Ok, for those of you who haven't seen my NOS thread, I blew one of my pistons and most likely damaged my block. Since I'm probably going to have to buy a new block, I was wondering which route I should take.

TypeR probably has the best posted numbers from his 3.5L conversion. He has the 02-04 oddyssey block, crankshaft, and unknown rods/pistons. What combination of rods and pistons should I be looking at to get the best compression/HP? Maybe even the MDX block instead like the rest of you are trying? From what I gathered in the various threads it seems like the RL should give me the best compression/HP at 11.0:1 and also is not domed like the CLs slugs so I won't have to machine them down to fit the valves on our cls'.

Since I am sort of forced to do virtually an entire engine swap, I just wanted the best setup possibe.

 

acctually the RL pistons like the CLS pistons should be domed ...these two pistons should work w/o any machining ...someone has suggested that the flat top pistons found in the mdx/oddessey would need some modifcation for the valves to fit...which i dont think is the case but thats another issue...use the type S block and RL/or mdx/pilot/oddessey rods RL being the best choice and use the type S or RL pistons

 

I thought I read the RL crankshaft was slightly shorter and caused pulley alignment issues.

 

here you go. This is a link that has some misc information regarding the j30, j32 and j35. Good luck with the swap



http://www.v6performance.net/forums/...ad.php?t=54261

 

I'd have to get the oddyssey crankshaft too right? This being said, these are my options.

Option 1
Oddyssey block $1200
RL pistons $300
Total parts $1500

Option 2
CL-S block $1200
??oddyssey or MDX crankshaft $466??
RL pistons ~6x$50 or $300
RL Rods ~$100x6 or $600
Total parts $2100 or $2566 w/crankshaft if needed

This look right? Know of anywhere I can try finding cheaper parts?

 

What compression ratio are you shooting to acheive? It would be helpful to identify what you want to do with the motor. FI or N/A? Nitrous?

If you can tolerate 10.8:1 you can probably just run an 01/02 MDX shortblock with Type S heads with no additional machining. You'll need good gas to run that compression.

 

Good gas meaning mixture of premium 92 with 100 racing fuel or something? So I'm guessing the posted 11.0:1 with the RL pistons on premium pump gas would be way way out of the question? I want to stick with pump gas definitely.

As far as FI or nitrous goes, if I can go into the 13s NA, I'd be happy and leave it alone.

Thanks Allout

 

Good luck man! Check that link out I posted.

 

Check out the following links also for parts if you dont have them

http://acuraautomotiveparts.org/
http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com/

 

i thought that was with the newer MDX?

 

Acccording to the post that Serge made in the v6performance forums you can't use the RL's rods and/or crank, only the pistons/rings.



http://www.v6performance.net/forums/...1&page=2&pp=30

 

well i dont see how you couldnt use the RL rods and...i have a nice picture of my engine with what looks like to me oddessey pistons with no modifactions just before install

 

Just going by what I was reading.

 

The MDX pistons will hit the Type-S valves.

 

The K20A runs 11:1 compression at over 8,000 rpm on 91 octane. No need to mix.

 

11:1 compression safe with pump fuel, SWEET! RL pistons it is. Just gotta find out if my block is salvagable or not and let the modding begin, well that and the hole in my pocket.

Thanks guys.

 

The new TL also runs 11:1

 

Nice, much more comforting to know than the 11:1 on the K20A engine which probably has much different dynamics and physical properties than the TL engine.

 

I think Dean Baty and his group built one up like this with no machining.

 

It's not that simple of a comparison. Cam design, overlap, etc. all play a part. You will be hard pressed to run 11.0:1 on 92 octane with Type S cams.

Drop ThinJim a PM. He'll point you toward his guy who may be able to help you build up a block and answer your questions with real life builds.

 

Alright, will do. Thanks for your , may save me tons of time and $$$. I hope he gets back to me quick, my cars going into the shop tomorrow.

 

Nope, you can't use '05 RL rods since you have to use the same crank which is too short to fit CL-S crank pulley. And you don't have Odyssey pistons or they would bent all your J32A2 valves . I posted pics to show the difference between RL, Odyssey and MDX.

 

why would you have to use the RL crank to use RL rods and here's a pic of my esembled short block...you tell me what pistons those are and ill be gald to explain to you why i think your wrong about the valve clearance issue...

http://public.fotki.com/typeR/typer/mvc-001f.html

http://public.fotki.com/typeR/typer/mvc-002f.html


anyone that wants to save either if these pics and host them is welcome to

 

And why open up a new thread on this J35 - here is one LINK you need

Anyway, two options:

Complete NEW '02 MDX short block and '05 RL pistons/rings

or

existing CL-S block with the following:

-= hondaautomotiveparts.com =-
'02-'04 Odyssey (crankshaft)
Product No. 368270 or
Honda part #13310-PGK-A00

'02-'04 Odyssey (connecting rod)
Product No. 368269 or
Honda part #13210-PGK-A00

Main bearings + rod bearings

-= acuraautomotiveparts.org =-
'03 CL-S (pistons/rings) - 10.5:1 CR or
'05 RL (pistons/rings) - 11.0:1 CR

 

Ah, for starters because I checked before. RL rods won't fit '02-04 Odyssey crank or 01-02 MDX one. You will fit '03-04 MDX crank which is the same as '05 RL, however it's too short than AV6/TL/CL/TL-S/CL-S to fit your existing crank pulley.

As far as pistons you showed they look like CL-S, RL or custom made but completely different from Odyssey or MDX. Had you have Odyssey or MDX pistons you would have bent your Cl-S valves. Do you even know why?

 

im not trying to start an argument with but i want you to know ,yes i think i know why you think you'd get bent valves from the oddessey/ormdx pistons,and i think your wrong...

 

There can't be any argument because I tried pretty much every combination, so I know what I'm talking about and if you believe you know something I don't that would be even more beneficial to others. Care to explain about why you think I'm wrong?

 

Serge, I beleive your incorrect on the rod issue. the rods diminsions are the same on all the 3.5 blocks from 01 and up. the 05 RL rod is different, but only in material. they are powder metal rods as to forged for the earlier years and some cast ones in there as well. honda does this to save money on machining. Rather than machineing the caps, they just break them apart and go. IMO powder medal sucks.

yes, the crank is shorter, but ... it will work by changing out the pullies and the whole front pulley structure of the motor. I'm not going into much detail on that. Rather than use the 05 crank, just use the 01-03 3.5 crank. Although there is reports of it being a cast crank, the ones i've seen in person are forged.

As for what to use in this guys setup... I'd just order a complete 3.5 shortblock from the 01-03 mdx, remove the pistons and replace them with the RL or TL ones. Do not use the 04 and up block, it won't fit our transmission. The 01-03 3.5 block is the exact identical block as the 3.2. If you compare part numbers for the basic block on the 3.5 and 3.2 for the years 01-03, it's the same.

As for the higher compression in the RL, we've all seen the reason it works. The RL block has oil squirters that spray oil onto the bottom of the piston to cool it. This eleminates detonation. The 3.2/3.5 01-03 block does not have this oiling system. YOur better off maybe at the very most trying the TL pistons if they are 11 ta 1.

Your heads will bolt right up to the 01-03 mdx block with no issues,

good luk

 

http://public.fotki.com/typeR/typer/...729894_pv.html
http://public.fotki.com/typeR/typer/...a2_valves.html
what ive tried to illustrate with the red and yellow lines on the larger valve picture is that the vlave itself seats deeper into the domed RL/CLS piston then the mdx/oddessey but the arc of the cutout in the piston will fit the larger valve

 

Tom, my shop along with Acura dealer mentioned different rod size on '05 RL vs 01-02 MDX and 02-04 Odyssey . As far as material, that's why went with '04 Odyssey.

IMO 01-02 MDX or 02-04 Odyssey are the best 3.5 to go with which are nothing but complete success along with RL or CL-S pistons. If someone wants to try to experiment with other years, go ahead.

That's pretty much what I specified here and on V6P. I chose RL pistons specifically for cooling design and compression to utilize blower efficiency with lower boost.

 

Our buddy TAG, originally has tried to run stock Odyssey pistons with bolt up J32A2 heads and bent all CL-S intake (large) valves. Then machine shop carved the larger pockets to avoid it again and new CL-S intake valves were ordered. Problem solved. However, had he used stock CL-S or RL valves he would have no issues, but I guess he wanted lower CR and chose machining process.

Again, here is the piston difference:
Left to right - RL (similar to CL-S), Odyssey, MDX.


And valves pic is actually mine

 

BTW one thing i know forsure is the J35A4 block itself is NOT identical to the J32A2 there was a braket needed for the AC compressor ...i dont remember the exact details but i was shown the physical difference in my block and the oddessey as it caused a 3 day delay in its completion you could see where a triangular shaped bolt patern would have gone in the oddessey like the CLs but it just wasnt there...we ordered this bracket and everything was fine from there

 

[QUOTE=02AV6]And why open up a new thread on this J35 - here is one LINK you need

I did read all of your previous threads and much thanks for those . But the reason I started this thread was b/c you did already give us our hardware options but did not go into details about which Performancewise was theoretically best. I.E. compression ratio, what kinds of gas would need to be ran etc...

Since this is a fairly big project, and similarly uncharted one I wanted to get more detailed info for my application in specific. Which I think thinjim answered me below which I will go and read now.

At any rate, it seems like there are still a bunch of unanswered questions regarding compatability, "theoretic" best performance and reliability, but they are slowly being ironed out which is a great thing!

 

Good to know, will let the garage know.

 

Definitely using the 02 odyssey short block.

I'm guessing you're talking about the 05 TL with 11.0:1 compression? If so, assuming they are not oil squirted like the RL, I guess they would be the best bet at the highest compression? If you think this too would be kind of risky, maybe I should just stick with the CL-S pistons and play it safe? Know of anyone who tried those pistons on the odyssey block? I definitely would not want to be the 1st and take a chance like that and end up with early combustion problems and having to pay for higher octane gas.

Thanks!

 

Ok, just came back from the garage and they said most likely my block is not damaged since I was able to drive my car around. They also said that swapping my block with an odyssey block would be $2400 for labor b/c they would have to strip the old engine, and rebuild the new. Guess my best bet now would be the 02 odyssey crankshaft and rods, 01 CL-s or 05 TL pistons, or 05 RL pistons (02AV6, you have 05RL right?), and old CL-S block. He said it would be almost half the labor for just rebuilding my old block. So that being said. I guess I'll have almost the same setup as you 02AV6?

 

Yep, here is my setup:

'03 CL-S block
'02-04 Odyssey crank/rods/bearings
'05 RL pistons/rings

But be careful with nitrous in the future

Good luck!

 

Ha... Ha... funny... If I go with the nos in the future I will definitely look at a new fuel pump, regulator and higher octane for juice time!

Now I just hope he's correct on his assumption that my block is going to be good.

Thanks for all your help. Will definitely post about how everything goes after all is done.