RUF87

Maybe it's some kind of "Tornado Air" type of device that funnels air into the intake faster. :p

LOL

RUF

RedLineTypeS

Throttle body/intake mod of somesort or exhaust mod... new CAT????????????????????

Nashua_Night_Hawk

VTEC engaging the hot cams.

Pull_T

Has anyone yet conjectured that the 'Mystery Mod" might be some kind of device to advance timing physically rather than by a chip, like a relocation of the timing sensor to an external wheel.

I am assuming that the crank position sensor works of of a Hall Effect? Is that right?

RedLineTypeS

I dont think any other type is/can be used with DIS systems... ? Obviously ignoring magnetic (ancient) to sense notches in the crank... Is that right? right?

[ 08-30-2001: Message edited by: RedLineTypeS ]

SFLA_Type-S

Hey Pull_T,

I just recently realized that I will need to start looking for better gripping tires. Can you tell me if you got the 1.998 60'times with the Kuhmo ECSTA Supra 712s? If you did I am buying them.

Thanks

RedLineTypeS

Yeah but keep in mind their on a worked cobra not a cls lol

Pull_T

Yes, they are. I have the stock size (for my car) 245/45/17.

Like the sig says, they are highly recommended. From my experience, they are about as good as it gets for 60' for a "regular" street tire. Drop that psi to 24-25 (for you fwd'ers, about 26-27), one quick spin to clean them off and boom, they hook really well.

They are about as good as any other tire I have tried in the categories of road noise, wet traction and tread wear. They also have a great looking tread pattern and are SUPER CHEAP, I think I paid $118 a tire for my size.

Pull_T

I may be stupid here since I am not totally familiar, but the "ancient" method is exactly how I change timing in my car. Are you saying that the CL doesn't have the notch system with a magnetic sensor or that it isn't feasible?

RedLineTypeS

Nahhh you up on ya shit just I wasnt real clear in my answer.. I meant using a magnet to sense notches on the crank or HB was antiquated.. Opposed to using a notches on the crank, or shutter blades to interrupt magnetic field in hall effect sensor window to gate a pulse to the pcm....

SFLA_Type-S

THANKS FOR THE INFO

I was thinking of getting the Toyo Proxes T1S, but from what you're telling me I will go with the Kuhmo ECSTA Supra 712s. 1.998 is very impressive for a street tire. Thanks again

Pull_T

Check at tirerack.com to see if you can get the OEM size, you might have to step up a little bit in size for them.

RUF87

I thought that VTEC kicked in at 4700 or so. Are you saying that perhaps this is when the full effect of the cam profile kicks in?

RUF

RedLineTypeS

Dual Stage intake (IMRC) opens at 4800 .. Vtec kix in around 5500 or so .. and We have one cam per head .. "hot lobes" not hot cams

Fiddler

DAMN!!! is he running a 200 shot of NOS or is this a joke?.. i have a feeling this mod is some sort of a computer tweak . for the money, the ease of install and the numbers, i havent seen any hardware mods that would qualify ... (i dont suppose its an ultra-cheap Tesla turbine powered turbo? )... damn cant wait.. whats the word on J30 engines? .. i would love to see numbers for a V6 accord

[ 08-30-2001: Message edited by: Fiddler ]

RUF87

Thanks for the feedback RedLineTypeS.

RUF

RedLineTypeS

no prob bud

FDao

Actually, the IMRC opens at 3800-4000 rpm. You can confirm this by performing a look under the hood for the IMRC turning while having someone step on the gas gradually. VTEC kicks in at 5000 rpm.

tel1sps

I want one

SFLA_Type-S

I think you might have mis-read the dyno chart It's actually a 55 shot.

The horsepower numbers are on the left side of the chart & the green line represents (282.2HP @ 6200RPM)

Then on the right side are the torque numbers. The black line represents (248.1 lb/ft of torque "peak" @5000 RPM)

I hope this was a little helpful

[ 08-31-2001: Message edited by: SFLA_Type-S ]

Squishy

Can we get a group buy?

NSXNEXT

iTrader: (2)

How about a new fuel rail or distributorless ignition?

Nashua_Night_Hawk

distibutor less ignition, we have a coil-over a spark plugs system

Fuel rail? how does't improve performance?

scalbert

A fuel rail would be helpful only if the stock one can't flow enough fuel starving the engine and causing a lean condition. That is not currently the case.

We already have an excellent DIS with a coil at each plug.

EricL

AS usual, you give great answers...

I did find a few pages where people got temporary gains from dropping or raising the fuel rail (to modify the fuel-air ratio) at WOT; some cars run rich, other lean.

A lot of the people seemed to comment about how the "car's computer/brain", adjusted for the different O2 readings from the exhaust sensor after a period of time. It seems that most of the newer OBDII systems have our "I'm going to readjust your fuel mixture to what I want 'thing'" going on...

scalbert

As mentioned, we need to look at what adds power to possibly get an insight on what this might be.

To gain power you can make the engine breathe easier. Increasing the displacement also helps. Or you can artificially increase the displacement through forced induction. Other simple ways are to advance the timing and/or recalibrate the fueling maps. Changing the valve timing can be of help. And then you can fully balance and lighten the internals. Excluding nitrous, those are primarily it with all of the sub-categories falling into their respective groups.

In the breathing area the simple ways are through a freer flowing intake and exhaust. These certainly give more power but this was mentioned to have been added to a car with these items already installed. You could work the heads and/or manifold but this is beyond the simple install.

Increasing displacement is out the window since it was shown to work on a stock 3.2L engine and well past the dollars amount.

Forced induction is also more costly than mentioned.

Changing the valve timing would take longer than 5 minutes and is probably out of the scope of work for most people.

Engine work is also out for the obvious reasons.

So where are we left... IMO, I feel that it will be someway to alter either the ignition timing and/or the fuel maps.

The ignition could be altered through a re-located prox sensor (mag pick-up, CPK, you pick your name). This could be made easy and a simple swap if manufactured correctly. A general rule of thumb is that you can pick up 1 - 2 HP per degree advance in timing. There may be 10 degrees advance capability in there, remember syncivic did stress that they were running 93 octane which would be needed.

The other area could be a piggy-back computer or even a reprogrammed PCM. These could also alter the timing maps but also the fuel tables.

But in either case, both could fall into the 5 minute install by anyone and could potentially yield these gains at the price mentioned.

Just a thought.

RAdams

All OBDII-equipped cars do this. It's called fuel trim. There are both short and long term "changes" it makes to the fuel delivery that keeps it within the acceptable emissions levels while adapting to the way you drive the car. You can monitor (but not alter) these values using any of the available-for-end-user OBDII diagnostic equipment or, of course, with the ultra-cool but somewhat more spendy Honda PGM-FI tester.

EricL

Steve -- with all of the "parameter" changing -- the install time was 25 minutes, then 5 minutes, etc. it gets to be a true guessing game as to exactly "what" the "mystery" mod is.

This is the where the "genius" of this comes in...

Being curious creatures with EGOS the size of the planet, it makes for great marketing.

At this point, is there anyone around who doesn't know about this mod?

And how much did the marketing cost – ZERO!!!

Now that's using one's brain!

(I really am taking notes...)

scalbert

Definitely, there are two adjustments, short and long term fuel trim table in current OBDII implementations. If the O2 voltage swings to far rich or lean during closed loop operation (95%+ of the time) the PCM adjusts the short term (STFT) fuel trim table based on a calculation. This STFT and LTFT values are expressed in percentage and are a direct correlation to adjust the base injector pulse width.

Next the PCM starts adjusting the long term fuel trim (LTFT) to try and bring the STFT back to 0%. I don't recall which value is used first after the base injector pulse width is determined. It is fun to watch these values try and catch up when you make changes through fuel pressure adjustments or by modifying input signals.

But as you can see if the STFT goes to the +% you have encountered a lean condition. If it goes -% you have gone a little rich. These values are constantly being updated and can 'trim' out user adjustment in minutes or less.

BTW, to those who used to work with some 80's domestics, this is the nearly the same thing as the older BLMs (block learn modes) but much more standardized and advanced.

scalbert

Very, very true, over 100 posts to entice potential buyers....

EricL

Yep, you are CORRECT...

There are some OBDII diagnostic products (from 3rd parties) that DO allow people to change the internal mapping of fuel-air and timing. However, they don't make one for our car.

Nashua_Night_Hawk

SFLA_TYPE-S,

What does it take to make you reveal the viel of secrecy?

[ 08-31-2001: Message edited by: Nashua_Night_Hawk ]

NSXNEXT

iTrader: (2)

NNH, last time I checked, that's what a distributor-less ignition is. What I meant to write was the MSD product for a distributorless ignition.

AndyN aka CLTypeS

Scalbert,

Glad to have you back. Still one of the most informed and mature members of this board.

How much do you think gains would change if lesser octane (91 here in CA) were to be used assuming that the mod is a remapping of sorts? I know this is a stupid question since we have no idea what the mod is but I had to ask.

Andy

EricL

I know this is addressed to Steve, but I will tell you that "some" TLS people are having pinging problems with the 91 fuels. One member who put in a couple of gallons of high-test (100-octane 76) got the pinging to go away. (I took a bashing for suggesting this [adding a couple of gallons on a low tank] – I still have the lash marks&#8230

All that I'm saying is our gas in not what it used to be.

BTW -- The TLS specs on the Acura site (www.acura.com) say the TLS requires 92 octane...

NSXNEXT

iTrader: (2)

I would hope that our engines are not so finicky that they could tell the difference between 91 and 92 octane.

I suspect they just bought really cheap gas, half gas/half ?????

scalbert

If it is a change to the ignition timing and they spec 93 octane minimum, I'm not sure what the gains would be with 91 grades.

The chance of hitting mild detonation would be increase with the lower octane. When knock is 'heard' by the PCM the base timing is pulled back. This is normally more than what would be required, usually defined as KR (knock retard). If this KR is more than the timing advancement then no gains are had and a little power maybe lost.

But the only way to tell would be to watch the PCM data with a lower octane gas. Remember, there are many attributes that lead to deto. Run a lower octane in cold weather without experiencing knock and you get even more power (more BTUs in the lower octanes).

But run this lower octane with advanced timing in the summer, when stuck in traffic (road temps up to 140 degrees where a CAI is ingesting) and there may be significant KR to the point of loosing power beyond what would be attained without the advance.

scalbert

Makes since, but I wonder what is cause thie pre-mature deto?? Hot spots, poor fueling, etc...

Maybe time to look into a scan tool before messing with the timing...

EricL

Well, your TL has lower compression (yes/no)?

(The TLS says -- I want 92, the CLS says I want 91...)

The exercise in "bumping" the octane up, was more of a "diagnostic" to help the dealer. It was just my feeling that the more info is better than less info.

I've talked to a few of my friends with Audis, Maximas, and others who "think" that their cars don't feel quite as peppy (who knows???)

I do know that 91-octane California gas should be not considered to be "identical" to 91-octane out-of-state gas...

AndyN aka CLTypeS

Isn't that just a pain in the rear? With all the environmental additives I'm not sure what kind of stuff is running through our cars. I we have to pay more for that junk too thanks to the tax on top of the tax. Funny is that after all the discussion about the air, the additive (MTBE?) was poisoning our water.

Gotta love politicians.