Is there any difference between CAI and Under the Hood Intake or they are the same thing or purpose.

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2001 CL-S Satin Silver/Ebnoy
Spoiler, moonroof visor, 20% Tint, V1
Mobil 1 Oil/Oil Filter and PIAA 19170/19173
On its way - X-Pel/Upgrade Cup Holder

 

Simple concept to remember....The more air and cooler the air results in more response from your motor...CAI is away from the heat of your motor and is sucking in cooler air which results in more horsepower...Car can breathe better...I noticed a dramatic difference with my CAI sucking in cooler air and then with the headers to release the air at a quicker rate...Think of your motor as a Big Air Pump...IMO

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Silver 01' Type-S
Acura loyalty
retired a 2000 TL and a 94' Acura Legend Coupe
Comptech Springs
Comptech axle-back exhaust
Comptech headers
AEM CAI
yellow bumper (fog lights) bulbs
Clear Headlights

 

Is there anything else or is that it?

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2001 CL-S Satin Silver/Ebnoy
Spoiler, moonroof visor, 20% Tint, V1
Mobil 1 Oil/Oil Filter and PIAA 19170/19173
On its way - X-Pel/Upgrade Cup Holder

 

Is that it? what do you mean? as for Intakes?

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Silver 01' Type-S
Acura loyalty
retired a 2000 TL and a 94' Acura Legend Coupe
Comptech Springs
Comptech axle-back exhaust
Comptech headers
AEM CAI
yellow bumper (fog lights) bulbs
Clear Headlights

 

It think there is more to all of this. The full CAI will always get the coldest air from the bottom of the car. However, when the "guys" are showing the dyno gains, these are without the car moving, so there is got to be gains from getting rid of the stock air filter box etc. (I am assuming that they test with the engine hood open during dyno runs, with a fan running in the dyno room.)

Xepher (Chris) said he was going to do some more dynos of the short ram vs. the full length CAI. Those [charts] should be used as base line comparisons. Once the car is moving, the "short" version could get the same cold air as the "longer/full ram" version, provided all of the OEM air components (air box, resonator, and other pieces) have been removed to allow the cold air from below to circulate up to the short air's intake. This assumes that the car is moving and the hot air (at the top of the engine bay) gets displaced by the cold air mixing in (once the car gets moving).

I suspect that there will be some difference in hp/torque curves between the short and long versions. The CAIs (like Xepher's and AEMs have much better air filters, and smoother air flow than the stock units. (The stock resonator is making the air do almost an 180 degree change in direction, and gas doesn't like reversing directions, etc., etc.)

(Note: Another one of my one opinions based on some experience, other people's opinions, searching forums, and various car hop-up articles.)


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2001 Satin Silver Cl-S w/ NAVI

• Mud Guards
• Wheel locks
• Toyo 235/45ZR17-97W* T1S Proxies on Stock 17" CLS wheels
• Gtech 1/8th tank 40F ~=6.1
• Zaino magic
• Sways, headers, CAI comming soon

[This message has been edited by EricL (edited 03-12-2001).]

 

Is that the only difference or is there more to it than what you answer CL-SUPER. Thanks for the help guys.

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2001 CL-S Satin Silver/Ebnoy
Spoiler, moonroof visor, 20% Tint, V1
Mobil 1 Oil/Oil Filter and PIAA 19170/19173
On its way - X-Pel/Upgrade Cup Holder

 

2sexy--up for a meet this week?? checkout the topic 'hey webtoker'

 

on the civics people found out that the short intakes are better at producing more low end torque and hp than the full CAI. But the CAI makes more high end power. And Import tuner just did a test where they removed the KN filter from an Intake and it only gained .2 hp. So KN put a lot of research into their filters.

 

I agree that it is more than just cold air that makes the additional power. The increase in air flow is responsible for the largest gains. The air pump model mentioned above is what most people refer to.

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2001 Silver 3.2CLS
-Muds, Spoiler, Hardwire 8500, Prolarg M-6 lamps
Planning: Comptech Headers, Sways, CAI

 

Eric,

I have not done extensive testing of the under-hood air flow, however there is not a significant amount of cold air that is funneled up through the opening of the stock assembly. Partially becuase +60% of the filter is against the fender,wheel well and battery which does not produce an efficient air draw from colder sources. The portion most exposed to draw air through the filter is the top which maintains temperatures from 80 - 170 degrees circulating through the top of the engine bay. The gin of the Short-Ram is primarily in intake velocity not temperature. Hope This helps...


Chris

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2001 Nighthawk Black CLS Type S - Xephyr Performance CAI, PIAA 19173(Yellow) Road Lamp Upgrades, Full Wood Trim, Spoiler, 1/4 Mile in 14.424@97.23 MPH Atco Raceway Best GTECH Sprint 6.05 Xephyr Performance Intakes

 

So, are you talking about "static" conditions, or did you put a temp gauge and drive it at various speeds. (Yea, leave it to inquiring minds...)

I think I didn't make it clear, that I was talking about removing all of the parts that one would remove for a "full" CAI install. Then just run the short intake with the K&N sitting between the battery and the fender.

BTW -- K&N must make really good air filters. I have that Sport Compact Car issue from April were they swapped out the Maxima's stock air filter and replaced it with a K&N for a 4hp gain. Then removed it (for research purposes) and gained virtually nothing. That is a killer air filter!

(another $0.02 production)


------------------
2001 Satin Silver Cl-S w/ NAVI

• Mud Guards
• Wheel locks
• Toyo 235/45ZR17-97W* T1S Proxies on Stock 17" CLS wheels
• Gtech 1/8th tank 40F ~=6.1
• Zaino magic
• Sways, headers, CAI comming soon

 

EricL:

So, are you talking about "static" conditions, or did you put a temp gauge and drive it at various speeds. (Yea, leave it to inquiring minds...)
God... your starting to sound like Nashua a few weeks ago LOL ... Just joking Nashua Yes I did use an electronic thermometer for dynamic under hood testing, approx. 10-20-30-40 mins. driving then reading the temp. however I did not employ the most scientific model for the measurements.

I think I didn't make it clear, that I was talking about removing all of the parts that one would remove for a "full" CAI install. Then just run the short intake with the K&N sitting between the battery and the fender.
That is actually what I was referring to in my post above, the airflow is predominently from the top lateral/dorsal of the filter

BTW -- K&N must make really good air filters. I have that Sport Compact Car issue from April were they swapped out the Maxima's stock air filter and replaced it with a K&N for a 4hp gain. Then removed it (for research purposes) and gained virtually nothing. That is a killer air filter!
K&N is the undisputed leader in performance, quality, and longevity when it comes to Air Filtration... A clear and easy choice for me to incorporate their products in my own

Hope this helps Eric


Chris
Xephyr Performance, LLC.


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2001 Nighthawk Black CLS Type S - Xephyr Performance CAI, PIAA 19173(Yellow) Road Lamp Upgrades, Full Wood Trim, Spoiler, 1/4 Mile in 14.424@97.23 MPH Atco Raceway Best GTECH Sprint 6.05 Xephyr Performance Intakes

 

Based on your research, it sure sounds like there would be a lot of HP loss with the short intake due to loss in air density. Since you have "done the work", there must be a difference in the way the air is getting to some of the Civics and other cars with the short intakes. I could go pull out some temp tables, but my "guess-o-meter" tells me that 120 degrees going in a short intake is not going to "touch" the results of a long one pulling in 60-70 degree air (or colder air).

Thanks for the data.



------------------
2001 Satin Silver Cl-S w/ NAVI

• Mud Guards
• Wheel locks
• Toyo 235/45ZR17-97W* T1S Proxies on Stock 17" CLS wheels
• Gtech 1/8th tank 40F ~=6.1
• Zaino magic
• Sways, headers, CAI comming soon

 

EricL,

Depending on the car in question there are circumstances that may vary the outcomes. However, Keep in mind with a good quality filter all cars will still receive a better normalized volumetric boost. Also, with less of an impact, but with some, with a "shorty" setup there is a lower drag coefficient through the shorter tube and in some cases less bends (even mandrel bends reduce velocity) equating a slightly better to -> better intake velocity.



Chris

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2001 Nighthawk Black CLS Type S - Xephyr Performance CAI, PIAA 19173(Yellow) Road Lamp Upgrades, Full Wood Trim, Spoiler, 1/4 Mile in 14.424@97.23 MPH Atco Raceway Best GTECH Sprint 6.05 Xephyr Performance Intakes

[This message has been edited by Xephyr2K (edited 03-12-2001).]

 

Chris,

I got the loss of energy thing. Short pipe, no bends, etc. I think I was saying that based on your temps (being empirically measured), the "shorty" is going to be getting some rather hot air compared to the ambient air temp. Even the stock system goes out of its way to get air from the bottom of the car (relatively speaking). So, if you are getting really hot temps, and loose x% air density, there is a point where the loss of air density totally negates any improved pumping gains.

If you do your dynos on the "shorty" -- can you do one with the hood closed to best simulate real world operating conditions.

Sorry, haven't ordered that flow dynamics and CAD system that AEM was bragging about.






------------------
2001 Satin Silver Cl-S w/ NAVI

• Mud Guards
• Wheel locks
• Toyo 235/45ZR17-97W* T1S Proxies on Stock 17" CLS wheels
• Gtech 1/8th tank 40F ~=6.1
• Zaino magic
• Sways, headers, CAI comming soon

 

LOL, Well the CAD programs are great for modeling the actual design and "text-book" airflow.... And the flow dynamic plugin for Autocad is also a nice "tool" however, its's extraordinarily difficult to accurately simulate actual intake airflow through the design of the CL (lack of ported induction opening)due to the design of that nose LOL. It comes down to a lot of trial and error work to really make it work for best gains. But, I hear where your coming from and all of the points you make are very valid ones. I will post the shorty dyno's just as soon as I make the runs for you Also, running a Dyno with the hood closed is a very, very, very, very, very, very bad thing to do ... LOL 110MPH@6900RPM without airflowing around the engine ... ouchy! hot !! LOL

Chris
Xephyr Performance, LLC.

------------------
2001 Nighthawk Black CLS Type S - Xephyr Performance CAI, PIAA 19173(Yellow) Road Lamp Upgrades, Full Wood Trim, Spoiler, 1/4 Mile in 14.424@97.23 MPH Atco Raceway Best GTECH Sprint 6.05 Xephyr Performance Intakes

 

One word -- electric air fans at front of car. I was asking you to fry the paint on your hood

Hey, we can ask can't we. After all you have those six test bed vehicles now -- don't you?




------------------
2001 Satin Silver Cl-S w/ NAVI

• Mud Guards
• Wheel locks
• Toyo 235/45ZR17-97W* T1S Proxies on Stock 17" CLS wheels
• Gtech 1/8th tank 40F ~=6.1
• Zaino magic
• Sways, headers, CAI comming soon

 

LOL, no down to 5 now..... Forgot to change the connecting rods when I did the test swap of the MDX crank LOL

Chris

------------------
2001 Nighthawk Black CLS Type S - Xephyr Performance CAI, PIAA 19173(Yellow) Road Lamp Upgrades, Full Wood Trim, Spoiler, 1/4 Mile in 14.424@97.23 MPH Atco Raceway Best GTECH Sprint 6.05 Xephyr Performance Intakes

 

Only contribution I have besides what you guys have already contributed is that your stock intake system is a cold air system already. Why do you think resonator is in the wheel well of your car. :P

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1997 Acura 2.2 CL (5spd)

-Mod list too long to load
-If you ask me if I have that mod... my reply would be probably yes.
-Have any questions about the car... I'll try to help.
-Is my car fast? ... comon be real, even with a Prelude motor it still wouldn't be.

 

Yep, I guess my posts are getting too long but I did say, "Even the stock system goes out of its way to get air from the bottom of the car (relatively speaking)..." in one of the comments above."

1. I don't know if Chris (Xepher) or whoever, ever did a test of HP gain with the stock air filter gone (they did get a 4hp gain on a Maxima just switching to a K&N) (Also, mentioned above).

I guess all of that "nasty" plumbing and resonator etc. (in the factory unit) isn't exactly doing wonderful things for the air flow.


Perhaps a new term is required. "Low Restriction Air Induction Replacement."

I can just see the buyer's looks now, "I want a LRAIR for my car."




------------------
2001 Satin Silver Cl-S w/ NAVI

• Mud Guards
• Wheel locks
• Toyo 235/45ZR17-97W* T1S Proxies on Stock 17" CLS wheels
• Gtech 1/8th tank 40F ~=6.1
• Zaino magic
• 14.8lb 17x8" SSR Competition rims on the way
• Sways, headers, CAI comming soon