Any Information on 3.7L swap?
09-16-2008, 12:31 PM
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Any Information on 3.7L swap?
I Was planing on doing a 3.5 stoker. But a 3.7 (RL and TL Sh)just sounds so much better.
I already have a full 3.2cls block sitting at my house and I know I can just drop in rods and crank and be done with 3.5. (I know its not just dropping in)
The 3.7 has a 90 mm bore instead of the 89 like the 3.2 and 3.5.
Is it possible to bore out the 89 to 90? Is it worth it. and will the 96mm crank work?
I know the 3.7 (2009 RL and has vtec on both intake and exhaust At least the new RL does. So the heads are different. and its drive by wire.
What are the differnces in the blocks and intakes and such.
I know alot of questions hopefully can point me in the right direction.
I already have a full 3.2cls block sitting at my house and I know I can just drop in rods and crank and be done with 3.5. (I know its not just dropping in)
The 3.7 has a 90 mm bore instead of the 89 like the 3.2 and 3.5.
Is it possible to bore out the 89 to 90? Is it worth it. and will the 96mm crank work?
I know the 3.7 (2009 RL and has vtec on both intake and exhaust At least the new RL does. So the heads are different. and its drive by wire.
What are the differnces in the blocks and intakes and such.
I know alot of questions hopefully can point me in the right direction.
09-16-2008, 06:28 PM
#2
I'm pretty sure that the new J series block is about 1/2 inch shorter so you are pretty much sol
09-16-2008, 08:23 PM
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From what I heard the 3.7 swap can net about 300hp but once you do it, THATS IT. You have no potential to do anything else because of how its put together. Plus its EXPENSIVE. I say just do the 3.5 and leave yourself with more options later because it will be easy for a 3.5 to catch and pass a 3.7 thats stuck at 300hp. I mean that in the sense of the 3.5 will still have more potential to pull more power.
09-17-2008, 01:03 AM
#5
From what I heard the 3.7 swap can net about 300hp but once you do it, THATS IT. You have no potential to do anything else because of how its put together. Plus its EXPENSIVE. I say just do the 3.5 and leave yourself with more options later because it will be easy for a 3.5 to catch and pass a 3.7 thats stuck at 300hp. I mean that in the sense of the 3.5 will still have more potential to pull more power.
09-17-2008, 07:52 AM
#6
the only way to achieve 3.7L in a CL is to do some highly custom work, either piston/block work, or figuring out to mount the 3.7L and tranny to the CL, because it will not just bolt up to your car. the 3.5L block on the other hand will.
as for those who say you cannot do anything on the 3.7L, i disagree. a skilled tuner can achieve safe things with moderate boost. especially if you go and get forged piston/rods. i don't really understand what "stuck at 300hp" means, IMO, a 6 spd can achieve 300whp on a 3.5L, so 3.7L who knows.
as for those who say you cannot do anything on the 3.7L, i disagree. a skilled tuner can achieve safe things with moderate boost. especially if you go and get forged piston/rods. i don't really understand what "stuck at 300hp" means, IMO, a 6 spd can achieve 300whp on a 3.5L, so 3.7L who knows.
09-17-2008, 09:08 AM
#7
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the only way to achieve 3.7L in a CL is to do some highly custom work, either piston/block work, or figuring out to mount the 3.7L and tranny to the CL, because it will not just bolt up to your car. the 3.5L block on the other hand will.
as for those who say you cannot do anything on the 3.7L, i disagree. a skilled tuner can achieve safe things with moderate boost. especially if you go and get forged piston/rods. i don't really understand what "stuck at 300hp" means, IMO, a 6 spd can achieve 300whp on a 3.5L, so 3.7L who knows.
as for those who say you cannot do anything on the 3.7L, i disagree. a skilled tuner can achieve safe things with moderate boost. especially if you go and get forged piston/rods. i don't really understand what "stuck at 300hp" means, IMO, a 6 spd can achieve 300whp on a 3.5L, so 3.7L who knows.
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09-17-2008, 09:59 AM
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the only way to achieve 3.7L in a CL is to do some highly custom work, either piston/block work, or figuring out to mount the 3.7L and tranny to the CL, because it will not just bolt up to your car. the 3.5L block on the other hand will.
as for those who say you cannot do anything on the 3.7L, i disagree. a skilled tuner can achieve safe things with moderate boost. especially if you go and get forged piston/rods. i don't really understand what "stuck at 300hp" means, IMO, a 6 spd can achieve 300whp on a 3.5L, so 3.7L who knows.
as for those who say you cannot do anything on the 3.7L, i disagree. a skilled tuner can achieve safe things with moderate boost. especially if you go and get forged piston/rods. i don't really understand what "stuck at 300hp" means, IMO, a 6 spd can achieve 300whp on a 3.5L, so 3.7L who knows.
All the above^^^ Oh ok, go ahead and do the 3.7 then. I know someone personally over here thats putting one together himself and has already given me the low down. Your not gonna be able to put safe boost on a 3.7 and have it run long and reliable, I dont care what you all say until you actually do it or see it done.
And yes the increase in bore and reduction in cylinder wall thickness limits the 3.7 strictly to NA duty
09-17-2008, 10:07 AM
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No disrespect at all to Type R and CleanCL though.
They were probably the first people to even do the 3.5 swap so I'm pretty sure they know what they are talking about.
Don't get me wrong I would love to see a boosted 3.7
I'm just not sure how the 3.7 in a CL would even hold with boost with it's thin walls. Even with forged pistons and rods.
They were probably the first people to even do the 3.5 swap so I'm pretty sure they know what they are talking about.
Don't get me wrong I would love to see a boosted 3.7
I'm just not sure how the 3.7 in a CL would even hold with boost with it's thin walls. Even with forged pistons and rods.
09-17-2008, 11:17 AM
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InspireTL and CLS6spdNUPE can either of you answer if the Cls tranny will bolt up, If the engine mounts are custom, and even what type of engine managment are the running. I would love info on this swap.
Just thought I would share some info about the motor
Just thought I would share some info about the motor
3.5L SOHC VTEC V6
A 3.5L was introduced to the TL lineup with the 2007 TL Type-S - this configuration produced 286hp and 256lb-ft. The 2009 J35 is essentially the same engine that was found in the TL Type-S, but there are a few differences, resulting in slightly less output in the '09 version (280hp and 254lb-ft). Compression has actually increased from 11.0:1 to 11.2:1, but for duty in the Base TL, there's less of an emphasis on all-out performance, so this year's J35 uses more conservative intake and exhaust tuning for NVH performance. For this engine, Honda's more traditional SOHC VTEC valvetrain has been employed. This system switches between two discrete camshaft profiles to alter the timing and lift of the intake valves, depending upon RPM.
3.7L SOHC VTEC V6 with Intake/Exhaust SOHC VTEC
The TL SH-AWD's 3.7L SOHC VTEC engine is an enhanced version of the all-new-for 2009 3.7L V6 that was recently introduced in the RL. Compared to the RL's new V6, the TL version is up 5hp and 2lb-ft, for a total of 305hp and 273lb-ft.
This engine is essentially a bored and stroked version of the 3.5L, but there are some key differences, starting with the cylinder liners. The 3.5L engine features an aluminum block with cast-in iron cylinder liners, but due to the relatively close bore spacing of the J-series V6 design, the 3.7L version uses high-silicon aluminum cylinder liners for improved cooling. During the block machining process, a mechanical etching process exposes silicon particles embedded within the aluminum sleeves, creating a hard piston ring sealing surface. A side benefit of the aluminum cylinder liners is that the overall engine weight of the J37 is actually less than the J35.
The really big news for this engine family in 2009 is the introduction of VTEC control for both intake and exhaust valves. This is made possible by a new multi-arm VTEC® rocker arm system for the exhaust valves.
For each cylinder (set of 4 valves), the camshaft has 6 lobes. The two center lobes (in the set of 6) actuate the intake valves - one lobe is the "high cam" lobe and the other is the "low cam" lobe. There are two exhaust lobes outside of these two center lobes. The outermost lobes are the exhaust "high cam" lobes, and the lobes closer to the center lobes are the "low cam" lobes. For each cylinder, there are a total of 4 exhaust followers and 2 intake followers, each one dedicated to a single cam lobe.
At engine speeds below 4700 rpms, the three "high cam" followers are decoupled from the valve rocker arms, while the "low cam" followers are actuating the 4 valves. Above 4700 RPM, under the correct conditions, the engine control computer signals VTEC® actuation, sending oil pressure to three locking pins, which couple the rocker arms to the "high cam" followers. This increases the lift and duration of both the intake and exhaust valves (+28% lift, +35% duration on the intake side, and +10% lift, +11% duration on the exhaust side). With this new intake/exhaust VTEC® system, more valve timing control is possible, resulting in 47 percent more valve overlap over the standard intake-only VTEC® system.
This added valve control results in improved torque production, improved emissions, more top end power, and better fuel efficiency. Additionally, the new VTEC system also uses roller cam followers, resulting in improved durability and reduced friction.
A 3.5L was introduced to the TL lineup with the 2007 TL Type-S - this configuration produced 286hp and 256lb-ft. The 2009 J35 is essentially the same engine that was found in the TL Type-S, but there are a few differences, resulting in slightly less output in the '09 version (280hp and 254lb-ft). Compression has actually increased from 11.0:1 to 11.2:1, but for duty in the Base TL, there's less of an emphasis on all-out performance, so this year's J35 uses more conservative intake and exhaust tuning for NVH performance. For this engine, Honda's more traditional SOHC VTEC valvetrain has been employed. This system switches between two discrete camshaft profiles to alter the timing and lift of the intake valves, depending upon RPM.
3.7L SOHC VTEC V6 with Intake/Exhaust SOHC VTEC
The TL SH-AWD's 3.7L SOHC VTEC engine is an enhanced version of the all-new-for 2009 3.7L V6 that was recently introduced in the RL. Compared to the RL's new V6, the TL version is up 5hp and 2lb-ft, for a total of 305hp and 273lb-ft.
This engine is essentially a bored and stroked version of the 3.5L, but there are some key differences, starting with the cylinder liners. The 3.5L engine features an aluminum block with cast-in iron cylinder liners, but due to the relatively close bore spacing of the J-series V6 design, the 3.7L version uses high-silicon aluminum cylinder liners for improved cooling. During the block machining process, a mechanical etching process exposes silicon particles embedded within the aluminum sleeves, creating a hard piston ring sealing surface. A side benefit of the aluminum cylinder liners is that the overall engine weight of the J37 is actually less than the J35.
The really big news for this engine family in 2009 is the introduction of VTEC control for both intake and exhaust valves. This is made possible by a new multi-arm VTEC® rocker arm system for the exhaust valves.
For each cylinder (set of 4 valves), the camshaft has 6 lobes. The two center lobes (in the set of 6) actuate the intake valves - one lobe is the "high cam" lobe and the other is the "low cam" lobe. There are two exhaust lobes outside of these two center lobes. The outermost lobes are the exhaust "high cam" lobes, and the lobes closer to the center lobes are the "low cam" lobes. For each cylinder, there are a total of 4 exhaust followers and 2 intake followers, each one dedicated to a single cam lobe.
At engine speeds below 4700 rpms, the three "high cam" followers are decoupled from the valve rocker arms, while the "low cam" followers are actuating the 4 valves. Above 4700 RPM, under the correct conditions, the engine control computer signals VTEC® actuation, sending oil pressure to three locking pins, which couple the rocker arms to the "high cam" followers. This increases the lift and duration of both the intake and exhaust valves (+28% lift, +35% duration on the intake side, and +10% lift, +11% duration on the exhaust side). With this new intake/exhaust VTEC® system, more valve timing control is possible, resulting in 47 percent more valve overlap over the standard intake-only VTEC® system.
This added valve control results in improved torque production, improved emissions, more top end power, and better fuel efficiency. Additionally, the new VTEC system also uses roller cam followers, resulting in improved durability and reduced friction.
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09-17-2008, 11:43 AM
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Yes the CLS tranny will bolt up. Since you will be stroking a 3.5 J35 block you will just want to make sure you get the innovative motor mounts for the CL. Thats all. As far as engine management im sure your gonna need something like the AEM FIC or Emanage either way you go 3.5 or 3.7. I dont know how many different ways you can damage a block thats NA but keep in mind if the 3.7 walls are thin you dont have room or error.
09-18-2008, 07:59 AM
#14
no offense to you guys who have the low down or have seen someone doing a 3.7, either you just know a guy who knows a guy, or the person you know getting the 3.7 doesn't know what their doing.
there's a thing called resleeving a block with high end material sleeves.
as i said, only 2 ways to achieve the 3.7L properly, custom block/piston work or figuring out a way to drop in the 3.7 entirely w/ a 3.7 tranny.
there's a thing called resleeving a block with high end material sleeves.
as i said, only 2 ways to achieve the 3.7L properly, custom block/piston work or figuring out a way to drop in the 3.7 entirely w/ a 3.7 tranny.
09-18-2008, 10:55 AM
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and i wasnt saying boost or no , i was saying there are bolt ons thatt can add to the 3.7 ... and personally if u were gonna boost you could make way more power staying 3.2 and going low compression ...!
09-18-2008, 11:30 AM
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CleanCL
Well two people have already said the the 3.7L bolts to the tranny and bolts into the CL. So I guess just getting the motor would be the best way to go about it. So you wouldn't the the 3.7 tranny (and since the only have an AWD auto I don't think I would want it.
and CLS6speedNUPE Can't I storke the 3.2 just the same as I can stroke the 3.5? same bore.
Does anyone know if you can bore the J3.2/3.5 out to 90mm?
And InspireTL or CLS6spdNUPE do you have info on the person's doing the 3.7 swap?
Well two people have already said the the 3.7L bolts to the tranny and bolts into the CL. So I guess just getting the motor would be the best way to go about it. So you wouldn't the the 3.7 tranny (and since the only have an AWD auto I don't think I would want it.
and CLS6speedNUPE Can't I storke the 3.2 just the same as I can stroke the 3.5? same bore.
Does anyone know if you can bore the J3.2/3.5 out to 90mm?
And InspireTL or CLS6spdNUPE do you have info on the person's doing the 3.7 swap?
09-18-2008, 01:55 PM
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Read and learn my friend...
Here are the swap options along with brief advantage(s)/disadvantage(s):
BLOCK/HEADS (incl. manifold (upper/lower), tb)
------------------
J30A1/J30A1
advantage: no modification needed.
disadvantage: no torque until turbo/sc kicks in.
J30A1/J32A2
advantage: mid-range and top-end power
disadvantage: J30A1 pistons have to be modified to fit large J32A2 (intake) valves.
Not much torque until turbo/sc kicks in.
J32A2/J32A2
advantage: no modification needed, mid-range, top-end power.
disadvantage: torque is still ok but better than J30A1
J35A4/J30A1 (Odyssey '02-04/ '00-02 Accord V6)
advantage: no modifications needed, adequate torque, adequate mid-range
disadvantage:needed better cams, large intake valves for overal better powerband, top-end power
Option 1:
If budget is limited the solution is to swap J32A2 (CL-S/TL-S) cams into stock J30A1(Accord V6) cyl. heads (see sticky CL-S swap and Cam machining).
Option 2:
Get J32A2 (CL-S/TL-S) complete cyl. heads + IM (intake manifold)
But requires different pistons (see J35/J32 below) to clear J32A2 valves.
J35A3/J35A3 (Acura MDX '01-02), J35A4/J35A4 (Honda Odyssey '02-04)
advantage: no modifications needed, great torque, nice mid-range
disadvantage: little less air flow than J32A2 but very close.
This option looks like a good choice if getting the complete engine or even separate short block and cyl. heads/manifold due to a price. And MDX the cyl. heads are the same part # as CL-S, however intake valves and cams are different than CL-S but overall much better than pathetic AV6.
J35A1/J32A2 (Odyssey '01/CL-S '01-03)
advantage: great entire powerband and especially torque.
disadvantage: Need CL-S or RL pistons.
Note: Same options apply as listed below.
J35A3/J32A2 ('01-02 MDX/CL-S '01-03) or J35A4/J32A2 (Odyssey '02-04/CL-S '01-03)
advantage: great entire powerband and especially torque.
disadvantage: Need CL-S or RL pistons.
There are also couple options:
Option 1
With '01-02 complete MDX block or '02-04 Odyssey complete block (crank/rods/pistons) it is required to purchase 2005 Acura RL pistons (new set $50 each) This is a best option still since these pistons have clearance for large 36mm J32A2 (intake) valves thus no modification needed. Despite the fact they have higher 11.0:1 CR still even supercharger can be used here with low boost up to 7psi intercooled (assuming safe AFR). In addition, if 11:1 CR is too high for you, you can use '03 CL-S pistons with 10.5:1 CR.
Option 2
'01-03 J32A2 block (CL-S)
Required to purchase the following:
-= hondaautomotiveparts.com =-
'02-'04 Odyssey (crankshaft)
Product No. 368270 or
Honda part #13310-PGK-A00
'02-'04 Odyssey (connecting rod)
Product No. 368269 or
Honda part #13210-PGK-A00
Main bearings + rod bearings
-= acuraautomotiveparts.org =-
'03 CL-S (pistons) - 10.5:1 CR or
'05 RL (pistons) - 11.0:1 CR
pistons rings (per chosen model)
Note: Odyssey pistons do not have clearance to fit large 36mm J32A2 (intake) valves. Solution - custom job to increase valve pockets.
BTW, The only advantage to get J32A2 block is due to better cylinder sleeves to withstand heat designed for higher redline vehicle, otherwise depending on the price Odyssey or MDX block are the best bet.
Keep in mind, J35A5 '03-04 MDX will not fit on 6th gen. AV6/CL/TL/CL-S/TL-S due to different design, and looks like only for 7th gen. AV6.
Edit: The correct valve dimensions now stand as follows: incl. J30A4/J32A4
J30A1 '98-02 AV6: 34mm/29mm (intake/exhaust)
J30A4 '03+ AV6: 35mm/30mm
J32A1 '01-03' TL/CL: 34mm/30mm
J32A2 '01-03 TL-S/CL-S: 36mm/30mm
J32A4 '04+ TL: 35mm/30mm
J35A1 '99-01 Odyssey: 34mm/29mm
J35A4 '02-04 Odyssey: 35mm/30mm
Here are the swap options along with brief advantage(s)/disadvantage(s):
BLOCK/HEADS (incl. manifold (upper/lower), tb)
------------------
J30A1/J30A1
advantage: no modification needed.
disadvantage: no torque until turbo/sc kicks in.
J30A1/J32A2
advantage: mid-range and top-end power
disadvantage: J30A1 pistons have to be modified to fit large J32A2 (intake) valves.
Not much torque until turbo/sc kicks in.
J32A2/J32A2
advantage: no modification needed, mid-range, top-end power.
disadvantage: torque is still ok but better than J30A1
J35A4/J30A1 (Odyssey '02-04/ '00-02 Accord V6)
advantage: no modifications needed, adequate torque, adequate mid-range
disadvantage:needed better cams, large intake valves for overal better powerband, top-end power
Option 1:
If budget is limited the solution is to swap J32A2 (CL-S/TL-S) cams into stock J30A1(Accord V6) cyl. heads (see sticky CL-S swap and Cam machining).
Option 2:
Get J32A2 (CL-S/TL-S) complete cyl. heads + IM (intake manifold)
But requires different pistons (see J35/J32 below) to clear J32A2 valves.
J35A3/J35A3 (Acura MDX '01-02), J35A4/J35A4 (Honda Odyssey '02-04)
advantage: no modifications needed, great torque, nice mid-range
disadvantage: little less air flow than J32A2 but very close.
This option looks like a good choice if getting the complete engine or even separate short block and cyl. heads/manifold due to a price. And MDX the cyl. heads are the same part # as CL-S, however intake valves and cams are different than CL-S but overall much better than pathetic AV6.
J35A1/J32A2 (Odyssey '01/CL-S '01-03)
advantage: great entire powerband and especially torque.
disadvantage: Need CL-S or RL pistons.
Note: Same options apply as listed below.
J35A3/J32A2 ('01-02 MDX/CL-S '01-03) or J35A4/J32A2 (Odyssey '02-04/CL-S '01-03)
advantage: great entire powerband and especially torque.
disadvantage: Need CL-S or RL pistons.
There are also couple options:
Option 1
With '01-02 complete MDX block or '02-04 Odyssey complete block (crank/rods/pistons) it is required to purchase 2005 Acura RL pistons (new set $50 each) This is a best option still since these pistons have clearance for large 36mm J32A2 (intake) valves thus no modification needed. Despite the fact they have higher 11.0:1 CR still even supercharger can be used here with low boost up to 7psi intercooled (assuming safe AFR). In addition, if 11:1 CR is too high for you, you can use '03 CL-S pistons with 10.5:1 CR.
Option 2
'01-03 J32A2 block (CL-S)
Required to purchase the following:
-= hondaautomotiveparts.com =-
'02-'04 Odyssey (crankshaft)
Product No. 368270 or
Honda part #13310-PGK-A00
'02-'04 Odyssey (connecting rod)
Product No. 368269 or
Honda part #13210-PGK-A00
Main bearings + rod bearings
-= acuraautomotiveparts.org =-
'03 CL-S (pistons) - 10.5:1 CR or
'05 RL (pistons) - 11.0:1 CR
pistons rings (per chosen model)
Note: Odyssey pistons do not have clearance to fit large 36mm J32A2 (intake) valves. Solution - custom job to increase valve pockets.
BTW, The only advantage to get J32A2 block is due to better cylinder sleeves to withstand heat designed for higher redline vehicle, otherwise depending on the price Odyssey or MDX block are the best bet.
Keep in mind, J35A5 '03-04 MDX will not fit on 6th gen. AV6/CL/TL/CL-S/TL-S due to different design, and looks like only for 7th gen. AV6.
Edit: The correct valve dimensions now stand as follows: incl. J30A4/J32A4
J30A1 '98-02 AV6: 34mm/29mm (intake/exhaust)
J30A4 '03+ AV6: 35mm/30mm
J32A1 '01-03' TL/CL: 34mm/30mm
J32A2 '01-03 TL-S/CL-S: 36mm/30mm
J32A4 '04+ TL: 35mm/30mm
J35A1 '99-01 Odyssey: 34mm/29mm
J35A4 '02-04 Odyssey: 35mm/30mm
09-18-2008, 01:59 PM
#18
Safety Car
iTrader: (5)
J32 and J35 both use 89mm bore blocks, the J37 uses 90mm bores, the factory spec for oversizing the J32/35 block is 1mm over, thus 90mm, stick ing the J37 crank and rods and there you go. But boring the block that 1mm is thinning the sleeves about 1/6th of total sleeve thickness, therefore I would not boost this.
Why It came to a conclusion of strictly NA.
It wouldn't even be worth the resleeving with high end materials for boost.
You are right, you would have to customize the block to get the 3.7 to fit and or find a way for the whole motor and tranny to fit.
I'd still say stick with the 3.5 less work for good gains.
IMO, it's right in the middle. Best all around.
3.7-Strictly N/A
3.5-N/A or boost
3.2-High Boost
and like type R said, Stick with 3.2 for more power with boost.
To answer your question Kulrevon, you can use the 3.5 crank, rods, bearings for your motor.
Why It came to a conclusion of strictly NA.
It wouldn't even be worth the resleeving with high end materials for boost.
You are right, you would have to customize the block to get the 3.7 to fit and or find a way for the whole motor and tranny to fit.
I'd still say stick with the 3.5 less work for good gains.
IMO, it's right in the middle. Best all around.
3.7-Strictly N/A
3.5-N/A or boost
3.2-High Boost
and like type R said, Stick with 3.2 for more power with boost.
To answer your question Kulrevon, you can use the 3.5 crank, rods, bearings for your motor.
09-18-2008, 02:13 PM
#20
Safety Car
iTrader: (5)
They're has to be custom work for the 3.7 to fit. I understand that.
Why do I feel you are shooting everything I have to say down?
This is not going to be a direct swap with the 3.7 crank into a J32 motor nor a full 3.7 motor swap into a CL.
It will be custom work.
09-18-2008, 03:02 PM
#21
CL specs:
bore 89mm and stroke 96mm
3.5 in x 3.39 in
bore/stroke ratio 1.03
09 MDX specs:
90mm bore and stroke 96mm
3.40 in x 3.80 in
imo go FI or go 3.5!
the 3.7 sounds good in theory but when you actually go do it you will run into some major headaches and major problems down the road.
bore 89mm and stroke 96mm
3.5 in x 3.39 in
bore/stroke ratio 1.03
09 MDX specs:
90mm bore and stroke 96mm
3.40 in x 3.80 in
imo go FI or go 3.5!
the 3.7 sounds good in theory but when you actually go do it you will run into some major headaches and major problems down the road.
09-18-2008, 11:46 PM
#22
Lead Footed
Now this part 'adding the 3.7 heads and cams' has my interest . . . the question is, is this a fairly straight forward mod, and what are the performance trade offs?
"The really big news for this engine family in 2009 is the introduction of VTEC control for both intake and exhaust valves. This is made possible by a new multi-arm VTEC® rocker arm system for the exhaust valves.
For each cylinder (set of 4 valves), the camshaft has 6 lobes. The two center lobes (in the set of 6) actuate the intake valves - one lobe is the "high cam" lobe and the other is the "low cam" lobe. There are two exhaust lobes outside of these two center lobes. The outermost lobes are the exhaust "high cam" lobes, and the lobes closer to the center lobes are the "low cam" lobes. For each cylinder, there are a total of 4 exhaust followers and 2 intake followers, each one dedicated to a single cam lobe.
At engine speeds below 4700 rpms, the three "high cam" followers are decoupled from the valve rocker arms, while the "low cam" followers are actuating the 4 valves. Above 4700 RPM, under the correct conditions, the engine control computer signals VTEC® actuation, sending oil pressure to three locking pins, which couple the rocker arms to the "high cam" followers. This increases the lift and duration of both the intake and exhaust valves (+28% lift, +35% duration on the intake side, and +10% lift, +11% duration on the exhaust side). With this new intake/exhaust VTEC® system, more valve timing control is possible, resulting in 47 percent more valve overlap over the standard intake-only VTEC® system.
This added valve control results in improved torque production, improved emissions, more top end power, and better fuel efficiency. Additionally, the new VTEC system also uses roller cam followers, resulting in improved durability and reduced friction. "
Ruf
"The really big news for this engine family in 2009 is the introduction of VTEC control for both intake and exhaust valves. This is made possible by a new multi-arm VTEC® rocker arm system for the exhaust valves.
For each cylinder (set of 4 valves), the camshaft has 6 lobes. The two center lobes (in the set of 6) actuate the intake valves - one lobe is the "high cam" lobe and the other is the "low cam" lobe. There are two exhaust lobes outside of these two center lobes. The outermost lobes are the exhaust "high cam" lobes, and the lobes closer to the center lobes are the "low cam" lobes. For each cylinder, there are a total of 4 exhaust followers and 2 intake followers, each one dedicated to a single cam lobe.
At engine speeds below 4700 rpms, the three "high cam" followers are decoupled from the valve rocker arms, while the "low cam" followers are actuating the 4 valves. Above 4700 RPM, under the correct conditions, the engine control computer signals VTEC® actuation, sending oil pressure to three locking pins, which couple the rocker arms to the "high cam" followers. This increases the lift and duration of both the intake and exhaust valves (+28% lift, +35% duration on the intake side, and +10% lift, +11% duration on the exhaust side). With this new intake/exhaust VTEC® system, more valve timing control is possible, resulting in 47 percent more valve overlap over the standard intake-only VTEC® system.
This added valve control results in improved torque production, improved emissions, more top end power, and better fuel efficiency. Additionally, the new VTEC system also uses roller cam followers, resulting in improved durability and reduced friction. "
Ruf
09-19-2008, 12:00 AM
#23
Blown is Best
Is the sleeve in the J32/J35 even long enough to handle the additional stroke? Are J37 rods shorter than J35 rods? It would be interesting to see one of these test fitted to see if it would work without custom rods and pistons.
09-19-2008, 03:00 AM
#24
Now this part 'adding the 3.7 heads and cams' has my interest . . . the question is, is this a fairly straight forward mod, and what are the performance trade offs?
"The really big news for this engine family in 2009 is the introduction of VTEC control for both intake and exhaust valves. This is made possible by a new multi-arm VTEC® rocker arm system for the exhaust valves.
For each cylinder (set of 4 valves), the camshaft has 6 lobes. The two center lobes (in the set of 6) actuate the intake valves - one lobe is the "high cam" lobe and the other is the "low cam" lobe. There are two exhaust lobes outside of these two center lobes. The outermost lobes are the exhaust "high cam" lobes, and the lobes closer to the center lobes are the "low cam" lobes. For each cylinder, there are a total of 4 exhaust followers and 2 intake followers, each one dedicated to a single cam lobe.
At engine speeds below 4700 rpms, the three "high cam" followers are decoupled from the valve rocker arms, while the "low cam" followers are actuating the 4 valves. Above 4700 RPM, under the correct conditions, the engine control computer signals VTEC® actuation, sending oil pressure to three locking pins, which couple the rocker arms to the "high cam" followers. This increases the lift and duration of both the intake and exhaust valves (+28% lift, +35% duration on the intake side, and +10% lift, +11% duration on the exhaust side). With this new intake/exhaust VTEC® system, more valve timing control is possible, resulting in 47 percent more valve overlap over the standard intake-only VTEC® system.
This added valve control results in improved torque production, improved emissions, more top end power, and better fuel efficiency. Additionally, the new VTEC system also uses roller cam followers, resulting in improved durability and reduced friction. "
Ruf
"The really big news for this engine family in 2009 is the introduction of VTEC control for both intake and exhaust valves. This is made possible by a new multi-arm VTEC® rocker arm system for the exhaust valves.
For each cylinder (set of 4 valves), the camshaft has 6 lobes. The two center lobes (in the set of 6) actuate the intake valves - one lobe is the "high cam" lobe and the other is the "low cam" lobe. There are two exhaust lobes outside of these two center lobes. The outermost lobes are the exhaust "high cam" lobes, and the lobes closer to the center lobes are the "low cam" lobes. For each cylinder, there are a total of 4 exhaust followers and 2 intake followers, each one dedicated to a single cam lobe.
At engine speeds below 4700 rpms, the three "high cam" followers are decoupled from the valve rocker arms, while the "low cam" followers are actuating the 4 valves. Above 4700 RPM, under the correct conditions, the engine control computer signals VTEC® actuation, sending oil pressure to three locking pins, which couple the rocker arms to the "high cam" followers. This increases the lift and duration of both the intake and exhaust valves (+28% lift, +35% duration on the intake side, and +10% lift, +11% duration on the exhaust side). With this new intake/exhaust VTEC® system, more valve timing control is possible, resulting in 47 percent more valve overlap over the standard intake-only VTEC® system.
This added valve control results in improved torque production, improved emissions, more top end power, and better fuel efficiency. Additionally, the new VTEC system also uses roller cam followers, resulting in improved durability and reduced friction. "
Ruf
09-19-2008, 07:51 AM
#25
Now this part 'adding the 3.7 heads and cams' has my interest . . . the question is, is this a fairly straight forward mod, and what are the performance trade offs?
"The really big news for this engine family in 2009 is the introduction of VTEC control for both intake and exhaust valves. This is made possible by a new multi-arm VTEC® rocker arm system for the exhaust valves.
For each cylinder (set of 4 valves), the camshaft has 6 lobes. The two center lobes (in the set of 6) actuate the intake valves - one lobe is the "high cam" lobe and the other is the "low cam" lobe. There are two exhaust lobes outside of these two center lobes. The outermost lobes are the exhaust "high cam" lobes, and the lobes closer to the center lobes are the "low cam" lobes. For each cylinder, there are a total of 4 exhaust followers and 2 intake followers, each one dedicated to a single cam lobe.
At engine speeds below 4700 rpms, the three "high cam" followers are decoupled from the valve rocker arms, while the "low cam" followers are actuating the 4 valves. Above 4700 RPM, under the correct conditions, the engine control computer signals VTEC® actuation, sending oil pressure to three locking pins, which couple the rocker arms to the "high cam" followers. This increases the lift and duration of both the intake and exhaust valves (+28% lift, +35% duration on the intake side, and +10% lift, +11% duration on the exhaust side). With this new intake/exhaust VTEC® system, more valve timing control is possible, resulting in 47 percent more valve overlap over the standard intake-only VTEC® system.
This added valve control results in improved torque production, improved emissions, more top end power, and better fuel efficiency. Additionally, the new VTEC system also uses roller cam followers, resulting in improved durability and reduced friction. "
Ruf
"The really big news for this engine family in 2009 is the introduction of VTEC control for both intake and exhaust valves. This is made possible by a new multi-arm VTEC® rocker arm system for the exhaust valves.
For each cylinder (set of 4 valves), the camshaft has 6 lobes. The two center lobes (in the set of 6) actuate the intake valves - one lobe is the "high cam" lobe and the other is the "low cam" lobe. There are two exhaust lobes outside of these two center lobes. The outermost lobes are the exhaust "high cam" lobes, and the lobes closer to the center lobes are the "low cam" lobes. For each cylinder, there are a total of 4 exhaust followers and 2 intake followers, each one dedicated to a single cam lobe.
At engine speeds below 4700 rpms, the three "high cam" followers are decoupled from the valve rocker arms, while the "low cam" followers are actuating the 4 valves. Above 4700 RPM, under the correct conditions, the engine control computer signals VTEC® actuation, sending oil pressure to three locking pins, which couple the rocker arms to the "high cam" followers. This increases the lift and duration of both the intake and exhaust valves (+28% lift, +35% duration on the intake side, and +10% lift, +11% duration on the exhaust side). With this new intake/exhaust VTEC® system, more valve timing control is possible, resulting in 47 percent more valve overlap over the standard intake-only VTEC® system.
This added valve control results in improved torque production, improved emissions, more top end power, and better fuel efficiency. Additionally, the new VTEC system also uses roller cam followers, resulting in improved durability and reduced friction. "
Ruf
09-19-2008, 07:54 AM
#26
I think there is some misunderstanding, I'm really not trying to go against you.
They're has to be custom work for the 3.7 to fit. I understand that.
Why do I feel you are shooting everything I have to say down?
This is not going to be a direct swap with the 3.7 crank into a J32 motor nor a full 3.7 motor swap into a CL.
It will be custom work.
They're has to be custom work for the 3.7 to fit. I understand that.
Why do I feel you are shooting everything I have to say down?
This is not going to be a direct swap with the 3.7 crank into a J32 motor nor a full 3.7 motor swap into a CL.
It will be custom work.
09-19-2008, 11:18 AM
#27
Lead Footed
. . . oh well, thanks for letting us know.
09-19-2008, 11:30 AM
#28
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CleanCL
I was not saying you were wrong. I was just stating that other people are giving info that I am not sure is acurate.
Where did you get your info If you don't mind me asking.
I dont have the resources to find a 3.7L and do measurements. Thats why I am on here.
I was not saying you were wrong. I was just stating that other people are giving info that I am not sure is acurate.
Where did you get your info If you don't mind me asking.
I dont have the resources to find a 3.7L and do measurements. Thats why I am on here.
09-19-2008, 11:34 AM
#29
well for one, i have doen the 3.5L swap on my car.
also, i purchased a set of camshaft from the 04+RL and also a number of other people purchased parts from the newest generation J series motor, the entire length is too short to bolt up to the CL tranny. the crank shaft, camshafts, everything is shorter.
again, if you believe their information is accurate, you will be throwing a lot of money away. do yourself a favor, and search these forums, all of the angles are already covered.
also, i purchased a set of camshaft from the 04+RL and also a number of other people purchased parts from the newest generation J series motor, the entire length is too short to bolt up to the CL tranny. the crank shaft, camshafts, everything is shorter.
again, if you believe their information is accurate, you will be throwing a lot of money away. do yourself a favor, and search these forums, all of the angles are already covered.
09-19-2008, 01:52 PM
#30
the newer 3.2-3.7L blocks are shorter and that is why it won't fit the older cams crank etc
the newer J series motors have different bolt up patterns for the trans so that is the other reason it won't work
if you bore out a 3.5L to 3.7L it will work but question is how reliable will it be in the long run........
the newer J series motors have different bolt up patterns for the trans so that is the other reason it won't work
if you bore out a 3.5L to 3.7L it will work but question is how reliable will it be in the long run........
09-19-2008, 02:33 PM
#31
the newer 3.2-3.7L blocks are shorter and that is why it won't fit the older cams crank etc
the newer J series motors have different bolt up patterns for the trans so that is the other reason it won't work
if you bore out a 3.5L to 3.7L it will work but question is how reliable will it be in the long run........
the newer J series motors have different bolt up patterns for the trans so that is the other reason it won't work
if you bore out a 3.5L to 3.7L it will work but question is how reliable will it be in the long run........
09-20-2008, 04:24 PM
#32
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yes it will be very reliable but again will STRICTLY be and NA capible car. I think I might build one of these in the spring and swap it into a 98-01 Accord 5 Speed coupe if I can find one. Sure to be a consistant mid to high 12 second car if done right.
09-20-2008, 05:42 PM
#33
The 3.7 doesn't have to be strictly NA just depends on the cylinder wall construction and material: open deck closed deck, semi-closed etc. Hell the newer blocks in the 09 and up J-series are using aluminum alloy cylinder walls for better heat dissapation and they get cast right in.
If you truly build it then obviously it will be able to take boost otherwise for a budget build I can see where the concern comes in. Heck this concern is even shown by Honda themselves with the RDX turbo being a 2,3T and not 2.4 beause they debored it by putting in thicker walls.
If you truly build it then obviously it will be able to take boost otherwise for a budget build I can see where the concern comes in. Heck this concern is even shown by Honda themselves with the RDX turbo being a 2,3T and not 2.4 beause they debored it by putting in thicker walls.
09-21-2008, 08:24 AM
#34
OG 3.x^7 rawr
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well, let me tell you this. Stroking the J32 with J37 internals will work with maybe some minor skirt work because of the stroke. I think there is a big misunderstanding with the whole N/A only deal. A J32 block bored and stroked with J37 internals will be reliable on N/A. There is a chance you could boost it but I would just sleeve it closed deck to be on the safe side.
09-22-2008, 11:32 AM
#35
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Also SPoolinspOON Why do you think the crank will fit? everyone else says the block is shorter?
Also CleanCL are the pistons in the new 3.5 TL compatable with the CL block. Just because they have upped The compresion and I believe these are the highest stock compresion J series pistons.
09-22-2008, 04:01 PM
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Thats correct the 98-01 Accord weighs under 3000 and would fly with a J32as swap alone.
Point blank man you got a J32 block sitting there so I would just do the 3.5 conversion and call it a day and spend the extra money that the 3.7 might cost towards some other engine parts. I mean the 3.7 conversion has yet to be out long enough for me to make a investment in it compared how long and reliable people are running 3.5s. Just my
Point blank man you got a J32 block sitting there so I would just do the 3.5 conversion and call it a day and spend the extra money that the 3.7 might cost towards some other engine parts. I mean the 3.7 conversion has yet to be out long enough for me to make a investment in it compared how long and reliable people are running 3.5s. Just my
09-23-2008, 12:01 PM
#37
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I was doing a J32/J35 with 6spd accord tranny into A 95 prelude before I bought the CLS 6spd. 1. because I loved the prelude. and 2. because of the wieght of the prelude. That would have been nice.
09-26-2008, 01:30 AM
#39
Thats correct the 98-01 Accord weighs under 3000 and would fly with a J32as swap alone.
Point blank man you got a J32 block sitting there so I would just do the 3.5 conversion and call it a day and spend the extra money that the 3.7 might cost towards some other engine parts. I mean the 3.7 conversion has yet to be out long enough for me to make a investment in it compared how long and reliable people are running 3.5s. Just my
Point blank man you got a J32 block sitting there so I would just do the 3.5 conversion and call it a day and spend the extra money that the 3.7 might cost towards some other engine parts. I mean the 3.7 conversion has yet to be out long enough for me to make a investment in it compared how long and reliable people are running 3.5s. Just my
Either way, good luck.
09-26-2008, 08:38 AM
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That's most likely because of the weight of the engine of a 4cyl. You'd have to compare the weight of the 4cyl and the 6cyl coupe. Odds of the 6cy weighing more will more likely be because of the difference in weight of the engines. So one can assume you'll only put more weight into the car making similar to the 6cy accord. If that's the case, then one can also assume it'd be more cost effective to go with the 6cy to start with since the mounting points will already be there for you.
Either way, good luck.
Either way, good luck.