6-month clear coat cure time?
07-04-2003, 11:44 AM
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6-month clear coat cure time?
Is it true that you're not supposed to wash your car for 6 months because the clear coat takes 6 months to "cure"? What happens if you do wash your car within those 6 months? Does it damage the clear coat? This is the first time I've heard of this. I figured since these are such new cars and such, this kind of wait time for clear coats would have been eliminated.
07-04-2003, 01:45 PM
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I doubt if many wait 6 months to wash their car. I'm not an automotive car paint expert, but i believe the clear coat is cured pretty hard when it leaves the factory.
An old wives tale
An old wives tale
07-04-2003, 02:11 PM
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Yeah, just be careful...
No dirty sponges or abrasive cleaners.
I'm sure something like Zaino or Liqiuid Glass would be fine to use as they aren't abrasive. Plus,,,by the time you get your car, it's probably aleady been built for over six months anyhow.
No dirty sponges or abrasive cleaners.
I'm sure something like Zaino or Liqiuid Glass would be fine to use as they aren't abrasive. Plus,,,by the time you get your car, it's probably aleady been built for over six months anyhow.
07-04-2003, 02:19 PM
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Zig: Whoever told you this truely has a head full of banana oil.
If you had to wait that long just to WASH the car, I would be wondering how many months the manufacturer would have to wait before they could even HANDLE the car without damaging it!
I probably know more about paint, water based, solvent based and powder coating than anybody here. I do it for a living in R&D.
Addressing liquids only, formulating paint is a gigantic balancing act. The end user, Acura in this case wants a paint that sets up, or cures rapidly so they can handle the car efficiently. On the other hand, for a beautiful finish, the paint can not set up so quickly that it does not "flow out" for a smooth finish. If the flow is too slow, the paint never cures. If it is too fast, the finish will have a lot of orange peel.
Usually the paint is formulated to dry very quickly, but this is dangerous, especially with solvent born paints. The only purposes of the solvent is to A: dissolve the dry ingredients into a liquid form and B: provide a "vehicle" to get the paint onto the metal. If solvents are used that evaporate too fast, the car would appeared to be "dry sprayed" and have a sandpaper like texture. 30 years ago, this was a common defect in car paint that was governed by a complex equation of temperature, humidity, % solvents in the paint, solvent type used, and the human paint applicator. The solution was to "rub out" the car with rubbing compound and brother, if you want to experience pure misery, rub out a car the size of a CL by hand. I guarantee you, one car would last you a lifetime.
To solve these problems of fast drying paint, "retarders" are used to slow the drying time, and after the finish "levels out", the painted body is subjected to heated ovens and infrared emitters that drive the retarders out and the paint is cured, completely, probably 15 minutes after application.
Another thing to consider is dirt. And the definition of anything that is not paint is DIRT. Human hairs, flaked skin (the "dust" in your house is airborne, flaked skin cells) is dirt. So, the manufacturer wants first, a beautiful finish and second, a quick cure time.
Powder coatings are a different animal, indeed. Your wheels are powder coated. Powder coatings are a 100% solvent free system and has huge advantages over liquid paints. Ground the part to be painted (- charge), charge the powder (+ charge), spray powder, and the paint is drawn like a magnet to the target. After enough heat is applied over a period of time (1 to 15 minutes, depending on the type of heat source, bang, you are done, and the paint properties are fully developed.
OK, I'm done. And, while not trying to belittle you for your question (questions are good), just think about how rediculous this sounds:
1: The manufacturing reasons stated above:
2: The new Acuras (and others) come to the dealer heavily masked with a pressure sensitive plastic sheet to prevent shipping damage. Admittedly, the PS adhesive is low tack. But the painting process only happens after very much labor is put into the car. Do you think for one minute any car maker would attach sticky sheets to the car, capable of pulling the paint off of the car? The manufacturer would have an instant, $30,000 reject on their hands.
3: ASSUMING your car was delivered new, was it given to you squeaky clean, or did the dealer tell you "don't wash the car for six months so the paint can cure." Sheesh!
I can assure you, if you do NOT wash your new car for six months, you are gonna be mighty unhappy with your paint finish.
Tip: When you wash your car, wash it from the top down, use ONLY a chamois or baby diapers (washed with a softener first, and every time), and do the wheels last. Whatever your method, have two sets of each, one for the body, one for the wheels where a lot of abrasive grit accumulates.
I know no other way to explain this to you and the others on this board, but here it is: automotive paint is really a modern marvel, and it is so very tough. Millions of man hours have gone into researching it. But still, it can be so very fragile, it depends upon what it is exposed to chemically (bird shit, acid rain), and mechanically (belt buckles, women's long fingernails).
Treat your paint like you treat your oil changes. To operate well, they need attention at particurlar intervals. Hope this explains things to you and others.
If you had to wait that long just to WASH the car, I would be wondering how many months the manufacturer would have to wait before they could even HANDLE the car without damaging it!
I probably know more about paint, water based, solvent based and powder coating than anybody here. I do it for a living in R&D.
Addressing liquids only, formulating paint is a gigantic balancing act. The end user, Acura in this case wants a paint that sets up, or cures rapidly so they can handle the car efficiently. On the other hand, for a beautiful finish, the paint can not set up so quickly that it does not "flow out" for a smooth finish. If the flow is too slow, the paint never cures. If it is too fast, the finish will have a lot of orange peel.
Usually the paint is formulated to dry very quickly, but this is dangerous, especially with solvent born paints. The only purposes of the solvent is to A: dissolve the dry ingredients into a liquid form and B: provide a "vehicle" to get the paint onto the metal. If solvents are used that evaporate too fast, the car would appeared to be "dry sprayed" and have a sandpaper like texture. 30 years ago, this was a common defect in car paint that was governed by a complex equation of temperature, humidity, % solvents in the paint, solvent type used, and the human paint applicator. The solution was to "rub out" the car with rubbing compound and brother, if you want to experience pure misery, rub out a car the size of a CL by hand. I guarantee you, one car would last you a lifetime.
To solve these problems of fast drying paint, "retarders" are used to slow the drying time, and after the finish "levels out", the painted body is subjected to heated ovens and infrared emitters that drive the retarders out and the paint is cured, completely, probably 15 minutes after application.
Another thing to consider is dirt. And the definition of anything that is not paint is DIRT. Human hairs, flaked skin (the "dust" in your house is airborne, flaked skin cells) is dirt. So, the manufacturer wants first, a beautiful finish and second, a quick cure time.
Powder coatings are a different animal, indeed. Your wheels are powder coated. Powder coatings are a 100% solvent free system and has huge advantages over liquid paints. Ground the part to be painted (- charge), charge the powder (+ charge), spray powder, and the paint is drawn like a magnet to the target. After enough heat is applied over a period of time (1 to 15 minutes, depending on the type of heat source, bang, you are done, and the paint properties are fully developed.
OK, I'm done. And, while not trying to belittle you for your question (questions are good), just think about how rediculous this sounds:
1: The manufacturing reasons stated above:
2: The new Acuras (and others) come to the dealer heavily masked with a pressure sensitive plastic sheet to prevent shipping damage. Admittedly, the PS adhesive is low tack. But the painting process only happens after very much labor is put into the car. Do you think for one minute any car maker would attach sticky sheets to the car, capable of pulling the paint off of the car? The manufacturer would have an instant, $30,000 reject on their hands.
3: ASSUMING your car was delivered new, was it given to you squeaky clean, or did the dealer tell you "don't wash the car for six months so the paint can cure." Sheesh!
I can assure you, if you do NOT wash your new car for six months, you are gonna be mighty unhappy with your paint finish.
Tip: When you wash your car, wash it from the top down, use ONLY a chamois or baby diapers (washed with a softener first, and every time), and do the wheels last. Whatever your method, have two sets of each, one for the body, one for the wheels where a lot of abrasive grit accumulates.
I know no other way to explain this to you and the others on this board, but here it is: automotive paint is really a modern marvel, and it is so very tough. Millions of man hours have gone into researching it. But still, it can be so very fragile, it depends upon what it is exposed to chemically (bird shit, acid rain), and mechanically (belt buckles, women's long fingernails).
Treat your paint like you treat your oil changes. To operate well, they need attention at particurlar intervals. Hope this explains things to you and others.
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07-04-2003, 07:26 PM
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meguiar's is a pretty good wax from what i've seen, i've used it on my integra, and now on my CL. But I'm about to take the step up to zaino. Tests have shown its superiority, even if the cost is a bit more.
07-04-2003, 10:29 PM
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Meguiars is just wax...
Liquid Glass is a polymer based product, totally non-abrasive...completely different.
I used to use Meg's years ago(Gold Class & professional), but Liquid Glass is 100X better. Or...if you want to spend the additional money, buy Zaino.
There really is no comparison between a polymer shine & regular wax. If you want the "mirror finish", go with a polymer.
I used to use Meg's years ago(Gold Class & professional), but Liquid Glass is 100X better. Or...if you want to spend the additional money, buy Zaino.
There really is no comparison between a polymer shine & regular wax. If you want the "mirror finish", go with a polymer.
Originally posted by joeandcarol2
Does the Meguirs product (liquid class?) have any abrasives? Its the product that gives a very mirror like finish.
Does the Meguirs product (liquid class?) have any abrasives? Its the product that gives a very mirror like finish.
07-04-2003, 11:06 PM
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What I have heard from several but not necessarily reliable sources is not that the paint/clear coat is not cured to the point where factory ps plastic would peel off paint - that's ridiculous - but that it takes up to six months for the finish to COMPLETELY cure. The advise was to avoid abrasives and harsh detergents as much as possible in the first six months with a new car or with a newly painted section of a car. Still, I suspect that even this may be all crap as well.
07-04-2003, 11:31 PM
#12
Dfreder, I am curious about powdercoating .Why do auto manufacturers not use this system instead of regular paint? It seems from what I have seen powder coating can take far more abuse than regular paint .
Jens
Jens
07-05-2003, 04:07 AM
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Dual and Jens: Dual, you are by no means incorrect. Paint can take a long time to "cure". But most paints are 90% cured when they leave the factory. With powder coatings, as long as they are done correctly, they are 100% cured, and can be subjected to any abuse that is required.
Jens: Powder coatings are indeed durable, but as compared to the industry standard, has a lot of orange peel. PC car bodies are about 2 years away.
Jens: Powder coatings are indeed durable, but as compared to the industry standard, has a lot of orange peel. PC car bodies are about 2 years away.
07-05-2003, 11:22 AM
#14
Cost Drivers!!!!
Originally posted by dfreder370
Zig: Whoever told you this truely has a head full of banana oil.
If you had to wait that long just to WASH the car, I would be wondering how many months the manufacturer would have to wait before they could even HANDLE the car without damaging it!
I probably know more about paint, water based, solvent based and powder coating than anybody here. I do it for a living in R&D.
Addressing liquids only, formulating paint is a gigantic balancing act. The end user, Acura in this case wants a paint that sets up, or cures rapidly so they can handle the car efficiently. On the other hand, for a beautiful finish, the paint can not set up so quickly that it does not "flow out" for a smooth finish. If the flow is too slow, the paint never cures. If it is too fast, the finish will have a lot of orange peel.
Usually the paint is formulated to dry very quickly, but this is dangerous, especially with solvent born paints. The only purposes of the solvent is to A: dissolve the dry ingredients into a liquid form and B: provide a "vehicle" to get the paint onto the metal. If solvents are used that evaporate too fast, the car would appeared to be "dry sprayed" and have a sandpaper like texture. 30 years ago, this was a common defect in car paint that was governed by a complex equation of temperature, humidity, % solvents in the paint, solvent type used, and the human paint applicator. The solution was to "rub out" the car with rubbing compound and brother, if you want to experience pure misery, rub out a car the size of a CL by hand. I guarantee you, one car would last you a lifetime.
To solve these problems of fast drying paint, "retarders" are used to slow the drying time, and after the finish "levels out", the painted body is subjected to heated ovens and infrared emitters that drive the retarders out and the paint is cured, completely, probably 15 minutes after application.
Another thing to consider is dirt. And the definition of anything that is not paint is DIRT. Human hairs, flaked skin (the "dust" in your house is airborne, flaked skin cells) is dirt. So, the manufacturer wants first, a beautiful finish and second, a quick cure time.
Powder coatings are a different animal, indeed. Your wheels are powder coated. Powder coatings are a 100% solvent free system and has huge advantages over liquid paints. Ground the part to be painted (- charge), charge the powder (+ charge), spray powder, and the paint is drawn like a magnet to the target. After enough heat is applied over a period of time (1 to 15 minutes, depending on the type of heat source, bang, you are done, and the paint properties are fully developed.
OK, I'm done. And, while not trying to belittle you for your question (questions are good), just think about how rediculous this sounds:
1: The manufacturing reasons stated above:
2: The new Acuras (and others) come to the dealer heavily masked with a pressure sensitive plastic sheet to prevent shipping damage. Admittedly, the PS adhesive is low tack. But the painting process only happens after very much labor is put into the car. Do you think for one minute any car maker would attach sticky sheets to the car, capable of pulling the paint off of the car? The manufacturer would have an instant, $30,000 reject on their hands.
3: ASSUMING your car was delivered new, was it given to you squeaky clean, or did the dealer tell you "don't wash the car for six months so the paint can cure." Sheesh!
I can assure you, if you do NOT wash your new car for six months, you are gonna be mighty unhappy with your paint finish.
Tip: When you wash your car, wash it from the top down, use ONLY a chamois or baby diapers (washed with a softener first, and every time), and do the wheels last. Whatever your method, have two sets of each, one for the body, one for the wheels where a lot of abrasive grit accumulates.
I know no other way to explain this to you and the others on this board, but here it is: automotive paint is really a modern marvel, and it is so very tough. Millions of man hours have gone into researching it. But still, it can be so very fragile, it depends upon what it is exposed to chemically (bird shit, acid rain), and mechanically (belt buckles, women's long fingernails).
Treat your paint like you treat your oil changes. To operate well, they need attention at particurlar intervals. Hope this explains things to you and others.
Zig: Whoever told you this truely has a head full of banana oil.
If you had to wait that long just to WASH the car, I would be wondering how many months the manufacturer would have to wait before they could even HANDLE the car without damaging it!
I probably know more about paint, water based, solvent based and powder coating than anybody here. I do it for a living in R&D.
Addressing liquids only, formulating paint is a gigantic balancing act. The end user, Acura in this case wants a paint that sets up, or cures rapidly so they can handle the car efficiently. On the other hand, for a beautiful finish, the paint can not set up so quickly that it does not "flow out" for a smooth finish. If the flow is too slow, the paint never cures. If it is too fast, the finish will have a lot of orange peel.
Usually the paint is formulated to dry very quickly, but this is dangerous, especially with solvent born paints. The only purposes of the solvent is to A: dissolve the dry ingredients into a liquid form and B: provide a "vehicle" to get the paint onto the metal. If solvents are used that evaporate too fast, the car would appeared to be "dry sprayed" and have a sandpaper like texture. 30 years ago, this was a common defect in car paint that was governed by a complex equation of temperature, humidity, % solvents in the paint, solvent type used, and the human paint applicator. The solution was to "rub out" the car with rubbing compound and brother, if you want to experience pure misery, rub out a car the size of a CL by hand. I guarantee you, one car would last you a lifetime.
To solve these problems of fast drying paint, "retarders" are used to slow the drying time, and after the finish "levels out", the painted body is subjected to heated ovens and infrared emitters that drive the retarders out and the paint is cured, completely, probably 15 minutes after application.
Another thing to consider is dirt. And the definition of anything that is not paint is DIRT. Human hairs, flaked skin (the "dust" in your house is airborne, flaked skin cells) is dirt. So, the manufacturer wants first, a beautiful finish and second, a quick cure time.
Powder coatings are a different animal, indeed. Your wheels are powder coated. Powder coatings are a 100% solvent free system and has huge advantages over liquid paints. Ground the part to be painted (- charge), charge the powder (+ charge), spray powder, and the paint is drawn like a magnet to the target. After enough heat is applied over a period of time (1 to 15 minutes, depending on the type of heat source, bang, you are done, and the paint properties are fully developed.
OK, I'm done. And, while not trying to belittle you for your question (questions are good), just think about how rediculous this sounds:
1: The manufacturing reasons stated above:
2: The new Acuras (and others) come to the dealer heavily masked with a pressure sensitive plastic sheet to prevent shipping damage. Admittedly, the PS adhesive is low tack. But the painting process only happens after very much labor is put into the car. Do you think for one minute any car maker would attach sticky sheets to the car, capable of pulling the paint off of the car? The manufacturer would have an instant, $30,000 reject on their hands.
3: ASSUMING your car was delivered new, was it given to you squeaky clean, or did the dealer tell you "don't wash the car for six months so the paint can cure." Sheesh!
I can assure you, if you do NOT wash your new car for six months, you are gonna be mighty unhappy with your paint finish.
Tip: When you wash your car, wash it from the top down, use ONLY a chamois or baby diapers (washed with a softener first, and every time), and do the wheels last. Whatever your method, have two sets of each, one for the body, one for the wheels where a lot of abrasive grit accumulates.
I know no other way to explain this to you and the others on this board, but here it is: automotive paint is really a modern marvel, and it is so very tough. Millions of man hours have gone into researching it. But still, it can be so very fragile, it depends upon what it is exposed to chemically (bird shit, acid rain), and mechanically (belt buckles, women's long fingernails).
Treat your paint like you treat your oil changes. To operate well, they need attention at particurlar intervals. Hope this explains things to you and others.
07-06-2003, 12:11 PM
#15
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Re: Meguiars is just wax...
Originally posted by chris3240929
Liquid Glass is a polymer based product, totally non-abrasive...completely different.
I used to use Meg's years ago(Gold Class & professional), but Liquid Glass is 100X better. Or...if you want to spend the additional money, buy Zaino.
There really is no comparison between a polymer shine & regular wax. If you want the "mirror finish", go with a polymer.
Liquid Glass is a polymer based product, totally non-abrasive...completely different.
I used to use Meg's years ago(Gold Class & professional), but Liquid Glass is 100X better. Or...if you want to spend the additional money, buy Zaino.
There really is no comparison between a polymer shine & regular wax. If you want the "mirror finish", go with a polymer.
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