Cubana19

I just got a price sheet from the Acura dealer for the 30000 service when I went in to get the wipers fixed under warranty. It costs $289.99 (before tax). It mostly includes a lot of checking and inspecting and not much replacing.
The replacing aspects include:
* oil change
* replace engine oil filter
* replace oil drain crush washer
* lubricate suspension bushings
* replace engine air filter
* replace A/C micron filters
* remove debris from a/c inlet box
* replace transmission fluid
* replace windshield wipers refills
* reset onboard computer maintenance reminder

The guy there stressed to me that replacing the transmission fluid (part of the service) is very important because the CL Type S has "a very complex transmission and if you don't service it, it can cause internal damage." He then went on to say that the guy who worked on my car (for the wiper problem) recommended that I also do a fuel injection service ($148) and a brake hose flush ($90). Bottom line, if I did everything the guy told me to do I would be out about $550!

I feel like it's a bit excessive but again, this is my first Acura and my first "sports" car.

What do yu guys think?

Thanks to all those who respond.

Lee

Zapata

That seems a bit excessive. It comes down to finding a good dealer. If they are top notch then the money is worth it. If they don't know jack, then you're pissing you money away.

Slimey

Seems like an average charge for 30K service, but, FWIW:

Oil Chage + Filter + Lube - $20-$30

Crush Washer - $0.20

Wiper refills (do they really need changing?) $10 - 20

Air filter $40 (expensive)

reset onboard maintanence reminder (I cannot believe that this is considered a feature of the service!) free (see FAQ)

As far as A/C service, I don't know how much this is worth. I think that an auto tranny drain goes for $30 - $50 retail, but I've never owned a auto car.

I wouldn't mind paying $300 for 30K service, but know what you are getting. It seems criminal to list things like crush washer or resetting lights as a feature of the service. It's like saying, "we'll even drive your car into the bay for you", and hyping that as a feature.

tuleman

I ran into the same crap with my 30k dealer service.
I found a certified private shop, they did all of that for 175.00
The only thing I had to do myself, was replace the A/C filters.
It was very easy...

mistacanyon

I'm not getting the 30k service. It just doesn't seem worthwhile to me. You can do a lot of that stuff on your own for much cheaper. I did have the transmission fluid changed at 24k, just before summer. Sometime soon I will have the A/C filters changed and lub the suspension.

Fabvsix

First off Lee, the the CLS is NOT a sport car ! It is a "sporty" luxary coupe !
Second, that list of thing to be done is ludicris ! Should be NO more that 300 bucks !

Find another dealership !

mlrspwr

The 30k service that I got at an Acura dealership only cost $175. It pays to shop around if you can because different shops set their own prices. I saw another shop wanted $250 for the same service. So, prices vary significantly!

Slimey

Maybe this should be the start of a different thread, but:

Is there any value in having routine maintanence done at the Acura dealer to maintain the car for warranty issues?

Many of the routine inspections and fluid changes can be done at home with little difficulty. I can look for a torn CV boot change the air filter as well as any mechanic.

I'll pick something as simple as an oil change. Can Acura refuse to do warranty service on an engine because there is no 'Acura' documentation of routine oil change. I know a lot of people opt to do the oil change themselves - does this hurt you when it comes to possible warranty work later on?

How about auto tranny oil change? Has anyone done this outside of Acura and then had Acura give them grief about providing warranty service for the slushbox?

gohawks63

They're trying to rip you off!

The oil & filter change is about $20 (the crush washer costs $.25!). A dealer quoted me $54 to drain and replace the A/T fluid. The micron air filters cost about $25, and figure $35 for labor (i.e. $70 per hour labor and I've read that it's a maximum 30 minute job). You can get a cheaper engine air filter from Pep Boys, but even if you bought it from Acura, I think they're around $35-$40.


So now I'm up to about $174.

I don't know what kind of lubrication they do to the bushings, I've never heard of that unless they spray a little silicone on them.

Replace your wiper inserts only if you need to.

That leave up to $200 to inspect, at the $70 an hour, that's close to three hours of looking. I must be in the wrong line of work!

What's this all about, it's a new one to me ! Does it consist of brushing the leaves (if any exist) of off the inlet by the wipers!? Puh-lease.


All this consists of is pressing your trip and reset buttons at the same time while you turn the key to the "on" position, 20 seconds of work. Yeah why aren't they charging you for "visual confirmation of mileage indicator" (read the odometer!)?

Fuel injection service by most dealers involves dumping fuel injection cleaner into your tank. I'd find out what this involves, $148 seems way out of line to me.

As for the brake fluid flush, it is common knowledge that it is a good idea to periodically flush the brake fluid in todays cars in order to protect the expensive ABS components from moisture. I had it done on my last car ('93 Vigor), and I think it cost me something like $60.

If I were you I'd run, not walk, I'd run to another dealer!

Nicky Pass

These services are just a way for car dealers to make easy money. I just had my 15K service done just to get the tranny fluid changed.

alenda26

This is a quote from the service manager at Acura of Avon in CT.
Is this really that expensive? I can understand how some prices may differ... but from what I am reading here, this is a little out of range!


There are two levels of service available for the 30,000 mile service.

The Preferred (most comprehensive) Service is $484.00 plus tax. The Intermediate (minimum) is $360.50 plus tax.

acura_service

i find it hard to believe that everyone keeps talking about resetting the service light, its a part of the service, its a part of every service but they don't charge extra for it, its not even broken down into the whole price, "its just a part of doing the service" - they don't list walking to parts dep't to bring parts back to service bay, but its a part of the service"

plus everyone harps on dealers, well those nice big buildings that you drive into cost money, so does employee benifits, don't forget about insurance - everyone is sue happy these days, cost of doing business with acura, special tools (that the side garages won't pay for) training - all that has to be spread somewhere - yes its in the labor rate but they don't make a killing like all of you suspect. when you get done taking this and that out of it there isn't a whole lot left, don't forget rent, most divisions of a dealership pay rent to thier own company.

plus how about that scratch wasn't there when i brought it in, well some people are honest and accidents can happen, but you would not believe what people have tried to pull over on me over the years, when i wipe the roadspray from a rain days ago away from the paint that is missing, they just look at me, and think some people get items repaired that they don't deserve - its like shoplifting prices go up when expenses go up

(quick note: we provide pick up and delivery, the delivery guy told me he was picking up a volvo, and he noticed the right front fender was scraped pretty pad like someone had backed into it, so before driving away, he walked back into the doctors office and informed the receptionist that the car was damaged - oh we know about that its been like that for a couple of months, the doctor hit a guardrail with it, so the driver told me when he was delivering the car back and pulled into the doctors parking spot, the doctor came running outside pointing and yelling look what you did to my car - you people are going to have to fix that. the drivier said i didn't do that and you know it, i informed the girl at the desk before i took it - he was like - oh ahhh ok. thats only one incident, but had we repaired that and charged it back to the shop - well you could imaging with almost 300 cars a day going through our shop and even one a day, the cost would have to be recouped somewhere - that is a small reason why labor rates can be increased ( i look every car over when going out to get the milage)

did anyone ever pay for a legal consultation? - ask some questions for big bucks? does that not sound right? - how about a plumbers service visit to your house? or an appliance repair man.

everything cost money these days

i do think brake fluid flushes are a good service to have done, i used to flush and change brake fluid all the time on a regular basis on my racebike, my friend does it on his racecar often also

AztecRol

iTrader: (2)

Well put Ac-Service!!!! I like the part with the Dr and the Volvo!!!
CLASSIC!!!! Hopefully everyone here will look at the dealers a little different!!!

acuraboy_RENAMED

no offense to you guys trying to defend ack service shops but c'mon people. anyone who's ever spent any time at all near dealers/service shops knows that the service shop is the cash cow of the operation. owners of these places are not idiots. if the profitability of service shops were so slim as is suggested here then why wouldn't these guys just opt to sell and not service them. the profit margin of selling a car is almost laughable compared to servicing them. the profit income is typically in the neighborhood of 30% sales and 70% from servie/parts. u think the tech working on your car is actually making the labor rate you're being charged? i understand it's a business and all but it is a little abusive and dealers have way too much authority in deciding what will covered by warranty and what won't.

acura_service

sorry, but you have no idea what you are talking about, typically most service shops struggle to break even with there monthly expenses, sales and body shops and then parts are usually the bread winners in a dealership

example: many of you may have a favorite technician that you request work on your car, this happens pretty much anywhere. you make an appt for and oil and filter change, but request tech A to work on your car, sure they say, maybe tech A is making 22.00 per hour, your lube, oil, and filter change is costing you 19.95 + tax the flat rate time is going to be .4 to perform the service, you have say 4.75 for a filter, 1.00 for crush washer, 6.50 for oil your now left with 7.70 for labor - but your paying tech A $8.80 to do the oil change, should you be told that due to cost and saleries you cannot have a skilled tech do your oil change, you have to have the "new" aprentice do it because we don't pay him much per hour, no of course not, they will do it to make you happy

sales has typically rent, and utilities, most don't pay thier salespeople unless they sell cars, and they get a percentage from the gross, so alot less overhead in a sales building.

when you sell a car, remember warranty's, tax title tags are extra so basically the salesman is the main person that got a cut from the sale of your car, now in service, you have the warranty clerks, the cashiers, the service advisors, the car wash people, the porters, the technicians, and management that all take a piece of the pie, and service work is usually at a reduced maint rate not the rate you see posted so there is less to take from, then you have building expense, rent, utilities - that 70.00 bucks and hour really doesn't go a long way after all

Zapata

acura_service,
Well put. Yeah, the amount they were asking that dude does seem a bit much.


Cubana19 ,
I would definetly find another dealership, who you know does good work, and try and find a better price.

pv22clif

acura_service

you are completely right and i agree with you 110%.

acuraboy_RENAMED

well i'm just speaking from what i've found from the past 5 years auditing dealer warranty claims.



in that time i've never seen a dealer that doesn't pay a salesperson ANYTHING unless they sell cars. they may receive a nominal salary but they do get something.

so you're saying that service and parts shops of a dealership doesn't pay rent and untilities for their space and bays and heters and compressors and such? you only mentioned that sales pay these costs.

the stock warranty isn't extra. are u talking about extended warranty? and even then the dealer always makes out on warranty. they bill manufacturers for everything from parts to filling the 2 ounces of washer fluid that the vehicle was missing on delivery. as for sales, i would say the owner fo the dealership typically gets the big piece of the pie. throw in the insane CSI and volume perks and you have dealers preactically getting a car for free every so often.

sounds like the dealership you're describing may have a few too many employees there. i know the delaers in my region don't have the redundant positions of porters and clerks. a little multi-tasking can go a long way.

just my observation but i suppose everyone has their own way of running a business.

peace

acura_service

its funny i was talking to my boss at work about the forum, and how people thought the service department makes so much money, he said it is a cash cow, but the expenses can be pretty big against the profits, i forgot a whole bunch of stuff that comes out of the hourly rate the customer pays - here is some stuff, and i'm sure i'm still missing some things

floormats and seatcovers to protect the interiors: $40.00 a box
rubber gloves for the techs to keep cars clean
adp repair orders .07 a copy
paper its printed on
service advisors
porters
technicians
follow up personel (phone call - how was your service visit)
cashiers
stamps and envelopes to mail you follow up surveys, specials
staples, pens pencils, paper clips
computer equipment - we pay thousands a month just in MB alone
essential tools, if they are essential, you get them with a bill
warranty clerks
people that do the filing
water, electricity, soap for carwash
tool room personel
maintenance dept for building
lift repairs and periodic maintenance
waste oil feels (safety clean)
waste coolant (safety clean)
training - schools, hotels, food money etc...
tool alowances for technicians
service managers
department rent
department utilities
cable tv, coffee donuts, bagles for the lounge
upkeep on building
loaner cars
loaner car service, fuel, tires we have many loaners various mfgs
adp monthly service fee for computer systems
pick up and delivery personel

like i said i'm sure i missed some things, but all that has to come out of the 60-70 dollar an hour fees your getting charged, and usually maint rates are much lower, so there is not alot left over after the above is taken out

there are alot of smaller garges with very capable people (our employees come from all walks of life and i would never put down a technician that didn't work for a dealership - there are good and bad everywhere) but they don't have the overhead of a larger dealership, so in turn they can charge lower rates, esp if they are using aftermarket parts, they are much cheaper than oem, but if you have a good tech at a dealer, they will have all the resources and tools at there disposal to do the job right, plus a direct line to technicial assistance if need be, other places just can't match that, but those are the reasons cost is usually more, but at least if its a big name, and something is wrong they will want to take care of it, so they don't get a reputation, plus everthing is backed up in paper files, and in computer history, so you have ammunition if something is not done to your likeing

i'm sure some of you had an idea that there are some associated expenses with a service department in a dealership, but maybe you didn't think of all the things i have listed, you have to deal in volume to make it, or some may think to gouge people, but they will quickly get a reputation for that sort of thing, until nobody wants to go there (as mentioned some have higher prices on the 30,0000 - just shop around. and find someone that you trust and you know will do the job right,

acura_service

alot of salesman take a draw against there commision checks, many dealers don't pay there salesman anything - if they don't sell any cars, they are required to pay them minimum wage, but if you can't sell cars, you will be dissmissed after a short time

every department will pay for its space, i haven't heard of a dealer that doesn't have that in place

makes out on warranty? - warranty sucks big time, warranty flat rate is a RIP OFF! - and topping off fluids is part of pre-delivery inspection, if you have to charge out p/s fluid (something with a part number instead of shop supplies like washer fluid) you do it with an opcode, but with no time allowed. because the factory forgot it, you should donate your time to help them out.

we are a multi-franchise dealership automall with 13 franchises so we can't have the warranty clerks doing their job and washing the customers cars, with the amount of repair orders we generate on a daily basis, (over 300 cars in for service a day) each person has ther own job, plus other "multi-task" responsibilities, they cut people a few years back, and we still need each and every person employed there

only high end vehicles (and not all) compensate technicians on flat rate time, they understand that if you pay less than adequate times to repair vehicles you will get alot of parts changing and guessing, if you pay a technician the right amount of time, they will be thorough and do it right the first time because they are not in a rush to beat the clock (its not a contest, but if you worked 40 hours and got paid for 32 you might rethink your work habits)

gohawks63

Acura_service:

I have no problems, (for the most part, see my $31.00 oil change thread ) with what the dealers charge for legitimate service. What really ticks me off is when I go in and the dealer quotes me some ridiculous amount for a recommended service, and most of the stuff is not even mentioned in the owners manual. For example fuel injector cleaner, or changing the tranny oil MUCH sooner than the manual calls for. Now I'm figuring that them pushing the tranny oil changes is to help prevent some of the tranny problems.

I understand that the "free" car washes, loaner cars, "free" pick-up and delivery have to come from somewhere. On the TL forum, someone mentioned that Lexus charge $50 for an oil change on the LX470! Toyota charges me $19 for my Land Cruiser and we all know that they are the same car! Now they may not wash my car, but usually dealer car washed are not worth $30 (price difference between Toyo and Lex).

Next time a Lexus owner tells me about the free car washes and complimentary breakfasts, I'll remember to tell them that for the $30 that I save for my oil changes, I can have the "Mother of all breakfasts"!

JimBob

Dealers are price gougers. There really is no debate about this. If there wasn't so much competition dealerships would charge $80-$100 for an oil change. Many companies have found out how to make a nice profit off of $25 oil changes. Dealers will and do take advantage of consumers/customers who think they need to maintain their warranties by having all work done at the dealerships.
I do not buy this story of the suffering dealership struggling with high-overhead, insurance costs and expensive top-notch equipment. Some of the best, most professional and experienced mechanics I've known work at their own shop, have the necessary equipment and don't charge $300 to look your belts. I cannot feel any sympathy for dealerships.
I understand the need for profits and capitalism but most dealerships will charge you for muffler bearings if they could. There is little honesty or integrity in that business whether it's KIA, Acura or Mercedes.

acura_service

we compare our maint prices to surrounding dealers and aftermarket shops through regular phone calls (shopping) ask your local guy if he pays $5,000.00 a month for mercedes benz computer equipement. and if you bothered to "READ" the above text you would know i already said there are very good techs in the aftermarket area, and yes they have much less overhead thats a proven fact

btw we don't charge 300 dollars for looking at belts

"Jimbob" ignorance is not bliss - some of those professional and experienced top-notch mechanics, call our dealership daily to ask to speak to a technician for help on problems they can't fix and its not that they are not good mechanics, but being unfamiliar with a certain product and lack of product training causes this. so i guess somebody someone out there had the same thing in mind saying dealers are ripoffs, they take it to a independant shop, who had to call us to ask questions on how to fix the car, i guess nobody ever thinks of that!

acura_service

i'm just curious what you do for a living?

acura_service

i hear ya, the only thing i might be able to help explain that one is, i never see a lexus customer at our dealership, they are like 99% pick up and delivery and drop off a loaner - maybe thats why its so much more, lexus requires lexus loaners - i know they are not cheap - but i see your point same vehicle, same service

i just don't like to hear that dealers charge more for no reason, our auto mall cost 20 million to build, i know the local guy working in a small shop does not have that kind of expenses, it won't matter in the near future independants will be driven out (thats not a good thing either in case anyone is wondering) due to the complexity of vehicles and special equipement - most mb models do not even have dip sticks anymore, and mb dealers are the only people authorized to change brake pads on the 03 SL500, it can't be done without das equipement which is dealer only, as cars get more and more complicated i see a trend happening here

gohawks63

Not so sure about that. My uncle has his own shop in the city (Chicago), and he has more business than he can handle. It's almost like a cult following. I think it comes down to the fact that people trust him, he doesn't try to sell them anymore service (I guess he doesn't have to), and the job is done right. This is all the more amazing when you consider that he doesn't give loaner cars, and unless it's a very minor job, he usually tells people, "It might be done in a day or two, I'll call you". He rarely gives a definite time of completion.

I would go to him more, but it just isn't geographically convenient, he never wants to take any money from me, but because of that, I usually have to wait a looong time to get work done, 'cause paying customers come first (understandable).

As far as complexity goes, my cousins (who work there too) are constantly going to school to keep up to date on the latest advancements, but quite honestly, he isn't usually working on late model MB S classes. Although he did work on one of his customer's Ferrari 308.

acuraboy_RENAMED

acura_service, i think ur fighting an uphill battle. posing the question of what someone does for a living or that is someone READ a prior post tend to be signs of slippage.

i mentioned before that i audit warranty claims by dealers such as the one for which you work and assess CSI ratings. aside of working for an automaker and seeing the chasm between what dealers pay for cars and what they sell them for, my uncles also work for one of the biggest honda dealers in the north east. Jimbob didn't say that dealers charge $300 for no reason. profit and capitalism was noted. maybe you can strike up some business for your fiscally ailing shop by giving us all a special a-cl service cost plan? how much does Motorwold charge for A, B and C service?

i agree that bigger shops tend to cost more relative to independants but indies shell out some serious cash as far as tools and electronics. and obviously dealers have sources of income that indies don't, namely car theft...i mean sales. an acura shop will see something inthe range of 5 - 10 families or lines of vehicles generaly in the 6 year old or younger range. indies will see foreign, domestic, new, old, stock, modded, carbed and efi and so forth. that's a lot of tools, code readers and service manuals. on top of that, they don't have the onvenience of the electronic communications that techs get from manufacturers in the form of service fixes or other internal messages.

i dunno acura_service, just my firsthand observations.

as for the 03 SL500 issue, do you find that owners of the 03 SL500 are heartbroken that they can't change their own pads? of the three relatives of mine that drive them (03 and older), they're only too happy to hand over the keyes to a dealer. that actually brings up another interesting point. most german cars have actually begun to include regularly scheduled maintenence in the purchase of a new vehicle. forget german, even freaking lincolns include regular service. i know brakes are not covered by these plans but if i didn't have to pay for an oil change or rotation or whatever for 4 years and was picked up and dropped off at work, i'd gladly pay almost anything for a brake job. see how that works?

JimBob

I have no idea how what I do for a living makes a bit of difference in this conversation.
Talking about cars is like talking about religion everyone has their set opinions and that's it. I just know that I've dealt with many relig... er cars such as BMW, Nissan, and now Acura and in every case the dealerships tried to play underhanded games with the numbers, they have huge ranges in prices for the same services and they are pretty much done with niceness once you've had your car for a bit. All I can do is arm myself with as much information from as many sources as possible and go in for battle. Unless you run the dealership yourself even a person working for that dealership will not get a straight story and know all the fun and games that go on "behind the curtains". I will say it again, their isn't much honesty or integrity in that business.

EricL

Yes, being well informed is a must with car repairs these days...

acura_service

i was just curious, i take it personally that someone thinks i am a ripoff, i have NEVER reccomended anything that was not needed or reccomended by the mfg, as for fiscally ailing shop, i never said anything about that, i just explained there are alot of unseen cost that most people don't know about, thats why dealers or any business for that matter sets the prices they do

its a free country, if you don't like dealers then don't go to one, i don't know of too many dealers that are hurting for work, i'm backed up 2 1/2 weeks right now

as for working for a company that does audits, i have only seen a couple of audits (not my carline - thank god) - but the factory brought in their own people, never saw anyone who worked for an independant do it

as for honesty and integrity - your going to the wrong business, i know several people who work for lower priced auto repair chains, you should hear the things i have heard first hand from them.

bottom line if you don't trust your dealer, don't go to them

acura_service

based on your prior text, i doubt it, you seem to have a chip on your shoulder about dealerships. your going to the wrong dealer

acura_service

you stated that dealers are price gougers, maybe your a doctor or a lawyer - there are alot of profesions that overcharge severly for what they do, maybe your a regular 9-5'r - i've heard people who are doctors say dealers are rip-offs only to get an itemized breakdown of thier fees - 300.00 to have you watch there finger move back in front your face after you wake up from surgery - ya know what i mean (i couldn't believe that one when i was in the hospital stay)

Slimey

Dude, your world is really skewed if you consider a physician and a mechanic to be equals.

I would say the education, training, liability, expertise, and a number of intangibles don't even make it close.

Most of us that post on this board can change the oil, turn a twisty-clicky thing, rotate tires, follow the step-by-step instructions in the manual or TSB -- not many of us can repair a tendon in your finger and make it work again.

Not a good analogy.

Smitty

[QUOTE]Originally posted by acura_service
[B]i find it hard to believe that everyone keeps talking about resetting the service light, its a part of the service, its a part of every service but they don't charge extra for it, its not even broken down into the whole price, "its just a part of doing the service" - they don't list walking to parts dep't to bring parts back to service bay, but its a part of the service"



ALL you have to do to reset the service light is hold down both buttons for 5 seconds when you turn the cars ignition to the ON position.... What is so hard about that????

tuleman

Acura-Service..
You seem to be getting your feelings hurt. Don't.
You had a long list of expenses a few posts back that a service dept pays.
Disposal fees are charged to the customer.
Cable T.V. and coffee... Not at my dealership. They have 2 plastic patio chairs.
I think you forgot to list toilet paper. Why should I pay for soap.
Tools, soap, etc are all tax deductions for the company.
I called 4 dealerships when I was looking for my 30K service.
Prices ranged from $430 - $580.00. Try to justify it however you want. $430.00 for an oil change and rotate the tires is a rip off. This did NOT include a tranny fluid change.
Sorry I just don't see it.

Perhaps if the number of warranty issues were lower they could charge less on things really needed.

This is not aimed at you alone.... It is Acura service as a whole.

Scrib

I think it'd be great if an addition could be made to the FAQ for RANGES of what people here have paid in the past for 15K, 30K, etc. services and what is done at each???

Opinions???

acura_service

tuleman, your right, that is alot, i don't think our 30 comes close to it, although i do write for MB service and not acura

guys, sometimes i take things personally, as a service advisor, i have never sold anyone anything they didn't need or that wasn't reccomended, i try to do everything i can (within reason of course) i know we shop other dealers and aftermarket to remain competative, i guess some dealers are gougers but if my dealer offers all the above mentioned, and we are still competative with our maint services i guess we are a little better than others, so i understand your frustrations about dealers, and i will try not to take it personally, i was just letting all of you know there are a ton of associated expenses (as with any business) that most people don't see or even know about - and that is how just about any business arrives at thier prices

this is an internet forum, and "everyone" is entitled to there own opinions, whether some of us or none of us agree with them

the key is to find anyone you trust and does the job right when it comes to vehicle maintenance and repairs nomatter where they work

btw the doctor thing, was reffering to my stay in the hospital, i was reading over the billing and my heath care was charged like 297.00 for the doctor holding up a finger in front of me and wathing my eyes follow it back and forth, it took like 7 seconds, and i'm sure anyone of us on the board could have done that and said i was ok, i mean thats alot easier than changing oil, and rotating tires plus alot quicker

EricL

Priceless -- to personally know the guy who is working on your car; that they know what they are doing; and do what they say they are doing is worth ever penny.

(This is hard to do at "some" dealers, due to the "heirarchy" of the organization...)


Doctors, mechanics, accountants, engineers, programmers, etc, etc -- good ones and bad ones...


AND

SOS again. There are Drs out there who spend 5-minutes with you and your still screwed. (Wait until you have the pleasure of finding an Health network where you can spend days on the phone. ) And then there are Drs who will charge even more, but spend 10-minutes and know exactly how to keep you from dying in ER or critical care (if you can afford not being tossed into the street...) [Mechanic analogy can be applied here] And finally, don’t forget the 12-years (or so) of schooling/training…

If you think that Dr. experience was bad, imagine if you had a "Dr's Service Advisor", "Dr’s Service Manager" and "Dr’s Regional Rep" to talk to when you got so sick that you're calling from the pay-phone on skid row...


AND

Perhaps your practitioner was reading the latest edition of:

http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill...ungdoctor.html

acuraboy_RENAMED

the reason why doctors and lawyers charge so much is probably because they have to find some way to afford the inordinately high labor rates when they get the brakes changed on their 03 SL500s.

the vicious circle comes to an end

acura_service