To Build A J35A3 Short Block + J32A2 Heads??
#1
To Build A J35A3 Short Block + J32A2 Heads??
I decided I want to build a engine on the side while my cl is still running and driving, to have the least amount of down time. I can't decide what combination to build exactly. I also want to only use oem parts and keep the price to a minimum, since at the end of the day I'm still going to be spraying the hell out of the engine lol. I'm leaning towards buying a J35A3 engine since I can buy one cheap and putting my J32A2 heads on it.
The only problem I would run into from doing some research and talking to a few people is I would have to get different pistons to clear the 36mm intake valves. Does anyone know 110% I can't just keep the stock mdx pistons installed when using my J32A2 heads? I'm also going to do a few other things while I have the engine on the engine stand to make working on it easier while it's out of the car. Things like complete timing belt service, gude performance cams, supertech valve spring + retainers, porting / polishing, powder coating some parts.
Help me decide what to do people, to many choices lol!!
Here are the swap options along with brief advantage(s)/disadvantage(s):
BLOCK/HEADS (incl. manifold (upper/lower), tb)
------------------
J30A1/J30A1
advantage: no modification needed.
disadvantage: no torque until turbo/sc kicks in.
J30A1/J32A2
advantage: mid-range and top-end power
disadvantage: J30A1 pistons have to be modified to fit large J32A2 (intake) valves.
Not much torque until turbo/sc kicks in.
J32A2/J32A2
advantage: no modification needed, mid-range, top-end power.
disadvantage: torque is still ok but better than J30A1
J35A4/J30A1 (Odyssey '02-04/ '00-02 Accord V6)
advantage: no modifications needed, adequate torque, adequate mid-range
disadvantage:needed better cams, large intake valves for overal better powerband, top-end power
Option 1:
If budget is limited the solution is to swap J32A2 (CL-S/TL-S) cams into stock J30A1(Accord V6) cyl. heads (see sticky CL-S swap and Cam machining).
Option 2:
Get J32A2 (CL-S/TL-S) complete cyl. heads + IM (intake manifold)
But requires different pistons (see J35/J32 below) to clear J32A2 valves.
J35A3/J35A3 (Acura MDX '01-02), J35A4/J35A4 (Honda Odyssey '02-04)
advantage: no modifications needed, great torque, nice mid-range
disadvantage: little less air flow than J32A2 but very close.
This option looks like a good choice if getting the complete engine or even separate short block and cyl. heads/manifold due to a price. And MDX the cyl. heads are the same part # as CL-S, however intake valves and cams are different than CL-S but overall much better than pathetic AV6.
J35A1/J32A2 (Odyssey '01/CL-S '01-03)
advantage: great entire powerband and especially torque.
disadvantage: Need CL-S or RL pistons.
Note: Same options apply as listed below.
J35A3/J32A2 ('01-02 MDX/CL-S '01-03) or J35A4/J32A2 (Odyssey '02-04/CL-S '01-03)
advantage: great entire powerband and especially torque.
disadvantage: Need CL-S or RL pistons.
There are also couple options:
Option 1
With '01-02 complete MDX block or '02-04 Odyssey complete block (crank/rods/pistons) it is required to purchase 2005 Acura RL pistons (new set $50 each) This is a best option still since these pistons have clearance for large 36mm J32A2 (intake) valves thus no modification needed. Despite the fact they have higher 11.0:1 CR still even supercharger can be used here with low boost up to 7psi intercooled (assuming safe AFR). In addition, if 11:1 CR is too high for you, you can use '03 CL-S pistons with 10.5:1 CR.
Option 2
'01-03 J32A2 block (CL-S)
Required to purchase the following:
-= hondaautomotiveparts.com =-
'02-'04 Odyssey (crankshaft)
Product No. 368270 or
Honda part #13310-PGK-A00
'02-'04 Odyssey (connecting rod)
Product No. 368269 or
Honda part #13210-PGK-A00
Main bearings + rod bearings
-= acuraautomotiveparts.org =-
'03 CL-S (pistons) - 10.5:1 CR or
'05 RL (pistons) - 11.0:1 CR
pistons rings (per chosen model)
Note: Odyssey pistons do not have clearance to fit large 36mm J32A2 (intake) valves. Solution - custom job to increase valve pockets.
BTW, The only advantage to get J32A2 block is due to better cylinder sleeves to withstand heat designed for higher redline vehicle, otherwise depending on the price Odyssey or MDX block are the best bet.
Keep in mind, J35A5 '03-04 MDX will not fit on 6th gen. AV6/CL/TL/CL-S/TL-S due to different design, and looks like only for 7th gen. AV6.
Edit: The correct valve dimensions now stand as follows: incl. J30A4/J32A4
J30A1 '98-02 AV6: 34mm/29mm (intake/exhaust)
J30A4 '03+ AV6: 35mm/30mm
J32A1 '01-03' TL/CL: 34mm/30mm
J32A2 '01-03 TL-S/CL-S: 36mm/30mm
J32A4 '04+ TL: 35mm/30mm
J35A1 '99-01 Odyssey: 34mm/29mm
J35A4 '02-04 Odyssey: 35mm/30mm
The only problem I would run into from doing some research and talking to a few people is I would have to get different pistons to clear the 36mm intake valves. Does anyone know 110% I can't just keep the stock mdx pistons installed when using my J32A2 heads? I'm also going to do a few other things while I have the engine on the engine stand to make working on it easier while it's out of the car. Things like complete timing belt service, gude performance cams, supertech valve spring + retainers, porting / polishing, powder coating some parts.
Help me decide what to do people, to many choices lol!!
Here are the swap options along with brief advantage(s)/disadvantage(s):
BLOCK/HEADS (incl. manifold (upper/lower), tb)
------------------
J30A1/J30A1
advantage: no modification needed.
disadvantage: no torque until turbo/sc kicks in.
J30A1/J32A2
advantage: mid-range and top-end power
disadvantage: J30A1 pistons have to be modified to fit large J32A2 (intake) valves.
Not much torque until turbo/sc kicks in.
J32A2/J32A2
advantage: no modification needed, mid-range, top-end power.
disadvantage: torque is still ok but better than J30A1
J35A4/J30A1 (Odyssey '02-04/ '00-02 Accord V6)
advantage: no modifications needed, adequate torque, adequate mid-range
disadvantage:needed better cams, large intake valves for overal better powerband, top-end power
Option 1:
If budget is limited the solution is to swap J32A2 (CL-S/TL-S) cams into stock J30A1(Accord V6) cyl. heads (see sticky CL-S swap and Cam machining).
Option 2:
Get J32A2 (CL-S/TL-S) complete cyl. heads + IM (intake manifold)
But requires different pistons (see J35/J32 below) to clear J32A2 valves.
J35A3/J35A3 (Acura MDX '01-02), J35A4/J35A4 (Honda Odyssey '02-04)
advantage: no modifications needed, great torque, nice mid-range
disadvantage: little less air flow than J32A2 but very close.
This option looks like a good choice if getting the complete engine or even separate short block and cyl. heads/manifold due to a price. And MDX the cyl. heads are the same part # as CL-S, however intake valves and cams are different than CL-S but overall much better than pathetic AV6.
J35A1/J32A2 (Odyssey '01/CL-S '01-03)
advantage: great entire powerband and especially torque.
disadvantage: Need CL-S or RL pistons.
Note: Same options apply as listed below.
J35A3/J32A2 ('01-02 MDX/CL-S '01-03) or J35A4/J32A2 (Odyssey '02-04/CL-S '01-03)
advantage: great entire powerband and especially torque.
disadvantage: Need CL-S or RL pistons.
There are also couple options:
Option 1
With '01-02 complete MDX block or '02-04 Odyssey complete block (crank/rods/pistons) it is required to purchase 2005 Acura RL pistons (new set $50 each) This is a best option still since these pistons have clearance for large 36mm J32A2 (intake) valves thus no modification needed. Despite the fact they have higher 11.0:1 CR still even supercharger can be used here with low boost up to 7psi intercooled (assuming safe AFR). In addition, if 11:1 CR is too high for you, you can use '03 CL-S pistons with 10.5:1 CR.
Option 2
'01-03 J32A2 block (CL-S)
Required to purchase the following:
-= hondaautomotiveparts.com =-
'02-'04 Odyssey (crankshaft)
Product No. 368270 or
Honda part #13310-PGK-A00
'02-'04 Odyssey (connecting rod)
Product No. 368269 or
Honda part #13210-PGK-A00
Main bearings + rod bearings
-= acuraautomotiveparts.org =-
'03 CL-S (pistons) - 10.5:1 CR or
'05 RL (pistons) - 11.0:1 CR
pistons rings (per chosen model)
Note: Odyssey pistons do not have clearance to fit large 36mm J32A2 (intake) valves. Solution - custom job to increase valve pockets.
BTW, The only advantage to get J32A2 block is due to better cylinder sleeves to withstand heat designed for higher redline vehicle, otherwise depending on the price Odyssey or MDX block are the best bet.
Keep in mind, J35A5 '03-04 MDX will not fit on 6th gen. AV6/CL/TL/CL-S/TL-S due to different design, and looks like only for 7th gen. AV6.
Edit: The correct valve dimensions now stand as follows: incl. J30A4/J32A4
J30A1 '98-02 AV6: 34mm/29mm (intake/exhaust)
J30A4 '03+ AV6: 35mm/30mm
J32A1 '01-03' TL/CL: 34mm/30mm
J32A2 '01-03 TL-S/CL-S: 36mm/30mm
J32A4 '04+ TL: 35mm/30mm
J35A1 '99-01 Odyssey: 34mm/29mm
J35A4 '02-04 Odyssey: 35mm/30mm
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#3
3.5 psi
iTrader: (1)
i think this thread seems to have the info you need:
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...=714305&page=5
specifically this post:
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...=714305&page=5
specifically this post:
It's not that the valve reliefs were "bigger than needed," but it's a combo of a few things. The valve difference isn't actually a full mm (35.51mm vs. 36.0mm), and the J35 pistons are a lower comp so the compression deck height is larger. From the naked eye, it would appear that the valve reliefs would never clear, but the illusion is due to the dish, making the reliefs appear very small as compared to the J32A2. This is probably the reason the "myth" was spawned.
I wish I could speak about the newer J configurations, but I don't have any personal experience with them.
I wish I could speak about the newer J configurations, but I don't have any personal experience with them.
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1foxbody (12-30-2012)
#4
i think this thread seems to have the info you need:
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...=714305&page=5
specifically this post:
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...=714305&page=5
specifically this post:
#5
J-series addict
iTrader: (4)
Now you're speaking my language Fox!
What they IS TRUE, you cannot use stock j35a3 pistons with 36mm valves unless theyre notched. RL (05+) and TL-S (07-08) pistons will def clear 36mm intake valves. Although many (including myself) have denounced that the RL/TL-S pistons are forged, Acuranews.com actually says that they are...that's official too. I myself DID see, in person, casting marks on the one I ordered for that reason alone. If you're wanting to stick with OEM parts only, I'd recommend using the 09+ TL 3.5 pistons. They're forged aluminum and are around $75 cost for a standard set. But you may want to reconsider if you must use oversized pistons (.020") because they're nearly $160 per piston! If you need them, I can give you factory cylinder tolerances that you can use to determine wether or not a bore or just a hone is required. I've heard a lot of rumors on how the larger stroke J series motors develop "square" bores due to the linear force caused by the rod stroke itself on the walls. Chances are it will require boring unless you can find a low mileage unit.
As for the heads, I've heard from two trustworthy people that the factory j35a3 heads have more airflow potential than the j32a2 heads but I've never seen any flow charts to verify this. If you're looking for the cheapest route, I'd just stick with the j32a2 heads because it would cost some extra cash on enlarging the j35a3's valves.
What they IS TRUE, you cannot use stock j35a3 pistons with 36mm valves unless theyre notched. RL (05+) and TL-S (07-08) pistons will def clear 36mm intake valves. Although many (including myself) have denounced that the RL/TL-S pistons are forged, Acuranews.com actually says that they are...that's official too. I myself DID see, in person, casting marks on the one I ordered for that reason alone. If you're wanting to stick with OEM parts only, I'd recommend using the 09+ TL 3.5 pistons. They're forged aluminum and are around $75 cost for a standard set. But you may want to reconsider if you must use oversized pistons (.020") because they're nearly $160 per piston! If you need them, I can give you factory cylinder tolerances that you can use to determine wether or not a bore or just a hone is required. I've heard a lot of rumors on how the larger stroke J series motors develop "square" bores due to the linear force caused by the rod stroke itself on the walls. Chances are it will require boring unless you can find a low mileage unit.
As for the heads, I've heard from two trustworthy people that the factory j35a3 heads have more airflow potential than the j32a2 heads but I've never seen any flow charts to verify this. If you're looking for the cheapest route, I'd just stick with the j32a2 heads because it would cost some extra cash on enlarging the j35a3's valves.
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1foxbody (12-30-2012)
#6
Now you're speaking my language Fox!
What they IS TRUE, you cannot use stock j35a3 pistons with 36mm valves unless theyre notched. RL (05+) and TL-S (07-08) pistons will def clear 36mm intake valves. Although many (including myself) have denounced that the RL/TL-S pistons are forged, Acuranews.com actually says that they are...that's official too. I myself DID see, in person, casting marks on the one I ordered for that reason alone. If you're wanting to stick with OEM parts only, I'd recommend using the 09+ TL 3.5 pistons. They're forged aluminum and are around $75 cost for a standard set. But you may want to reconsider if you must use oversized pistons (.020") because they're nearly $160 per piston! If you need them, I can give you factory cylinder tolerances that you can use to determine wether or not a bore or just a hone is required. I've heard a lot of rumors on how the larger stroke J series motors develop "square" bores due to the linear force caused by the rod stroke itself on the walls. Chances are it will require boring unless you can find a low mileage unit.
As for the heads, I've heard from two trustworthy people that the factory j35a3 heads have more airflow potential than the j32a2 heads but I've never seen any flow charts to verify this. If you're looking for the cheapest route, I'd just stick with the j32a2 heads because it would cost some extra cash on enlarging the j35a3's valves.
What they IS TRUE, you cannot use stock j35a3 pistons with 36mm valves unless theyre notched. RL (05+) and TL-S (07-08) pistons will def clear 36mm intake valves. Although many (including myself) have denounced that the RL/TL-S pistons are forged, Acuranews.com actually says that they are...that's official too. I myself DID see, in person, casting marks on the one I ordered for that reason alone. If you're wanting to stick with OEM parts only, I'd recommend using the 09+ TL 3.5 pistons. They're forged aluminum and are around $75 cost for a standard set. But you may want to reconsider if you must use oversized pistons (.020") because they're nearly $160 per piston! If you need them, I can give you factory cylinder tolerances that you can use to determine wether or not a bore or just a hone is required. I've heard a lot of rumors on how the larger stroke J series motors develop "square" bores due to the linear force caused by the rod stroke itself on the walls. Chances are it will require boring unless you can find a low mileage unit.
As for the heads, I've heard from two trustworthy people that the factory j35a3 heads have more airflow potential than the j32a2 heads but I've never seen any flow charts to verify this. If you're looking for the cheapest route, I'd just stick with the j32a2 heads because it would cost some extra cash on enlarging the j35a3's valves.
Another option is I can always use cl or rl pistons and just do a quick hone. I wouldn't get it bored because that's even more money added to the total lol. But that's another $500 roughly for pistons and ring set added to the price of buying the engine. I don't think I want to go this route.
I need to make up my damn mind lol!!!
Last edited by 1foxbody; 12-30-2012 at 04:18 PM.
#7
After doing some more research I think the compression ratio of a bone stock J35A3 is 11:1:1. Also if I put my J32A2 heads on it the new compression ratio would be 11:5:1. Can anybody confirm that?
Is it possible to reuse the head gasket and head bolts?
I think I'm going to just try to do it out of curiosity.
Is it possible to reuse the head gasket and head bolts?
I think I'm going to just try to do it out of curiosity.
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#8
Three Wheelin'
iTrader: (3)
13010-PGK-A01 pistons DO clear 14711-PGE-A00 valves. Forget what you may have heard, as I'm a guy who has seen it work.
The front head part number of a J32A2 is 12100-P8E-306. A J35A3 is 12100-P8E-306 as well. The same goes for the rear heads of course since neither motor used VCM.
Yes, the J32A2 head will give you a .49 bump in compression. I took CC's as well and did the math.
You shouldnt re-use head gaskets or head bolts. They are torque to yield.
The front head part number of a J32A2 is 12100-P8E-306. A J35A3 is 12100-P8E-306 as well. The same goes for the rear heads of course since neither motor used VCM.
Yes, the J32A2 head will give you a .49 bump in compression. I took CC's as well and did the math.
You shouldnt re-use head gaskets or head bolts. They are torque to yield.
Last edited by gerzand; 12-30-2012 at 07:54 PM.
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1foxbody (12-31-2012)
#11
Senior Moderator
13010-PGK-A01 pistons DO clear 14711-PGE-A00 valves. Forget what you may have heard, as I'm a guy who has seen it work.
The front head part number of a J32A2 is 12100-P8E-306. A J35A3 is 12100-P8E-306 as well. The same goes for the rear heads of course since neither motor used VCM.
Yes, the J32A2 head will give you a .49 bump in compression. I took CC's as well and did the math.
You shouldnt re-use head gaskets or head bolts. They are torque to yield.
The front head part number of a J32A2 is 12100-P8E-306. A J35A3 is 12100-P8E-306 as well. The same goes for the rear heads of course since neither motor used VCM.
Yes, the J32A2 head will give you a .49 bump in compression. I took CC's as well and did the math.
You shouldnt re-use head gaskets or head bolts. They are torque to yield.
which is the main reason to upgrade to the RL or TL-S pistons. To get higher compression.
#12
Thank you gerzand you answered all my questions!!! Now it's time for me to get to work lol!!
On a side note my friend dropped off his 03 CLS 6 speed swap tonight for me to do some work before he has it swapped into his ek civic hatch. I only took two pics after putting it on the engine stand.
On a side note my friend dropped off his 03 CLS 6 speed swap tonight for me to do some work before he has it swapped into his ek civic hatch. I only took two pics after putting it on the engine stand.
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1foxbody (12-31-2012)
#14
Senior Moderator
I love how every J the rear head gets discolored inside while the front stays nice and new looking.
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1foxbody (12-31-2012)
#15
03 acura cl type s
iTrader: (1)
Thank you gerzand you answered all my questions!!! Now it's time for me to get to work lol!!
On a side note my friend dropped off his 03 CLS 6 speed swap tonight for me to do some work before he has it swapped into his ek civic hatch. I only took two pics after putting it on the engine stand.
On a side note my friend dropped off his 03 CLS 6 speed swap tonight for me to do some work before he has it swapped into his ek civic hatch. I only took two pics after putting it on the engine stand.
#16
J-series addict
iTrader: (4)
So Fox, I must ask...I understand the whole wanting to use OEM parts but why spend $500 on stock pistons? Going through a reputable company such as Wiseco you will get both the quality and the value. I myself chose Wiseco for my J32 build and had a chance to take some measurements and was amazed at the tolerance they held to the OEM pistons.
Also, are you planning on running this with factory ECM? If so, which one?
Also, are you planning on running this with factory ECM? If so, which one?
#17
All motor
Sub'd!
When are you going back to the track!? Lol.
When are you going back to the track!? Lol.
#18
So Fox, I must ask...I understand the whole wanting to use OEM parts but why spend $500 on stock pistons? Going through a reputable company such as Wiseco you will get both the quality and the value. I myself chose Wiseco for my J32 build and had a chance to take some measurements and was amazed at the tolerance they held to the OEM pistons.
Also, are you planning on running this with factory ECM? If so, which one?
Also, are you planning on running this with factory ECM? If so, which one?
#19
#20
6mt swapped..smart
So in actuality, you could just throw your a2 heads on an j35a3 bottom end netting you the same 10.5:1 stock compression.. If i'm correct, that's the route i'd go. Do the j35 bottom ends comply while reving to 7000k+ though?
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1foxbody (12-31-2012)
#21
Senior Moderator
Regional Coordinator
(Mid-Atlantic)
Regional Coordinator
(Mid-Atlantic)
iTrader: (6)
#22
I think the shortblock will be fine. Will see how long it lasts on the big shot though lol.
#23
6mt swapped..smart
What about the revving aspect or are you not going to rev it out to the stock 3.2's computer's limit? I can't believe you're doing all this without any tuning..Don't be surprised if the stock ecm has a shit fit and forces you to throw something on there.. I know mine did when I ported the heads and added a lot of air through pretty much every other intake-breathing mod you can do
#24
Senior Moderator
What about the revving aspect or are you not going to rev it out to the stock 3.2's computer's limit? I can't believe you're doing all this without any tuning..Don't be surprised if the stock ecm has a shit fit and forces you to throw something on there.. I know mine did when I ported the heads and added a lot of air through pretty much every other intake-breathing mod you can do
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1foxbody (12-31-2012)
#25
The 3.5 will be just fine reving to the type-s redline. Many have done it (on other forums) There shouldnt be a issue with porting and the stock ecu either. I have everything ported on mine and have zero issues. I even had a 80mm tb on with the stock ecu and had no issues. These motors NEED more air, the more you can get them the more they like it.
#29
Senior Moderator
#30
All motor
Ported 3.7 manifold? Or dual TB perhaps?
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1foxbody (01-02-2013)
#33
Scratch that. Not using the oem lower runners anymore since they can only be bored so much and a limiting factor when it comes to designing a new manifold. Everything will be custom. Also aftermarket fuel rails, new direct port setup design too.
Last edited by 1foxbody; 01-02-2013 at 10:46 PM.
#35
#38
#39
Senior Moderator
#40
All motor
WTF is going on in here? Lmao.
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