typeR

First I'd like to start by thanking Doug Foss (syncivic) for all his assistance during the install process ...

though many of us are dissappointed in not having access to Mods like ,RES and MMII. this mod you did indeed come through on ,and it is everything and more that you promised it to be.

this install is a professional Job, one the likes of Scalbert and maybe EricL could handle themselves, for us mere mortals leave it to your machanic...

the car runs as if it were stock,Idles the same ,just as smooth,it does however have a slighly deeper(but not louder) tone that with just a few passing days becomes the new norm and is no longer recongnizable...gas milage for me has not changed,i do most of my driving in the city and a typical tank for me before the install was 270 to the rear 290, so far that hasnt changed.,

at speed again this car behaves in everyway as if it were stock or atleast I/H ...but step on the gas and it is appearant that something indeed has changed....at 4500 RPM's is where i notice the biggest difference,It pulls with such strenght yet it's still a smooth delivery continuing past redline...to those of you that read my track time posts ,I've become addictated to the track, and go almost every week...I've done many burn outs,and the tranny (my second) shows no signs of failure (the first tranny was replaced well before the new engine).

a stock cl typeS at an 1/8th mile track probablly goes between 10.0 and a high 9.7 after headers,intake,and tires, i went a best 9.433 @75.** 9.7 to 9.4 is a really large difference believe me a .1 is big... last week i managed an 8.969 @79.35 for those of you that dont know, this is a big number, certainly 13.9** in the 1/4 and this on stock wheels and street tires and no weight reduction (except spare and jack which i have left out since day one) If i break torque and give it full throttle, I am able to spin the tires loose for 660 ft, thats the entire lenght of the 1/8th. this car is fast...faster than almost anybody would think...a good friend,a major mustang guy,and owner of a paint and body, where he does work for the big boys, i mean 1000+hp dragsters, expected maybe a tenth, tenth and a half improvement...i cant begin to tell you how impressed he is, as well as myself,. I dreamed about an 8.9 expecting 9.1 ... and i know theres more there, If i can really hook up...I will be getting light weight wheels soon,either rays TE-37's or the SSR comps 17/7.5 or /8 when this happenes before X-mas, I will post a solid 13 sec 1/4 for those of you that have been patiently waiting for me to make the 100 mile trip...

in short or i should say in long...to anyone concidering this ,I think it's the best upgrade for the money 2500$ plus install and you will not need any additional parts except oil and coolant,all gaskest supplied,it is a straight bolt on no modifactions needed.
any questions hammer away...
Scalbert ...are you next? i know a 6mt can go 8.7** with this and that would translate to a 13.7 maybe even .6 1/4.

Steve
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JasonT

Does the engine cover fit anymore? Don't see it on.

typeR

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Chaptorial

Sounds like in the end you think its worth the price, and thats what matters. Glad to hear its running good and looking forward to seeing the 13.9 at the 1/4 mile track.

Gator CL-S

I normally don't care about labels, but if it is a 3.5, i think you should get rid of the 3.2....unless you are going to race people by tricking them into thinking it is a 3.2...

Zapata

Translate into english please............

typeR

doug foss is the manufacturer of RES and MMII and the 3.5L upgrade short block kit...as you know RES and MMII have yet to be released but this is available to anyone that wants it

typeR

installed its 2000 less than the super charger and under normal boost I'd say i could take the s/c'd cl typeS it's be a good race...

SinnedTL

does it fit the non type-s models??? and what kind of gains...

typeR

one more pic

typeR

yes it would fit,the gains i expect would be ,the precentage difference,between stock typeS and non..im guessing but if i were 315 crank hp now , you'd be 290 assuming headers intake and exhaust...it's biggest gains are in torque

Black CL-S 4-Life

Nice review...now take her to a 1/4 mile track! :P

Zapata

Ah! thanks sir i thought you said res and MMII would be out.....

CLS2001_97124

Nice!! Well this ever be avilable in the westcost?

typeR

its available on any coast

Nashua_Night_Hawk

how about a $60 dyno..... your dyno...

typeR

coming soon...

Bluto

Install ... ?.. pull the motor and rebuild it on the new short block? Something of a weekend project with the knowledge and correct tools?

MtBikR

Who performs the installation out here? Do we order the parts from doug?? and then find someone who wants to expirement?

CL SLeePeR

typeR,

Do you any any specs on the block? What pistons where used, what kind of machine work was performed? etc. Does Doug still offer the Gen II version. Better yet a number that he can be reached at would be good. I'd like as much information as possible about the package(s) and what it offers.
Thanks,
David

ferizzo

TypeR,

Sounds like ther performance is there but my question is in the gains of hp and torque. I've heard about the 315 hp at the crank, but it sounds like you have the headers and intake as well. I thought those alone would bring you up to about 300 hp and some 240-250 ftlbs at the crank? I guess the Dyno would tell more so I'll wait for that.

AGPExTreMe

how much was it for your install type R??

typeR

my install went 20 hours at 75 per ...pm me for dougs number and re the dyno the big gain is in torque not so much hp a cl will dyno around 200 lbft with headers and intake ive seen a dyno of this set up with headers and intake but its not my dyno so some want an independant dyno done which ill do...if you wanna check out the dyno section you can compare mikes dyno probablly the best dyno of cl-S with h/i and a 3.5L and you'll see a big bump in torque ...
last this is a complete assembled kit all one ahs to do is find a qualified machanic to install the short block...it is a straight bolt on and go...

ItalianStallion

how is Crown Acura treating you as far as warranty stuff goes?

JRock

Awesome. I see you have I/H along with the 3.5L so of course you're at 13.9 even with an auto trans. Gains in torque are expected with displacement gains, but how well the auto trans will handle that only time will tell. Keep us informed. Glad someone is out there pimping the 3.5L upgrade!

RAdams

I'm jealous! Seriously though, nice times. Now get your ass down to Moroso to a full quarter mile track.

EricL

AS mentioned, you can get it shipped anywhere you want to.

For California folks -- It is not CARB'd.

But, I asked some questions about emissions, etc:

1. I was told that an Acura Tech would not be able to tell that the 3.5L short block has been exchanged for the stock/original block.

2. The emission output (CO/HC/NO) are supposed to be within 3%. I don't think it was a simulation of the CA emission test, but within 3% was the number I was given.

EricL

I for one, would not be pulling the thing in and out of my car. My back and nerve damage would prevent that (I've already pulled and/or dropped out one too many engines, heads, and trannies). As for the "acumen" required to supervise it, that is another matter. A well-equipped home garage, or garage with the right tools should be able to handle the job. It's not like you need to drill holes in the engine wall, modify the ECU, and/or get out a dead blow hammer to make room in a few critical locations. You just need a "careful" R/R job. (I’d keep Larry Moe and Curly and other “clown acts” away)

Perhaps Scalbert would do it himself...

scalbert

I've been looking for this post.

Looks and sounds like you are really enjoying it all while abusing those tires. Keep us up to date on the status and get us that 1320 time.

typeR

so far no problems,they did the install ,and everything is basically covered

Nashua_Night_Hawk

If I remeber correctly... Acura Dealers charge Acura for 8 hrs to replace the engine block undre warranty... 20 Hrs is way to much!!

scalbert

Yea, if I do this my father-in-law and I would do the install. It has been a while since pulling an engine (last one was dropped, '76 Chevy Van) but should be fun... I would suspect that it would take the entire weekend but one question would remain; since it is pulled would it make since to work the heads??

Who knows, it'll be a little bit before I decide on this mod so I'll just sit back and enjoy typeR's kills!!

typeR

well you maybe be confusing exchanging an entire engine for just the short block...,its quiet abit more work...

RAdams

The block code would read J35A1 so if the tech's eyes happened upon that, the game would be up. I wouldn't think that'd happen too often, but the last Honda factory-assembled shortblock I saw (from an Integra Type R) came out of the box with the engine code "highlighted" with bright orange paint -- that'd be hard to miss.

Even if you could get the orange paint off (I'm sure it's not too difficult) they'd probably be more apt to believe you if you "play dumb" versus thinking that you actually replaced a perfectly good shortblock in your $30k car :p

typeR

mine didnt come painted but mine is a j35A4 oddessey

EricL

That's what Doug told me within the last couple of weeks when I asked him if there was ANY difference (from the outside of the block) that could be detected by an Acura Tech or others in the know...

I would have preferred an "I don't know" and will take your word for the J35A.

Now I'm wondering about the comment about the emissions...

I was very clear about what I asked...

typeR

if you look in your engine bay right by the right front bank of the headers you can see where its engraved J32A2 i think mine says J35A4 unless they were looking for it to be different or there were a reason to verify the engine code i dont think they would give it a second look...if you know what i mean

RAdams

Well, in Doug's defense it probably slipped his mind -- he wouldn't ever intentionally mislead you. The blocks are otherwise indistinguishable. The thing to keep in mind here is that there's always the chance that SOMEONE is going to notice that SOMETHING has been played with. Check around your engine bay and take notice of all of the nuts/bolts with white or blue or yellow stripes/marks on them -- I'm assuming that's a visual confirmation for the people assembling the car/doing QC that the particular nut/bolt was torqued to spec during production but it sure makes it easy to tell if a nut/bolt has been removed and reinstalled, too. Is the block swap 100% undetectable? No. Would you be using proven OEM parts engineered by Honda -- the "reliability" company? Yes. (No tranny comments -- they don't make them)

Also, as for the emissions, keep in mind that each of the aforementioned vehicles that comes with the 3.5L motor from the factory meet or exceed LEV standards. I've not done any testing personally, but it seems pretty safe to assume that since the car has the same emissions control features as the new motor, there's no reason to expect significantly higher emissions figures with the motor installed in a TL than there would be if the motor were installed in an Odyssey.

EricL

Here is the exact reply (that's not what's he said). In CA, they are real jerks when it comes to emission testing. They don't care if the car meets emissions; they want it done "by the book." (You could drive in with zero emissions output and have some pinhead say, "I can't find the smog pump..." (or something similar related to the “original” equipment without “waiver” (CARB # or CARB sanction) and I'm talking from past experience).

Expert from me:

"1. Can Acura dealers tell, from the outside, the [3.5L] block is not the stock 3.2L."

The exact cut-'n-past reply from Doug:

"becuase you can simply change the j32 internals, it [the 3.5L short block] is physically identical and even an acura tech would be unknowing of a conversion if using the j32 block as a starting point. the j32 blew a similar reading at idle (Floridas test) for HC/CO/CO2/NOX as the 3.5L mill, statistically speaking, I remember the numbers varying by 3% or so.

Physically identical means identical (no differences). I'm sorry, I know this must sound like nit picking, but I had a tech look at a modified BMW head with a slightly different designation and he "blew me off"...

Welcome to the "Let us tell you how to do it" state...

EricL

I’m not questioning the motivation. I mention in the previous posting how “critical” CA operations are. I just sent an fresh e-mail to someone who just changed their mind about dealing with the smog nazis.

Don’t care about that. You could have everything in the engine bay replaced and have no problems. However, there are things that are now being looked at and engine designations are one of those things that do get looked at here. There are guided procedures and anything on the outside (subject to view) can provoke a more detailed check. I’ll spare you the silliness.

The CL/TL are ULEV, the CLS/TLS are LEV. I would presume that the unit would pass the LEV test. However, look at the Comptech S/C and it is not working with the CL/TL due to the ULEV standards (or so Comptech claims).

I personally think it is irrational to put a car on a dyno and have it meet standards (or better them) and then flunk the car or have it turn into a “marginal” polluter by putting back “flaky” stock parts. (And, that’s the problem with CA and not just setting tailpipe standards. It’s a punitive system that punishes small budget innovators that want to work in certain engine technology areas.)