Seattle Cl-S

Here are the results of the article. Not too bad, considering the source. They seemed quite fair and tried to stay impartial. Lets not turn this into another 17 page thread.

Seattle Cl-S

Notice the 5-60 time for the CL is quicker...damn those stock tires!!! The BMW runs 245/40/17's on the rears.

The "price as tested" difference is $7448...the CL had Navi.

According to C&D, it pretty much came down to styling...which is in the eye of the beholder.

tmk70

The car got fucked on styling...I think CL's look great, but there is something to be said for that German look and design!

Nicky Pass

That is soooooooo close. The CL should have won because it is 8K cheaper

jts1207

how is the car .3 seconds faster 0-100 yet .2 secs slower in th quarter............i really would like to know ...thanks

6spdCL-S

Because of the trap speed. The CL-S pulls harder from 80-100 mph.

Zapata

They should've tied or acura should've won!!!! The acura got a bullshit score when it came to the gizmos etc., The review raves about the BMW stability control etc., but NEVER says anything about the HLSD that the Acura offers and the BMW doesn't. All the stuff that the acura didn't do was pointed out and all the stuff that the BMW did have was praised to no end. 7 on the Styling is also crap. Yah, the car design isn't innovative but for the consumer base that Acura is trying to get at, the design is fine. Giving a car a bad score because it isn't the most innovative in terms of body design is crap. It's not in your face but it's subtle. It's classy. The bodylines are smooth and they are congruant. It's a "safe" bet design but was the judging based on how crazy they could get?

If the winner is based on the OVERALL score then there isn't a reason why the BMW should've won. For year round driving you can't give a rational arguement for RWD over FWD. What about long term ownership and repair/maintainence costs?? Price difference affords one to "mod" the car to their comfort level.

1/4 times.....the best they could get was a 14.6???? What kind of weather were they testing in???? We saw 14.3 in average weather.

If you are doing a overall comparison, then 330ci is a great car but it's a toss up at best. Pure sports performance nod to the 300 but overall nod to the CLS.

JRock

The features&amenities is the bullshit vote. How can the CLS, which comes with just about EVERYTHING standard have a lower score than the 330 that you gotta spend an extra $10k or MORE to get all the options for?
Not to mention "Value" is clearly another category the CLS wins.

CLS wins by two points minimum. I still think the BMW is a sportier car, but if you go by their categories and voting style, the CLS wins.

joeandcarol2

Interesting that they rated the same in the handling department. Specially front drive vs rear drive. Impressive. Were there skidpad G results?

How cares who wins the overall score. I'm impressed about many of the categories...

gavriil

OK here are points that caught my attention:

1. It is obvious that the CL puts more power to the ground. You can tell that from the higher trap speed for the 1/4 mile run although! our car is 125 pounds heavier. 98mph vs. 97 mph. So at equal weights, our car would be faster maybe by 3-4 mph.

2. Top speed for the CL is WOW! high. I was surprised at that.

3. Braking. Wow we suck so bad, it is not funny. You have to have brakes to call your car a sports car. Sorry.

4. It looks like we beat the 330Ci in the skidpad. How did that happen with those tires? Imagine if the CL wore SO3s.

5. What is up with the Interior Sound levels?!? We are louder idle and par with the 330Ci in every other test. I dont count the full throttle because I was expecting our CL to be louder. No V6 sounds like ours when VTEC kicks into the tall cam lobes.

6. How come the Ci is so much more fuel efficient with those large tires? Hmmm...

7. I did not know that our CL had a smaller Wheel Base!!! I mean look at the length of these 2 cars. Also, the width is exactly par. Wow.

8. What is up with the rear interior volume/space being just 1 cubic foot larger for the CL? I thought we were way larger in the back. Wow. Still learning about my car.

9. How come our car lost in the "Driver comfort" department, when we won in "Ergonomics" as well as having 3 cubic feet more room in the front interior space department. How are C&D folks thinking about this?

10. We won in the engine deparment yet JD Powers gives all the gold medals to BMW and we dont even manage to even qualify. Wow. More evidence of how subjective this shit is. These guys write stuff, just to write stuff. Nuts...

11. Handling is tied! WOW! I thought I'd never live to see that. Par with the coupe from BMW! Wow!

12. How come we lost the "Features and Amenities"? How is the 330Ci have more features and amenities?

13. How is the value won by ONLY one point!!!!???? We are so much cheaper. I mean give me a freaking break C&D.

Smitty02CLs

My g-friend has a new 330i, it has the sport sup on it. I drove it yesterday and I must tell you all........it rides like complete total shit. Yes, it may handle a little bit better, but you feel every bumb. However, it's not as fast. I would always rather have a softer, faster car, not to mention she paid about 10k more than me and she doesn't have navi. I was glad to get back in my Cls at the end of the day. Just $.02 from someone has drives both these cars.

Driven

If it wasn't for some bias views from C&D I'd say it was at least a tie...even then, the Acura was a clear winner on many accounts.

That is weird though how they rate the 330 higher in driver comfort than the CLS. If I remember correctly, the 330 is smaller inside than the CLS. The seats are more snug too. Things that make you go...hmmmm.

Red Rider

I'm not much for conspiracy theories, but it looks like they wanted the BMW to win. Value 9 to 8, PLEASE. And styling cost 3 points. Take that out and we beat the BMW by 2 overall in the performance and amenities categories. That's a win in my book.

Shawn S

And……
They don’t have a complete option list in the article.
I don’t believe they even mention that the test Acura has the NAVI and the BMW doesn’t.
Does the Bimmer have Xenon’s, Heated Seats, Auto dimming mirror & other stuff that costs extra?

With all THAT compared, the “value” number would be even MORE skewed.

Shawn S

Zapata

Exactly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!

jts1207

i think they even chopped the interior pic of the bmw so u think it might have navi

Shawn S

Yea, I just noticed that as well.
The Acura shot shows the entire dash while the Bimmer shot is just a close up of the driver’s seat & gauges.

Shawn S

cusdaddy

I got the magazine and I did a lot of thinking about this whole "BMW favoritism" issue.

I am sure there is no conspiracy theory where BMW paid off the car magazines, but I think it may come down to this: For so long, BMW's were a step or two ahead of all their competition. Finally the competitors are catching or passing, but the car mag testers became partial to BMW's over the years. An analogy could be used around sports teams. We all have some teams for whatever reason we favor. Even if you try to be impartial, you always deep down want one team to win. I kind of see it that way with BMW's.

The entire article centered around trying to make excuses why the BMW is better, when it clearly isn't (if you factor in Value correctly: 1 point? What crap!)

And I am a little curious about the BMW acceleration figure. Why did the 1000 other review for the 330 5-speed (not 330xi) come up with 0-60 in the 6's, yet this car is miraculously .1 faster than the CL. 5.8 seconds from a non AWD 225hp engine is a bit fast. It seems like they wanted to add that extra point to try and justify their results.

I am just sick of BMW's always winning. They should just quit trying to make excuses and just say the truth: They deep down like BMW's better, and it will take a home run to dethrone the "king"

darrinb

I dont understand why it takes longer from 5-60 than from 0-60?? Do they have it in a higher gear then shift down or somethin at 5 mph??

special02blk

i agree w/ u all but have u read C%D the total points has nothing to do w/ the winner. read the disclaimer. yes the cl-s came clos ein points but it comes down to the 4 or 5 judges and how they feel. those numbers arnt based against on another it is based on a scale of 1-10 no offense but some of you need to book up and get the facts beofre you go off about somehting u only know a small amount about

cusdaddy

OH PLEASE...

I as well as most of the people here are fully aware that the overall points do not translate to a victory for either car, but we were bringing up the point that the BMW only got 1 point lower for value, yet is over 7k more for the same features.

Most of us here are car lovers and read magazines all the time. Please do not insult our intelligence

dacura

iTrader: (1)

"The entire article centered around trying to make excuses why the BMW is better"

Absolutely agreed. Like I mentioned on the other thread, the magazine really used the "personal preference" card to a great extent. They were trying really hard to cover up their bias.

But let's ignore their personal preferences and look at the hard test data. They are very comparable cars. They really should just give us data and that's it.

Crazy Bimmer

excuses excuses!!

Maximized

Magazines like C&D are enthusiast magazines, which means they like to drive hard. If you wanna read a Mag that rates according to value or specs read Consumer Reports. If you look at handling numbers, I cant fathom why the CL-S tied the 330i!!! 3.4 mph in the slalom is HUGE. Skidpad has little value IMO. All it measures is the tires grip and shows little of how the suspension is working.

The CL-S is definetly quicker than the 330i, look at those trap speeds. I think that the CL-S driver didnt have a clue on how to drive a high powered FWD car. Look at the power/weight ratios of the cars, something doesnt add up.

JZ

I don't understand the bimmers 1/4 mile time--the fastest I 've seen it reported prior to this was 14.7. Having driven this car I can tell you that I did not feel that it was a 14.3 second 1/4mile car.


Also, as others mentioned, it's interesting that we only get a single point in the value category, yet they take 3 from us in styling. That is a HUGE difference in the scoring. So, if you look at it from this perspective: $8000 in price gets us a one point advantage in the value category. Applying that to the styling question would then equate to $24,000 in better styling since they beat us by 3 points!

Can someone post the entire article?

cforez

"Why do you need six speeds... BMW gets is done with five." Bwahahaha! :shakehd:

Zapata

So what are you saying?

Shawn S

But I’m sure if the Bimmer was the one with the 6-Speed, the C&D comparison would have gone something like this:

BMW makes use of the latest technology as shown in their silky smooth 6-Speed Transmission while Acura lags behind once again with a 1980’s style 5-Speed.

Shawn S

Ashburner

haha Shawn... I agree!

I also think it is odd that they did a comparison without listing the options on each car. What kind of bull shit is that?

I just priced out a BMW 325Ci with all the options as our CL-S and it comes out to $37,006 The 330Ci comes out to $41,480.

Why aren't they comparing the CL-S to the 325? It is closer to the price of the CL. What a joke in the value category.

-Ash

cakennedy

Oh now come on...I was perfectly happy not to post in this thread because I made my points in the other thread(s) about the C&D article. But when I hear talk of conspiracy theories and blatant bias, I feel I have to respond.

The article was a very fair and even-handed piece. They don't bash the CL, and call it the best-driving FWD car they've ever tested. The 330 won by a single point, and it could have just as easily gone the other way. Think about it: there's little debate, even here, that the 330ci is not the better drive. It simply is, and you'd have trouble arguing it's not. In a comparison test, then, the question comes down to whether or not the premium for the BMW is worth it. C&D felt it was, I and tens of thousands of 330ci owners felt it was.

Of course, tens of thousands of CL owners felt it's not worth the extra price, and that's perfectly fine. You got a great car for thousands less than a 330. You should be happy, but also realize that it's possible for a person or a magazine to disagree with you and not be "paid off" by BMW.

TypeSKid

OH NO! Here's that Cakennedy guy back at it.

I'm kidding! :P


I love the 330CI, flat out love it. It is a more solid automobile than the CL, hands down.

FWD vs RWD.

What to do what to do...

TypeSKid

Damn, I didn't even notice! I just owned page 3!!!!

sejimene

ME : BMW 330Ci owner
YOU : Bitter

Shawn S

HA... HA... HA... HA... HA...

Bitter ??? Um.............NO. :shakehd:

Shawn S

BNut

Are there even tens of thousands of CL owners? :P For 2002 we are up to what, 5,700 cars sold? Hehehe...

Sorry, that was a low blow...

Maximized

Im saying if you want the better performing coupe...buy the 330ci

If you want the car with better "value"....buy a CL-S

Crazy Bimmer

thats the best statment i have ever heard!!!

tunkz

Crazysellout, why don't u wait for the 2003 model?? I know they'll start producing the 03 in July. If I were you, I would wait. I am hearing rumors about facelift and engine upgrade for 03 model. Btw, steel grey is a sharp color.


Andrew

BMW Z3 3.0
BMW 328CI
Integra GS-R

BNut

Well the changes that were made to the sedan were pretty "bleh" in my opinion. The new head lights, bleh, the new tail lights, bleh, the new rims bleh...

Crazy Bimmer

well if they do the facelift im sure it will be minor like the sedans had. Also I dont think they would put a bigger engine in, cuz dont the sedans get the change first? So that means the sedans should get the boost of power first, then a year later the coupe. Rite? Plus i hear the production for the 2003 dont start till septiber, which means i wouldnt get the car till like end of october or november. Too long to wait.

I wont get my car till Mid-july, so if before then i hear soild facts that the 330 will get more power then Ill wait it out and get the 2003. Of not, then ill just take the 2002 models. Im sure BMW will release some info before end of july. I hope.