual Gearbox (SMG)
Regardless... this is about TL vs 530...
To get SMG in a 530 requires a $4800 package! Bringing MSRP OVER 50 GRAND!!!
I'm sorry... but you are no longer comparing Apples to Apples at mid-30s vs 50's.
Head-up Display(HUD)
WOW... BIG DEAL. Pontiac had HUD over a decade ago. Cadillac has been employing it readily for years in their newer cars.
You can get `HUD` units for $20 from fuking Pep Boys.
The BMW system is cool. But again... part of a $2800 package requiring navi. Again bringing 530 w/ Leather OVER 50K!!!
Active Cruise Control (ACC)
Not available in Acura no.
$2200 package in 530.
Xenon Adaptive Headlights
Park Distance Control (front and rear) with graphic display
But yea... Acura of North America will be playing catch up to BMW on this.
Heated steering wheel
Active Roll Stabilization(ARS)
Active Steering with Servotronic power assist
bunch of others also. When it comes to gadets, the acura is plan and simple, they dont take any risks.
Hmm... Surround Sound DVD Audio, 8" navi, etc etc etc... including a whole shitload of STANDARD components that are part of several thousand dollar packages on a 530.
This is why the 5-sieres is the benchmark for others to follow
#68
DC Cruiser
Re: Do you guys think the TL is a better car than a 530i?
Originally posted by Crazy Sellout
Guys over on a differnt acura forum are saying the TL is a overall better car than a bmw 530i. They say the TL shouldnt be compared to the 3series either.
From your experiences with acura, would you find that to be true?
Guys over on a differnt acura forum are saying the TL is a overall better car than a bmw 530i. They say the TL shouldnt be compared to the 3series either.
From your experiences with acura, would you find that to be true?
Reliability, maintenance, handling, overall cabin/exterior styling, and price/cost are all very different between the two. Apples to Oranges.
#69
i think the new 5 looks a hell of a lot better than the Acura inside and esp outside. have you seen a 530 in nice rims and tints? its jaw dropping. cant really say teh same ab the TL. Of course the TL is a better bang for the buck, but you are comparing a Honda to a BMW.
#71
Originally posted by sarlacc23
Bottom line is BMW is truly the ultimate driving machine. Almost anyone that has actually owned/driven a 5 series in any form or fashion with will agree with me here. Those car are worth every penny.
I honestly think what a lot of this is coming down to it looks.
The new 5 looks like ass, the interior is even worse. very non functional (very non bmw)
Where as the new TL looks awesome in and out, and in a 6spd probably has the edge on a 530 for pure speed.
Acuras are great, I love them, but they dont drive like bimmers.
with all that said, because of what bimmer did with its desgn I choose Acura.
TL does have some other advatages ( Nav, and soundsystem) but i wouldnt sneeze at bimmers systems either.
Now as i said earlier, Id reconsider if we were talking about a 545, M5. Looks aside those cars have pure power to match bimmers amazing ride.
SO its pretty subjective but to me the TL>530. Why, mainly design.
Bottom line is BMW is truly the ultimate driving machine. Almost anyone that has actually owned/driven a 5 series in any form or fashion with will agree with me here. Those car are worth every penny.
I honestly think what a lot of this is coming down to it looks.
The new 5 looks like ass, the interior is even worse. very non functional (very non bmw)
Where as the new TL looks awesome in and out, and in a 6spd probably has the edge on a 530 for pure speed.
Acuras are great, I love them, but they dont drive like bimmers.
with all that said, because of what bimmer did with its desgn I choose Acura.
TL does have some other advatages ( Nav, and soundsystem) but i wouldnt sneeze at bimmers systems either.
Now as i said earlier, Id reconsider if we were talking about a 545, M5. Looks aside those cars have pure power to match bimmers amazing ride.
SO its pretty subjective but to me the TL>530. Why, mainly design.
Do you also believe that Lexus' goal is achieving perfection, as they state on their commercials?
Have you ever driven a Porsche, Ferrari, Lotus?
BMW should state "ultimate driving machine in our class".
#72
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Soopa makes some great comparisons in his post, but don’t forget if you buy the BMW you instantly have that “I got a bigger dick then you” attitude thing going for you.
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Originally posted by Jaydef03
have you seen a 530 in nice rims and tints? its jaw dropping.
have you seen a 530 in nice rims and tints? its jaw dropping.
(admittedly, I haven't seen it with rims and tints...but nothing can save this monstrocity)
#74
Senior Moderator
Originally posted by Shawn S
Soopa makes some great comparisons in his post, but don’t forget if you buy the BMW you instantly have that “I got a bigger dick then you” attitude thing going for you.
Soopa makes some great comparisons in his post, but don’t forget if you buy the BMW you instantly have that “I got a bigger dick then you” attitude thing going for you.
What's the difference between a porcupine and a BMW...
on the porcupine, the pricks are on the outside
That being said, I'd even take a 330 over the new TL. The price difference btween them is less then it was last year and the new TL's looks just don't do anything for me.
#75
The Creator
Originally posted by Bluto
A 5 series is a better car. But it cost more.
If a 525 was 33k, I'd take it over the TL.
A 5 series is a better car. But it cost more.
If a 525 was 33k, I'd take it over the TL.
if it was a near fully equipped 525...... I would too.
my point was simply that... to get similar technology of the TL in a 525.... you are going to be paying more than 55,000 MSRP plus taxes and LUXURY tax (not due on TL) for a what... 180hp car.
hardly a comparison if you ask me.
but if money was no object................. and looks/interior werent subjective......... based on badges and gadgets alone...... i think id pick the bimmer. oh.... and if the bimmer had compareable power.
#76
The Creator
Originally posted by Shawn S
Soopa makes some great comparisons in his post, but don’t forget if you buy the BMW you instantly have that “I got a bigger dick then you” attitude thing going for you.
Soopa makes some great comparisons in his post, but don’t forget if you buy the BMW you instantly have that “I got a bigger dick then you” attitude thing going for you.
was simply disputing Jesal's DISinformation. he does that alot when he thinks everyones got his back...
dunno why we cant just stick to the facts.
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Originally posted by Gabo3k
Come on man, are you really sold on that "Ultimate driving machine" marketing talk?
Do you also believe that Lexus' goal is achieving perfection, as they state on their commercials?
Have you ever driven a Porsche, Ferrari, Lotus?
BMW should state "ultimate driving machine in our class".
Come on man, are you really sold on that "Ultimate driving machine" marketing talk?
Do you also believe that Lexus' goal is achieving perfection, as they state on their commercials?
Have you ever driven a Porsche, Ferrari, Lotus?
BMW should state "ultimate driving machine in our class".
Since my parents have owned 3 Lexus over the years and checking out every new model since then, yes, i believe their goal is to try and acheive perfection, they arent far from it.
Yes I have driven a Lotus. Those last three are all pure sports cars. A BMW is a sports car, a luxury car, and a practical everyday car all in one. I stand by the statement of ultimate driving machine.
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I never took this as a who is better arguement. We all know who is better (coughbimmercough)
I took this thread as for cost and options and looks which would you rather own, if you had a choice.
And over a 530 I still say a TL.
I took this thread as for cost and options and looks which would you rather own, if you had a choice.
And over a 530 I still say a TL.
#79
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Thread Starter
Originally posted by soopa
yup. wasnt saying in that post that either is better than the other....
was simply disputing Jesal's DISinformation. he does that alot when he thinks everyones got his back...
dunno why we cant just stick to the facts.
yup. wasnt saying in that post that either is better than the other....
was simply disputing Jesal's DISinformation. he does that alot when he thinks everyones got his back...
dunno why we cant just stick to the facts.
#80
Originally posted by sarlacc23
As previously stated, I owned a 5 series, and have driven several other bimmers. Yes i believe that statment when i say. It is the perfect blend of sport, comfort and luxury.
Since my parents have owned 3 Lexus over the years and checking out every new model since then, yes, i believe their goal is to try and acheive perfection, they arent far from it.
Yes I have driven a Lotus. Those last three are all pure sports cars. A BMW is a sports car, a luxury car, and a practical everyday car all in one. I stand by the statement of ultimate driving machine.
As previously stated, I owned a 5 series, and have driven several other bimmers. Yes i believe that statment when i say. It is the perfect blend of sport, comfort and luxury.
Since my parents have owned 3 Lexus over the years and checking out every new model since then, yes, i believe their goal is to try and acheive perfection, they arent far from it.
Yes I have driven a Lotus. Those last three are all pure sports cars. A BMW is a sports car, a luxury car, and a practical everyday car all in one. I stand by the statement of ultimate driving machine.
Also, you do realize that perfection is humanly impossible, right! And even if perfection was attainable, Lexus would not be the company to achieve it...