Sideswipe

I'm racing back home to pick up some paperwork I left on my desk. I'm running a good 100 to 110mph--nothing fancy. All of a sudden I hear a loud, crackling thunder of a V8. I'm looking in my rearview trying to find the source of the thunder when not even 5 second later a jet black Vette thunders right past me. I could easily tell from the sound and the four oversized chrome pipes jutting out the back of the car like four 50mm cannons on an old battle ship that the dude meant business. 3 seconds later a charcoal grey Nissan Armada floats by trying to keep up with the Vette. Aaaaaahhhh hell yes I had to take a piece of that action!!

Gate shifted down to 3rd, caught two little jerks from the rev limiter and slammed it up to 4th. I passed the Armada and gained on the Vette. There were too many twists and turns and traffic on the section of highway we were traveling through, so the dude in the Vette couldn't open it up all the way otherwise he would have disappeared into the horizon. The Vette zigs left and I zag right. He ended up getting caught up in traffic while I had an empty lane. Just as the Vette zags right to catch up to me I zig left across three lanes to the next stretch of empty lane.

By the time the Vette makes it to the right lane where I was he realizes why I left that lane. He got caught behind two slow 18 wheelers and a Roto-Rooter truck. Meanwhile the Armada is almost too far behind to see. Just as I'm nearing my exit the Vette cuts me off and beats me to the exit. At the rate of speed he was coming there was no way I was going to jump in front of him. Besides, at the end of the exit ramp is a nearly 180 degree right turn through a traffic light.

One thing I'm DAMN good at is taking hard turns like Emerson Fittipaldi. As we're coming to the turn the dude in the Vette shuts down--he's afraid to take the turn!! I slip past him and take the turn. I gate shifted down to first and squirted through the turn, two car lengths ahead of the Vette by the exit of the turn.

Here comes the Armada. We're at the next stop light. We're still rolling as the light turns green. I'm still in 1st and jam it up to 2nd. The dude never had a chance. I was already hard under power as he was trying to slow down. I was already several car lengths ahead by the time he decided to get on it. We come to another hard turn and that was it for the 3 ton monster.

kdawg8526

iTrader: (3)

nice run sounds like alotta fun

MurkyRiversTL

Nice!

Joe5.0

40 years old and racing a Vette in your CL-S? I'll bet you have sweet gate-shifting skills.

Seriously, darwinism is going to catch up to you at some point. Hopefully you dont take out anyone else with your amazing F1 cornering skills.

Fvcking moron.

MurkyRiversTL

^ you can share your opinion on the matter, but personal attacks are going a little far.... dont ya think?

FiftyFive

Let's not start throwing names around, but doesn't sound too safe eh?

MurkyRiversTL

Safe? not exaclty, but then again this isnt exactly the safety section. Trust me, I have had my fair share of rants in this section about safety but in the end the person is still going race until something happens to them.

I use to do it all the time until I lost a friend to street racing. Sharing information and experiences to deter someone from unsafe acts is going to a lot further with them than calling names.... IMO.

Sideswipe

This coming from a kid with a retarded South Park cartoon character for an avatar. I'm really shocked it took this long for one of those crybabies to come trolling up in a thread like this. Don't project your inferiority on me just because you may have the critical thinking skills and reflexes of a tree slug.

But to respond to the moderator--was it safe? With over 20 years experience of street racing under my belt? Sure. The funny thing is I've only had five traditional collisions in my driving career--none of them race related.

In two wrecks I was cut off by a drunk driver. In the first accident the guy was a hit and run but with the drunk driver you obviously know what the end result was with him--Not only was he drunk he was also under age. In three wrecks I was rear ended--one by a teenager that was too busy giggling with her girlfriends in the car to pay attention to traffic, and one by an idiot in his early twenties that didn't have the critical thinking skills to watch both oncoming traffic and the right turn signal that had turned red. The other was by some idiot in his late twenties that was too busy eyeballing some chick walking down the street to pay attention to stopped traffic in front of him.

When I race in situations where I may be in traffic it's not about winning it's about executing a move safely. If I can't execute a certain move safely it's not going to be executed.

Joe5.0

Your defense is to point out my avatar? Good job, you got me there.

And show me a timeslip with a perfect reaction time old man, because I can produce one. If you consider your driving style high in critical thinking, then you are a bigger moron that I first thought.

Nobody cares about the details of your driving career, and how you were never at any kind of fault for any accidents, EVER!!!!

The funnier thing to me is that you think your "Fittipaldi' skills, plus 'slamming it into 4th' (in an automatic :theghey: ), and cutting in and out of traffic makes you somehow a superior driver.

Did you ever think the Corvette driver slowed in the corner because he didnt care to race a 10 year old glorified Accord? If it were me in the Vette I wouldnt have even bothered with such a POS, seriously.

Noone is impressed you drive recklessly or have a gate-shifted F1 Accord.

MurkyRiversTL

@sideswipe: you also have to take into consideration that the cars on the road have the potential to move in front of you, change into a lane that you have just entered, spaz because a car going at a riduculous rate of speed is approaching them from behind (which usually results in brake lights from them) I honestly dont agree with racing in traffic. I saw a EVO 8 and a corvette racing on my way down to san diego one time. They must have been doing 130+ and within 5 mins from me seeing them, traffic came to a hualt. I was stuck in traffic for 2 hours. When I passed the accident all I saw was pieces of a corvette spread across 3 lanes.

I hope this never happens to you.

Sideswipe

Not interested in the crybaby responses. Don't care what you think, don't care who you are or why you're being a crybaby. Thank you for your participation.

MurkyRiversTL

It wasnt a crybaby response, just adding to your critical thinking skills when making your maneuvers in traffic at high speeds. Its ultimately up to you what youre going to do, and there isnt a person on this forum that can persuade your decisions.

Nice story. Take it easy.

Joe5.0

Nice response. Your debate and intellect obviously match your F1 gate-shifting skills.

SteveNSX

What the hell kinda experience is street racing? Also 5 accidents? Being a 2 wheel rider, I understand that it does not matter who's fault it is. The key is you were in an accident which tells me you do not understand defensive driving. Most all accidents are avoidable if you are a good perceptive driver and do not put yourself in danger. 5 accidents on a bike....you are probably dead. People that brag about 20 years of street racing are the reason I only ride the bike on the track now. Grow up man. You do not possess the skills you think you do and you have demonstrated this fact in your post.

CH46ESeaKnight

Sideswipe

This whole paragraph cracks me the fuck up. Before you decided to commence to spewing diarrhea all over this thread you need to employ some reading comprehension skills if you have any. Otherwise, I wouldn't suggest you take the ASVAB or you'd miserably fail the reading/analogy portion.Lemme entertain myself and take a few moments to dissect the hell out of this crybaby rant:

Ignorant statement #1. Also 5 accidents?

In over 20 years of driving and having owned 4 different cars I've clocked an average of 300,000 miles on each car (100,000 on my current Acura and 3000 on my new Jeep Wrangler). Having lived in 3 different states( Alabama, Georgia, Florida), 7 different cities, and clocked road trips of an average of 2000 miles at least once a month between states, in addition to daily commuting to wherever I worked while living in one of the several different cities anyone with common sense can deduce that I've spent a lot of time on the road in over 20 years of driving.

You also failed to comprehend that of the 5 accidents I had in all my years of driving experience the other driver was declared to be at fault by witnessing traffic officer. In layman's terms that means the other driver's insurance had to pay for the damage. Of the 5 accidents I had there was only 1 case where my insurance had to pay for damages. It was because the idiot that rear-ended me had no insurance. And in the state of Florida there is no law constituting a fine and/or imprisonment if an offender has no insurance. If I were an average simpleton that spent weeks at a time never drove more than a 5 mile square radius from my home, then I could see where 5 accidents would be excessive. But having clocked a total of around one million miles driving through the entire eastern side of North America, I would say 5 accidents in over 20 years is quite modest.

Ignorant statement #2. Being a 2 wheel rider, I understand that it does not matter who's fault it is.

First of all, speedy, this forum, hell, this entire discussion board is about 4-wheeled vehicles not motorcycles.
Secondly, I've ridden Harleys without a helmet through south Florida for several years--Never got even so much as a scratch. If anyone has driven through South Florida, particularly, Miami, then you know that riding a motorcycle without a helmet and without getting killed is a monumental feat in itself, so that little crybaby speech about being a 2-wheeled rider falls on deaf ears.

Ignorant statement #3. Most all accidents are avoidable if you are a good perceptive driver and do not put yourself in danger.

You sleep with your state driver's manual under your pillow don't you? So, tell me, mr. safety inspector, how do you avoid being rear ended if (A) your vehicle is stopped behind other stopped traffic at a (B) clearly posted red signal light? I'm sure with your X amount of years of flawless driving experience you must have an intelligible answer.

Secondly, mr. safety monitor, how do you avoid a drunk driver if (A) the drunk driver executes a 180 degree turn and t-bones your car while you're (B) stopped at a (C) clearly posted red signal light? Please teach me oh traffic safety Jedi master.

Ignorant statement #4. You do not possess the skills you think you do and you have demonstrated this fact in your post.

You're either reading someone else's post or you have mental issues and should consult professional from a licensed, board certified psychiatrist. Firstly, where did you read in my initial post that I had an accident with the Corvette or the Nissan Armada or any of the other vehicles that were on the highway?

Secondly, have you read any of the posts I've made on this discussion board in the years I've been a member here where I stated that I had an accident of any kind? Hell no.

In over 20 years of street racing IN AUTOMOBILES I haven't had a single accident.

I may have accumulated a truckload of speeding tickets along the way but no accidents while street racing.

poisx7

iTrader: (1)

SUBSCRIBED
just what i need to get my weekend JUMPING

Oakroadsteve

Your posts are always good reading Sideswipe but I have to side with the crybabies on racing in traffic. You never know what some idiot is going to do in front of you no matter how killed a navigator you appear to be.....

Sideswipe

I don't care what side you take. It's a free country. It's common knowledge that you're going to have to be wary of idiots on the road whether you're driving at 15mph in a Mall parking deck, 20mph in grocery store parking lot or 145mph on a 6 lane highway. That's what breaks and/or taking evasive action are for.

MurkyRiversTL

no Breaks are taken to relax... Brakes are what you meant...

richardparker

iTrader: (7)

What kind of work you have done to your car ?
Any pics.
I seen about 95% of your theads are about racing.
Is your car fast or do you just think it's fast.

Sideswipe

You're done.

MurkyRiversTL

yeah???

Sideswipe

If you've seen about 95% of my threads, then you'd know that I've said time and time again over the years that my CL-S is completely stock except for routine maintenance and I never have and never will make any modifications to my car.

Is my car fast or do I think it's fast? Seriously? Did you really just ask that question or were you attempting to be facetious?

Once again, if you really "seen" my threads, then you'd know every car I've raced and beaten was within the realm of capabilities that a CL-S could take out. If I had an encounter with a car that was obviously out of a CL-S's league I was very adamant about emphasizing that I wasn't racing the car--it was only to experience the other car's capabilities.

I don't desire to modify my CL-S because I like the car just the way it is for one thing. IMO buying a car that doesn't perform to one's satisfaction defies logic unless (A) your intent was to make the car a build project from the get-go or (B) you couldn't afford a better car. Secondly, my Acura will remain stock because after having gone through 3 transmissions just from regular wear and tear I'm not about to eat through another tranny.

As I've also said before, if I make any modifications to a vehicle that I own it will be to my Jeep Wrangler Sahara I bought a couple months ago. It definitely needs an intake--I'm not going to buy a new air filter every time I go off-roading. It also needs more aggressive mud tires, a chip and a winch but that's about it.

Anyone else feel like they want to chime in with their little comments please feel free at least until a moderator decides to close this thread.

MurkyRiversTL

I think you bought the wrong jeep if you have to modify it...... going by your A and B list.

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

I like turtles.

princelybug

iTrader: (16)

Nice!

Sideswipe

That's where you're wrong. Street racing and off-roading are two completely different worlds. The JK model Jeep Wrangler is the most capable off the showroom floor Jeep ever made. The JK rolls off the showroom floor with something every other previous model Jeep owners want from CJ-5 through CJ-7 all the way through the Renegade, Laredo, and Rubicon models: Lift.

The JK model has a higher ride clearance than any previous model. It also comes with (Sahara model) an Infiniti 6 CD changing, MP3-playing Sirius Satellite sound system, larger 18 inch wheels, a larger back seat with headrests, and a true stain resistant interior. The JK model is larger, rides smoother, and has the best suspension ever installed in a Jeep to handle more serious off-roading, which is why my list of modifications is much shorter than most owners of previous model Jeeps.

In street racing, 9 times out of 10 if you can buy a car like a Mustang or a Camaro or a 350Z and hit the road. No so with off-loading. Unlike street cars, no manufacturer, foreign or domestic, will equip an off-road vehicle with what it truly needs. If any modifications are done to a 4WD vehicle it's because its needed to handle aggressive terrain not to race someone else.

MurkyRiversTL

Street racing and off roading are different only in terrain. Both have enthusiasts that attempt to make their stock vehicles more capable for the terrain in which they use their vehicle. At the time, your CL-S was Acuras most capable street car as far as speed goes and a lot of guys try to make them faster as do jeep guys try to make their jeeps better off road vehicles.

Once again, just like your jeep, the CL-S was the all options model of the Cl's for Acura with a lineup of aftermarket items to achieve the goal that many are trying for. And if youre all about off-roading like you say you are, why didnt you opt for the Rubicon instead of the Saraha, where you wouldnt have to buy after market parts and it is the most capable of all jeeps for the sport your into.

You can buy any car and hit the road, just like you can buy any truck and hit the trails. Doesnt mean its going to do well. And using a mustang, camaro, and 350z...... do you know how many aftermarket parts are available for these damn cars??????? Your digging yourself a hole here, and its getting deeper..

You do realize how contradicting your statement is.... right?

Sideswipe

Before I nullify your argument I want you to know that even though I erased most of your so-called rebuttal I did read it. For some reason you tried to base your argument on the fact that both off-roaders and street racers both "make their stock vehicles more capable for the terrain".

Ummmmmm here's the significant difference between an off-road terrain and pavement:

You modify a street car to compete against other people.

You modify a 4WD vehicle to overcome difficult terrain.

You can jump in a 350Z, a Camaro, a Mustang or a Nissan GT-R, drive right off the showroom floor and beat a lot of the competition on the road without one single modification. Hell, you can happily drive right down the road without any modifications to a street car because a road, a street, a highway, an interstate will not present any terrestrial obstacles for a street car to overcome.

However, in the off-road world, I don't care whether you're in a Suzuki Samurai, a Range Rover Sport or a Jeep Wrangler Rubicon the manufacturers do not equip their 4WD vehicle with the type of tires that can handle a 3 foot deep mud hole, rocky, treacherous hills with an 80 degree or steeper angle or crawl over 3 ton boulders with gaps between them ranging anywhere from 5 feet to 10 feet deep. No manufacturer will equip their off-road vehicle with a winch that is an essential tool if an off-roader gets in over his or her head.

You may need more horsepower or lower gears or more aggressive tires in order to conquer unpaved terrain. It just depends on where an off-roader goes. You can be perfectly fine one minute in your stock off-road vehicle and run into a mud pit or a path that turns into a steep incline full of rocks and small boulders or a pathway full of gorges. The worst you'll ever encounter on the road is potholes or construction.

You can trust that I can handle 95% of the terrain I encounter in my Jeep. There's just that 5% where hills equivalent of 10 stories high with about a 75 degree incline and littered with small to large boulders cannot be conquered with stock tires. Swampy areas where there may be mud holes that can swallow a vehicle up to the door handles cannot be handled with factory tires. I'd rather have the kind of intake where the filter can be cleaned and re-used rather than having a regular air filter and having to buy a new one after nearly every trail run because I sucked in some water or mud. And of course a chip will help a Jeep achieve a little better gas mileage while running bigger tires.

Anymore questions, speedy?

MurkyRiversTL

You really need to think outside of your box. Just because your obstacles are physical ones on your "course" made by mother nature doesnt mean they are better or worse than the obstacles on the highways and byways made by man, which are pother vehicles. I truly see your point, but you must take into consideration that you are comparing two different sports of which have the same goal. TO BE BETTER AT SOMETHING THAN WHAT THE MANUFACTURER PROVIDES. The CL-S may be able to take on 95% of the vehicles on the road but the 5% requires modifications to be able to beat them. Are you catching the similarities yet?

You still havent said why you didnt purchase the Rubicon....

CH46ESeaKnight

Please tell me you are not saying that the Sahara is better equiped then the Rubicon? Or that the Sahara is more capableoff road or cheaper to take to the next level than a Rubicon?

CH46ESeaKnight

Wow, so because the Sahara might have an inch higher ride height it is the most capable Jeep ever made? Ok, um yea, I'm sure everytime a Rubicon owner see's a Sahara he is like "Dang man, that Sahara is the king dingaling in off roading, I should have got me one of them". RIGHT!

Do you have any clue how much it would cost to go up a few inches on a Rubicon? Maybe a few hundred bucks.

Do you have any idea what it would cost to put Front and rear generation II Dana 44 axles, front and rear electronic lockers, rock rails, Electronic sway bar disconnect, 32 spline rear axle with an 8.8 inch ring gear, 4:1 Rock-Trac transfer case, 4.10 axle gearing in your Sahara. All of wich make IT (the Rubicon) the most capable off road Jeep ever made! Not the Sahara.

Sideswipe

This is why I stated earlier that you were done.

You based your entire argument on this:

Both have enthusiasts that attempt to make their stock vehicles more capable for the terrain.

You're making yourself look even more desperate to save face than before you decided to begin your crusade to somehow find weaknesses in my argument.

There is no "terrain" or any "obstacles" for a street car to be more "capable" of driving over. The person in the car driving next to you is neither part of the "terrain" nor is he an "obstacle" to overcome. So, what are you trying to say? Are you trying to say that a street car would need low profile tires or a supercharger or a turbocharger or a stainless steel exhaust just to drive down a public road? What "obstacles" could you be referring to that would be on a highway? Potholes? Dips? Low shoulders on the side of the road maybe? Maybe road construction? Hills? None of what I have mentioned could be considered "obstacles" that would present any kind of adverse condition that any completely stock vehicle couldn't easily negotiate.

There is no street, road, highway, turnpike, bridge, interstate or back road in North America that an average vehicle like a Volkswagen Beetle or a Ford Fiesta couldn't traverse without difficulty. I could buy a Toyota Prius and drive from here to Alaska with little or no difficulty. However, if you take a Toyota Prius and try to drive through the Moab trails in Utah you're not going to make it.

As far as my Jeep is concerned the reason why I didn't purchase a Rubicon is because (A) the only ones I could find were in neighboring states that I wasn't about to drive nearly a half a day or longer just to reach one. (B) Many of the Rubicons I came across were pre JK models that didn't have the accessories I was looking for. (C) I don't consider the Rubicon's ability to lock both the front and rear differentials to be such a significant off-road advantage that I would purchase an older Rubicon just to say I have one. I did find one Rubicon in the area where I live that was a JK model but it had those horrendous black plastic fenders and base model steel wheels.

The only difference between a Rubicon and a Sahara is a transfer case that locks both the front and rear differentials and a Dana 44 rear end, and slightly heavier duty suspension. Having had the choice between a Sahara with every option and a partially stripped Rubicon I chose the Sahara. Even with a more heavy duty front and rear axles a Rubicon can get stuck just like a Sahara if you think you can hit aggressive terrain with stock tires.

MurkyRiversTL

Im not trying to save face, and my arguments carries weight. I'm trying to get you to stop contradicting yourself. If the other vehicles on the highway are obstacles then why in the hell would have to maneuver out of the way of other trucks and cars when your trying to race on the freeway? Read your original post, and to save you time here it is in quote form:
Now that sounds to me like your having a dificult time trying to race these cars. If it were so easy and something a ford fiesta could do why would you even need to post this is the racing section? Are you starting to realize yet? The obstacles are the other cars, lane mergings, offramps, onramps, cops, faster cars, weather, turns, bridges, tunnels.... they are all a part of the street racing "obstacle course" as are your rocks and dirt.

Im really not trying to argue with you, offroading is a great sport that has the possibility to end in tragedy just like street racing. You obviously enjoy street racing as you do offroading, trying to say that modifying a stock car to be faster is dumb but modifying your stock jeep is smart.... well that is a huge contradiction based on your reasoning. Its ok to be wrong sometimes.

Sideswipe

The reason why your argument carries zero weight is because there is no way in hell a CL-S needs any kind of modifications beyond better tires than what the manufacturer originally equipped the car with and routine maintenance using better aftermarket parts to aggressively maneuver around other cars or merge into traffic and/or change lanes. I have never in the time of owning my CL-S had a problem with merging into traffic from an entrance ramp or passing 99% of the automobiles out there on the highway.

And if you're trying to base your argument on the current street encounter your argument also carries no weight. It's obvious that a CL-S would be no match for any Corvette whether stock or modified. Nevertheless, the point of the whole street encounter was to test the Corvette driver's skill. If it was worth the Corvette driver's time to race a damn 4 ton Nissan Armada, then it's worth his time to match his skill against a vehicle that's designed for more aggressive handling, and a driver that has the skill to use the abilities of the CL-S to its full potential, which I had no problem dishing out to him.

The end result? Even though I was outmatched car v.s. car my skills outmatched his--he had too much speed going into an almost 180 degree turn, which forced him to brake more than I needed to. It was easier to follow him at a slower speed knowing that he wouldn't be able to make the turn without hard braking rather than me trying to beat him to the turn and risk spinning out or worse, crashing into the ditch.

Turns, bridges, tunnels, hell, I'll venture further to say adverse conditions such as rain, sleet and snow are conditions that require nothing more than tires that are designed to handle adverse conditions such as the aforementioned. If you try to justify adding modifications to a CL-S beyond routine maintenance with better aftermarket parts (spark plugs, spark plug wires etc.) and more aggressive tires or suspension components i.e. shocks, springs or and struts your argument is dead in the water.

MurkyRiversTL

Its like trying to teach a kid how to read. You contradict yourself so much its not even funny any more. But by all means, stay in your 40 year old windowless box.

Sideswipe

And please don't tell me you're basing your whole argument on the premise of what other Jeep owners, namely Rubicon owners, have to say about the modifications needed to tackle extreme terrain. Of course a Rubicon is better equipped to handle extreme terrain than a Sahara but a Rubicon will get stuck just as quickly as a Sahara in extreme mud conditions if its running stock tires.

The only advantage a Rubicon has over a Sahara is the ability to turn all four wheels at the same time. That may be great for extreme off-roading such as climbing over a stationary object(s) like a large boulder(s), if you know what you're doing, and overcoming extreme terrain where forward motion may depend temporarily on one wheel. But 9 times out of 10 the Sahara can get through the same tight obstacles as a Rubicon provided that the Sahara has the right aggressive tires.

All that other junk about needing a 4 inch lift or higher, huge Mad Max front and rear bumpers or needing anything to the point where you have to fabricate parts and perform any cutting to the body or frame in order to achieve a certain level of modification is unnecessary if you use your Jeep mostly as a daily driver.

MurkyRiversTL

^

Sideswipe

You're right. It's literally like trying to teach you how to read.

You're trying to convince yourself as well as me that a CL-S needs modifications i.e. a Cold Air Intake, a supercharger, turbocharger, headers, a cat back exhaust or any kind of combination of bolt-on modifications that would significantly increase the horsepower and/or torque just to maneuver around other vehicles on the highway and to simply just merge into traffic and pass other vehicles on the road. That simply is a bald-faced lie. Nothing more than routine maintenance is needed on a CL-S to deal with traffic on the highway and to deal with entrance ramps, exit ramps, turns etc.

If you're talking about racing, particularly, trying to beat cars from a dig that would outmatch a CL-S without modifications, then yes you would need modifications. If you're talking about racing on a professional road course i.e. Watkins Glen, Sears Point, Homestead Raceway etc. against other modified cars, then yes you would need significant modifications.

A CL-S does NOT need bolt-on modifications to beat a significant number of cars on the road today. A CL-S definitely does NOT need bolt-on modifications to perform daily routine driving tasks such as negotiating entrance ramps, exit ramps, hills, turns, merging into traffic or passing cars.

If anyone driving any kind of stock 4WD vehicle desires to do any off-loading beyond normal off-roading conditions, then YES they are going to at the VERY LEAST need more aggressive tires.

There is NO "terrain" or "obstacles" on any kind of PAVED ROAD in North America that is to the effect that a street car needs to augment its horsepower and/or torque to successfully negotiate NORMAL PAVED PUBLIC ROAD conditions.