CL-S valve adjustment . . .
Thread Starter
Confused
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 4,008
Likes: 237
From: SoCal
CL-S valve adjustment . . .
Getting close to 104,000 miles. Is a check of the valve adjustment really necessary? Do the valve clearances in this engine tend to loosen or tighten over time/miles? No noticeable ticking is noticeable and idle is still fairly smooth.
Thanx in advance.
Thanx in advance.
Banned
Joined: Jan 2002
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From: The Chi
As they say, if it ain't broke then don't fix it.
I am not saying that they shouldn't be inspected.....but a true inspection requires ripping apart the engine for $$ and checking the clearance. Many here have done this, only to find they were just fine or required a minute adjustment that wouldn't affect things anyway. So, hundreds of dollars were wasted to really know. Besides, how do you know they were even in spec for the past 105K miles? Should you check them say every 30K to be sure?.......of course not, as it is not practical.
A good technician should be able to tell by ear...hence the reason why Honda/Acura states "adjust only if noisy". Also keep in mind that 105K miles can be different for everyone. Has the car seen low revs (highway miles) or high revs (racing, spirited driving, etc.) for it's life? How frequent were the oil changes? The revs, and ultimately wear, are what really matter, assuming there wasn't a problem from the beginning (improper clearance from the factory) or a known history for this generation (i.e. like the early CRVs with tight valves).
If they were loose, you would hear it with a trained ear and stethoscope
If they were tight, you would have idle and other driveability problems.
My advice is to find someone with a trained ear and save your money for $4+ gas.
Just my two cents......use your own judgement and pay for the peace of mind if you really need it.
Good luck!
I am not saying that they shouldn't be inspected.....but a true inspection requires ripping apart the engine for $$ and checking the clearance. Many here have done this, only to find they were just fine or required a minute adjustment that wouldn't affect things anyway. So, hundreds of dollars were wasted to really know. Besides, how do you know they were even in spec for the past 105K miles? Should you check them say every 30K to be sure?.......of course not, as it is not practical.
A good technician should be able to tell by ear...hence the reason why Honda/Acura states "adjust only if noisy". Also keep in mind that 105K miles can be different for everyone. Has the car seen low revs (highway miles) or high revs (racing, spirited driving, etc.) for it's life? How frequent were the oil changes? The revs, and ultimately wear, are what really matter, assuming there wasn't a problem from the beginning (improper clearance from the factory) or a known history for this generation (i.e. like the early CRVs with tight valves).
If they were loose, you would hear it with a trained ear and stethoscope
If they were tight, you would have idle and other driveability problems.
My advice is to find someone with a trained ear and save your money for $4+ gas.
Just my two cents......use your own judgement and pay for the peace of mind if you really need it.
Good luck!
Originally Posted by djarovsky
As they say, if it ain't broke then don't fix it.
I am not saying that they shouldn't be inspected.....but a true inspection requires ripping apart the engine for $$ and checking the clearance. Many here have done this, only to find they were just fine or required a minute adjustment that wouldn't affect things anyway. So, hundreds of dollars were wasted to really know. Besides, how do you know they were even in spec for the past 105K miles? Should you check them say every 30K to be sure?.......of course not, as it is not practical.
A good technician should be able to tell by ear...hence the reason why Honda/Acura states "adjust only if noisy". Also keep in mind that 105K miles can be different for everyone. Has the car seen low revs (highway miles) or high revs (racing, spirited driving, etc.) for it's life? How frequent were the oil changes? The revs, and ultimately wear, are what really matter, assuming there wasn't a problem from the beginning (improper clearance from the factory) or a known history for this generation (i.e. like the early CRVs with tight valves).
If they were loose, you would hear it with a trained ear and stethoscope
If they were tight, you would have idle and other driveability problems.
My advice is to find someone with a trained ear and save your money for $4+ gas.
Just my two cents......use your own judgement and pay for the peace of mind if you really need it.
Good luck!
I am not saying that they shouldn't be inspected.....but a true inspection requires ripping apart the engine for $$ and checking the clearance. Many here have done this, only to find they were just fine or required a minute adjustment that wouldn't affect things anyway. So, hundreds of dollars were wasted to really know. Besides, how do you know they were even in spec for the past 105K miles? Should you check them say every 30K to be sure?.......of course not, as it is not practical.
A good technician should be able to tell by ear...hence the reason why Honda/Acura states "adjust only if noisy". Also keep in mind that 105K miles can be different for everyone. Has the car seen low revs (highway miles) or high revs (racing, spirited driving, etc.) for it's life? How frequent were the oil changes? The revs, and ultimately wear, are what really matter, assuming there wasn't a problem from the beginning (improper clearance from the factory) or a known history for this generation (i.e. like the early CRVs with tight valves).
If they were loose, you would hear it with a trained ear and stethoscope
If they were tight, you would have idle and other driveability problems.
My advice is to find someone with a trained ear and save your money for $4+ gas.
Just my two cents......use your own judgement and pay for the peace of mind if you really need it.
Good luck!
Banned
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 214
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From: The Chi
If you don't have a good independent shop or a shop that specializes in Hondas/Acuras, then you can try your local Acura dealer. Ask them to have a technician that has worked on numerous TLs/CLs from our model generation (and have even done valve adjustments) to listen to the valves and advise if they think an adjustment is really needed. Have them drive your car if needed. If they are a good and ethical dealer, then you should get a straight answer. You can even ask to talk to the technician yourself.
Also, here is a link from an independent shop with some insight:
http://www.artsautomotive.com/HondaV...Adjustment.htm
I put in an email request to them to see if they had any updated info to share, so hopefully they will respond back to me. If they do, I'll post it.
Also, here is a link from an independent shop with some insight:
http://www.artsautomotive.com/HondaV...Adjustment.htm
I put in an email request to them to see if they had any updated info to share, so hopefully they will respond back to me. If they do, I'll post it.
Thread Starter
Confused
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 4,008
Likes: 237
From: SoCal
Just talked to the wrench . . . .
His take is the same as "djarovsky", since there is no excess ticking noise and the idle/driveabilty has not changed, leave them alone. So I guess it's just going to be timing belt/tensioner/idler, water pump, coolant, drive belt and spark plugs for @ $700USD.
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Thread Starter
Confused
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 4,008
Likes: 237
From: SoCal
Originally Posted by 02CL-TypeS
I need all this done. I'm @ 106,000 and do hear a ticking at idle. Is any ticking/clicking normal? Wonder how much more if would be for a valve adjustment while they are at it?
4.6 hours of labor according to this; http://www.artsautomotive.com/HondaV...Adjustment.htm
Banned
Joined: Jan 2002
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From: The Chi
Originally Posted by Dan
His take is the same as "djarovsky", since there is no excess ticking noise and the idle/driveabilty has not changed, leave them alone. So I guess it's just going to be timing belt/tensioner/idler, water pump, coolant, drive belt and spark plugs for @ $700USD.
and $700 USD sounds about right for all of those items.
Assuming the rest of the car is up to snuff, you should see the original performance come back.
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Joined: Jan 2002
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From: The Chi
Originally Posted by 02CL-TypeS
I need all this done. I'm @ 106,000 and do hear a ticking at idle. Is any ticking/clicking normal? Wonder how much more if would be for a valve adjustment while they are at it?
As I stated, a trained ear should be able to differentiate between all of the noises.
Back to a MT!
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 332
Likes: 3
From: LA, CA
how will valves out of spec cause that many problems? Mine are very loud (at 113k) and plan on doing them when I do my timing belt, but from what I have heard, better to hear your valves tick then be to tight...
I have come to the conclusion that my CL will never be quiet, I have replaced the purge solenoid valve and couldn't notice any reduction in noise.
I have come to the conclusion that my CL will never be quiet, I have replaced the purge solenoid valve and couldn't notice any reduction in noise.
3rd Gear
Joined: Aug 2008
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As they say, if it ain't broke then don't fix it.
I am not saying that they shouldn't be inspected.....but a true inspection requires ripping apart the engine for $$ and checking the clearance. Many here have done this, only to find they were just fine or required a minute adjustment that wouldn't affect things anyway. So, hundreds of dollars were wasted to really know. Besides, how do you know they were even in spec for the past 105K miles? Should you check them say every 30K to be sure?.......of course not, as it is not practical.
A good technician should be able to tell by ear...hence the reason why Honda/Acura states "adjust only if noisy". Also keep in mind that 105K miles can be different for everyone. Has the car seen low revs (highway miles) or high revs (racing, spirited driving, etc.) for it's life? How frequent were the oil changes? The revs, and ultimately wear, are what really matter, assuming there wasn't a problem from the beginning (improper clearance from the factory) or a known history for this generation (i.e. like the early CRVs with tight valves).
If they were loose, you would hear it with a trained ear and stethoscope
If they were tight, you would have idle and other driveability problems.
My advice is to find someone with a trained ear and save your money for $4+ gas.
Just my two cents......use your own judgement and pay for the peace of mind if you really need it.
Good luck!
I am not saying that they shouldn't be inspected.....but a true inspection requires ripping apart the engine for $$ and checking the clearance. Many here have done this, only to find they were just fine or required a minute adjustment that wouldn't affect things anyway. So, hundreds of dollars were wasted to really know. Besides, how do you know they were even in spec for the past 105K miles? Should you check them say every 30K to be sure?.......of course not, as it is not practical.
A good technician should be able to tell by ear...hence the reason why Honda/Acura states "adjust only if noisy". Also keep in mind that 105K miles can be different for everyone. Has the car seen low revs (highway miles) or high revs (racing, spirited driving, etc.) for it's life? How frequent were the oil changes? The revs, and ultimately wear, are what really matter, assuming there wasn't a problem from the beginning (improper clearance from the factory) or a known history for this generation (i.e. like the early CRVs with tight valves).
If they were loose, you would hear it with a trained ear and stethoscope
If they were tight, you would have idle and other driveability problems.
My advice is to find someone with a trained ear and save your money for $4+ gas.
Just my two cents......use your own judgement and pay for the peace of mind if you really need it.
Good luck!
To the OP. I would take it in and have them checked. You would be surprised at the difference you will notice for under $200.
Intermediate
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 47
Likes: 0
From: Wisconsin
totally agree with turbovert, I'm also a honda/acura trained mechanic and all acura's engines are high maintence. Basiclly if you don't do your recomended serivce and checks your just asking for problems You bought an Acura, be prepared to pay for it in service. We had a guy come in with a 2002 MDX With over 300000 miles but and if I didn't look at the RO or the dash I could've easily thought that the engine had only 100000 on it, that's how great this thing was running. Granted he was religous about his maintence and followed the maintence schedule to the T, it just goes to show you how long these engines can last if properly maintained.
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,837
Likes: 24
From: Mt. Lebanon
Thats gotta be some of the WORST advice EVER. Im a technician myself and if you can tell by noise they are way out of adjustment so that is a very bad way to do things. Vtec motors are higher maintence than other motors and people should know this before buying one. I would have them checked at least ever 50k if not 30k. You should really not be spreading this misinformation as it is going to lead people to not do the routine maintence that needs to be done.
To the OP. I would take it in and have them checked. You would be surprised at the difference you will notice for under $200.
To the OP. I would take it in and have them checked. You would be surprised at the difference you will notice for under $200.
Ha, a valve adjustment every 30k miles, you must be tight for work and want people throwing their money out the window.
And talking about the 3.2 as "high maintence"(lol) you realize that I can go 15k miles on a synthetic oil change, I just changed my timing belt at 150k miles and I floor my car every chance I have.
Please tell me, I would like to know how our engines are "high maintence"
My lady has the 3.5 vq and you can't push that car past 7k miles on a synthetic oil changes without the oil being shot to hell. And those timing chains are shit after 100k miles, they get loud and you start losing performance.
I honestly can't believe you are spreading misinformation like this.
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,837
Likes: 24
From: Mt. Lebanon
totally agree with turbovert, I'm also a honda/acura trained mechanic and all acura's engines are high maintence. Basiclly if you don't do your recomended serivce and checks your just asking for problems You bought an Acura, be prepared to pay for it in service. We had a guy come in with a 2002 MDX With over 300000 miles but and if I didn't look at the RO or the dash I could've easily thought that the engine had only 100000 on it, that's how great this thing was running. Granted he was religous about his maintence and followed the maintence schedule to the T, it just goes to show you how long these engines can last if properly maintained.
Either way, you are an idiot to if you think these engines have to be babied to make it over 200k miles. I would love to see the stat on how many Acura engines have gone out because they failed to get a valve adjustment...
Banned
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 214
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From: The Chi
Thats gotta be some of the WORST advice EVER. Im a technician myself and if you can tell by noise they are way out of adjustment so that is a very bad way to do things. Vtec motors are higher maintence than other motors and people should know this before buying one. I would have them checked at least ever 50k if not 30k. You should really not be spreading this misinformation as it is going to lead people to not do the routine maintence that needs to be done.
To the OP. I would take it in and have them checked. You would be surprised at the difference you will notice for under $200.
To the OP. I would take it in and have them checked. You would be surprised at the difference you will notice for under $200.
There are plenty of posts on this forum and the TL forum from folks who have checked the clearance at 105K and found it was a waste of time and money. If you are doing proper maintenance, then I wouldn't expect any issues or surprises. Adjust them when you really need it. How is this misinformation? I think you guys need to read my post again....pause for a few seconds....and then really think about it.
Also, I disagree that VTEC motors are higher maintenance. Show me where you need to do anything special or different than other engines (change oil, adjust valves when needed, change plugs, timing belt, etc.).
Banned
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 214
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From: The Chi
I can't believe you just bashed DJ like that when he is actually right and you are wrong.
Ha, a valve adjustment every 30k miles, you must be tight for work and want people throwing their money out the window.
And talking about the 3.2 as "high maintence"(lol) you realize that I can go 15k miles on a synthetic oil change, I just changed my timing belt at 150k miles and I floor my car every chance I have.
Please tell me, I would like to know how our engines are "high maintence"
My lady has the 3.5 vq and you can't push that car past 7k miles on a synthetic oil changes without the oil being shot to hell. And those timing chains are shit after 100k miles, they get loud and you start losing performance.
I honestly can't believe you are spreading misinformation like this.
Ha, a valve adjustment every 30k miles, you must be tight for work and want people throwing their money out the window.
And talking about the 3.2 as "high maintence"(lol) you realize that I can go 15k miles on a synthetic oil change, I just changed my timing belt at 150k miles and I floor my car every chance I have.
Please tell me, I would like to know how our engines are "high maintence"
My lady has the 3.5 vq and you can't push that car past 7k miles on a synthetic oil changes without the oil being shot to hell. And those timing chains are shit after 100k miles, they get loud and you start losing performance.
I honestly can't believe you are spreading misinformation like this.
What dealership do these techs work at, so we don't go there?
Banned
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 214
Likes: 0
From: The Chi
totally agree with turbovert, I'm also a honda/acura trained mechanic and all acura's engines are high maintence. Basiclly if you don't do your recomended serivce and checks your just asking for problems You bought an Acura, be prepared to pay for it in service. We had a guy come in with a 2002 MDX With over 300000 miles but and if I didn't look at the RO or the dash I could've easily thought that the engine had only 100000 on it, that's how great this thing was running. Granted he was religous about his maintence and followed the maintence schedule to the T, it just goes to show you how long these engines can last if properly maintained.
Intermediate
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 47
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From: Wisconsin
Alright so how many people on here are actually honda/acura trained? If not don't be saying that I'm spreading misinformation when all I'm stating is what I've been been taught and what I've seen and experienced in the field. Sure I've seen people go 5 10 or even 15k over service intervals but I sure as hell would never consider it, its just the way I am about my person vehicles. Engineers wrote these maintenance schedules for a reason.
Cold specs are as follows: intake .20-.24 mm exhaust .28-.32, they usually just loosen up a bit, however I've seen them also tighten up. It doesn't take much to start making noise though. As for exact specs on what I've seen I can't really remember how out of spec would start to make noise but like I said before It doesn't take much. I've seen them noisy at 30k and quiet as hell at 100k it really depends how the vehicle is driven and maintained. Also yes it takes a trained ear to hear but if you have a access to a mechanics stethoscope use it, its the best and the easiest to pinpoint what exactly is making noise. Its also one of the more inexpensive tools out there so even the people who are not that mechanically inclined can check for this.
What I meant by high maintenance engine is that if the maintenance schedule is followed (by an Acura dealer) it will get expensive as suppose to a domestic vehicle of the same size and engine layout.
If anyone wants this procedure sent to them I'd be more than happy to.
Cold specs are as follows: intake .20-.24 mm exhaust .28-.32, they usually just loosen up a bit, however I've seen them also tighten up. It doesn't take much to start making noise though. As for exact specs on what I've seen I can't really remember how out of spec would start to make noise but like I said before It doesn't take much. I've seen them noisy at 30k and quiet as hell at 100k it really depends how the vehicle is driven and maintained. Also yes it takes a trained ear to hear but if you have a access to a mechanics stethoscope use it, its the best and the easiest to pinpoint what exactly is making noise. Its also one of the more inexpensive tools out there so even the people who are not that mechanically inclined can check for this.
What I meant by high maintenance engine is that if the maintenance schedule is followed (by an Acura dealer) it will get expensive as suppose to a domestic vehicle of the same size and engine layout.
If anyone wants this procedure sent to them I'd be more than happy to.
Banned
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 214
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From: The Chi
Alright so how many people on here are actually honda/acura trained? If not don't be saying that I'm spreading misinformation when all I'm stating is what I've been been taught and what I've seen and experienced in the field. Sure I've seen people go 5 10 or even 15k over service intervals but I sure as hell would never consider it, its just the way I am about my person vehicles. Engineers wrote these maintenance schedules for a reason.
Cold specs are as follows: intake .20-.24 mm exhaust .28-.32, they usually just loosen up a bit, however I've seen them also tighten up. It doesn't take much to start making noise though. As for exact specs on what I've seen I can't really remember how out of spec would start to make noise but like I said before It doesn't take much. I've seen them noisy at 30k and quiet as hell at 100k it really depends how the vehicle is driven and maintained. Also yes it takes a trained ear to hear but if you have a access to a mechanics stethoscope use it, its the best and the easiest to pinpoint what exactly is making noise. Its also one of the more inexpensive tools out there so even the people who are not that mechanically inclined can check for this.
What I meant by high maintenance engine is that if the maintenance schedule is followed (by an Acura dealer) it will get expensive as suppose to a domestic vehicle of the same size and engine layout.
If anyone wants this procedure sent to them I'd be more than happy to.
Cold specs are as follows: intake .20-.24 mm exhaust .28-.32, they usually just loosen up a bit, however I've seen them also tighten up. It doesn't take much to start making noise though. As for exact specs on what I've seen I can't really remember how out of spec would start to make noise but like I said before It doesn't take much. I've seen them noisy at 30k and quiet as hell at 100k it really depends how the vehicle is driven and maintained. Also yes it takes a trained ear to hear but if you have a access to a mechanics stethoscope use it, its the best and the easiest to pinpoint what exactly is making noise. Its also one of the more inexpensive tools out there so even the people who are not that mechanically inclined can check for this.
What I meant by high maintenance engine is that if the maintenance schedule is followed (by an Acura dealer) it will get expensive as suppose to a domestic vehicle of the same size and engine layout.
If anyone wants this procedure sent to them I'd be more than happy to.
http://www.in.honda.com/Rjanisis/pubs/TS/BTS050802.PDF
I'm also curious as to what would cause them to tighten up. I would think valvetrain wear on the rocker arm and camshaft lobes would be the main cause of them to loosen (which would then make noise).
My car is at 103,000 and my engine was noisy as hell. I just got my valves adjusted and the difference is night and day. No more ridiculous ticking!!! My car sounds normal, no longer reminiscent of a diesel engine. My only regret is that I should have gotten it done sooner, like 30k miles sooner. That being said, I don't think you can say that they adjustment must be done every 30k miles, it should be done as needed. In my case, I needed it alot sooner than later.
Suzuka Master
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,863
Likes: 439
Alright so how many people on here are actually honda/acura trained? If not don't be saying that I'm spreading misinformation when all I'm stating is what I've been been taught and what I've seen and experienced in the field. Sure I've seen people go 5 10 or even 15k over service intervals but I sure as hell would never consider it, its just the way I am about my person vehicles. Engineers wrote these maintenance schedules for a reason.
Cold specs are as follows: intake .20-.24 mm exhaust .28-.32, they usually just loosen up a bit, however I've seen them also tighten up. It doesn't take much to start making noise though. As for exact specs on what I've seen I can't really remember how out of spec would start to make noise but like I said before It doesn't take much. I've seen them noisy at 30k and quiet as hell at 100k it really depends how the vehicle is driven and maintained. Also yes it takes a trained ear to hear but if you have a access to a mechanics stethoscope use it, its the best and the easiest to pinpoint what exactly is making noise. Its also one of the more inexpensive tools out there so even the people who are not that mechanically inclined can check for this.
What I meant by high maintenance engine is that if the maintenance schedule is followed (by an Acura dealer) it will get expensive as suppose to a domestic vehicle of the same size and engine layout.
If anyone wants this procedure sent to them I'd be more than happy to.
Cold specs are as follows: intake .20-.24 mm exhaust .28-.32, they usually just loosen up a bit, however I've seen them also tighten up. It doesn't take much to start making noise though. As for exact specs on what I've seen I can't really remember how out of spec would start to make noise but like I said before It doesn't take much. I've seen them noisy at 30k and quiet as hell at 100k it really depends how the vehicle is driven and maintained. Also yes it takes a trained ear to hear but if you have a access to a mechanics stethoscope use it, its the best and the easiest to pinpoint what exactly is making noise. Its also one of the more inexpensive tools out there so even the people who are not that mechanically inclined can check for this.
What I meant by high maintenance engine is that if the maintenance schedule is followed (by an Acura dealer) it will get expensive as suppose to a domestic vehicle of the same size and engine layout.
If anyone wants this procedure sent to them I'd be more than happy to.
Last edited by YeuEmMaiMai; Nov 23, 2008 at 08:41 PM.
Senior Moderator
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 35,218
Likes: 15
From: Swansea, MA
Mine have been making a racket for awhile.... Had a honda tech do some work on the car last week (brakes) and he said I need 'em adjusted, but that there's no rush... Probably have the valve adjusted when he does the timing belt...
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