Acura/Mercedes thinking the same way
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From: burbs of philly
Acura/Mercedes thinking the same way
People whine and complain about how Acura doesn't offer RWD vehicles. Everybody knows why...... Mercedes benz has realized why as well.... I think you can expect to see IMA implemented with the ATTS system in up and comming cars from Acura.
Mercedes pushes awd 4MATIC system in effort to increase cold-weather sales
By LINDSAY CHAPPELL | Automotive News
Mercedes-Benz will begin offering all-wheel-drive versions of every one of its model classes this year in an effort to snare more cold-weather sales.
The automaker's 4MATIC system will appear on its S-class sedan and C320 wagon for the first time in 2003. The system will return to the company's E-class wagon on the 2004 model this fall.
Paul Halata, CEO of Mercedes-Benz USA Inc., said the plan had been under study for four years as a way to boost Mercedes sales primarily in northern U.S. markets.
"We think it will really help us out in a lot of markets where we are not doing as well as we think we could be doing," Halata said at the Detroit auto show. "We see it as a feature that will be more attractive in some U.S. markets than others."
Halata said that although Mercedes' U.S. sales have grown over the past few years, the brand is hampered in some cold-weather markets, especially during the winter. Mercedes models are rear-wheel drive. Consumers tend to view rwd vehicles as less manageable on snowy and wet roads.
Halata cited Boston, Detroit, Minneapolis and Buffalo, N.Y., as markets that should benefit from the addition. He declined to estimate what share of sales awd models might represent.
He also acknowledged that certain 4MATIC-equipped cars were bound to chip into Mercedes' sales of its M-class sport-utility, on which awd is standard. Mercedes has been struggling to meet world demand for the M class since its 1997 debut.
By LINDSAY CHAPPELL | Automotive News
Mercedes-Benz will begin offering all-wheel-drive versions of every one of its model classes this year in an effort to snare more cold-weather sales.
The automaker's 4MATIC system will appear on its S-class sedan and C320 wagon for the first time in 2003. The system will return to the company's E-class wagon on the 2004 model this fall.
Paul Halata, CEO of Mercedes-Benz USA Inc., said the plan had been under study for four years as a way to boost Mercedes sales primarily in northern U.S. markets.
"We think it will really help us out in a lot of markets where we are not doing as well as we think we could be doing," Halata said at the Detroit auto show. "We see it as a feature that will be more attractive in some U.S. markets than others."
Halata said that although Mercedes' U.S. sales have grown over the past few years, the brand is hampered in some cold-weather markets, especially during the winter. Mercedes models are rear-wheel drive. Consumers tend to view rwd vehicles as less manageable on snowy and wet roads.
Halata cited Boston, Detroit, Minneapolis and Buffalo, N.Y., as markets that should benefit from the addition. He declined to estimate what share of sales awd models might represent.
He also acknowledged that certain 4MATIC-equipped cars were bound to chip into Mercedes' sales of its M-class sport-utility, on which awd is standard. Mercedes has been struggling to meet world demand for the M class since its 1997 debut.
Three Wheelin'
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From: Minnesota
Re: Acura/Mercedes thinking the same way
Originally posted by Zapata
People whine and complain about how Acura doesn't offer RWD vehicles. Everybody knows why...... Mercedes benz has realized why as well.... I think you can expect to see IMA implemented with the ATTS system in up and comming cars from Acura.
<snip>
Halata cited Boston, Detroit, Minneapolis and Buffalo, N.Y., as markets that should benefit from the addition. He declined to estimate what share of sales awd models might represent.
<snip>
People whine and complain about how Acura doesn't offer RWD vehicles. Everybody knows why...... Mercedes benz has realized why as well.... I think you can expect to see IMA implemented with the ATTS system in up and comming cars from Acura.
<snip>
Halata cited Boston, Detroit, Minneapolis and Buffalo, N.Y., as markets that should benefit from the addition. He declined to estimate what share of sales awd models might represent.
<snip>
(sorry, I get excited when people talk about MN)
'Cooter
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From: Shitside, Queens
but Zapata, Honda/Acura doesn't have the ballz to make a RWD line of cars, and i doubt they're gonna do the AWD either...i think they really wanna touch on an all-around consumer instead of bias'ed towards the enthusiast sporty side...MB/BMW/Audi, etc. i think r the opposite, so their answer is AWD
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From: burbs of philly
Originally posted by Scooter
but Zapata, Honda/Acura doesn't have the ballz to make a RWD line of cars, and i doubt they're gonna do the AWD either...i think they really wanna touch on an all-around consumer instead of bias'ed towards the enthusiast sporty side...MB/BMW/Audi, etc. i think r the opposite, so their answer is AWD
but Zapata, Honda/Acura doesn't have the ballz to make a RWD line of cars, and i doubt they're gonna do the AWD either...i think they really wanna touch on an all-around consumer instead of bias'ed towards the enthusiast sporty side...MB/BMW/Audi, etc. i think r the opposite, so their answer is AWD
Right. what do you call the NSX, INSIGHT, CIVIC hybrid. All cars which were ground breaking in their own right. When Honda/Acura wants to do something they can. It would be stupid to go RWD. The majority of drivers don't care about drivetrain layout. Acura would be eliminating itself from a huge segment of the market if it chose to RWD accross the board.
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From: Minnesota
Originally posted by Zapata
Right. what do you call the NSX, INSIGHT, CIVIC hybrid. All cars which were ground breaking in their own right. When Honda/Acura wants to do something they can. It would be stupid to go RWD. The majority of drivers don't care about drivetrain layout. Acura would be eliminating itself from a huge segment of the market if it chose to RWD accross the board.
Right. what do you call the NSX, INSIGHT, CIVIC hybrid. All cars which were ground breaking in their own right. When Honda/Acura wants to do something they can. It would be stupid to go RWD. The majority of drivers don't care about drivetrain layout. Acura would be eliminating itself from a huge segment of the market if it chose to RWD accross the board.
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'Cooter
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From: Shitside, Queens
Originally posted by AcuraFan
I don't think it's that they don't care about the drivetrain...they want FWD. They handle better in bad weather and probably 99% of the drivers wouldn't push RWD enough to see the benefits. So yes, Acura will most likely stay FWD (and possibly go AWD with some models)
I don't think it's that they don't care about the drivetrain...they want FWD. They handle better in bad weather and probably 99% of the drivers wouldn't push RWD enough to see the benefits. So yes, Acura will most likely stay FWD (and possibly go AWD with some models)
from RWD to AWD it's going from fun, exciting, and sporty to more fun, exciting, and sporty
from FWD to AWD it's ehh, blah, and dull to ultimate fun, exciting, and sporty
of all the enthusiasts out there, who drives FWD??? 10%??? less maybe??? would Honda/Acura benefit going to AWD??? u better believe it...there's absolutely NOTHING AWD takes away from FWD, it just expands on the benefits of FWD...i don't understand how they CAN'T see that concept...does it just cost too much????
for sh!ts and giggles, they should just do something like with the TSX (have a trial period on a car with AWD and see the responses that come in)
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i think pretty soon in the future we'll start seeing all cars with the DNX configuration... fwd with electric motor driving the rear... 4wd, better fuel economy and more power.. hard to beat that... i'm sure it'll be here in 5 years or so
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From: Southern California
Originally posted by Zapata
Right. what do you call the NSX, INSIGHT, CIVIC hybrid. All cars which were ground breaking in their own right.
Right. what do you call the NSX, INSIGHT, CIVIC hybrid. All cars which were ground breaking in their own right.
Toyota mass-produced hybrid economy cars for consumers in 1997. The Insight was introduced in 2000 and the Civic Hybrid was introduced just this year.
I'd call all of those Honda products nice cars, but not "ground breaking."
Originally posted by Zapata
Acura would be eliminating itself from a huge segment of the market if it chose to RWD accross the board.
Acura would be eliminating itself from a huge segment of the market if it chose to RWD accross the board.
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From: burbs of philly
Originally posted by DtEW
Porsche mass-produced aluminum-bodied MR cars for consumers in 1948. The NSX was introduced in 1990.
Toyota mass-produced hybrid economy cars for consumers in 1997. The Insight was introduced in 2000 and the Civic Hybrid was introduced just this year.
I'd call all of those Honda products nice cars, but not "ground breaking."
Porsche mass-produced aluminum-bodied MR cars for consumers in 1948. The NSX was introduced in 1990.
Toyota mass-produced hybrid economy cars for consumers in 1997. The Insight was introduced in 2000 and the Civic Hybrid was introduced just this year.
I'd call all of those Honda products nice cars, but not "ground breaking."
The achievment for the NSX was groundbreaking so don't attempt to make it seem that it wasn't. For a production car.....not "mass produced" there is a difference......
Don't forget variable valve timing......
1997 to the world but you couldn't purchase the car in the states until 2001.........insight was out in 2000.
Suzuka Master
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From: Lower Nazzie, Pa
Originally posted by AcuraFan
I don't think it's that they don't care about the drivetrain...they want FWD. They handle better in bad weather and probably 99% of the drivers wouldn't push RWD enough to see the benefits. So yes, Acura will most likely stay FWD (and possibly go AWD with some models)
I don't think it's that they don't care about the drivetrain...they want FWD. They handle better in bad weather and probably 99% of the drivers wouldn't push RWD enough to see the benefits. So yes, Acura will most likely stay FWD (and possibly go AWD with some models)
Three Wheelin'
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From: Minnesota
Originally posted by Scooter
i guess what i'm getting at is the enthusiast attitude from RWD to AWD vs. FWD to AWD
from RWD to AWD it's going from fun, exciting, and sporty to more fun, exciting, and sporty
from FWD to AWD it's ehh, blah, and dull to ultimate fun, exciting, and sporty
of all the enthusiasts out there, who drives FWD??? 10%??? less maybe??? would Honda/Acura benefit going to AWD??? u better believe it...there's absolutely NOTHING AWD takes away from FWD, it just expands on the benefits of FWD...i don't understand how they CAN'T see that concept...does it just cost too much????
for sh!ts and giggles, they should just do something like with the TSX (have a trial period on a car with AWD and see the responses that come in)
i guess what i'm getting at is the enthusiast attitude from RWD to AWD vs. FWD to AWD
from RWD to AWD it's going from fun, exciting, and sporty to more fun, exciting, and sporty
from FWD to AWD it's ehh, blah, and dull to ultimate fun, exciting, and sporty
of all the enthusiasts out there, who drives FWD??? 10%??? less maybe??? would Honda/Acura benefit going to AWD??? u better believe it...there's absolutely NOTHING AWD takes away from FWD, it just expands on the benefits of FWD...i don't understand how they CAN'T see that concept...does it just cost too much????
for sh!ts and giggles, they should just do something like with the TSX (have a trial period on a car with AWD and see the responses that come in)
I think AWD would be nice...I would buy an AWD CL...but I don't think it's in the cards for Acura any time soon. Like ZodiakTL said, I too think we will see a DNX style configuration on their flagship car (RL or it's replacement) first. Then we will see that tech trickle down to the other cars.
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From: Minnesota
Originally posted by mrdeeno
and of the cars most likely to be pushed by 90% of the owners ARE rwd...namely the nsx and s2000.
and of the cars most likely to be pushed by 90% of the owners ARE rwd...namely the nsx and s2000.
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From: Lower Nazzie, Pa
Originally posted by AcuraFan
But what percentage of the market drives NSX and S2000? A very small one. A large majority of car buyers are looking for sedans that handle well in wet or dry conditions. They want safety more than performance. And those that do buy RWD (like the 3 series or G35 sedans) still just use them to get around...not so they can outperform their FWD counterpart. It's just a few enthusiasts, and there aren't as many of them as you'd think...you have to look outside your demographic to see the big picture.
But what percentage of the market drives NSX and S2000? A very small one. A large majority of car buyers are looking for sedans that handle well in wet or dry conditions. They want safety more than performance. And those that do buy RWD (like the 3 series or G35 sedans) still just use them to get around...not so they can outperform their FWD counterpart. It's just a few enthusiasts, and there aren't as many of them as you'd think...you have to look outside your demographic to see the big picture.
but i think acura NEEDs rwd or awd for one thing: STATUS.
even if 90% of owners never care that their car is fwd, rwd, or awd, acura still isn't going to get the status because car magazine editors have a hard on for rwd and awd, and they make up maybe 1% of the 10% of enthusiast who really care if a car is f/r/awd, but they are the ones published in magazines, and they're the ones that determine if XXX company is a premium brand, a performance brand, a luxury brand, or whatever.
of all the 3-series i've seen around back when i was in college, 90% of them were driven by chicks.
of all the is300's i've seen (i haven't seen too many, and none for the past 6 months 'cuz i'm in brazil), about half were driven by middle age women.
did they buy their cars 'cuz the handling and performance and whatever? maybe...you never know, but odds are they bought it 'cuz of status of the car/brand, because their husbands/boyfriends/whoever told them because he read it in a magazine somewhere or something.
it ain't politically correct, but it's probably true.
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From: Berkeley, CA
Originally posted by mrdeeno
...of all the 3-series i've seen around back when i was in college, 90% of them were driven by chicks.
of all the is300's i've seen (i haven't seen too many, and none for the past 6 months 'cuz i'm in brazil), about half were driven by middle age women.
did they buy their cars 'cuz the handling and performance and whatever? maybe...you never know, but odds are they bought it 'cuz of status of the car/brand, because their husbands/boyfriends/whoever told them because he read it in a magazine somewhere or something.
it ain't politically correct, but it's probably true.
...of all the 3-series i've seen around back when i was in college, 90% of them were driven by chicks.
of all the is300's i've seen (i haven't seen too many, and none for the past 6 months 'cuz i'm in brazil), about half were driven by middle age women.
did they buy their cars 'cuz the handling and performance and whatever? maybe...you never know, but odds are they bought it 'cuz of status of the car/brand, because their husbands/boyfriends/whoever told them because he read it in a magazine somewhere or something.
it ain't politically correct, but it's probably true.
Three Wheelin'
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From: Minnesota
And BMW wouldn't have that status if were FWD? I think they would.
Besides, Acura is not interested in a couple people's opinion of status. They're interested in safe, family vehicles that are just more luxurious versions of their Honda cars.
They are looking at the mass market, not the few people who think you need RWD to be considered a luxury car. That's how they've been doing it for years, that's how they'll continue to do it.
IMHO
Besides, Acura is not interested in a couple people's opinion of status. They're interested in safe, family vehicles that are just more luxurious versions of their Honda cars.
They are looking at the mass market, not the few people who think you need RWD to be considered a luxury car. That's how they've been doing it for years, that's how they'll continue to do it.
IMHO
Three Wheelin'
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From: Minnesota
You know, I'm not completely down on RWD. I have my sights set on an M3 in the next couple years. However, like I've said before, I will never own a RWD car as my primary transportation. The benefits of RWD do not outweigh the drawbacks. I think that's the case for a majority of American buyers and I think that's why Acura has not switched to a RWD platform. They make great primary transportation vehicles. The CLS has most of the benefits of a sports sedan but non of the drawbacks.
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WHich hybrid car did toyota mass produce ? THe prius did not come out until 2001.
Originally posted by DtEW
Porsche mass-produced aluminum-bodied MR cars for consumers in 1948. The NSX was introduced in 1990.
Toyota mass-produced hybrid economy cars for consumers in 1997. The Insight was introduced in 2000 and the Civic Hybrid was introduced just this year.
I'd call all of those Honda products nice cars, but not "ground breaking."
Then that segment of the market is something that BMW and Mercedes have been doing without for a long time. But then consider that BMW has been offering AWD for quite awhile now (3-series), and Mercedes had been offering it just recently (E-class 4-Matic). Non-SUV AWD versions of both marques only make up a tiny percentage of sales relative to the RWD mainstays.
Porsche mass-produced aluminum-bodied MR cars for consumers in 1948. The NSX was introduced in 1990.
Toyota mass-produced hybrid economy cars for consumers in 1997. The Insight was introduced in 2000 and the Civic Hybrid was introduced just this year.
I'd call all of those Honda products nice cars, but not "ground breaking."
Then that segment of the market is something that BMW and Mercedes have been doing without for a long time. But then consider that BMW has been offering AWD for quite awhile now (3-series), and Mercedes had been offering it just recently (E-class 4-Matic). Non-SUV AWD versions of both marques only make up a tiny percentage of sales relative to the RWD mainstays.
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From: burbs of philly
Originally posted by nguyendminh
WHich hybrid car did toyota mass produce ? THe prius did not come out until 2001.
WHich hybrid car did toyota mass produce ? THe prius did not come out until 2001.
Toyota had it 1997.....but they didn't bring to the U.S. Market until 2001 because they wanted to "guage" interest. Either way....Insight was in the U.S. Market first
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From: Pa
Originally posted by DtEW
Then that segment of the market is something that BMW and Mercedes have been doing without for a long time. But then consider that BMW has been offering AWD for quite awhile now (3-series), and Mercedes had been offering it just recently (E-class 4-Matic). Non-SUV AWD versions of both marques only make up a tiny percentage of sales relative to the RWD mainstays.
Then that segment of the market is something that BMW and Mercedes have been doing without for a long time. But then consider that BMW has been offering AWD for quite awhile now (3-series), and Mercedes had been offering it just recently (E-class 4-Matic). Non-SUV AWD versions of both marques only make up a tiny percentage of sales relative to the RWD mainstays.
And back on the RWD vs. FWD topic, I WOULD NEVER BUY A RWD CAR AGAIN. The negatives of rwd cancel the few minor positives. Now, AWD would be nice, but I don't mind FWD.
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From: New York
Originally posted by Zapata
The achievment for the NSX was groundbreaking so don't attempt to make it seem that it wasn't. For a production car.....not "mass produced" there is a difference......
Don't forget variable valve timing......
1997 to the world but you couldn't purchase the car in the states until 2001.........insight was out in 2000.
The achievment for the NSX was groundbreaking so don't attempt to make it seem that it wasn't. For a production car.....not "mass produced" there is a difference......
Don't forget variable valve timing......
1997 to the world but you couldn't purchase the car in the states until 2001.........insight was out in 2000.
Know what I mean.....
???????????????????????
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From: New York
Originally posted by AcuraFan
....I will never own a RWD car as my primary transportation. The benefits of RWD do not outweigh the drawbacks......
....I will never own a RWD car as my primary transportation. The benefits of RWD do not outweigh the drawbacks......
Other than snow traction, there really aren't many that concern the driver/owner. And that can be cured by a set of dedicated snow tires. I've owned several RWD vehicles that were awesome in the snow with good snow tires.
I can't think of any real negatives besides that. From an engineering point of view, FWD is packaged more effeciently, but RWD offers better front/rear balance.
For the enthusiast, there are MANY more benefits of RWD over FWD.
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Cost Drivers!!!!
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From: burbs of philly
Originally posted by Tom2
Hey, when did you start stealing my writing style.....
Know what I mean.....
???????????????????????
Hey, when did you start stealing my writing style.....
Know what I mean.....
???????????????????????
Baehae shit dunno
We seem to be doing alot of the same lately.....what do they say about great minds?
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From: Lower Nazzie, Pa
Originally posted by AcuraFan
And BMW wouldn't have that status if were FWD? I think they would.
And BMW wouldn't have that status if were FWD? I think they would.
But IF (big IF) bmw's were fwd, would they still be the ultimate driving machine? would they still be #1 in most comparisons? would they have the perfect balance that most car review editors rave about?
hey, from what i know, most of the top premium makes (mb, bmw, lex, jag, audi) are rwd or offer awd throughout their lineup. and most of these premium makes are praised by editors and reviewers because of their handling and anytime it's compared with a fwd car, the editor makes it explicitly known it's already at a disadvantage.
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From: NYC
Originally posted by Zoot
No you have it confused there buddy. MB has had 4matic on the E-class since the 80's. They dropped the 4Matic system for a while, until the last generation E was introduced. BMW however just started using awd in the 3 series a few years ago....
And back on the RWD vs. FWD topic, I WOULD NEVER BUY A RWD CAR AGAIN. The negatives of rwd cancel the few minor positives. Now, AWD would be nice, but I don't mind FWD.
No you have it confused there buddy. MB has had 4matic on the E-class since the 80's. They dropped the 4Matic system for a while, until the last generation E was introduced. BMW however just started using awd in the 3 series a few years ago....
And back on the RWD vs. FWD topic, I WOULD NEVER BUY A RWD CAR AGAIN. The negatives of rwd cancel the few minor positives. Now, AWD would be nice, but I don't mind FWD.
Three Wheelin'
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From: Minnesota
Originally posted by Tom2
Just curious- What exactly do you think are all these "drawbacks" of RWD?
Other than snow traction, there really aren't many that concern the driver/owner. And that can be cured by a set of dedicated snow tires. I've owned several RWD vehicles that were awesome in the snow with good snow tires.
I can't think of any real negatives besides that. From an engineering point of view, FWD is packaged more effeciently, but RWD offers better front/rear balance.
For the enthusiast, there are MANY more benefits of RWD over FWD.
Just curious- What exactly do you think are all these "drawbacks" of RWD?
Other than snow traction, there really aren't many that concern the driver/owner. And that can be cured by a set of dedicated snow tires. I've owned several RWD vehicles that were awesome in the snow with good snow tires.
I can't think of any real negatives besides that. From an engineering point of view, FWD is packaged more effeciently, but RWD offers better front/rear balance.
For the enthusiast, there are MANY more benefits of RWD over FWD.
What are the benefits? Better handling on twisty roads on dry pavement? That's fun and all...but a frivalous benefit at best.
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From: Nashua, NH, USA
The next RDX is for sure to be considered as revolutionary... more performance than a coupe... seats 4, AWD and cost less some $30k... It would the first Honda Sports Crossover... Really nice... let us see if it would have a 3.5L 300HP engine....
Three Wheelin'
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From: Minnesota
Originally posted by Nashua_Night_Hawk
The next RDX is for sure to be considered as revolutionary... more performance than a coupe... seats 4, AWD and cost less some $30k... It would the first Honda Sports Crossover... Really nice... let us see if it would have a 3.5L 300HP engine....
The next RDX is for sure to be considered as revolutionary... more performance than a coupe... seats 4, AWD and cost less some $30k... It would the first Honda Sports Crossover... Really nice... let us see if it would have a 3.5L 300HP engine....
Wow, I'll have what he's having!
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From: New York
Originally posted by AcuraFan
That's just it...handling in adverse weather. Snow, rain, ice...if you hadn't noticed, I live in Minnesota. We have two seasons, winter and road construction. Yes, snow tires help but it is no substitute for FWD. Getting special equipment to make something a little less hazardous is no excuse. I know someone in that worked for the MN state patrol and he has said that by far RWD is responsible for more accidents than front.
What are the benefits? Better handling on twisty roads on dry pavement? That's fun and all...but a frivalous benefit at best.
That's just it...handling in adverse weather. Snow, rain, ice...if you hadn't noticed, I live in Minnesota. We have two seasons, winter and road construction. Yes, snow tires help but it is no substitute for FWD. Getting special equipment to make something a little less hazardous is no excuse. I know someone in that worked for the MN state patrol and he has said that by far RWD is responsible for more accidents than front.
What are the benefits? Better handling on twisty roads on dry pavement? That's fun and all...but a frivalous benefit at best.
Tires are a much more important factor driving in adverse weather conditions such as snow and ice than drivetrain configuration.
I'd take a RWD car with snow tires on the snow/ice over a FWD car with all-season tires in the snow/ice any day. Of course, if both cars had snow tires, the advantage would go to the FWD car simply because more weight is over the drive wheels. But like I said, the tires are the most important factor.
I also think there are MUCH more benefits to RWD than just better handling.
In my opinion, a RWD car is much more fun to drive. You can step the tail out with the throttle (impossible to do with a FWD) which is something that's a lot of fun during spirited driving, as long as you can handle it.....
In a FWD car, you're asking the world of the front tires-- You want them to provide acceleration forces, turning forces and the majority of braking forces. A RWD car splits it up......
A RWD car shifts it's weight over the drive wheels when accelerating.....and FWD car removes weight from over it's drive wheels while acclerating.
Call me biased, but RWD is still considered superior to FWD on a car meant to really be driven.
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From: burbs of philly
Originally posted by Tom2
I disagree.....
Tires are a much more important factor driving in adverse weather conditions such as snow and ice than drivetrain configuration.
I'd take a RWD car with snow tires on the snow/ice over a FWD car with all-season tires in the snow/ice any day. Of course, if both cars had snow tires, the advantage would go to the FWD car simply because more weight is over the drive wheels. But like I said, the tires are the most important factor.
I also think there are MUCH more benefits to RWD than just better handling.
In my opinion, a RWD car is much more fun to drive. You can step the tail out with the throttle (impossible to do with a FWD) which is something that's a lot of fun during spirited driving, as long as you can handle it.....
In a FWD car, you're asking the world of the front tires-- You want them to provide acceleration forces, turning forces and the majority of braking forces. A RWD car splits it up......
A RWD car shifts it's weight over the drive wheels when accelerating.....and FWD car removes weight from over it's drive wheels while acclerating.
Call me biased, but RWD is still considered superior to FWD on a car meant to really be driven.
I disagree.....
Tires are a much more important factor driving in adverse weather conditions such as snow and ice than drivetrain configuration.
I'd take a RWD car with snow tires on the snow/ice over a FWD car with all-season tires in the snow/ice any day. Of course, if both cars had snow tires, the advantage would go to the FWD car simply because more weight is over the drive wheels. But like I said, the tires are the most important factor.
I also think there are MUCH more benefits to RWD than just better handling.
In my opinion, a RWD car is much more fun to drive. You can step the tail out with the throttle (impossible to do with a FWD) which is something that's a lot of fun during spirited driving, as long as you can handle it.....
In a FWD car, you're asking the world of the front tires-- You want them to provide acceleration forces, turning forces and the majority of braking forces. A RWD car splits it up......
A RWD car shifts it's weight over the drive wheels when accelerating.....and FWD car removes weight from over it's drive wheels while acclerating.
Call me biased, but RWD is still considered superior to FWD on a car meant to really be driven.
HUH, interesting.....how your WINTER car is 4x4........
Unregistered Member
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 3,472
Likes: 45
From: New York
Originally posted by Zapata
HUH, interesting.....how your WINTER car is 4x4........
HUH, interesting.....how your WINTER car is 4x4........
Besides, I'm not getting any salt on MY car
It stays in the garage when the roads are shitty/salt covered.A guy I work with bought a Z06 Vette last week. He drives it to work every day so far.....and it's caked with salt. What a bonehead......
Thread Starter
Cost Drivers!!!!
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 19,392
Likes: 1
From: burbs of philly
Originally posted by Tom2
Yeah, the first 4x4 I've ever owned. And I must say that I'm very impressed with it's snow traction. I've had it in about 16 inches of snow (with the stock all season rubber) and it was unstoppable
Besides, I'm not getting any salt on MY car It stays in the garage when the roads are shitty/salt covered.
A guy I work with bought a Z06 Vette last week. He drives it to work every day so far.....and it's caked with salt. What a bonehead......
Yeah, the first 4x4 I've ever owned. And I must say that I'm very impressed with it's snow traction. I've had it in about 16 inches of snow (with the stock all season rubber) and it was unstoppable
Besides, I'm not getting any salt on MY car
It stays in the garage when the roads are shitty/salt covered.A guy I work with bought a Z06 Vette last week. He drives it to work every day so far.....and it's caked with salt. What a bonehead......
Caked with salt.....
Unregistered Member
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 3,472
Likes: 45
From: New York
runnerx,
Question for you-
How would your dealer have your car in early February, when it will be built so late in January? Are they really that quick? I thought it took longer than that.......
Question for you-
I ordered a 2003 Acura CL Type-S 6 speed manual with navigation system. Acura will start to build my car in 20th of Jan and it should arrive at my dealer early Feb.
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,754
Likes: 0
From: Minnesota
Originally posted by Tom2
I disagree.....
Tires are a much more important factor driving in adverse weather conditions such as snow and ice than drivetrain configuration.
I'd take a RWD car with snow tires on the snow/ice over a FWD car with all-season tires in the snow/ice any day. Of course, if both cars had snow tires, the advantage would go to the FWD car simply because more weight is over the drive wheels. But like I said, the tires are the most important factor.
I also think there are MUCH more benefits to RWD than just better handling.
In my opinion, a RWD car is much more fun to drive. You can step the tail out with the throttle (impossible to do with a FWD) which is something that's a lot of fun during spirited driving, as long as you can handle it.....
In a FWD car, you're asking the world of the front tires-- You want them to provide acceleration forces, turning forces and the majority of braking forces. A RWD car splits it up......
A RWD car shifts it's weight over the drive wheels when accelerating.....and FWD car removes weight from over it's drive wheels while acclerating.
Call me biased, but RWD is still considered superior to FWD on a car meant to really be driven.
I disagree.....
Tires are a much more important factor driving in adverse weather conditions such as snow and ice than drivetrain configuration.
I'd take a RWD car with snow tires on the snow/ice over a FWD car with all-season tires in the snow/ice any day. Of course, if both cars had snow tires, the advantage would go to the FWD car simply because more weight is over the drive wheels. But like I said, the tires are the most important factor.
I also think there are MUCH more benefits to RWD than just better handling.
In my opinion, a RWD car is much more fun to drive. You can step the tail out with the throttle (impossible to do with a FWD) which is something that's a lot of fun during spirited driving, as long as you can handle it.....
In a FWD car, you're asking the world of the front tires-- You want them to provide acceleration forces, turning forces and the majority of braking forces. A RWD car splits it up......
A RWD car shifts it's weight over the drive wheels when accelerating.....and FWD car removes weight from over it's drive wheels while acclerating.
Call me biased, but RWD is still considered superior to FWD on a car meant to really be driven.
It's interesting, last time it snowed I was on the freeway...traffic had slowed because of the weather...I'm rolling along in my worn all seasons no problem...not an iota of slippage, but up ahead of me I saw some pickups and rwds with some decent tires on them slipping and fishtailing. Yes, the type of tires makes a difference...a big difference. But it's still the drive configuration that will make the difference when it counts. Your path is still controlled by your drive tires. In certain curcumstances, in emergancy ice conditions, the front tires of a RWD car because nothing more than dead weight...and the rear tires are kicking right now (the part you like so much)...bad news. Traction control helps, but again, it's adding equipment to compensate for FWD inherent safety.
You said the RWD has much more benefits than just handling but then proceeded to describe a handling benefit (and something that 90% of Acura buyers would never do)...give me something else to go on.
Like I said, I'm not against RWD as a fun second car. But I'm glad Acura will not go FWD.
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