Destroyed a Pontiac Firebird Formula Coupe
#121
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Originally posted by Fast Gold
U have headers right? I only gained 3whp on my Acura CL type S with the comptech exhaust...Im sure u will gain more than 3whp because u have a SC, but a very good flowing exhaust will drop ur boost by 1psi or so. Im sure u will need a smaller pulley. How much boost are u running now? U should be trapping between 110-112mph with 360whp on a dyno jet.
U have headers right? I only gained 3whp on my Acura CL type S with the comptech exhaust...Im sure u will gain more than 3whp because u have a SC, but a very good flowing exhaust will drop ur boost by 1psi or so. Im sure u will need a smaller pulley. How much boost are u running now? U should be trapping between 110-112mph with 360whp on a dyno jet.
so try the better exhaust, don't worry about boost, you'll see gains...trust me, just ask an '03 Cobra guy
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by the by...262 tq at the wheels seems a little low to trap 112 imho, i could be wrong
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Just my .02
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#122
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Originally posted by Infiltr8r
Just so you know, losing boost isn't neccessarily losing power. Boost is backpressure, not flow of air, so if you increase the efficiency of the engine (better heads, intake, exhaust), then yes, backpressure will drop, but airflow will increase, increasing hp and tq. Look at turbo engines. You'll hear guys with twin turbo setups making 7 psi, running like 500~800 hp on a V8 or straight 6 engine...but that's just because in the upper rpm range, the turbo flows so much more air than the rpm limited s/c.
so try the better exhaust, don't worry about boost, you'll see gains...trust me, just ask an '03 Cobra guy
by the by...262 tq at the wheels seems a little low to trap 112 imho, i could be wrong
Just so you know, losing boost isn't neccessarily losing power. Boost is backpressure, not flow of air, so if you increase the efficiency of the engine (better heads, intake, exhaust), then yes, backpressure will drop, but airflow will increase, increasing hp and tq. Look at turbo engines. You'll hear guys with twin turbo setups making 7 psi, running like 500~800 hp on a V8 or straight 6 engine...but that's just because in the upper rpm range, the turbo flows so much more air than the rpm limited s/c.
so try the better exhaust, don't worry about boost, you'll see gains...trust me, just ask an '03 Cobra guy
![Big Grin](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
by the by...262 tq at the wheels seems a little low to trap 112 imho, i could be wrong
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He was saying that the decreased boost was probably resulting in increased power as the engine was using it better.
And no one said the original poster who made 262 TQ would trap at 112 MPH. A single torque value would not be indicative of trap speed. Hypothetically, if a car could rev to 20,000 RPM it could use gearing to trap that high if not higher while only making 100 lb/ft.
The statement about trapping 112 was from me and is speculation on what the potential power will soon be. I made 281 lb/ft before the IC and should make well over 300 lb/ft and 370 WHP with the IC and more boost. This, with the current gearing, should allow me to trap in that range.
#123
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Originally posted by Infiltr8r
Just so you know, losing boost isn't neccessarily losing power. Boost is backpressure, not flow of air, so if you increase the efficiency of the engine (better heads, intake, exhaust), then yes, backpressure will drop, but airflow will increase, increasing hp and tq. Look at turbo engines. You'll hear guys with twin turbo setups making 7 psi, running like 500~800 hp on a V8 or straight 6 engine...but that's just because in the upper rpm range, the turbo flows so much more air than the rpm limited s/c.
so try the better exhaust, don't worry about boost, you'll see gains...trust me, just ask an '03 Cobra guy
by the by...262 tq at the wheels seems a little low to trap 112 imho, i could be wrong
Just my .02
Just so you know, losing boost isn't neccessarily losing power. Boost is backpressure, not flow of air, so if you increase the efficiency of the engine (better heads, intake, exhaust), then yes, backpressure will drop, but airflow will increase, increasing hp and tq. Look at turbo engines. You'll hear guys with twin turbo setups making 7 psi, running like 500~800 hp on a V8 or straight 6 engine...but that's just because in the upper rpm range, the turbo flows so much more air than the rpm limited s/c.
so try the better exhaust, don't worry about boost, you'll see gains...trust me, just ask an '03 Cobra guy
![Big Grin](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
by the by...262 tq at the wheels seems a little low to trap 112 imho, i could be wrong
![Big Grin](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
Just my .02
![Big Grin](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
#124
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i guess my statement was a little too broad to make a valid point or to be of help, plus I was rushing to get to work....oh well, but thank you for the clarification
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#125
sigh...
Originally posted by cls6sp03
You are incorrect:
Max factory stock specs (from pontiac website) for even a 2002 Firebird Formula Coupe, 5.7L V8, 6MT is 325 HP/340 TQ at the crank, NOT WHP. So considering the loss to the wheels, it would have less WHP than my 305 WHP S/Cd CLS 6MT. Torque would be very close.
You are incorrect:
Max factory stock specs (from pontiac website) for even a 2002 Firebird Formula Coupe, 5.7L V8, 6MT is 325 HP/340 TQ at the crank, NOT WHP. So considering the loss to the wheels, it would have less WHP than my 305 WHP S/Cd CLS 6MT. Torque would be very close.
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#126
boosted is best
Thread Starter
Re: sigh...
Originally posted by numbaonestunna
He's NOT incorrect. You know nothing about the car you're racing, and you look it up online. I dont' even OWN a Firebird, neverhad, but I know that plenty of them dyno 310-315 at the wheels bone stock.... they're underrated. It's a RWD car, and from a launch I'd still have money on a Firebird over you, unless you think your FWD "advantage" will pull you through....
He's NOT incorrect. You know nothing about the car you're racing, and you look it up online. I dont' even OWN a Firebird, neverhad, but I know that plenty of them dyno 310-315 at the wheels bone stock.... they're underrated. It's a RWD car, and from a launch I'd still have money on a Firebird over you, unless you think your FWD "advantage" will pull you through....
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As far as the #'s I quoted, they were from an official GM-Pontiac factory brochure. I find it hard to believe that the factory would derate the HP rating as much as some claim. It doesn't make good marketing sense. But if what you say is true, then explain why I've searched and found a large sampling of dyno's for stock firebird 4ATs and they vary greatly; from as low as 260 WHP to as much as 350 WHP. So who's numbers can we believe?
Be that as it may, it really doesn't matter to me if my car has more or less HP than some firebirds or that I can or can't beat firebirds in a race. But it appears to matter a lot to others in this thread.
#127
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As far as the #'s I quoted, they were from an official GM-Pontiac factory brochure. I find it hard to believe that the factory would derate the HP rating as much as some claim. It doesn't make good marketing sense. But if what you say is true, then explain why I've searched and found a large sampling of dyno's for stock firebird 4ATs and they vary greatly; from as low as 260 WHP to as much as 350 WHP. So who's numbers can we believe?
#128
if you only knew...
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Originally posted by cls6sp03
Why can't you accept the fact that I beat some guy in his firebird, instead of trying to prove it never could have happened.
What I really believe is that you can't stand the idea of a V6 beating a V8 which is why you are so bound and determined to prove things otherwise, starting to grasp at straws.
Why can't you accept the fact that I beat some guy in his firebird, instead of trying to prove it never could have happened.
What I really believe is that you can't stand the idea of a V6 beating a V8 which is why you are so bound and determined to prove things otherwise, starting to grasp at straws.
Before I bought my CLS, I test drove the last of the Trans Ams. If I was just buying for speed, I might have gone for it, they're fast as hell right off the lot. But a modded CLS gives you good old Honda reliability and a more comfortable ride as well as more than all the speed I need.
Anyway, congrats on beating that Firebird!
#129
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I personally have never seen an LS1 F-body dyno any lower than 280rwhp bone stock unless there was something wrong with the car. I have been to maore dyno days than I care to admit and most autos are 290-305rwhp. Sticks being in the 300-315range with a few ringers at 320rwhp.
But you won the race and that's all that matters. Not what it took to win it right?
Ohh, I still wanna race you in my truck though. Lemme know the next time you end up at Sac Raceway and we can set something up. Power adder to Power adder
But you won the race and that's all that matters. Not what it took to win it right?
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Ohh, I still wanna race you in my truck though. Lemme know the next time you end up at Sac Raceway and we can set something up. Power adder to Power adder
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#130
boosted is best
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Originally posted by michiamo
Let's face it, out on the streets, anything's possible. Here's a good example: I watched a Honda Civic (w/like $30K in mods) beat a Viper. Granted it wasn't a runaway, and over the long haul, the Viper probably would have won. But it was a short race, the Honda was better at launching, and he won.
Before I bought my CLS, I test drove the last of the Trans Ams. If I was just buying for speed, I might have gone for it, they're fast as hell right off the lot. But a modded CLS gives you good old Honda reliability and a more comfortable ride as well as more than all the speed I need.
Anyway, congrats on beating that Firebird!
Let's face it, out on the streets, anything's possible. Here's a good example: I watched a Honda Civic (w/like $30K in mods) beat a Viper. Granted it wasn't a runaway, and over the long haul, the Viper probably would have won. But it was a short race, the Honda was better at launching, and he won.
Before I bought my CLS, I test drove the last of the Trans Ams. If I was just buying for speed, I might have gone for it, they're fast as hell right off the lot. But a modded CLS gives you good old Honda reliability and a more comfortable ride as well as more than all the speed I need.
Anyway, congrats on beating that Firebird!
#131
boosted is best
Thread Starter
Originally posted by F8LZ71
I personally have never seen an LS1 F-body dyno any lower than 280rwhp bone stock unless there was something wrong with the car. I have been to maore dyno days than I care to admit and most autos are 290-305rwhp. Sticks being in the 300-315range with a few ringers at 320rwhp.
But you won the race and that's all that matters. Not what it took to win it right?
Ohh, I still wanna race you in my truck though. Lemme know the next time you end up at Sac Raceway and we can set something up. Power adder to Power adder
I personally have never seen an LS1 F-body dyno any lower than 280rwhp bone stock unless there was something wrong with the car. I have been to maore dyno days than I care to admit and most autos are 290-305rwhp. Sticks being in the 300-315range with a few ringers at 320rwhp.
But you won the race and that's all that matters. Not what it took to win it right?
![Cool](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/cool.gif)
Ohh, I still wanna race you in my truck though. Lemme know the next time you end up at Sac Raceway and we can set something up. Power adder to Power adder
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#132
Quicker than U Think
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Anyone who doesn't believe that F-body LS1s are underrated by a good amount is smoking some highly illegal sh!t!!! You probably think SRT4s aren't underrated either.
As for the Civic/Viper race, if that is the one that has been all over the net, the race involved the Viper taking off in 2nd gear, thats why the start looked so bad. The Civic wouldn't race him if he launched in 1st. So much for run what ya brung.
As for the Civic/Viper race, if that is the one that has been all over the net, the race involved the Viper taking off in 2nd gear, thats why the start looked so bad. The Civic wouldn't race him if he launched in 1st. So much for run what ya brung.
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#133
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you guys just don't get the auto trans in the GM f bods. It's easier to launch and runs nearly the same times, esp ets.
my brother has a 99 ta, ram air, 01 intake, full exhaust, 6 spd, he runs 13.1@112; my 99 ss, auto, with cold air (no shorty headers, no 01 intake, no 6spd - should run at least down 30 hp) runs 13.1@109 on the stock rubber and on the drag radials has run 12.84@109 generally 12.9s.
stock to stock, the 6 spd might get you by a mph in the traps, but its not like the low torque, hi revving 3.2 with a crappy 5 auto behind it compared to the narrow range 6 spd in our acuras where there's a big difference.
The one place the 6 spd shines is at 80 mph, too slow for the auto to drop to 2nd, normally shifts at about 85 into 3rd, and doesn't really start to pull hard until you hit about 95 where it runs hard all the way out to about 130. that's in the middle of 3rd gear in the 6 spd and from a roll my brother gets a nice jump if we go from that speed 75-80, once the jump ends it evens out. a little faster and he's got to go 3rd to 4th and the auto is pulling nicely, a little slower and he's around the top of 2nd, bottom of 3rd and the auto drops to 2nd and will run him side by side.
Joe
my brother has a 99 ta, ram air, 01 intake, full exhaust, 6 spd, he runs 13.1@112; my 99 ss, auto, with cold air (no shorty headers, no 01 intake, no 6spd - should run at least down 30 hp) runs 13.1@109 on the stock rubber and on the drag radials has run 12.84@109 generally 12.9s.
stock to stock, the 6 spd might get you by a mph in the traps, but its not like the low torque, hi revving 3.2 with a crappy 5 auto behind it compared to the narrow range 6 spd in our acuras where there's a big difference.
The one place the 6 spd shines is at 80 mph, too slow for the auto to drop to 2nd, normally shifts at about 85 into 3rd, and doesn't really start to pull hard until you hit about 95 where it runs hard all the way out to about 130. that's in the middle of 3rd gear in the 6 spd and from a roll my brother gets a nice jump if we go from that speed 75-80, once the jump ends it evens out. a little faster and he's got to go 3rd to 4th and the auto is pulling nicely, a little slower and he's around the top of 2nd, bottom of 3rd and the auto drops to 2nd and will run him side by side.
Joe
#134
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oh but on the street, anything can and does happen. last time i raced my other brother, he has an lt1 auto, was in the acura, one run he was gate shifting and simply forgot to shift out of first, hit the rev limiter hard, a few times and i walked right by him. he couldn't catch up on the way to 105. but i didn't beat him by 6 lengths but then again, my acura is an auto, header/cold air car only.
Joe
(yes the other times he took me out)
Joe
(yes the other times he took me out)
#135
4th Gear
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Originally posted by cls6sp03
Sure, but your vette looks even more enticing. I always like a good challenge.
Sure, but your vette looks even more enticing. I always like a good challenge.
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I can't come in here and flame. Everyone seems to be a good sport and fairly open to debate
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#136
Selling Chicken Parts
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Originally posted by F8LZ71
I can't come in here and flame. Everyone seems to be a good sport and fairly open to debate
I can't come in here and flame. Everyone seems to be a good sport and fairly open to debate
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Funny, that's what I joined this forum to do, but the guys were so cool, I pulled up a chair and sat for a chat...
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Anywho...I got spanked by a CL-S 6m Friday night.
Gotcha!! Please, after 4 feet, I never saw him again...that LT1 isn't dead yet!
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#138
True, anything can happend on the street and proves nothing.
I dont care if Geo Metro on spray
will show you tail it still kicked you ass. So win is a win, however the REAL BATTLE on the TRACK ONLY.
I dont care if Geo Metro on spray
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