Zapata

If you all haven't read the great story in the racing section of this board, then i suggest you do so. Basically it was a discussion about the cls v. s4. A couple of the audi guys were talkin smack because they can beat our cls's. Did a little research and came to the conclusion that the s4 should be able to beat the CL-S. Accordingly, audi guys talking shit to us is like acura guys talking shit to Contour SVT or some dude in civic si.

A comparison based on the price alone should tell you that a car that's worth 11,180k more should peform better. NOT THAT PRICE IS THE ALMIGHTY SCALE. If you take the stock audi s4 w/ the same options as the cl-s without navi, then the price is 41,980 (based on the MSRP from the audi website). On the other hand, the acura cls is 30,810.00.

IF you want an equal comparison, then let's make the two cars equal is price. Add MachtypeS 3.5L upgrade and you've added about 3.5k to the CLS. Now the next statement is based purely on heresay from MachtypeS, but he seems a unbiased guy so we'll take his word for the sake of this arguement, CL-S is already beating the mighty S4. Approximate figures are 315hp and not sure about the torque. Now our CL-S is at 35k. To make the price equal we add the Comptech SC (it's not out yet but humor me). The cost of the two cars will be relatively the same. Conservatively, we can add 50hp (running very low boost) and the CL-S is at 365hp and something close to 280+ lbs/ft of torque. Now if Machtypes' 3.5 is already beating the S4, what will the 3.5L SC CL-S do to the Audi s4? Hypothetically, S4 would stand for the number of times the audi driver will say shit! As the Acura leaves their AWD cars by the wayside

My point is that it doesn't make much sense for the S4 dudes to shit on us. What about CL-S guys saying they beat an S4? Anything can happen I guess when a car that's 10k less than your car starts getting close.....it's a bit hard to swallow.....it happens to all of us

Infamuz

Those punks with the Audi S4 have bi-turbo, we don't. Let them talk all that smack, tell them to get a regular A4 to race against us. I say fuck'em!

doug

i have never seen more bullshit in my life.. don't bring prices into this argument.. its called RUN WHAT YOU BRUNG.. if you are going to compare prices... then you might as well talk about a chipped Audi 1.8T which will walk a CL-S

Thank You and Good Night

Achance

well if you want to start modding cars just take a used civic for $5k add a gsr swap another $5k, and then a turbo for another $5k. So there you have a $15k that will beat both the S4 and Cl-s.

doug

exactly my point.. so lets not pull the price card.. it can work for you .. but mostly against you..

Personally i would go for a blow engine CRX SI and shove a Non Vtec LS motor in it and Turbo that bad boy for way less and walk almost anything on the road

Infamuz

I say to those fools, "Take their S4s, shine them up really nice, I mean really nice, turn them sons bitch side ways, and stick straight up their candy asses"! Sorry got Rock syndrome!

BNut

So why do the M3 guys brag about beating an S4 when the M3 costs waaaay more than the S4?

Let's face it, we are all hypocrits when it comes to comparing our cares to others.

Be happy with what you own... you just look insecure when you get all bent out of shape every time someone says something you don't agree with about your car.

Zapata

bullshit? dude, calm down. I was merely trying to come up with a standard of comparison. Do you have one that is better???????? No, i guess you don't. I stated in my post that price isn't the best standard but it isn't bad.

RUN WHAT YOU BRUNG??@?@ Grammer man.....grammer. WTF does that mean. That's lunacy. My point was that the S4 has 10k of shit that we don't have!!!!! As result, a comparison or any form of trash talking is stupid. The lack of comprehension on this board suprises me sometimes.


Sure we can talk a chipped A4. But we won't because my post wasn't about the A4 and the CL-S. It was about the CLS and the S4 dummy. Again, read the damn post. It even says it in the subject and even in the intro when i setup the comparison.

M3 guys really shouldn't be talking trash about beating S4's. That's like the Yankee's talking shit to the Expos. One has a payroll of 100 million and the other less than 30 million.

Handruin

So, what it all breaks down to is...who has the biggest wallet. This goes for anything in life, and any competitive hobby. I do understand the frustration, I feel as though it’s apples to oranges though. All I can say is, just enjoy your CL-S...it offers plenty of nice ride for far less than an over-priced VW.

(and, Honda doesn’t have to resort to a forced induction to get their cars moving. I consider F.I. the cheap way out)

doug

are all CL-S owners cry babies such as yourself? i am curious

z28typeSWRXkid

you guys all forgot the most important point....our trans would never handle that power! It can barely handle the 260hp...so every1 walks away from us...end of story.

AudiAce

Finally someone with some sense. Blah blah blah, supercharger this, conversion that... sheeeshh

spiroh

ive seen a S4 at the track. He ran a 14.5 with an ok driver. it will take a few mods just to beat a stock one.

WiLd~CL~TYPS-@SS

run what you what??? brung??

M5 Lite

Stick a $600 chip in the S4 and then you got 70 more HP (320hp total) and close to +100 lbs of torque (360lbs approx.).

Now thats a mod worth getting. Too bad it voids the warranty.

GoldTypeS_RENAMED

How many times are we going to do a CL vs S4 or CL vs Maxima or CL vs ?? thread?

There's always a faster, cheaper, better car. Who cares?? I'll keep this thread open but if it gets the least bit snippy it's outta here. I don't see the point....

kastegir

I agree on the apples to oranges bit. but the "overpriced-VW" is a low blow. That's just not cool. No one's ragging on your "overpriced Honda". Drive a VW and then an Audi and tell me they're the same car.

As far as forced induction versus normally aspirated engines, it's just a matter of how you make the horsepower. I'm a fan of turbocharging because it gives you a bunch more power without taking away from highway fuel efficiency. Besides, last I checked, there were a lot of people here clammoring for a supercharger or turbo for the CLS...

BBsAcuraRacing

Heh. Take 10,000, buy a stock 1986-7 regal with 3.8SFI turbo, add about 2500.00 in mods and run high 11 second 1/4 mile times and ppiss off S4's and new M-3's, Just hope you don't have to stop or turn.......

Bluto

"overpriced-VW" What would expect at an Acura board? Go to an Audi or BMW board - they talk trash about Japanese cars. So what is your point?

I'm a fan of anything that makes a car go faster. Turbos and superchargers are nice. NOS if your into it. Some companies added turbos to their cars when emissions cut back power. Honda sold and sells cars without turbos, and they will never have a need to do so.

[ 07-27-2001: Message edited by: Bluto ]

Zapata

Cry babies????? RIGHT! What exactly am I crying about? Just because you can't follow a discussion about something, don't get all mad. Respond to what I said in my post that replied to yours, that's the way you have a discussion.

Handruin,
yes, you are right......99% of the time it does come down to who has the most resources, land, money etc., which was part of my statement.

z28typeSWRXkid,
How can you say our cars barely handle 260hp???? Just because a few people have had tranny problems all of a sudden the car can't handle the power? Get real. Moreover, there are a good number of people on this board who are pushing 270hp and not all of them have had tranny problems. Learn the difference between correlation and causation.

AudiAce,
Like i said......the yankee's beating the expos.....that isn't much to write about. Expos beating the Yankee's.....now we have a story.

MCHM3

conversion this

doug

ok since this is an Acura board and not a "honda" board..i will use correct english for you..

"Race the car you curently own in its current state."

is that better for you buddy?

patsmere

The S4 is a bad@$$ car. Now if we go STOCK FOR STOCK We have almost no chance. (Depending on the driver) If we add MODS and they were to add the same ones then we just should stay and home and watch. Money shouldn't be an issue. If it were we would all be driving M5's

BusGradCLS

Zapata, you rock. Doug seems to have "I'm 17 and mad at my dad for not letting me borrow the car" syndrome. It's a frustration thing. It's also about defending your $42K purchase, but hey, don't we all defend our purchases? We all like to talk about the "great deal" we have made for ourselves and sell others on that opinion, when in reality, noone gets a great deal. Cars are an expensive depreciating hobby, but they make us happy!

doug

shhhsss.. don't tell anyone.. but in my sig.. it shows what i own .. hahaha.. no i am not defending the S4 and if the it was a CL-S guy talking to a Civic guy i would have the same argument.. why bring if i had spent what you spent into an argument.. lets just talk about what we own..

not what we could have...

Zapata

doug i've concluded that you are just ignorant. You must see the world in two colors. Wake up my friend, many many shades exist.

gavriil

You know, it is interesting that a post like this could go on for ever. My car is cheaper to buy but slower, their car is 35% more to buy but faster and will respond much better to mods because of the forced fed application.

My 2 cents to a post like that is that all of you imply a "race" as a "drag race" or a "straight line" race. You know, this might be America, or the USA even better but racing involves turning and braking in other parts of the world which brings a million more factors in the creation of a sports car like weight, where that weight distribution is, etc.

What I am trying to say is that even if you 3.5ed and supercharged our CL and even found a stronger tranny to take the torque, you still would lose to an S4 in a real track. And I say real as a personal comment because to me racing is what they do in Europe (and to some extend here in the USA sometimes), like the German DTM, the GTV cup in Italy, the Le Mans in France and the F1 races all over the world. Even oval racing to me is not real racing.

Dont make this thread a "what real racing is", that is not my intention but I wanted to remind you that when Audi and BMW make cars in Europe and import them in the US and then magazines here test them and come out and say things like, "this 3 series is in our top 10 list for 7 years in a row and it handles like no other sports sedan we tested", dont think that by supercahrging you Acura or Buick and making more power which might make your vehicle faster in a drag race ends the "who is faster" topic. Cos if you take that S4 on a real track you will see why power is not everything.

Another proof of why power is not everything is why the Camaro SS is not as desirable as a 911 or an NSX for example. Why is a Viper less desirable than an F360 Modena. Actually the NSX example above is the best example. Our brand, Acura has shown to the world that to make a true sports car or even better, to really be fast, you have to have a car that will be fast not only in the straight line but also in the breaking and turning department.

But then again, everyone also forgot that our CLS is a FRICKING LUXURY GT &*()*&(*& DAMN IT PEOPLE. Go and make sure you understand what a luxury GT is because threads like these show how ignorant people are in the "vehicle category" department. I dont give a crap's ass if the S4 is faster in the straight or in the cornering or anywhere else. The $29,000 I paid, for what I wanted off my car, and for what I got, is the BEST FRICKING DEAL AROUND FOR ME! FOR ME! Not for you or you. FOR ME!

Sorry but you guys got issues after all these threads about CLS vs. xxxMy ASS car and still going on about something that has no ground.

[ 07-27-2001: Message edited by: gavriil ]

[ 07-27-2001: Message edited by: gavriil ]

[ 07-27-2001: Message edited by: gavriil ]

Zapata

Not sure what you are trying to say but my point was that people in S4 shouldn't be talking shit to people in CL-S because of the obvious differences in resources. My thesis would apply to any type of race. I may have alluded to a straigh line drag or some street racing but nothing beyond that. I don't think anybody ever said that the
CL-S is some great GT-Cup car.

M5 Lite

Well said Gavriil

moomaster_99

I can still beat an s4...

doug

sounds like a bitch argument to me

moomaster_99

I can beat an M3...not a new one though.

MCHM3

me 2

moomaster_99

I'm gonna beat MCH...

4DR Assassin_RENAMED

Zapata
I hear your argument, but it's just one of the worst you can use. Price doesn't tell you anything. Fine, my car cost 10k more than yours. So, what? Does that mean it's better? Hell no. Just means it cost more. The reason I say your argument is not a good one, because the way you used the difference in price. You just took it as power mods. That 10k is in they entire car, not just under the hood. You have to look at the car as a whole, not just the engine. I mean AWD, fit and finish and a bunch of other crap they rape people for has to be included in that 10k....not just changes to make more HP/TQ. You can't just say well if I spent 10k to equal the price of the S4 in power mods, then the S4 would get dusted. Just not a bad bad one to compare to autos.

All S4 owners don't look down at CL-S owners...I see alot of CL-S owners look down on S4 owners here. Shit I hate either owner if they give me reason too. Both cars are really good at what they are designed for. THe great thing about it is, the make their owners happy.

doug
I hear you Doug. On the street, you have to run what's under the hood. If you lose, you just go back to the lab and get more mods. That's why I'm up to.

BNut
Good post man.

Damaged
As long as you don't leave the chip in the car when you take it in for service, you're fine in 9 of 10 times.

I mean, who cares how much another car costs or if it's faster. You guys (just like I) bought your car because you wanted it. I'm sure if you wanted an S4, you would have bought one. Just enjoy your car, you paid for it.

[ 07-27-2001: Message edited by: 4DR Assassin ]

gavriil

thanks damaged

moomaster_99

I can beat Damaged's M3!!!

Zapata

Awe man! People please read my post before responding. I said in the first few lines that price isn't the best standard of comparison but for this discussion it wasn't a bad standard. As for your statement that price just means that it costs more is just dumb because cost in cars MOST of the time equates to a better product. So yes, because the S4 is more expensive than the
CL-S it should be better. I went to each car makers website and priced out the cars and put the exact some options in each car. The car are approximately the same. The price that i used for the Audi has no more options than the CL-S that i priced. So both cars have leather, sun/moonroof, heated seats etc., A comparison between each car from the dealership shows that the CL-S and the S4 have almost the same options. Thus, the difference in price that we will consider for the discussion in this context will be the engine and the drive. Since I wanted to add options that are available for the CLS now or in developement, i only considered the engine because in a cost comparison there isn't a place besides the engine that we can attribute the difference in cost. It wouldn't be fair for me to bring mods to the drive because the CL-S is only available in the FWD version. Although, an AWD CL-S and an S4 become very very close. Thus, the 10k in cost the engine because we are talking about speed and not the paint job.

i never said ALL s4 owners. Only S4 owners who get ballsy talkin smack to CL-S owners. If a CL-S beats an S4, the CL-S has rights to talk shit but not the other way around. Why? Because that's just the way it is when one side has more resources than the other.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by 4DR Assassin:
[QB]Zapata
I hear your argument, but it's just one of the worst you can use. Price doesn't tell you anything. Fine, my car cost 10k more than yours. So, what? Does that mean it's better? Hell no. Just means it cost more. The reason I say your argument is not a good one, because the way you used the difference in price. You just took it as power mods. That 10k is in they entire car, not just under the hood. You have to look at the car as a whole, not just the engine. I mean AWD, fit and finish and a bunch of other crap they rape people for has to be included in that 10k....not just changes to make more HP/TQ. You can't just say well if I spent 10k to equal the price of the S4 in power mods, then the S4 would get dusted. Just not a bad bad one to compare to autos.

All S4 owners don't look down at CL-S owners...I see alot of CL-S owners look down on S4 owners here. Shit I hate either owner if they give me reason too. Both cars are really good at what they are designed for. THe great thing about it is, the make their owners happy.

4DR Assassin_RENAMED

I read your post, that's why I said what I said. Either way, I think arguments that use price in the way you did, are pointless. That's my honest opinion, but like they say.....opinions are like.....

As for either owner talking shit, neither should. I don't like shit talking S4 owners no more than I like shit talking CL owners. IF you win, do it with class. If you lose, do it with class...but get some more mods to win the next time.

[ 07-27-2001: Message edited by: 4DR Assassin ]

doug

car owners will always talk shit.. using price as a way to defend yourself? well thats just pussy..

always remember.. their is always a group of car owners that will be able to talk shit to you.. but then again their will always be a set of group of car owners that you talk shit to also