i took a certified used '03 CL 6-speed for a spin last night. i'm disappointed and confused. i'm hoping some of you here can help me out. the car i drove had 20K miles on it. it seemed to be in reasonable shape overall. not perfect, but consistent w/ a 1 - 2 yr old car w/ 20K miles.

here's my "issues"......

1st, the clutch. what a joke. the clutch in this car was fully engaged at only 1/4" off the floor. the sales guy claims its normal for this car. i don't believe it. it like a digital clutch. its either engaged or disengaged. instantly. no in-between. the clutch engagenment window on this car has to measured with a micrometer. it should have a good inch or 2 of travel. if all of the CL 6-speed clutches are this touchy acura has done a very poor job. with the clutch in the car i drove i'd never be able to get the car moving in snow or ice. much less keep it moving if i ever had to shift gears. i'd spin the tires at every shift. if i could get it moving to begin with. i drive a manual every day. i know what i'm doing. i've driven manuals for almost 30 years. all types. hydraulic and pre-hydraulic. econo-cars, sports cars, family cars, light trucks, heavy trucks, trucks which require double clutching (unfortunately). i've never run into one with this short an engagement window. are all the 6-speeds this touchy? or did i just drive a car with a bad clutch?

2nd, the gear ratios & gate positions. the trans gates are very closely spaced. i was never sure what gear i was really in. i'm sure this is something you get used to in time. but..... since 3rd gear is immediately adjacent to 6th i was a little afraid to ease the shift lever towards the right when shifting from 5th to 6th. i missed twice and got 4th instead. since i was traveling under 60 mph i didn't over rev the engine. i think reverse should be immediately adjacent to 1st instead. if i miss 1st and get reverse i don't think i'll do much damage (except if i'm in a hurry and go the wrong direction and crash at low speed). if i miss 6th and hit reverse its over. do any of you who drive these regularly hit 4th when you're aiming for 6th? do you worry about getting reverse when aiming for 6th? or am i just paranoid?????

also, i found what is labeled as 1st gear completely worthless. the gear is WAY too tall for this car. i can't think of any purpose for what's labeled as 1st gear. maybe you're supposed to use it to tow your yacht??? 2nd gear is a much better 1st gear for this car. so maybe its really a 5 speed with two 1st gears. but one is an "underdrive" 1st gear. i couldn't figure out what good it is. i also found reverse to be a problem as well. but maybe both of these comments are due to the over-sensitive clutch??? do the rest of you really use 1st? do find backing into and out of parking spaces or the garage high anxiety maneuvers?

3rd, the engine. i expected better performance than my '96 accord 4-banger (pre-vtec 4-valve per cylinder). my expectations were quickly dashed. the CL type S is slower. the accord i4 is much quicker from 60 to 80. i think 0 to 60 speeds are about the same. maybe within 1/2 second or so. but i couldn't believe how slow the car was from 60 to 80. the i4 accord goes 60 to 80 for passing in a blink. from 60 to 100 in 2 blinks. the engine revs to red-line and the rev limiter kicks in almost immediately. i floored the CL in both 5th and 6th gears and it built revs VERY slowly. it never got above 4000 or so in 2 attempts. i wanted to check the cars passing abilities. is this normal? or again, did i just drive a poor example of this car? if this is typical of the engine's performance the best mod i can think of is to replace the CL with an accord 4-banger. this is nuts!

any insight the rest of you can provide would be appreciated. after this drive i'm convinced a 5th gen accord coupe ('98 - '02) is a much better car. but this doesn't make any sense.

thanks in advance for your help.

 

Wow. That's quite an uncharacteristic review of the CLS6spd.

I'll let the CLS6spd owners comment on clutch and engagement points, as I've only test driven and don't own. I can say that the clutch to me felt wonderful when I drove it.

With regards to the closeness of the gears... The gearbox is very close for the gears. It just takes some practice on your part to get used to it. I personally loved the feel of the gears in the car. Never missed. However, there is a lockout mechanism for accidentally putting the car in reverse when moving. It simply can't happen. I bet if you had the car for a week, you'll be singing a different turn with regards to gear spacing, etc.


As to the power... You're nuts. The car has some serious scoot. 5th and 6th gears are more crusing gears, but are still passable in every sense. I dunno. Your perception just be off or something. Dump it into fourth or third, if you want more passing power. I promise the car will happily move for you. :P

 

Whoa the CLS6 felt the same 0-60 as your 5th Gen Accord I4 and faster in the top end? Something is now right here.

 

Wow, what a reaction! I don't know where to start. If you are able to give the clutch some time, you will relaize why it was designed this way, and love it.
I don't disagree with your assessment of the clutch, but it doesn't mean it is faulty, it is just different and more speed oriented than on other cars.
I agree that first gear is a little too tall, and at first the gears are a little tricky to find, BUT once you get used to it, it's a very sweet shifter. I think you are just used to other shifters, the CL is one of the best setups I've ever driven.
5th and 6th gears are not passing gears, but I did easily pass 2 cars on the hiway once and relaized I was in 6th gear.
I think you need to take some more time to acclimate to this car.
I agree that 1st gear is too tall, and the gears take a while to learn, but they even guide you into each gear itself, 2nd moves right into 3rd.
I think you meed to give it a chance, it's a beautiful setup if you let it do it;s thing. I think your experience with other shifters is effecting you seeing how really great this shifter is. Only once I think are better is the S2000, and maybe the NSX. Much better than the BMW 5 speeds I've driven.
I think you need to calm down a little and let the car do it's thing for you. be patient, it pays off big time!

 

I'm pretty sure it won't let you go into R if it will hurt the car... I think I read somewhere there's something electronic that prevents it. The big killer for most ppl in the 6spd is going from 3rd to 2nd instead of 4th at high RPMs.

 

Either that car is totally fucked up or you are an awful driver. No way a 4 banger Accord is quicker than a CLS 6MT.

 

carquest

Are you sure you drove a 6 speed CLS?

Your comments you made are not consitant of other reviews of the 6 speed CLS. The clutch is like that on this car. You get used to it. Simple as that. Same with the gear spacing. That's what close ratio transmissions are. This car has a reverse lockout so there's no way to hit R while tring to get 6th. For your comments on the gearing. Not sure what you mean by tall. This car likes to be reved high since the TQ is a bit lacking at lower RPM's. Maybe your just not used to that? The car is way faster then a 4 banger accord in everyway.
I guess it is possiable the car suffered from some problem too. If you can find another to drive you'd have something to compare.

 

Especially considering his previous car did not have VTEC..
I also went from a 1996 Accord LX to a "auto" CLS with 60k on it and I did not have the same review. When you race someone you will see the differnce that the Accord can't do.. Dont' know what else to tell you..

 

:noob:



The clutch does take a bit of getting used to, but know I love it

 

I would definately take a second drive in the car.

I have never missed a gear in the car although this is my very first stick.

As far as the clutch, I know in the 03civic I drove and an older del sol it felt like my foot was completely off the clutch before it engaged, so I can see this being something different.

60-80 should be done in 3rd gear, no reason to use any other gear since you can get to about 87 in 3rd.

If it feels slow have the actuator looked at since there are people who report a problem with the speed when this goes.

I am sure someone with a 6speed will drive down and let you get a different feel for the car. I would but need to cut back my driving...

 

Carquest…..

Pardon my French, but something’s definitely FUCKED-UP with that car.
I don’t know if you’re exaggerating with the 1/4” engagement thing, but that’s crazy.
It DOES engage close to the floor, maybe 2-3 inches, but nowhere near 1/4”.

The gates are extremely close, but you’ll learn to love this after a couple of days.
I’ve been driving stick since 1985 and this is the best manual tranny car I’ve ever owned.

The reverse lockout has been already covered.
There’s a mechanical “block” that slides into place that makes it impossible to engage “R” once the car is rolling.

Shawn S

 

I should have just posted 2 words in response to your testdrive.-
'Operator Error'.

I admit it took me most of a month to do smooth shifts, and I've owned plenty of shifters, the last being a Legend Coupe.
But now I absolutely love this shifter. When I take to the dealer service department for something and they can't drive it either!! They think they know everythig about the cars they service and most can not even get it out of first, much less do it without killing the engine, I just love that!
It's a skill to drive this car the way it was intended, and it takes a little time. Try to do a few test drives and allow this car to show you, rather than you show it. If you just lightly row the shifter it falls effortlessly into gear. If you try too hard at making it do what you think it should then it doesn't work and you're sticking it in all the gears, the shifter almost shifts itself if you let it. I admit the clutch engagement is the hardest thing for newbies to adjust too, but when you do, watch out!
Try to experience this car rather than remembering how other cars worked.
No, it's not your Daddy's Accord!

 

 

Carquest - your name says it all-
QUEST -The act or an instance of seeking or pursuing something; a search.

Your quest is just beginning, but keep pursuing what you want, I did and luckily I found it in this car.

I guess you struck a nerve because the things you hated most about the 6 speed are EXACTLY the things I love about this car, and make this car stand out among all the cars I've driven, this includes the Infiniti G35 coupe, & the BMW 330 coupe 5 speed.
IF, you give this car some time to understand how it works and still don't like it, I can support that, but after one inexperienced drive, there is more to learn in your quest. Thanks for asking us for help, we are 'biased experts'!!
thsi car was not what you expected, and in that we agree. I didn't expect so much as I got.

good luck on your pursuit.

 

I test drove a 6-speed CLS about a month ago and I agree that the CLS has the narrowest clutch engagement point in any car that I have driven. I found giving the car a little bit of gas while shifting smoothed things out considerably. It would probably take me a month to get to the point where I could consistenly shift smoothly.

 

I too had issues with the clutch at first. Way different than an RSX-S (and boy, does THAT manual have some serious issues, grinding 2nd gear constantly). But you will get used to it.

Everybody has covered everything pretty thuroughly except for one thing: the shifter. Let me explain this to you.

First and second: you have to actively apply pressure to the left.

Third and fourth: This is the default position of the shift lever. Just push forward, or pull back.

Fifth and sixth: You have to actively apply pressure to the right.

And I agree with Shawn. Best manual trans I have ever had.

Reverse: (by the way, watch the passenger side rear view mirror when selected AFTER the car is started: parking aid to help you see the curb)

Reverse gear CAN be inadvertantly engaged, but you would really have to be bone headed to do it. Page 199 of the manual:

"Your car has a reverse lockout so you cannot accidentally shift to Reverse from Neutral or any other driving position when the vehicle speed exceeds 7-9 mph (12-14 km/h)."

So it CAN be done. But if you can accidentally engage reverse after shifting out of first, I recommend that your parents relieve you of not only the CL keys, and also ban you from the handeling of any sharp or even blunt objects.

 

is it a coincidence you drove the car on 4/20???


yes the clutch is weird, it has a very small engagement and takes a really long time to get used to, like 2 days instead of 2 tries...

For some reason the cl does not seem amazingly fast to me compared to my old accord either in fifth gear

"seem" is the operative word, the cl will blow the f-ing doors off of any accord 4 cylinder

and if you were doing under sixty and are worried about shifting into fourth, welcome to the high revving world of honda, take a class, drop third straight to 80 and then shift, dont bog the engine in fifth or sixth trying to hit 60 mph... downshift, its what makes the manual fun

i have never even come close to accidentally hitting reverse, and the gearing seems pretty on to me, in fact i wish 6th was more of an overdrive with less power to save on gas...

 

wow! thanks!.

sounds like i did strike a nerve. didn't mean to insult everyone. just trying to figure this thing out.

so, the clutch is supposed to be "oversensitive"? has anyone driven this in snow or ice? seems impossible. i also found that you have to give it some gas to get it moving w/out bogging the engine. i never stalled it, but i almost put it through the car dealer's front window when taking it out of the parking space. i don't think he was impressed.

so 5th & 6th are the wrong gears for high speed passing in a hurry? 4th or 3rd are the way to get it moving quickly when at speed? i was afraid to drop the gears down any lower than 5th above 60 mph. is this how you all drive? drop into 4th or 3rd on the highway for rapid acceleration? if so, i'm game.

good to know there's a reverse lock-out. if i try one again i won't worry about 5th to 6th shifts at all. just push it towards the right and back. should go right where its supposed to.

thanks for the "driving lessons". if i drive another i'll let you know if i'm more impressed.

 

I have driven the CL on snow, very simple, nothing to worry about. And if you get snow tires it will be even easier.

1st - 35mph
2nd - 60mph
3rd - 85mph
4th - 120mph
5th - 140mph
6th - 147mph (or whatever top speed is)

I never went over 140mph in the car, but it is definately fun. With 20k on it, redline shouldn't be a problem in the car, but if you want good gas mileage, nothing over 3500rpm.

 

i drove my cl in snow and ice all winter, no problems

the clutch is weird, thats just how it is, i don't necessarily like it but it really isnt that hard to get used to

this car likes gas, in fact my 6spd loves it

without the exact numbers in front of me i believe 3rd will run into the mid 80mph range, i think i had to shift to fourth on the track to hit mid 90 trap speeds so to answer your question ...

drop it, 4th 3rd, shit hit second if you are only doing 30-40, and run that thing up, it should already be broken in, you will feel the power kicking in hard where your accord started to fall off...

good luck...

 

Snow=no problem at all.

As long as you keep in mind you are driving a 3,470 pound car.

 

I have to say "wow" too. Rather surprised to hear this sort of review.

* Clutch: The car you test drove sounds like its clutch was out of adjustment. The engagement point should be much higher. Also, the clutch is suppose to be self-adjusting. So I suspect there was something wrong with the clutch. However, with a properly adjusted clutch, the clutch does take a little to get use to. But it's much better than some older Porsches I've driven.

* Shift gate and pattern: Welcome to a six speed MT. It's probably one of the best out there.

* 1st gear: this is a first. The ratios between each gear in the CLS 6MT are almost perfect. Based on your earlier comments, you must have started out in 2nd gear.

* Performance: Maybe your test car had serious engine problems. The CLS 6MT is very peppy. The CLS 6MT would blow the doors off of a '96 accord 4-banger like it's standing still.

*Reverse: you can't go into reverse when moving forward. At least that's what the factory specs say.

I think you had better find another test car. Apparently, you had a really beat up 6MT or you don't know how to drive stick properly.

 

You might have found a bad one ... Most cluches have that 1 to 2 inch dead spot at the floor (mine does). Someone must have "Adjusted" the clutch play on that one. As for the rest, once you've driven the car for about a day, you can easily find the proper gear. It took me about a month to get use to engaging 2nd gear smoothly. As for performance, it's a rocket. You have to go to a "True" or "Pure" sports car to find better performance. Even then, the CLS will kill all but the best ... and we're talking just stock!

 

When i first got my 6sp, the clutch was really different than my 96 Accord. I had my fair share of jerky shifts, but now it almost scares me how smooth shifting is. I think since you can almost pivot your heel on the floor and not have to hold it up in the air, once you get used to it, its a better set up than most.

I really like the gear spacing too, they seem to know where to go. Depending on what kind of highway, you can pass people in 3rd, 4th, 5th or 6th. You don't have to worry about hurting anything unless you hit 1st or 2nd!

I go to school in Milwaukee and live even further up north. Snow isn't an issue in this car. Once in a while I would have to start in 2nd, but not much. Plus the LSD helps alot.

I had a 96 Accord VTEC (5sp) before my CL 6sp, it is much much much faster!!

Try a different car, maybe something was wrong with the car, maybe you were nervous about "driving" the car on your 1st test drive. Give another one a shot or even the same one, this car is definetly an aqquired skill to drive, but once you get it, you'll love it.

 

They're just giving friendly advice If you insulted someone we'd be hunting you down with pitchforks and torches

Glad you're keeping an open mind about the car, the CL-S really is an awesome car. You'll love it if you buy it

 

Seems like just adding one more reply to an otherwise excellent thread, but, A few months ago I suddenly realized: "Hey, I just have to press the clutch in about one-third of the way down (in it's total travel length...) tap the shifter a bit and it's like sooooooo smooth. Reason being that you really have to "learn this clutch" because it's different. But different in a good way. Ditto to all above replies to original post.

 

I live in New Castle DE...if you want, you can take a spin in mine. You may have just had a POS car. Mine only has 3000 miles.

 

i haven't completely given up on this thing yet. i contacted the guys at bradley acura in va. the web site claims they have NEW red/tan 6 speed in stock. i'm trying to schedule another test drive this weekend.

but since i was a little bored i looked up the gear ratios for the CLs. you guys probably have them committed to memory but for those of us who don't here ya' go......


Gear Type-S/CL-P Auto Type-S 6-Speed

Reverse 1.846:1 4.008:1 (WOW!!!)
1st 2.563 3.933 (WOW!!!)
2nd 1.552 2.478 (= Auto 1st)
3rd 1.021 1.700
4th 0.653 1.250
5th 0.470 0.976
6th - 0.771 (= Auto 3.5th)


i still think the 6-speed 1st and reverse are too tall for this car. it may also explain why you suggest shifting to 3rd or 4th for rapid acceleration at highway speeds.

but i'm brain damaged and i'm going to give one another try anyway. i stuck on the look of the car and the fact that its a coupe.

 

sorry. the last post removed my strategically placed spaces.

here's the Type-S/CL-P Auto ratios

Reverse 1.846:1
1st 2.563
2nd 1.552
3rd 1.021
4th 0.653
5th 0.470
6th -


here's the Type-S 6-Speed ratios

Reverse 4.008:1 (WOW!!!)
1st 3.933 (WOW!!!)
2nd 2.478 (= Auto 1st)
3rd 1.700
4th 1.250
5th 0.976
6th 0.771 (= Auto 3.5th)

 

comparing the individual ratios isn't completely relevant as the final drive is different. Below is a quick tabel I had previously done to compare the overall ratios:

 

damn, the 6 speed only goes up to 206, i am trading mine in for an automatic, all about the top speed baby...

 

cool. i couldn't find any info on "final drive". only individual gears. i figured the final drive would be similar but the table above shows they're completely different. otherwise the final ratios wouldn't be as close as they are.

 

I agree with the comments except for driving in the snow. Once you get going you are okay, but you better start off in second or find it pretty quick.

I am a pretty good driver in the snow, but getting going from a stop was challenging! Next Winter = snow tires!

03 Silver CLS
Icebox

 

The below table shows the CLS-5AT pulls strong to 115 MPH (on my tires and on dyno, it is up to 107 MPH)

and , for a 6-speed, it pulls strong up to 127 MPH.

Nashua.

 

it's interesting that you prefer second gear for a start, but say that first is too tall. If first is too tall, then second will be way too tall, since it is "taller" than first. ??? I think your complaint is that first is too short - and that is simply not true.

 

It is for me right now. I can't go WOT in either 1st or 2nd without spinning.

 

carquest,

I don't think I can add anything, but ...

Give the car another chance, but you will have to change your approach to driving this car. The clutch engagement is very low and quick indeed and when driving slowly you have to have a light touch to keep it smooth. You will realize the benefit of this design when you accelerate very hard. The engine is so powerful that a strong and quick engagement is absolutely necessary to pull hard on such a heavy car. The design is bang on for this car.

I live in Canada and ski over 35 days a year. I drive through snow quite a lot. The clutch is no problem in the winter. The stock tires are a problem. Winter tires are highly recommended.

When I test drove this car, the dealer gave me a ride first. I was appalled at his rough, jolting shifts. He had "amateur" written all over his skills. I truly had no problems with the clutch (I have a light touch and the CLS clutch suits me well), but I did miss gears a few times as I never drove a 6 spd setup before. The mistake I made is not going through the gears while stopped to get the feel of it before driving. Honestly, this should be your last worry. You will get used to the gears very, very quickly.

Good luck!

 

The clutch does have a very narrow engagement point, that is a common complaint. It makes the car kinda difficult to drive smoothly all the time. It is even more strange for me because my other car I drive is a mustang, and the clutch is alot stiffer but the engagement is much more progressive. It takes me a couple minutes of driving to relearn the CL-S' clutch after havent driven it for awhile.

The shifter is spot-on if you ask me. I love the short throws, low effort movement, and how it just falls into the gates. I dislike the 1st gear lockout that wont let you go into 1st unless going less than like 10mph, but trust me it WILL NOT go into reverse once you going forward. Hell, even if you're rolling forward 1-2mph it can be a bitch to get into reverse.

Like previously posted you have to push it slightly to the right when going from 5th to 6th. Alot of people tend to pull the shifter towards them when shifting downwards, and this would maybe cause you to go into 4th instead of 6th. I have grabbed 3rd a couple times when I meant to grab 5th, but that would only be a problem if I was shifting out of 4th at redline. That would mean I was going like 125mph, and at that speed you better make absolutely sure you know what gear you're going into next.

And 5th and 6th are both techincally overdrive gears, so they are not to be used for aggressive passing. I'll downshift into 3rd if I'm going less than 85mph and if I really want 100% acceleration. Usually 4th is perfectly powerful for a highway pass or merge. Remember even if you're going 60mph you can safely go into 2nd gear, but youre gonna be basically at redline and have to shift into 3rd a milliasecond after giving it some gas. It takes some time to know what gear to downshift into. I find myself just leaving it in 6th while on the expressway. At 80mph its at 2500 rpm anyways, and its got enough power to get up to 90mph decently quickly.

 

The CL6 is the first and only manual I have ever driven. I couldn't even drive it off the lot myself. Everyone who has driven my car says "man...what the %$# did you do to the clutch?!".

As I am learning from this thread that's just how this car is. My pop who drives everything from trucks to his own bimmer says every clutch is different...its not bad... just different. In any case the CL6 is the only manual I know so maybe it was a good thing I had no other prior experience. As far as I'm concerned this is how its supposed to feel. Learning to move off and shift from 1st to 2nd smoothly was a bit of a pain but after that I'm lovin it It almost feels like the car wants you to drive it fast......

 

The 6spd CLS's clutch and first two gears are a but obnoxious and take some getting used to (if you are willing to get used it). As for the performance though, my guess is the IMRC actuator wasn't working on that CLS.