implicit

Hello, I'm hoping someone might have some advice/insight for my situation.

I've got an 03 CL-S with a 6Speed.

I was driving on the weekend and the car was running a little rough (very slightly) but otherwise fine, still responsive etc. I drove for about 45 min on the highway then parked it. A couple of hours later I drove it to go for lunch, was driving for about 2-3 minutes and the engine just died. I wasn't playing with the car at all, driving rather conserviately going for lunch as I had 3 other people in the car. I couldn't get the car started so I had Acura Roadside assistance get it towed to my dealer.


Anyways, now the dealer has it. They were able to start it just fine but said it was running really rough (much rougher than when I was driving it). They ended up doing a compression check and said a couple of the cylinders were leaking. I told them they could take it apart and check and I was informed that all of the exaust valves are bent.

They told me the only way this could happen is if the car is over rev'd. Which can only be done by downshifting at high rpms (which I NEVER do of course).

So, basically I'm being told its my fault and its gonna cost $1500 to fix the valves.


So......I want my car back but I don't want to pay for the repairs as they're not my fault.

Any other explanation for the bent valves?

My other concern of course is, if I bite the cost and fix it...are they just gonna bend again anyways?



I've been driving a standard for 10 years, and stupidity wasn't a factor.

Fabvsix

find another dealer ? Also aren't they suppose to show you a code that the engine was over rev'd ? Its just here say otherwise................

Slimey

My understanding is that over revs codes are stored in the ECU. If you are 100% sure that you have not over rev'ed, then ask if any codes were stored.

Did you get the car new or used (or new with a few miles on it)? It could have been over rev'ed at any point in the engines life to bend the valve.

implicit

Acording the dealer the CL-S doesn't record an over rev like the RSX.

They also claim its the "District Supervisor's" call if its covered or not so taking it somewhere probably won't help anyways.

Their example on how it was damaged would be driving at 85mph in 5th gear then shifting into 2nd.......yeah, that's likely......

lead_sled_dog

Well, tell 'em your tranny failed like mine and did exactly that ... downshifted from 5th to 2nd. What a bunch of jackasses. I'd contact the District clown and talk with him directly telling him you didn't over-rev the car.

Zippee

I can not imagine how exhaust valves get bent other than over rev or timing belt slip. If the cam timing is still good then I think you are on the hook for the repair.

I'd talk directly with the District guy and see if there is any "good will" avalible.

Good luck!

implicit

The car was new from the dealer....had less than 100 miles on it

implicit

I just got off the phone from Acura Customer Care, they looked into it but are of course just giving me the same story. I think I'll take the advice and try and track down the District Supervisor.

I'll post again when I get more info.

sidemarker

now i dont have a 6speed but my valves came loose and i need a motor.
how the hell are they charging you only $1500 when bent valve means pretty much new internals including a new short block!

have them prove to you that you overreved the motor and if they cant please inform me of what they think might have caused this problem because im in the prosess of getting my car fixed so i want to compare notes...

sidemarker

DrDre1443

Ask then why would bent valves be covered only "sometimes" under warranty and not under other times. Wrranty laws in North Carolina give the consumer the "most favorable light", so unless they have cold, hard proof that you messed it up on purpose, one call from a lawyer will do it.

pay the lawyer 200 bucks to make a call and file a small claims court suit for you, don't plan on going to court, Acura will fix the problem b/c it will cost less than paying their corporate attorneys to go to court for a day.

implicit

Apparently the pistons are ok....they're marked from the valves but not damaged so they don't need to be replaced.

They claim with no other damage, the only way to bend the valves is to over rev.

I assume the cam, valve springs, etc are fine.


The only "proof" they have of an overrev is the damage to the valves....

implicit

Thanks man, I think I'll give that a shot

implicit

Has anyone had bent valves covered under warranty?

oneilc

The piston may be more prone to being damaged in the future because of what happened.

UNeeKLiNG

iTrader: (3)

samething happened to me...but before tustin acura claimed bent valves i told them that i took it to weir canyon acura for noises in my engine..weir canyon ended up doing some valve adjustments and tustin acura faulted weir canyon and did my bent valve work under warranty....so if youever took it to a dealer for valve adjustment then just show them the paper work that you did have your valves worked on...other thatthat i dont' know any other solutions for this problem

J.T.'s 3.2CL

Your dealer is full of shit.

It's kind of hard for a manual transmission to downshift from 5th to 2nd on it's own.

sidemarker

my so called extended warranty would have if i did not "modify" my car...

sidemarker

sidemarker

apparently you are lucky you have never driven a 5at cl-s 70 mph on the highway in 5th gear and all of a sudden the tranny decides to take a shit and downshift to 2nd. This has happend to me and other members as well...

sidemarker

sidemarker

you have bent valves chances are your pistons are fooked too!!!! and there is no way they can tell if the pistons are in good shape unless they fix the valve issues and do a compression check...

sidemarker

J.T.'s 3.2CL

I know all about that but he has a MANUAL TRANSMISSION which would make it impossible for it to automatically downshift.

implicit

Is there anywhere I can look this up to prove there should be an over rev code? Seems like that should be an easy way for me to prove it wasn't my fault.....

J.T.'s 3.2CL

You can hook a code reader up to the car to check for the engine overspeed code. If it's there good luck getting that covered under warranty...That only PROVES that the car was overeved at one time or another. But trust me this car is capable of storing the code. If it's not there it was erased or something elese caused the problem.

Shawn S

It’s gonna be hard to prove to the dealer that you didn’t thrash the car and miss a downshift.
It’s kind of like the fact that all the people in prison say that they are innocent.
For the most part they’re all a bunch of liars, but there are a few of them who are telling the truth.
Your job is to convince the dealer of this if it’s true.

How old are you and what is your driving experience?
It’s not good to stereotype, but that’s what the service manager is going to do.
It’s a big difference if you're 17 with your first car vs some 40 year old who’s been an Acura customer for many years.

Shawn S

implicit

Been driving for 11 years and I've owned a standard for 10 years. My last vehicle has almost 200,000 miles on it and is still being driven by my brother in law (with no bent valves I might add.....). This is however my first Acura.

Oh yeah, and I'm 27 btw


What I want to know is, is there somewhere I can look up and prove that the car is capable of storing the over rev code? They told me repeatedly that the car will not store an over rev code. If I can prove its possible, I'm guessing I'm half way there to getting this covered under warranty.

And thanks everyone for all the info

J.T.'s 3.2CL

I KNOW FOR A FACT THAT IT IS. Calling Scalbert. Maybe the reason they are telling you this is because no code was found and they still want to deny you. The car IS capable!

implicit

Excellent!

Thank you, you've just made my day

J.T.'s 3.2CL

P0219 Engine Overspeed Condition is the obd II trouble code.

mrkite

I once bent valves... but it was really my fault. I really made the mistake at 90 to go from 5 to 2... I wanted to go in 4 to pass someone.

The dealer said the ecu got an overeved signal. Finally, acura paid for the parts and i paid for the time. That came out to 800$ Can

implicit

What year is your car?

Slimey

6MT was only available in MY2003

mrkite

yes, it is a 2003...

zeta

iTrader: (1)

Implicit,

My CLS-6 had bent valves that were fixed under warranty in Nov 2003. Click on the link below to view the thread. If the link does not work, do a search with the following parameters to find my thread: rough idle=bent valves

https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...%3Dbent+valves

Funny thing is that your story sounds alot like mine, as far as how it happened. My 6-speed had 65 miles on it when I took delivery from the dealer back in July 2002. God only knows how hard it was driven during that first 65.

In addition, the TSB for the timing belt auto tensioner had just been released weeks before this happened to me so the dealer corrected it under warranty.

Did you ever have the timing belt auto tensioner replaced as a result of the TSB??

If not, then I do not see how the dealer can absolve themselves from their warranty responsibility with that timing belt auto tensioner TSB out there. Unless of course, you've passed the warranty period.

I know how you feel, it was a big hassle to have to deal with. Good luck!

NiteQwill

Is this just a generic stored P__* code stored in the ECU, or do you have to go seraching under another module? Thanks.

ball4lyfe

Implicit, which dealer did you go to? I go to Northshore Acura in North Van and they are really nice to deal with. My CLS wasn't even bought there but their service has been superb. (I got my Airbag module replaced for free after the warranty - no questions were asked and they replaced one of tranny mounts almost for free - I called Honda Canada and Acura Canada provided the part and the dealership paid half of install) That was, all after the factory warranty has expired. Call Honda Canada and explain how the dealership has been dealing with you and your concern about purchase on Acura products in the future.
You can call 1-888-946-6329. Tell them that you never abused the car and your experience on manual tranny as well.
If you do go to Northshore Acura, look for Tracy and he should be nice enough to help you out. Hope this helps.

implicit

I bought the car in the summer of last year so its possible the auto tensioner was already fixed before I got the car but I don't honestly know...I'll definately look into it.

And thanks for the link...this is definately going to be helpful.

And especially thanks for the support

implicit

I bought the car from Lougheed Acura....they've been great up until now. As I mentioned in my last post, I bought the car last year so its still under warranty.

Thanks for the heads-up on Northshore Acura, I live in Kits so its not too much of a drive (closer than Lougheed)...and since I'm going to need to find a new dealship to take my car too anyways, I'll be checking them out.

I called Acura Customer Care at 1-888-922-8729 and told them my story, all they did is call the dealer and then call me back telling me the same story. I'll give this number a shot, ideally if I tell enough people, someone will actually listen.


Supposedly the District Rep is going to the dealership on Friday to check out the situation so I probably won't know anything new till Monday.


It sounds like I just need to yell loud enough and long enough until Acura pays the bill.....its too bad it takes this much effort to get warranty work done.

implicit

Thanks, I asked just to make sure it wasn't a first gen

implicit

Looks like its a generic OBD-II code...I did a little research and found a couple of good listings on the codes

http://www.autorepair.about.com/library/ts/bl-obd-2.htm

implicit

Just an update....apparently the dealer chatted with the district rep and this is the deal I've been offered:

I pay 1/3
Acura pays 1/3
the dealer pays 1/3

Not sure why the dealer should have to pay anything but I appreciate the gesture. The owner at Lougheed Acura is a really great guy and I think he's trying to help his customer (me). At the same time, Acura Canada should still be paying for everything.

They claim there was absolutely nothing wrong with the timing belt or the tensioner but I'm not sure I believe that.....I can live with paying 1/3, but its still BS

DrDre1443

don't feel bad for the dealer, by getting 2/3 of the money the dealer is still making money on labor and breaking even with parts....

Acura Canada is not losing pretty much anything by saving 2/3 costs on a warranty claim.

so even though you're paying 1/3, you're coughing up most of the "cost"


Go back and offer them a "flat"...like 300 bucks, if they ask for your reasoning, tell them you're not paying 1/3 cost of "retail" price on a warranty claim. If they don't budge on that, offer 1/3 on Acura's COST of the claim.