CL-S vs Z06 vs Nissan Armada
08-30-2010, 12:38 PM
#41
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What?
As long as you keep posting bald-faced lies and trying to convince me that an automobile needs to have its horsepower and/or torque significantly augmented to deal with daily driving conditions I'll continue to shoot your pointless, baseless arguments down.
As long as you keep posting bald-faced lies and trying to convince me that an automobile needs to have its horsepower and/or torque significantly augmented to deal with daily driving conditions I'll continue to shoot your pointless, baseless arguments down.
Last edited by Sideswipe; 08-30-2010 at 12:41 PM.
08-30-2010, 01:00 PM
#42
COTM Coordinator
I think you mean bold faced lies, not bald faced.... but ok. Just like you said, your cls doesn't need modifications for street use but for racing yes it does. Just like your jeep doesn't need modifications unless your trying to traverse some mountainous terrain.
You proved my point.... thanks.
You proved my point.... thanks.
08-30-2010, 02:48 PM
#43
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I think you mean bold faced lies, not bald faced.... but ok. Just like you said, your cls doesn't need modifications for street use but for racing yes it does. Just like your jeep doesn't need modifications unless your trying to traverse some mountainous terrain.
You proved my point.... thanks.
You proved my point.... thanks.
Trying to re-phrase your own incongruent logic, misconstruing the truth with your own false perception of it, and circumventing the laws of physics between a man-made, paved road and an unpaved, treacherous natural landscape in order to attempt to prove a baseless point is not proving anything other than your inability to admit to your own faulty logic.
Street racing is not professional racing. Therefore, if a street legal vehicle serves the purpose of its owner without the need of bolt-on modifications, then end of story.
Don't tell a lie like street racers and off-roaders add modifications to their vehicles for the same reasons.
Adding a CAI for the purpose of increasing horsepower in the event of street racing is different from adding CAI in order to have a re-usable filter that doesn't need to be dumped after heavy duty mud-riding.
Adding a chip and exhaust for the purpose of increasing horsepower for the street racing is different from adding a chip and a high flow muffler to increase horsepower in order to compensate for tires with increased dimensions and to maintain if not increase the fuel mileage of a 4WD vehicle with larger tires.
08-30-2010, 02:54 PM
#44
Three Wheelin'
This is why I stated earlier that you were done.
You based your entire argument on this:
Both have enthusiasts that attempt to make their stock vehicles more capable for the terrain.
You're making yourself look even more desperate to save face than before you decided to begin your crusade to somehow find weaknesses in my argument.
There is no "terrain" or any "obstacles" for a street car to be more "capable" of driving over. The person in the car driving next to you is neither part of the "terrain" nor is he an "obstacle" to overcome. So, what are you trying to say? Are you trying to say that a street car would need low profile tires or a supercharger or a turbocharger or a stainless steel exhaust just to drive down a public road? What "obstacles" could you be referring to that would be on a highway? Potholes? Dips? Low shoulders on the side of the road maybe? Maybe road construction? Hills? None of what I have mentioned could be considered "obstacles" that would present any kind of adverse condition that any completely stock vehicle couldn't easily negotiate.
There is no street, road, highway, turnpike, bridge, interstate or back road in North America that an average vehicle like a Volkswagen Beetle or a Ford Fiesta couldn't traverse without difficulty. I could buy a Toyota Prius and drive from here to Alaska with little or no difficulty. However, if you take a Toyota Prius and try to drive through the Moab trails in Utah you're not going to make it.
As far as my Jeep is concerned the reason why I didn't purchase a Rubicon is because (A) the only ones I could find were in neighboring states that I wasn't about to drive nearly a half a day or longer just to reach one. (B) Many of the Rubicons I came across were pre JK models that didn't have the accessories I was looking for. (C) I don't consider the Rubicon's ability to lock both the front and rear differentials to be such a significant off-road advantage that I would purchase an older Rubicon just to say I have one. I did find one Rubicon in the area where I live that was a JK model but it had those horrendous black plastic fenders and base model steel wheels.
The only difference between a Rubicon and a Sahara is a transfer case that locks both the front and rear differentials and a Dana 44 rear end, and slightly heavier duty suspension. Having had the choice between a Sahara with every option and a partially stripped Rubicon I chose the Sahara. Even with a more heavy duty front and rear axles a Rubicon can get stuck just like a Sahara if you think you can hit aggressive terrain with stock tires.
You based your entire argument on this:
Both have enthusiasts that attempt to make their stock vehicles more capable for the terrain.
You're making yourself look even more desperate to save face than before you decided to begin your crusade to somehow find weaknesses in my argument.
There is no "terrain" or any "obstacles" for a street car to be more "capable" of driving over. The person in the car driving next to you is neither part of the "terrain" nor is he an "obstacle" to overcome. So, what are you trying to say? Are you trying to say that a street car would need low profile tires or a supercharger or a turbocharger or a stainless steel exhaust just to drive down a public road? What "obstacles" could you be referring to that would be on a highway? Potholes? Dips? Low shoulders on the side of the road maybe? Maybe road construction? Hills? None of what I have mentioned could be considered "obstacles" that would present any kind of adverse condition that any completely stock vehicle couldn't easily negotiate.
There is no street, road, highway, turnpike, bridge, interstate or back road in North America that an average vehicle like a Volkswagen Beetle or a Ford Fiesta couldn't traverse without difficulty. I could buy a Toyota Prius and drive from here to Alaska with little or no difficulty. However, if you take a Toyota Prius and try to drive through the Moab trails in Utah you're not going to make it.
As far as my Jeep is concerned the reason why I didn't purchase a Rubicon is because (A) the only ones I could find were in neighboring states that I wasn't about to drive nearly a half a day or longer just to reach one. (B) Many of the Rubicons I came across were pre JK models that didn't have the accessories I was looking for. (C) I don't consider the Rubicon's ability to lock both the front and rear differentials to be such a significant off-road advantage that I would purchase an older Rubicon just to say I have one. I did find one Rubicon in the area where I live that was a JK model but it had those horrendous black plastic fenders and base model steel wheels.
The only difference between a Rubicon and a Sahara is a transfer case that locks both the front and rear differentials and a Dana 44 rear end, and slightly heavier duty suspension. Having had the choice between a Sahara with every option and a partially stripped Rubicon I chose the Sahara. Even with a more heavy duty front and rear axles a Rubicon can get stuck just like a Sahara if you think you can hit aggressive terrain with stock tires.
Wrong!
Are you new at this whole Off-roading thing, cause if so then I understand.
Anyways here we go. First off the Transfer case has nothing to do with locking the axles. The Lockers in each diff do that. On the Rubicon it has E-lockers (aka Electronic controled lockers). The Rubicon also has Dana 44's FRONT and REAR. Does your Sahara? Does your Sahara have the electric dissconect for the sway bar? Does you Sahara have the heavy duty NVG241OR transfer case? All these make the Rubicon far FAR better than a Sahara off road. I don't know how you can see it any other way. There is no way a Sahara will go anywhere a Rubicon can.
So your statment that the Sahara is the same except the rear diff is false.
I think your Sahara uses either a a 8 1/4 rear or a Dana 35, and the front I think is a Dana 30. (not 100% on that) wich means even if you go to a 33 inch tire you will be breaking axles shafts left and right, especially if you lock it up.
And you statment about being able to lock up diffs not being an advantage in off roading, well all I can say is WOW! Your idea of off-roading must be dirt roads. Certanly not the boulders you were talking about earlier.
08-30-2010, 03:06 PM
#45
Whats up with RDX owners?
iTrader: (9)
This thread is still going?
08-30-2010, 03:08 PM
#46
Three Wheelin'
I'll just say this and it will be the end of my 2 cents.
The Sahara is not in the same league as the Rubicon. Compleatly different. They were not intended for the same thing when they were made. The Rubicon is far superior in offroading. Hands down. The Rubicon is made for the off road enthusiast and the Sahara is a grocery getter for the wanna be offroad enthusiast that everyone laughs at when they get stuck and have to have an old YJ, or MJ pull it out because the guy withe no lockers and factory street tires thinks his Sahara is as good as a Rubicon.
The Sahara is not in the same league as the Rubicon. Compleatly different. They were not intended for the same thing when they were made. The Rubicon is far superior in offroading. Hands down. The Rubicon is made for the off road enthusiast and the Sahara is a grocery getter for the wanna be offroad enthusiast that everyone laughs at when they get stuck and have to have an old YJ, or MJ pull it out because the guy withe no lockers and factory street tires thinks his Sahara is as good as a Rubicon.
08-30-2010, 04:42 PM
#47
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The reason why I know is because your only contribution to the Jeep topic is what you said in detail is what I already summed up in my previous post: With the Rubicon all 4 wheels turn at the same time.
First you say the Rubicon is far better, then you come back hours later with your little stats on the Rubicon. If you knew what you were talking about you would have stated what you knew in the beginning. Don't come lollygaging up in here after the fact because you decided to do some web searching to figure out how to explain in detail what I already said in layman's terms.
It's quite common if the topic is Jeeps that if I say the rear end has a Dana 44, then the front has a Dana. :whim:
Sometimes, as the saying goes, a picture is worth a thousand words:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWtfgooQ1oU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYKvo...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAfYq...eature=related
08-30-2010, 05:20 PM
#48
COTM Coordinator
An your videos prove what exactly????
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbnAi5zpwc0
Here is some candy for you.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbnAi5zpwc0
Here is some candy for you.
08-30-2010, 05:56 PM
#49
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murkyriverstl, your involvement in this thread is pointless. I didn't even bother to watch your video because I don't give a damn what your thoughts are on off-road or street vehicles. Your argument is baseless.
You ignore the fact that you tried to convince yourself that off-roading is the same as daily driving on the street.
How did you convince yourself that the conditions on a paved road, a damn highway for that matter, was similar, equivalent, or anything remotely like driving across a creek bed or climbing steep, rocky hills or pounding through a water hole or mud riding?
seaknight: before you decide to chime back in with some Jeep stats that you had to look up in order to even involve yourself in the Jeep convo don't bother with trying to continue your baseless argument. You obviously don't own a Jeep JK, Rubicon or Sahara, so stop being a envious wannabe on the outside looking in.
You ignore the fact that you tried to convince yourself that off-roading is the same as daily driving on the street.
How did you convince yourself that the conditions on a paved road, a damn highway for that matter, was similar, equivalent, or anything remotely like driving across a creek bed or climbing steep, rocky hills or pounding through a water hole or mud riding?
seaknight: before you decide to chime back in with some Jeep stats that you had to look up in order to even involve yourself in the Jeep convo don't bother with trying to continue your baseless argument. You obviously don't own a Jeep JK, Rubicon or Sahara, so stop being a envious wannabe on the outside looking in.
Last edited by Sideswipe; 08-30-2010 at 06:00 PM.
08-30-2010, 05:57 PM
#50
Subscibed.... as soon as I read the thread title I knew it was going to be good.
and
@ slamming the gears in an automatic
and
@ slamming the gears in an automatic
08-30-2010, 06:19 PM
#51
COTM Coordinator
murkyriverstl, your involvement in this thread is pointless. I didn't even bother to watch your video because I don't give a damn what your thoughts are on off-road or street vehicles. Your argument is baseless.
You ignore the fact that you tried to convince yourself that off-roading is the same as daily driving on the street.
How did you convince yourself that the conditions on a paved road, a damn highway for that matter, was similar, equivalent, or anything remotely like driving across a creek bed or climbing steep, rocky hills or pounding through a water hole or mud riding?
seaknight: before you decide to chime back in with some Jeep stats that you had to look up in order to even involve yourself in the Jeep convo don't bother with trying to continue your baseless argument. You obviously don't own a Jeep JK, Rubicon or Sahara, so stop being a envious wannabe on the outside looking in.
You ignore the fact that you tried to convince yourself that off-roading is the same as daily driving on the street.
How did you convince yourself that the conditions on a paved road, a damn highway for that matter, was similar, equivalent, or anything remotely like driving across a creek bed or climbing steep, rocky hills or pounding through a water hole or mud riding?
seaknight: before you decide to chime back in with some Jeep stats that you had to look up in order to even involve yourself in the Jeep convo don't bother with trying to continue your baseless argument. You obviously don't own a Jeep JK, Rubicon or Sahara, so stop being a envious wannabe on the outside looking in.
Your only proof that its different is your opinion and you cant for one second try to understand that although they are different kinds of sports, the people participating in the sports are trying to achieve a similar goal. Which is to improve the stock vehicle to handle their sport in a better fashion. If you cant understand that, then you are beyond simple comprehension. In which my point still stands that its like trying to teach a child to read, but I should rephrase that, its now like trying to teach a blind a deaf child how to read.
And just because you own a Sahara and most people on here could care less about jeeps doesn't mean that someone cannot look up the facts to prove how wrong you are. And apparently you are very wrong and own a sub par jeep. Yes, you have to modify your jeep to achieve your rock climbing goals....er.... water/mud holes, cracks and crevices, and whatever else you claim to do with your desert jeep. Bottom line is you are modifying your jeep which contradicts your statement of modifying period. Also, you said that the CL could benefit from performance tires, well guess what..... that's a modification.
But yeah, I have no argument, you're right and everyone is wrong because your a 40 year old child that cant handle the truth. Just cause Mommy never corrected you doesn't mean that you were never wrong.
08-30-2010, 06:35 PM
#52
Three Wheelin'
Tell the truth, seaknight. You just looked up the info you posted. Don't lie.
The reason why I know is because your only contribution to the Jeep topic is what you said in detail is what I already summed up in my previous post: With the Rubicon all 4 wheels turn at the same time.
First you say the Rubicon is far better, then you come back hours later with your little stats on the Rubicon. If you knew what you were talking about you would have stated what you knew in the beginning. Don't come lollygaging up in here after the fact because you decided to do some web searching to figure out how to explain in detail what I already said in layman's terms.
It's quite common if the topic is Jeeps that if I say the rear end has a Dana 44, then the front has a Dana. :whim:
Sometimes, as the saying goes, a picture is worth a thousand words:
The reason why I know is because your only contribution to the Jeep topic is what you said in detail is what I already summed up in my previous post: With the Rubicon all 4 wheels turn at the same time.
First you say the Rubicon is far better, then you come back hours later with your little stats on the Rubicon. If you knew what you were talking about you would have stated what you knew in the beginning. Don't come lollygaging up in here after the fact because you decided to do some web searching to figure out how to explain in detail what I already said in layman's terms.
It's quite common if the topic is Jeeps that if I say the rear end has a Dana 44, then the front has a Dana. :whim:
Sometimes, as the saying goes, a picture is worth a thousand words:
Even if I did look up specs it shows how easy it was to prove you wrong. Besides the only thing I had to look up was the transfer case number.
Bottom line is YOU ARE WRONG to say that (as you said) "The only difference between a Rubicon and a Sahara is a transfer case that locks both the front and rear differentials and a Dana 44 rear end, and slightly heavier duty suspension.
I proved you statment incorect just by posting facts, SO WHO IS THE LIAR?
Totally incorrect. Not only was it wrong but your talk of how the transfer case locks the front and read diffs is wrong also. Just buy that and the fact you said "I don't consider the Rubicon's ability to lock both the front and rear differentials to be such a significant off-road advantage Tells me you are a grocery getter with 4 wheel drive.
Not a hard core off roader as you descibed with 10 foot deep trenches, and bolders the size of cars with maybe 5 to 10 feet in between. I've built many jeeps and know much about off roading. Maybe I'll show you some of what I've done with them when I get home. I promise it is far FAR more then you are willing to do with your Sahara.
Carefull Sideswipe, I think this trail has a few small branches you don't want to rub against!
Last edited by CH46ESeaKnight; 08-30-2010 at 06:38 PM.
08-30-2010, 09:28 PM
#53
Three Wheelin'
Ok so I just now got to watch your videos. I should thank you because the first video said exactly what I said about the Rubicon being the most capable Jeep made. Funny they did not mention the Sahara. (What was your point there?).
And Wow the 2nd Video, shit that was some serious off roading. Just not early as mean as you described in you other post. 3 foot deep mud hole, rocky, treacherous hills with an 80 degree or steeper angle or crawl over 3 ton boulders with gaps between them ranging anywhere from 5 feet to 10 feet deep. 80 Degree slopes? RIIIIGHT!
The third video, well I'll just say my 2WD Tacoma can do that. Including my wifes Pacifica.
Great videos!
And Wow the 2nd Video, shit that was some serious off roading. Just not early as mean as you described in you other post. 3 foot deep mud hole, rocky, treacherous hills with an 80 degree or steeper angle or crawl over 3 ton boulders with gaps between them ranging anywhere from 5 feet to 10 feet deep. 80 Degree slopes? RIIIIGHT!
The third video, well I'll just say my 2WD Tacoma can do that. Including my wifes Pacifica.
Great videos!
Last edited by CH46ESeaKnight; 08-30-2010 at 09:30 PM.
08-30-2010, 09:59 PM
#55
Three Wheelin'
I'm racing back home to pick up some paperwork I left on my desk. I'm running a good 100 to 110mph--nothing fancy. All of a sudden I hear a loud, crackling thunder of a V8. I'm looking in my rearview trying to find the source of the thunder when not even 5 second later a jet black Vette thunders right past me. I could easily tell from the sound and the four oversized chrome pipes jutting out the back of the car like four 50mm cannons on an old battle ship that the dude meant business. 3 seconds later a charcoal grey Nissan Armada floats by trying to keep up with the Vette. Aaaaaahhhh hell yes I had to take a piece of that action!!
Gate shifted down to 3rd, caught two little jerks from the rev limiter and slammed it up to 4th. I passed the Armada and gained on the Vette. There were too many twists and turns and traffic on the section of highway we were traveling through, so the dude in the Vette couldn't open it up all the way otherwise he would have disappeared into the horizon. The Vette zigs left and I zag right. He ended up getting caught up in traffic while I had an empty lane. Just as the Vette zags right to catch up to me I zig left across three lanes to the next stretch of empty lane.
By the time the Vette makes it to the right lane where I was he realizes why I left that lane. He got caught behind two slow 18 wheelers and a Roto-Rooter truck. Meanwhile the Armada is almost too far behind to see. Just as I'm nearing my exit the Vette cuts me off and beats me to the exit. At the rate of speed he was coming there was no way I was going to jump in front of him. Besides, at the end of the exit ramp is a nearly 180 degree right turn through a traffic light.
One thing I'm DAMN good at is taking hard turns like Emerson Fittipaldi. As we're coming to the turn the dude in the Vette shuts down--he's afraid to take the turn!! I slip past him and take the turn. I gate shifted down to first and squirted through the turn, two car lengths ahead of the Vette by the exit of the turn.
Here comes the Armada. We're at the next stop light. We're still rolling as the light turns green. I'm still in 1st and jam it up to 2nd. The dude never had a chance. I was already hard under power as he was trying to slow down. I was already several car lengths ahead by the time he decided to get on it. We come to another hard turn and that was it for the 3 ton monster.
Gate shifted down to 3rd, caught two little jerks from the rev limiter and slammed it up to 4th. I passed the Armada and gained on the Vette. There were too many twists and turns and traffic on the section of highway we were traveling through, so the dude in the Vette couldn't open it up all the way otherwise he would have disappeared into the horizon. The Vette zigs left and I zag right. He ended up getting caught up in traffic while I had an empty lane. Just as the Vette zags right to catch up to me I zig left across three lanes to the next stretch of empty lane.
By the time the Vette makes it to the right lane where I was he realizes why I left that lane. He got caught behind two slow 18 wheelers and a Roto-Rooter truck. Meanwhile the Armada is almost too far behind to see. Just as I'm nearing my exit the Vette cuts me off and beats me to the exit. At the rate of speed he was coming there was no way I was going to jump in front of him. Besides, at the end of the exit ramp is a nearly 180 degree right turn through a traffic light.
One thing I'm DAMN good at is taking hard turns like Emerson Fittipaldi. As we're coming to the turn the dude in the Vette shuts down--he's afraid to take the turn!! I slip past him and take the turn. I gate shifted down to first and squirted through the turn, two car lengths ahead of the Vette by the exit of the turn.
Here comes the Armada. We're at the next stop light. We're still rolling as the light turns green. I'm still in 1st and jam it up to 2nd. The dude never had a chance. I was already hard under power as he was trying to slow down. I was already several car lengths ahead by the time he decided to get on it. We come to another hard turn and that was it for the 3 ton monster.
08-30-2010, 10:28 PM
#56
Three Wheelin'
Sideswipe you should contact a Mod, and let them know your thread has gone off topic and you would like it closed. That way you can "save face" or what ever that expression is. That way you don't have to admit your comments about your Sahara and the Rubicon were wrong. Since you can't seem to do that.
08-30-2010, 10:57 PM
#57
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Even after hours of researching, having the information in hand you still don't know what the hell you're talking about. Just how was it so easy to figure out that you regurgitated, copied and pasted specs like a Rubicon having a "heavy duty NVG241OR transfer case"? Because all you know is it's "heavy duty" but you couldn't explain just WHAT made the Rubicon drive system "heavy duty". I even gave you an opening to explain beyond "all four wheels spinning at the same time" but you sat there being joyous over copied and pasted specs.
Don't bother trying to chime in with more copied and pasted specs. You also don't know a damn thing even about wheel and tire size. I don't give a damn about 33s, 34s or anything higher when I can easily fit 32s on a stock 18 inch wheel. Even if I stayed with 255 65r 18 inch tires I'd still be running larger wheels and tires than what came on previous stock Jeeps.
It's not about money it's about what I WANT. It's not worth it to drive hundreds of miles just to look for a Rubicon with everything I want or just settle for an older YJ Rubicon or even a newer 09' Rubicon if it's partially stripped just to say I have a Rubicon with HEAVY DUTY DANA 44s, and a HEAVY DUTY TRANSFER CASE when I can have a fully equipped Sahara with a universal hard top, full painted fenders, power door locks, windows. Not cheap black fenders and cheap 15 or 16 inch base model wheels, and a noisy soft top.
You can make any kind of ignorant comment you please--How childish is it for a guy that's never had a Jeep, never even driven a Jeep, had to research about a Jeep, and still couldn't fully explain what he learned? Trying to argue about a vehicle you've never owned let alone driven with someone who owns and knows about the vehicle he owns is ignorant and foolish. But like I said before, if you're willing to continue to rant about a vehicle you know nothing about, had no experience in owning or even driving by all means continue making your comments until the thread is closed.
Last edited by Sideswipe; 08-30-2010 at 10:59 PM.
08-30-2010, 11:21 PM
#58
Three Wheelin'
SEE you still cant admit you are wrong about your Sahara being the same as a Rubicon. You made a false statment. Thats what I'm calling you out on.
What false information have I provided, please show me in a quote where I have said something incorrect.
By the way I've owned 4 Jeeps in the past 7 years. All more capable then a stock Rubicon.
So can you admit that you were wrong to say the "The only difference between a Rubicon and a Sahara is a transfer case that locks both the front and rear differentials and a Dana 44 rear end, and slightly heavier duty suspension"
My comments are not ignorant because I know jeeps. Ignorant is someone who owns a Jeep and makes false claims as to thier Jeeps superiority.
Clown!
No I'm not calling you a clown because name calling is not permitted, I'm just saying CLOWN!
Why don't you go practice your F1 Gate shifting skills!
What false information have I provided, please show me in a quote where I have said something incorrect.
By the way I've owned 4 Jeeps in the past 7 years. All more capable then a stock Rubicon.
So can you admit that you were wrong to say the "The only difference between a Rubicon and a Sahara is a transfer case that locks both the front and rear differentials and a Dana 44 rear end, and slightly heavier duty suspension"
My comments are not ignorant because I know jeeps. Ignorant is someone who owns a Jeep and makes false claims as to thier Jeeps superiority.
Clown!
No I'm not calling you a clown because name calling is not permitted, I'm just saying CLOWN!
Why don't you go practice your F1 Gate shifting skills!
Last edited by CH46ESeaKnight; 08-30-2010 at 11:25 PM.
08-30-2010, 11:24 PM
#59
Three Wheelin'
Thanks for proving my point.
Even after hours of researching, having the information in hand you still don't know what the hell you're talking about. Just how was it so easy to figure out that you regurgitated, copied and pasted specs like a Rubicon having a "heavy duty NVG241OR transfer case"? Because all you know is it's "heavy duty" but you couldn't explain just WHAT made the Rubicon drive system "heavy duty". I even gave you an opening to explain beyond "all four wheels spinning at the same time" but you sat there being joyous over copied and pasted specs.
Don't bother trying to chime in with more copied and pasted specs. You also don't know a damn thing even about wheel and tire size. I don't give a damn about 33s, 34s or anything higher when I can easily fit 32s on a stock 18 inch wheel. Even if I stayed with 255 65r 18 inch tires I'd still be running larger wheels and tires than what came on previous stock Jeeps.
It's not about money it's about what I WANT. It's not worth it to drive hundreds of miles just to look for a Rubicon with everything I want or just settle for an older YJ Rubicon or even a newer 09' Rubicon if it's partially stripped just to say I have a Rubicon with HEAVY DUTY DANA 44s, and a HEAVY DUTY TRANSFER CASE when I can have a fully equipped Sahara with a universal hard top, full painted fenders, power door locks, windows. Not cheap black fenders and cheap 15 or 16 inch base model wheels, and a noisy soft top.
You can make any kind of ignorant comment you please--How childish is it for a guy that's never had a Jeep, never even driven a Jeep, had to research about a Jeep, and still couldn't fully explain what he learned? Trying to argue about a vehicle you've never owned let alone driven with someone who owns and knows about the vehicle he owns is ignorant and foolish. But like I said before, if you're willing to continue to rant about a vehicle you know nothing about, had no experience in owning or even driving by all means continue making your comments until the thread is closed.
Even after hours of researching, having the information in hand you still don't know what the hell you're talking about. Just how was it so easy to figure out that you regurgitated, copied and pasted specs like a Rubicon having a "heavy duty NVG241OR transfer case"? Because all you know is it's "heavy duty" but you couldn't explain just WHAT made the Rubicon drive system "heavy duty". I even gave you an opening to explain beyond "all four wheels spinning at the same time" but you sat there being joyous over copied and pasted specs.
Don't bother trying to chime in with more copied and pasted specs. You also don't know a damn thing even about wheel and tire size. I don't give a damn about 33s, 34s or anything higher when I can easily fit 32s on a stock 18 inch wheel. Even if I stayed with 255 65r 18 inch tires I'd still be running larger wheels and tires than what came on previous stock Jeeps.
It's not about money it's about what I WANT. It's not worth it to drive hundreds of miles just to look for a Rubicon with everything I want or just settle for an older YJ Rubicon or even a newer 09' Rubicon if it's partially stripped just to say I have a Rubicon with HEAVY DUTY DANA 44s, and a HEAVY DUTY TRANSFER CASE when I can have a fully equipped Sahara with a universal hard top, full painted fenders, power door locks, windows. Not cheap black fenders and cheap 15 or 16 inch base model wheels, and a noisy soft top.
You can make any kind of ignorant comment you please--How childish is it for a guy that's never had a Jeep, never even driven a Jeep, had to research about a Jeep, and still couldn't fully explain what he learned? Trying to argue about a vehicle you've never owned let alone driven with someone who owns and knows about the vehicle he owns is ignorant and foolish. But like I said before, if you're willing to continue to rant about a vehicle you know nothing about, had no experience in owning or even driving by all means continue making your comments until the thread is closed.
""""""""I've built many jeeps and know much about off roading. Maybe I'll show you some of what I've done with them when I get home. I promise it is far FAR more then you are willing to do with your Sahara.""""""""
Did you not read that part?
You made a assumption, you know what that makes you?
08-30-2010, 11:26 PM
#60
TQ > MPG
I thought asswipe, errr I mean sideswipe was entertaining back on page one.
This sh*t has gotten epic.
And btw, noone cares about your Jeep. I mean hell, you can't even gate-shift it like Schumacher.
This sh*t has gotten epic.
And btw, noone cares about your Jeep. I mean hell, you can't even gate-shift it like Schumacher.
08-30-2010, 11:46 PM
#61
COTM Coordinator
Its fairly obvious that sideswipe does not read the entire posts made by anyone other than him, or if he does read it he replies to only things he thinks he can defend. Another characteristic of a child.
Im still waiting for the reply to my post. Ill be back on at 6am looking forward to it lol.
Im still waiting for the reply to my post. Ill be back on at 6am looking forward to it lol.
08-30-2010, 11:56 PM
#62
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How do you figure I've never owned a Jeep, I just wrote in the thread that i
""""""""I've built many jeeps and know much about off roading. Maybe I'll show you some of what I've done with them when I get home. I promise it is far FAR more then you are willing to do with your Sahara.""""""""
Did you not read that part?
You made a assumption, you know what that makes you?
""""""""I've built many jeeps and know much about off roading. Maybe I'll show you some of what I've done with them when I get home. I promise it is far FAR more then you are willing to do with your Sahara.""""""""
Did you not read that part?
You made a assumption, you know what that makes you?
Did YOU not read that part?
Yes, yes. We all know you're telling the truth about building Jeeps. That's why it took you several hours to research what you knew about a Rubicon and still couldn't explain what "heavy duty" meant.
Brawny paper towels are "heavy duty" too.
You're so deep into this thread you make up statements that don't even exist:
You say you "know about Jeeps" but it took you several hours to come back with an incomplete explanation of specs for a Rubicon (which I'm STILL waiting for you to explain) that you seemed to neglect to mention in your first comments about Jeeps--but you "know about Jeeps".
You sit there basing your entire argument on specs you copied and pasted and YOU can't even explain the difference between a Rubicon and Sahara.
The "heavy duty" transfer case and Dana 44s are common knowledge that anyone can look up but I'm still waiting for you to explain what is so different about the Rubicon and the Sahara. The complete specs in reference to both Jeeps hasn't been explained by you--I brought it up to you before but you're still thinking you "know about Jeeps".
Yes, we know. You built 4 Jeeps. Yes I know. You know everything about Jeeps. But you can't explain what is so "heavy duty" about a Rubicon and you still haven't explained the differences in a Sahara and a Rubicon. Keep it coming. I got plenty of time.
08-31-2010, 12:03 AM
#63
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Its fairly obvious that sideswipe does not read the entire posts made by anyone other than him, or if he does read it he replies to only things he thinks he can defend. Another characteristic of a child.
Im still waiting for the reply to my post. Ill be back on at 6am looking forward to it lol.
Im still waiting for the reply to my post. Ill be back on at 6am looking forward to it lol.
I stopped paying attention to your comments after you made the pathetic attempt to equate driving on exit ramps, entrance ramps, bridges, and highways with driving off-road through creek beds, steep, rocky hills, and mud holes.
Oooh street cars need CAI, turbo, stainless steel, cat back exhaust, and headers to maneuver around "obstacles" like other cars and "terrain" like potholes, entrance ramps, exit ramps and road construction. The hell outta here with that foolishness.
Keep it coming.
Last edited by Sideswipe; 08-31-2010 at 12:08 AM.
08-31-2010, 12:13 AM
#64
Three Wheelin'
This is why I stated earlier that you were done.
You based your entire argument on this:
Both have enthusiasts that attempt to make their stock vehicles more capable for the terrain.
You're making yourself look even more desperate to save face than before you decided to begin your crusade to somehow find weaknesses in my argument.
There is no "terrain" or any "obstacles" for a street car to be more "capable" of driving over. The person in the car driving next to you is neither part of the "terrain" nor is he an "obstacle" to overcome. So, what are you trying to say? Are you trying to say that a street car would need low profile tires or a supercharger or a turbocharger or a stainless steel exhaust just to drive down a public road? What "obstacles" could you be referring to that would be on a highway? Potholes? Dips? Low shoulders on the side of the road maybe? Maybe road construction? Hills? None of what I have mentioned could be considered "obstacles" that would present any kind of adverse condition that any completely stock vehicle couldn't easily negotiate.
There is no street, road, highway, turnpike, bridge, interstate or back road in North America that an average vehicle like a Volkswagen Beetle or a Ford Fiesta couldn't traverse without difficulty. I could buy a Toyota Prius and drive from here to Alaska with little or no difficulty. However, if you take a Toyota Prius and try to drive through the Moab trails in Utah you're not going to make it.
As far as my Jeep is concerned the reason why I didn't purchase a Rubicon is because (A) the only ones I could find were in neighboring states that I wasn't about to drive nearly a half a day or longer just to reach one. (B) Many of the Rubicons I came across were pre JK models that didn't have the accessories I was looking for. (C) I don't consider the Rubicon's ability to lock both the front and rear differentials to be such a significant off-road advantage that I would purchase an older Rubicon just to say I have one. I did find one Rubicon in the area where I live that was a JK model but it had those horrendous black plastic fenders and base model steel wheels.
The only difference between a Rubicon and a Sahara is a transfer case that locks both the front and rear differentials and a Dana 44 rear end, and slightly heavier duty suspension. Having had the choice between a Sahara with every option and a partially stripped Rubicon I chose the Sahara. Even with a more heavy duty front and rear axles a Rubicon can get stuck just like a Sahara if you think you can hit aggressive terrain with stock tires.
You based your entire argument on this:
Both have enthusiasts that attempt to make their stock vehicles more capable for the terrain.
You're making yourself look even more desperate to save face than before you decided to begin your crusade to somehow find weaknesses in my argument.
There is no "terrain" or any "obstacles" for a street car to be more "capable" of driving over. The person in the car driving next to you is neither part of the "terrain" nor is he an "obstacle" to overcome. So, what are you trying to say? Are you trying to say that a street car would need low profile tires or a supercharger or a turbocharger or a stainless steel exhaust just to drive down a public road? What "obstacles" could you be referring to that would be on a highway? Potholes? Dips? Low shoulders on the side of the road maybe? Maybe road construction? Hills? None of what I have mentioned could be considered "obstacles" that would present any kind of adverse condition that any completely stock vehicle couldn't easily negotiate.
There is no street, road, highway, turnpike, bridge, interstate or back road in North America that an average vehicle like a Volkswagen Beetle or a Ford Fiesta couldn't traverse without difficulty. I could buy a Toyota Prius and drive from here to Alaska with little or no difficulty. However, if you take a Toyota Prius and try to drive through the Moab trails in Utah you're not going to make it.
As far as my Jeep is concerned the reason why I didn't purchase a Rubicon is because (A) the only ones I could find were in neighboring states that I wasn't about to drive nearly a half a day or longer just to reach one. (B) Many of the Rubicons I came across were pre JK models that didn't have the accessories I was looking for. (C) I don't consider the Rubicon's ability to lock both the front and rear differentials to be such a significant off-road advantage that I would purchase an older Rubicon just to say I have one. I did find one Rubicon in the area where I live that was a JK model but it had those horrendous black plastic fenders and base model steel wheels.
The only difference between a Rubicon and a Sahara is a transfer case that locks both the front and rear differentials and a Dana 44 rear end, and slightly heavier duty suspension. Having had the choice between a Sahara with every option and a partially stripped Rubicon I chose the Sahara. Even with a more heavy duty front and rear axles a Rubicon can get stuck just like a Sahara if you think you can hit aggressive terrain with stock tires.
Now can you say that that is a correct statment?
YES or NO.
I understand the Sahara was right for you over the Rubicon, and that fine, I get that, but you make said the Sahara is the envy of all jeep owners and the most capable Jeep made. Thats my argument.
Go ahead twist it soem more.
I have some videos on Youtube of one of my Jeeps a MJ going over a rock as big as my truck. There are 3 videos cause the camera only did 30 seconds at a time. Here is a link to the first one. And Guess what kind of Jeep is sitting on the side lines! I dont have many videos but just to show You have have my Jeep time in. Changed plenty of axles on the trail.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJNKyvkaxTo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQsII2dk1xw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_TSgGrtN-0
Last edited by CH46ESeaKnight; 08-31-2010 at 12:24 AM.
08-31-2010, 12:14 AM
#65
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08-31-2010, 12:16 AM
#67
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I gave you my reason why I chose a Sahara over a Rubicon.
Did YOU not read that part?
Yes, yes. We all know you're telling the truth about building Jeeps. That's why it took you several hours to research what you knew about a Rubicon and still couldn't explain what "heavy duty" meant.
Brawny paper towels are "heavy duty" too.
You're so deep into this thread you make up statements that don't even exist:
This is a damn lie. Copy and paste the statement where I said a Sahara is the same as a Rubicon.
You say you "know about Jeeps" but it took you several hours to come back with an incomplete explanation of specs for a Rubicon (which I'm STILL waiting for you to explain) that you seemed to neglect to mention in your first comments about Jeeps--but you "know about Jeeps".
You sit there basing your entire argument on specs you copied and pasted and YOU can't even explain the difference between a Rubicon and Sahara.
The "heavy duty" transfer case and Dana 44s are common knowledge that anyone can look up but I'm still waiting for you to explain what is so different about the Rubicon and the Sahara. The complete specs in reference to both Jeeps hasn't been explained by you--I brought it up to you before but you're still thinking you "know about Jeeps".
Yes, we know. You built 4 Jeeps. Yes I know. You know everything about Jeeps. But you can't explain what is so "heavy duty" about a Rubicon and you still haven't explained the differences in a Sahara and a Rubicon. Keep it coming. I got plenty of time.
Did YOU not read that part?
Yes, yes. We all know you're telling the truth about building Jeeps. That's why it took you several hours to research what you knew about a Rubicon and still couldn't explain what "heavy duty" meant.
Brawny paper towels are "heavy duty" too.
You're so deep into this thread you make up statements that don't even exist:
This is a damn lie. Copy and paste the statement where I said a Sahara is the same as a Rubicon.
You say you "know about Jeeps" but it took you several hours to come back with an incomplete explanation of specs for a Rubicon (which I'm STILL waiting for you to explain) that you seemed to neglect to mention in your first comments about Jeeps--but you "know about Jeeps".
You sit there basing your entire argument on specs you copied and pasted and YOU can't even explain the difference between a Rubicon and Sahara.
The "heavy duty" transfer case and Dana 44s are common knowledge that anyone can look up but I'm still waiting for you to explain what is so different about the Rubicon and the Sahara. The complete specs in reference to both Jeeps hasn't been explained by you--I brought it up to you before but you're still thinking you "know about Jeeps".
Yes, we know. You built 4 Jeeps. Yes I know. You know everything about Jeeps. But you can't explain what is so "heavy duty" about a Rubicon and you still haven't explained the differences in a Sahara and a Rubicon. Keep it coming. I got plenty of time.
08-31-2010, 12:18 AM
#68
COTM Coordinator
You are so right, particularly, in reference to your comments.
I stopped paying attention to your comments after you made the pathetic attempt to equate driving on exit ramps, entrance ramps, bridges, and highways with driving off-road through creek beds, steep, rocky hills, and mud holes.
Oooh street cars need CAI, turbo, stainless steel, cat back exhaust, and headers to maneuver around "obstacles" like other cars and "terrain" like potholes, entrance ramps, exit ramps and road construction. The hell outta here with that foolishness.
Keep it coming.
I stopped paying attention to your comments after you made the pathetic attempt to equate driving on exit ramps, entrance ramps, bridges, and highways with driving off-road through creek beds, steep, rocky hills, and mud holes.
Oooh street cars need CAI, turbo, stainless steel, cat back exhaust, and headers to maneuver around "obstacles" like other cars and "terrain" like potholes, entrance ramps, exit ramps and road construction. The hell outta here with that foolishness.
Keep it coming.
08-31-2010, 12:20 AM
#69
Three Wheelin'
OOPs put the sam video twice, let me get the one where I finish the rock. give me a min
Fixed
Now before you get your panties in a ruffle Swipe, I'm not comparing my jeep to your Sahara, You Sahara is a much nicer jeep. I put this jeep together to have fun, thats all it was for.
I only posted cause you are calling me out claiming I've never owned Jeeps.
Fixed
Now before you get your panties in a ruffle Swipe, I'm not comparing my jeep to your Sahara, You Sahara is a much nicer jeep. I put this jeep together to have fun, thats all it was for.
I only posted cause you are calling me out claiming I've never owned Jeeps.
Last edited by CH46ESeaKnight; 08-31-2010 at 12:34 AM.
08-31-2010, 12:25 AM
#70
COTM Coordinator
Yeah, funny how the first Jeep they pictured in the video was that silver Sahara plowing through the creek bed while they featured the Rubicon creeping over a few small stones. Not a fair representation at all considering the Sahara has no off-road capabilities compared to a Rubicon.
So your off roading consists of plowing through water at 5 miles an hour, sweet your the ultimate off roader
08-31-2010, 12:45 AM
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Well there you Swipe, there is you quote in the last paragraph. Anything eles I can hel you with? You said the "The only difference between a Rubicon and a Sahara is a transfer case that locks both the front and rear differentials and a Dana 44 rear end, and slightly heavier duty suspension. """ By the way Swipe the transfer case has nothing to do with locking the fron and rear axles.
Now can you say that that is a correct statment?
YES or NO.
Now can you say that that is a correct statment?
YES or NO.
But yes I know that's you.
I repeated myself several times because I waited for you to explain what was the key element that give the Rubicon the ability to handle more extreme terrain. You didn't say anything.
You couldn't bother to bring up something as simple as the Rubicon's 4:1 gear ratio--that's too much like being right.
You could regurgitate copied and pasted specs about the JK's 35 rear end but you didn't know anything about its Dana 30 front axle.
You fell all over yourself trying to tell me that a Rubicon has front and rear Dana 44s when that was already known.
You cried about the JK not being able to fit 35's when a JK (Sahara) comes with 18 inch wheels, larger than stock wheels that came on any previous model Jeep. 32's will do, thank you.
All that research you did and you couldn't even make the distinction that both the Sahara and the Rubicon have the same heavy duty suspension. I thought you would spot that but you didn't.
And I'll say it again...
There's nothing so appealing to me about a Rubicon that it's worth searching for weeks online and/or driving hundreds of miles just to find a Rubicon I want and end up with either a partially stripped down or an older Rubicon just to say I have one.
And yes, the Jeep Wrangler Sahara is the best all-around Jeep made--more capable than previous Jeep models right out of the box. The JK sits higher, is wider, has better interior, better...hell, lets just say better everything than previous model Jeeps. If YOU want a Rubicon knock yourself out if you can find a fully loaded one with a universal hard top, full-sized wheels, all the power and sound system options. I found exactly what I wanted right here in the city limits, and I didn't need to wait for weeks for a salesman to find one for me.
Last edited by Sideswipe; 08-31-2010 at 12:50 AM.
08-31-2010, 12:58 AM
#72
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08-31-2010, 01:01 AM
#73
Three Wheelin'
Sorry. All I saw was the initial stills of two videos of an old ass Jeep truck--nothing like a CJ-5, CJ-7, Renegade, Laredo, Wrangler or Rubicon.
But yes I know that's you.
I repeated myself several times because I waited for you to explain what was the key element that give the Rubicon the ability to handle more extreme terrain. You didn't say anything.
You couldn't bother to bring up something as simple as the Rubicon's 4:1 gear ratio--that's too much like being right.
You could regurgitate copied and pasted specs about the JK's 35 rear end but you didn't know anything about its Dana 30 front axle.
You fell all over yourself trying to tell me that a Rubicon has front and rear Dana 44s when that was already known.
You cried about the JK not being able to fit 35's when a JK (Sahara) comes with 18 inch wheels, larger than stock wheels that came on any previous model Jeep. 32's will do, thank you.
All that research you did and you couldn't even make the distinction that both the Sahara and the Rubicon have the same heavy duty suspension. I thought you would spot that but you didn't.
And I'll say it again...
There's nothing so appealing to me about a Rubicon that it's worth searching for weeks online and/or driving hundreds of miles just to find a Rubicon I want and end up with either a partially stripped down or an older Rubicon just to say I have one.
And yes, the Jeep Wrangler Sahara is the best all-around Jeep made--more capable than previous Jeep models right out of the box. The JK sits higher, is wider, has better interior, better...hell, lets just say better everything than previous model Jeeps. If YOU want a Rubicon knock yourself out if you can find a fully loaded one with a universal hard top, full-sized wheels, all the power and sound system options. I found exactly what I wanted right here in the city limits, and I didn't need to wait for weeks for a salesman to find one for me.
But yes I know that's you.
I repeated myself several times because I waited for you to explain what was the key element that give the Rubicon the ability to handle more extreme terrain. You didn't say anything.
You couldn't bother to bring up something as simple as the Rubicon's 4:1 gear ratio--that's too much like being right.
You could regurgitate copied and pasted specs about the JK's 35 rear end but you didn't know anything about its Dana 30 front axle.
You fell all over yourself trying to tell me that a Rubicon has front and rear Dana 44s when that was already known.
You cried about the JK not being able to fit 35's when a JK (Sahara) comes with 18 inch wheels, larger than stock wheels that came on any previous model Jeep. 32's will do, thank you.
All that research you did and you couldn't even make the distinction that both the Sahara and the Rubicon have the same heavy duty suspension. I thought you would spot that but you didn't.
And I'll say it again...
There's nothing so appealing to me about a Rubicon that it's worth searching for weeks online and/or driving hundreds of miles just to find a Rubicon I want and end up with either a partially stripped down or an older Rubicon just to say I have one.
And yes, the Jeep Wrangler Sahara is the best all-around Jeep made--more capable than previous Jeep models right out of the box. The JK sits higher, is wider, has better interior, better...hell, lets just say better everything than previous model Jeeps. If YOU want a Rubicon knock yourself out if you can find a fully loaded one with a universal hard top, full-sized wheels, all the power and sound system options. I found exactly what I wanted right here in the city limits, and I didn't need to wait for weeks for a salesman to find one for me.
Show me where I have made one false statment about the Rubicon. Everything I said is correct, And like I said the ONLY think I did not quite remember about the Rubicon specs was the model of the transfer case. Thats the only thing I had to look up dumbass.
Yes I know the transfer case is a 4 to 1 rock trac case. I just could not remember the NVG241.
I did not regurgitate anything about Dana 30's and Dana 35's. I know them like the back of my hand, I've changed more Dana 30 axles then Carter has liver pills.
AGAIN Swipe, show me one false claim or statment I have made, come on SHOW ME!
Answer this You said, (From your quote) """""The only difference between a Rubicon and a Sahara is a transfer case that locks both the front and rear differentials and a Dana 44 rear end, and slightly heavier duty suspension""""
IS THIS OR IS THIS NOT A FALSE STATMENT???? YES or NO?
08-31-2010, 01:03 AM
#74
I don't care what anyone has to say.... swerving through lanes of traffic on a public highway while racing someone is stupid. Been there, done that, can say that I did it to follow along with a friends several times, but I'm glad to say that I'll never do dumb crap like that ever again.
I could be Michael Schumacher and even then there's no guarantee that OTHER people won't get themselves hurt, or get in the way. It's a freeway, not a damn racetrack. It's made for people to travel long distances efficiently and quickly, not for someone like you, or that Corvette driver, or that Armada driver to make a fool out of themselves in front of everyone else on the road.
And you're talking about skill when it comes to gate shifting a bone-stock, automatic, FWD car? It was likely set up by engineers and the lawyers to be forgiving in terms of handling and its performance was quite impressive in its day but compared to everything else out there its nothing special at all.
Going back to what another poster mentioned about 2-wheels vs. 4-wheels, (in which you clearly didn't get the point) a lot of motorcycle riders, a couple of which I know personally, have been in accidents where it wasn't their fault. They were actually just going at the regular speed limit when they suddenly got cut off by another driver and ended up on the ground in the middle of traffic. In most of these cases the driver just doesn't see the motorcycle for some reason... while a motorcycle and a car are different, its not completely apples and oranges because you're still sharing the road with the same bad drivers.
You should know better - like you said, you've been in 5 accidents where you were hit by distracted/drunk drivers. Someone could have realized their exit was coming up too late, then slammed on the brakes and cut across traffic right in front of you.
It's time for you to take it to the track. An autocross is a much safer and more competitive area in which to compare your skill to another driver's skill. No posers in Corvettes or retards in Armadas.... cars matched up to yours almost as evenly as they can be. Or if you want the same adrenaline rush of racing in traffic, you can join NASA or HPDE.
Please don't endanger others on the road. Again, you may be a very skilled driver of your CL-S, which I will not dispute (yet) at least in this thread - I wouldn't really know. But people in traffic, or hell, the people that you egg on may not be up to par. They may take you out, or send someone else in a van full of kids into a ditch.
Thanks.
I could be Michael Schumacher and even then there's no guarantee that OTHER people won't get themselves hurt, or get in the way. It's a freeway, not a damn racetrack. It's made for people to travel long distances efficiently and quickly, not for someone like you, or that Corvette driver, or that Armada driver to make a fool out of themselves in front of everyone else on the road.
And you're talking about skill when it comes to gate shifting a bone-stock, automatic, FWD car?
It was likely set up by engineers and the lawyers to be forgiving in terms of handling and its performance was quite impressive in its day but compared to everything else out there its nothing special at all.Going back to what another poster mentioned about 2-wheels vs. 4-wheels, (in which you clearly didn't get the point) a lot of motorcycle riders, a couple of which I know personally, have been in accidents where it wasn't their fault. They were actually just going at the regular speed limit when they suddenly got cut off by another driver and ended up on the ground in the middle of traffic. In most of these cases the driver just doesn't see the motorcycle for some reason... while a motorcycle and a car are different, its not completely apples and oranges because you're still sharing the road with the same bad drivers.
You should know better - like you said, you've been in 5 accidents where you were hit by distracted/drunk drivers. Someone could have realized their exit was coming up too late, then slammed on the brakes and cut across traffic right in front of you.
It's time for you to take it to the track. An autocross is a much safer and more competitive area in which to compare your skill to another driver's skill. No posers in Corvettes or retards in Armadas.... cars matched up to yours almost as evenly as they can be. Or if you want the same adrenaline rush of racing in traffic, you can join NASA or HPDE.
Please don't endanger others on the road. Again, you may be a very skilled driver of your CL-S, which I will not dispute (yet) at least in this thread - I wouldn't really know. But people in traffic, or hell, the people that you egg on may not be up to par. They may take you out, or send someone else in a van full of kids into a ditch.
Thanks.
08-31-2010, 01:04 AM
#75
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08-31-2010, 01:10 AM
#77
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Show me where I said the Sahara and the Rubicon are the same.
08-31-2010, 01:15 AM
#78
Three Wheelin'
This is why I stated earlier that you were done.
You based your entire argument on this:
Both have enthusiasts that attempt to make their stock vehicles more capable for the terrain.
You're making yourself look even more desperate to save face than before you decided to begin your crusade to somehow find weaknesses in my argument.
There is no "terrain" or any "obstacles" for a street car to be more "capable" of driving over. The person in the car driving next to you is neither part of the "terrain" nor is he an "obstacle" to overcome. So, what are you trying to say? Are you trying to say that a street car would need low profile tires or a supercharger or a turbocharger or a stainless steel exhaust just to drive down a public road? What "obstacles" could you be referring to that would be on a highway? Potholes? Dips? Low shoulders on the side of the road maybe? Maybe road construction? Hills? None of what I have mentioned could be considered "obstacles" that would present any kind of adverse condition that any completely stock vehicle couldn't easily negotiate.
There is no street, road, highway, turnpike, bridge, interstate or back road in North America that an average vehicle like a Volkswagen Beetle or a Ford Fiesta couldn't traverse without difficulty. I could buy a Toyota Prius and drive from here to Alaska with little or no difficulty. However, if you take a Toyota Prius and try to drive through the Moab trails in Utah you're not going to make it.
As far as my Jeep is concerned the reason why I didn't purchase a Rubicon is because (A) the only ones I could find were in neighboring states that I wasn't about to drive nearly a half a day or longer just to reach one. (B) Many of the Rubicons I came across were pre JK models that didn't have the accessories I was looking for. (C) I don't consider the Rubicon's ability to lock both the front and rear differentials to be such a significant off-road advantage that I would purchase an older Rubicon just to say I have one. I did find one Rubicon in the area where I live that was a JK model but it had those horrendous black plastic fenders and base model steel wheels.
The only difference between a Rubicon and a Sahara is a transfer case that locks both the front and rear differentials and a Dana 44 rear end, and slightly heavier duty suspension. Having had the choice between a Sahara with every option and a partially stripped Rubicon I chose the Sahara. Even with a more heavy duty front and rear axles a Rubicon can get stuck just like a Sahara if you think you can hit aggressive terrain with stock tires.
You based your entire argument on this:
Both have enthusiasts that attempt to make their stock vehicles more capable for the terrain.
You're making yourself look even more desperate to save face than before you decided to begin your crusade to somehow find weaknesses in my argument.
There is no "terrain" or any "obstacles" for a street car to be more "capable" of driving over. The person in the car driving next to you is neither part of the "terrain" nor is he an "obstacle" to overcome. So, what are you trying to say? Are you trying to say that a street car would need low profile tires or a supercharger or a turbocharger or a stainless steel exhaust just to drive down a public road? What "obstacles" could you be referring to that would be on a highway? Potholes? Dips? Low shoulders on the side of the road maybe? Maybe road construction? Hills? None of what I have mentioned could be considered "obstacles" that would present any kind of adverse condition that any completely stock vehicle couldn't easily negotiate.
There is no street, road, highway, turnpike, bridge, interstate or back road in North America that an average vehicle like a Volkswagen Beetle or a Ford Fiesta couldn't traverse without difficulty. I could buy a Toyota Prius and drive from here to Alaska with little or no difficulty. However, if you take a Toyota Prius and try to drive through the Moab trails in Utah you're not going to make it.
As far as my Jeep is concerned the reason why I didn't purchase a Rubicon is because (A) the only ones I could find were in neighboring states that I wasn't about to drive nearly a half a day or longer just to reach one. (B) Many of the Rubicons I came across were pre JK models that didn't have the accessories I was looking for. (C) I don't consider the Rubicon's ability to lock both the front and rear differentials to be such a significant off-road advantage that I would purchase an older Rubicon just to say I have one. I did find one Rubicon in the area where I live that was a JK model but it had those horrendous black plastic fenders and base model steel wheels.
The only difference between a Rubicon and a Sahara is a transfer case that locks both the front and rear differentials and a Dana 44 rear end, and slightly heavier duty suspension. Having had the choice between a Sahara with every option and a partially stripped Rubicon I chose the Sahara. Even with a more heavy duty front and rear axles a Rubicon can get stuck just like a Sahara if you think you can hit aggressive terrain with stock tires.
PLEASE SHOW ME WHERE I POSTED INCORECT INFO?
08-31-2010, 01:17 AM
#79
Three Wheelin'
