civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

I dont necessarily like the J&R ecu, but its the only option you have due to your transmission.

The EMS2 won't control the auto tranny.

yungone501

iTrader: (4)

Ok, so if my transmission wasnt a hindering factor in deciding on an EMS, what would be the better choice here?

I've looked at my options on this build and I've considered making the transmission a totally separate entity from the engine already. I mean in regards to having its own controller, wiring harness, everything. And if the AEM already does this, it would actually help that option. Never thought I'd say this about Acura's sport shift option on their automatics but it looks like it might actually come in use. In addition to that, there are many other people that have made their own shift control modules that essentially split signals from the engine and use them to coordinate proper shift patterns.

So, like I was saying, who makes the better EMS? ;-)

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

Aem.

yungone501

iTrader: (4)

AEM it is.

It's been some days now on any progress for the build. Last I visited, the builder and his assistant were pretty busy as the entire shop was saturated with both motor blocks and various engine parts. He was suppose to start assembly last week but I seen my freshly honed block and all of its components still sitting there. Then, to top it off, a buddy of mine threw a fit over a small imperfection at the base of one of the cylinder walls (a no piston contact zone) and the builder agreed to redo everything to keep him happy. There goes another obstacle...if you're reading....THANKS SEAN! Bro's my a$$. ;-)

In the mean time, the same guy (Sean) and I have been preparing the entire car for the transplant and have gutted the entire trunk to make room for a dual bottle setup that will be Y'd in together for a more consistent pressure upon activation. If one bottle drops 10% pressure after a given hit, in theory, two bottles should drop a static pressure of 5% each. Because this will not be a track car, quick bottle warmups will not be necessary. So far, we have all the lines ran beneath the car from the trunk area and are routed along with the factory fuel lines. Right beneath the drivers seat, we installed a manual valve to allow me to "open" up the bottles at any given moment. This was enabled by drilling a 5/16" hole through the floorboard and then we removed the the valves handle. We made a threaded shaft (male to female) and then threaded the shaft through the floor back onto the valve thus allowing us to install the handle back on the top of the shaft. Creative huh? We thought so!

Before the valve, we also installed a coupler to be able to run a 1/4 NPT threaded gauge in before the valve so that bottle pressure could still be momitored even with the valve closed.

I'll try and get some pictures by Tuesday.

rush

iTrader: (1)

hows yours working so far?

WBA-01

iTrader: (2)

I would be interested in a standalone transmission controller. I have been contemplating doing this same thing. I would like to run the AEM EMS but don't want to swap to a 6 speed. Currently i'm running the AEM FIC6 but due to the Honda Cam & Crank sensors i can't get it to control timing. I'm running a Supercharger so i'm more looking for timing retard functions, right now i'm relying on the stock ecu to do so. But even without the timing part, i'm able to skew O2 sensors enough to get my fuel dialed in. Also able to setup custom vtec profiles. It's also setup with 2 different fuel maps and set to switch profiles when the meth sensor is empty.

agreed, the J&R ecu is just a custom Megasquirt system. It works for most the setups Rodney does, but good luck finding a tuner who likes it or even wiling to work with it. And the base maps i have seen are in need of some help.

yungone501

iTrader: (4)

Just did a quick search on aftermarket transmission controllers and a place called IPT (importperformancetrans.com) came up. Although not very detailed in its function/control capabilities, it sounds as though it could be what some of us need to look into. I also took a brief look at the wiring diagrams for the J32A2 auto transmission and not very complicated. From my understanding, the easiest way to allow any sort of "homemade" controller to work would be by manually engaging the gears for both up and down shifting. It would be very difficult to allow any controller to be compatible with the factory ECM in determining shift points, converter lockup function, fluid pressure control, etc... That is unless the controller was designed to do so and this would probably be possible ONLY if a company with the means and funding allowed them to design and build such a thing. And judging by how many parts are available to us (or lack there of), I'd say this isn't very likely to be in existence. Come to think of it, j-series builds/swaps have increasingly become more mainstream and common here recently...so I could be wrong but I doubt it.

I like the challenge of building a car with limited availability on performance parts and knowledge about the engine in general. To me, this makes the build more appealing. It's not like the B or H series blocks that EVERYONE and their dog are building or have already built. Poor market mixed with high ambition makes for some bada$$ rides!

yungone501

iTrader: (4)

Got my head ARP head studs in yesterday and immediately took them straight to my guy. Not sure how many of you guys know that some places actually do sell stud kits for our J32/35 motors and you're looking to spend around $320! But if you buy two stud kits for the H23 at $115 each, you spend $230 and save nearly $100.

I'm going to try and get some new pictures posted up today of the new nitrous setup I had mentioned last post. There's a place a few blocks down from my shop that makes custom length AN line and I'm going to have them make -6 line so there will be no limits on how high I decide to go in the future with my nitrous level. That and I'm sure I'm already pushing this -4 to its current limits.

yungone501

iTrader: (4)

I've gathered a few other pictures since my last update and thought I'd put them up. Also, as for the motor itself, since it'll be another week before any work begins, I decided on running a KMS blockguard because of the immense cylinder pressures that will be caused by the big shots of nitrous. My builder seems to be concerned about cooling issues after any lengthy runs in the summer due to the substantially reduced amount of coolant flow that they will cause. Has anyone here ever used a blockguard in a J-series motor and if so, any feedback? Regardless, it's been ordered and should be here within a day or two. I may do some modification to the coolant passages and slightly enlarge them...but enough that will compromise its purpose.

Here's some pictures of the J32A2 heads that were sent to my phone by the guy who's doing the port work. He said this is still in the "shaping" stage of the process but I was amazed at the ports size! He said he's putting some extra time and focus into this build because he knows how fervent I am about my car and this build. Plus, a little extra cash and verbal appreciation goes a long way. ;-)

This photo is before port work. You can see the casting flaws and the extremely rough/porous surfaces.



And here's the same ports that have been shaped and reworked. All casting flaws have been removed, valve pockets have been smoothed down without affecting the guide, you can see the exhaust port is a little larger in the picture. He says the comparison in person is much more noticeable in person...



And some backlit shots of the beautiful exhaust ports...



Now, Ive been trying to gather the other essential engine parts and one thing I came across that I've never seen or heard about here are the Gates "RB" blue timing belts. At first, I thought these were just belts that were only more expensive because of their pretty blue color. I kept reading in my research about how the belts were for high performance, racing engines and were much more "heavy duty" to withstand all the wear and tear from the abuse. So I ordered one and when it arrived I was very impressed with the quality of this thing. It was much stiffer and had a "carbon" like feel (I know, doesn't sound right but that's all I can say). Even though it was stiffer you could tell it was much stronger and was built for what it was advertised as: performance. It cost me $130 I believe.





Hope you guys enjoyed the update. Until next time everyone!

yungone501

iTrader: (4)

Ok, so another update on the build...

A few things have changed in my plans here and wanted to highlight them. After pulling the engine/trans out of the TL, I decided now's a good time to really clean up that UGLY engine bay. I've had somewhat of a slow front main leak since I've owned the car so the cradle was heavily saturated with both oil sludge and grime. After removing everything (literally) in the engine compartment, I soaked the cradle with Simple Green and power washed it twice. Dissatisfied with the now clean but unsightful dry painted surfaces exposed...I got DOWN TO BUSINESS! Like I said, everything was removed including the following:

1. All hoses and lines
2. Brake system from master cylinder to ABS module/pump assy.
3. All harnesses and fuse blocks
4. Hood, fenders, bumper
5. Radiator and condenser
6. Lighting components
7. EVERYTHING!!!

After thoroughly prepping the surfaces for paint and masking everything off, went out and bought about 8 cans of truck bed coating and went to work. Applied several coats allowing each coat to dry in between...I'd say maybe 6 coats total.

After painting, I decided it would be a good time to spice things up a bit and do the following tasks:

1. Full on wire tuck
2. Permanently remove and disable ABS/traction control the PROPER way...no ABS/traction lights and using steel brake lines from master cylinder directly to caliper brake hose lines.
3. Replace all rubber hoses with blue (my accent color) heavy duty hoses.
4. Bead blast and wrap headers followed by a high heat sealant to permanently keep wrap on the headers.
5. Relocating battery to the rear using 2 (positive and negative) single 0 gauge cables from battery to engine and also installing an aluminum battery tray. All terminals/connections crimped, heat shrinked and soldered.
6. Installing aluminum KGS radiator and B&M transmission cooler with thermostatically controlled cooling fan.
7. Integrating all aftermarket wiring into factory harnesses and installing continuous duty relay to remove power fom all added electrical components to isolate them away from the factory wiring to reduce the added chance of shorts.

As for the motor, major change in plans. Ended up halting the machine shop that was going to build the motor and decided to have the motor built by someone that has the knowledge, experience and confidence to do the job right the first time. So, went and picked everything up and sent it to Paul in Virginia...you know: NVA-AV6. I'd rather pay alot more money in shipping costs then be worried about the builds quality with every hit of the nitrous button. Very happy with my decision on doing this and will appreciate the added assurance.

Here's a couple of photos that were taken here and there and in no specific order. I was just trying to remember the pictures and luckily got these, lol...

Although I'm glad to its out, it will be missed. The motor that took 54 bottles...R.I.P.



And another...



Here's a few I snapped after having done the truck bed coating and making some good progress on the wire tuck. First wire tuck BTW!







If anybody wants to know why truck bed coating was used, I did the trunk with the same coating and loved the rugged look it gave. It's also makes for an excellent protector against bumps, hits and scrapes (obviously). A simple power wash and comes clean very easily. That's all I need...

yungone501

iTrader: (4)

Oh yeah, I almost forgot





These babies combined with 12.7" DBA slotted and drilled rotors, EBC red stuff pads, Russell stainless steel brake hoses and shortened steel lines from master cylinder directly to stainless hoses should rip people's faces off!

These things dwarf the factory TL calipers and don't realize how big they really are until you see them in person. First time I opened the box I thought about how they would fit behind my front wheels...seriously, they are HUGE. If you notice, the front half of each caliper are sanded and nearing the polishing process. I believe they might be the first pair of polished RL calipers. Atleast that I've seen.

This car will feel entirely different considering that I've drastically improved the braking system, the engine, the suspension (sway bars/coilovers). It won't even be the same car here after...

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

Nice progress. Why did you choose wrapping header over coating? I want to wrap mine just worried about moisture/corrosion.

Interested to see how you go about wire tuck.

I wish I could start with just a shell and build up from there instead of building down like I am.

Stephen00TL

Not sure how long your had the dc sport header but if you wrap them you void the warranty... If that matters

yungone501

iTrader: (4)

I suppose I'm wrapping instead of coating due to being able to do it myself. Plus I already have the necessary materials and supplies on hand to perform the work. Is there that big of a difference between the two?

As for the wire tuck, even though I've been doing electrical work with cars for many years now, I've never done one of these but always liked the idea. I think I'll impress myself on this one cause I'm exploding with so many cool, little ideas on things. I'll try and get some more progress here in a bit of what else has been done.

OperationDarkie

iTrader: (1)

Just out of curiousity, why build up the TL instead getting like an NSX or something, not trying to bash, just my line of thinking is with no expense spared why not get a NSX...heh

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

Everything for the nsx mod/maintenance wise is so much more expensive. That is in a different league. I don't think he meant he has unlimited money or he would be driving supercars.

The best reason is that noone expects a tl too be fast. If you had an evo everyone would expect it to be modded and fast. Driving a sleeper is fun and more unique. The looks on people's faces as you blow by them when they think your crappy Acura had no chance at all is priceless.

yungone501

iTrader: (4)

Thank you. Could've have said it better!

yungone501

iTrader: (4)

Some more fairly recent pics of the engine bay...more to come soon!













Here's the rest of my car piled against the wall waiting for the engine compartment to be finished...

kidduce

iTrader: (1)

Looking clean. Love tucked engine bays.

yungone501

iTrader: (4)

Just got my heads back lastnight from getting a FULL port&polish and I was amazed at their outcome. The guy who did the work was one who was notorious in my area for doing head work for most of the guys who run high boost Supra's. I met him through the machine shop where I have always had my motors built (except this one) and he talked a pretty good game so I decided to let him take the job...and my machinist backed him up. I have to say this is one of the better jobs I've ever seen done and didn't try and impress me with a bunch of jibber jabber either. I can tell by how he did NOT 'shine' the intake ports to a mirror like finish he knew what he was doing. Most P&P's do this as they want you to believe that it actually helps the airflow but instead it diminishes gains and is counterproductive. He stopped at just the right finish. But most favorite feature of his work was the port shaping and redesign. You can see in one picture in particular the extremity he went in making it as 'straight through' as possible. In other words, the incoming air has a linear path right over to the valve with NO turns at all. That's the ideal cylinder head! Here's some pictures of his work.

AnthraciteTypeS

Looks good, how much did that cost you?

Insedanity

Very nice!

yungone501

iTrader: (4)

The guy charged $700 to do the port/polish as well as match them to gaskets. I seen them in person (pics above are ones he sent me over cell) today and these pics do no justice on his quality of work. His contact info is:

EDS Performance Head Porting
218-760-9309

Eddie is the guys name and he will respond to text. Let him know Robert from Auto Electric Sytems sent you his way.

richardparker

iTrader: (7)

heads are looking good.
Are you going to have them resurfaced,they look like have some scratches comming from combustion chambers from the port work?

yungone501

iTrader: (4)

Most definitely. I plan on having them reworked some more in a few other aspects. I would like to have all stainless steel valves installed. Surface for them for a CR of around 11.8-12.2:1 to squeeze a little more power out. Because I've decided to do stock cams instead of Bisi II, I'm still contemplating upgrading the springs and retainers...especially since I'm not raising fuel cutoff limit.

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

^^^ with a higher CR you will see more power and more gas mileage....

do the Type S cams as they are hollow (not sure about your generation models but look into it)....for the 3G the Type S cams are hollow for weight savings and more aggressive....

i would replace the springs and retainers to titanium ones mostly for weight savings and if later down the line, you want to increase the redline, you wont have to tear open the heads again

yungone501

iTrader: (4)

I don't want to go too high in CR. I've heard these motors generally require a higher octane fuel around 12.5:1 or higher but I'm not sure on the accuracy of that.

As for the 3g type s cams, that's actually an idea to entertain. Where do I find the specs on the required machined spacer? Also, anyone know the gains between the 2g and 3g type s cams...if not, is it worth the hassle of making the spacer?

I suppose if I go with the 3g cams it would be worth getting the springs/retainers.

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

the higher CR you will either need higher octane or Water Meth Injection or further higher CR and you will end up with needing to run E85.....your CR raise from 11:1 to 11.8:1-12.2:1 seems just right for running 91/93 octane and gains in HP/TQ and Gas mileage....

well the gains from 3G Cams to 3G Type S cams are roughly around 5-7% from what i hear but then again I havent used me so dont quote me on it LOL....

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

I think someone with a built 3.7l made ~7whp over stock with the 3G TL-S cams.

p.diddy

iTrader: (3)

+1

yungone501

iTrader: (4)

Well, I'm actually not suprised because the 3g TL-s cams are designed for torque from what I read...not high rev HP. This of course compliments the larger displacement 3.5 it debuted in on the 07 TL-s. I've read alot here lately on the RL cams and how they will actually produce more torque than the 3g TL-s cams which comes from needing to move that big bulk of a car (RL) and make the 300hp mark of which it brags about.

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

Yea, but I believe the lobes on the RL cams had clearance issues in our motors.

Stephen00TL

I believe he is using an rl block not a tl type s block(j32a2)

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

The interference wouldnt be from the black. Its either the valve covers or the heads themselves that would come in contact with the lobes.

yungone501

iTrader: (4)

I'm using J32A2 heads and block. Internally I have an 05 RL crank (oem part) and 'J35' rods/pistons (aftermarket forged).

As for the RL cams, they are the EXACT same lift as the 3g TL-s cams except a longer duration. They will fit in the heads along with perfect bearing/lobe to rocker alignment but because they too are shorter like the TL-s cams, they require the use of a spacer. From what I see in an electro-mechanical perspective, the RL cams would require the spacers to extend the cam gear out further and would have to use the original cam gears from the J32A2 because the RL has different reluctor positioning for signals. Can somebody confirm this as correct?

yungone501

iTrader: (4)

I was, btw, referring to the 2005 RL 3.5 cams above.

And the duration of both cams is the same are the same. It's the lift of VTEC lobe that was slightly higher. My apologies for inaccurate information.

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

for a 3.7L build i would def go with Bisi stage 1 or Stage 2 (if am going aggressive)....

i still feel the Type S cams will gain quite a bit on a 3.2L but not on anything more than 3.5L as they are just not aggressive enough...still a 7whp is decent on a bigger engine....

am planning on putting the type S cams on my 3.2 and will let you know how it goes....

yungone501

iTrader: (4)

I'm assuming you're referring to the J32A3, correct? Is the 07 TL-S cam a direct fit or do they require a spacer as well?

CAN SOMEBODY PLEASE GIVE INFO ON THE CAM SPACER? I swear, finding any specs on the spacer is becoming as hard as spotting a unicorn. Is the spacers soul purpose extending the cam gear far enough out to allow the cam sensor to be triggered?

Oh and btw, I've been researching the RL cam some more. Civic, I believe you're right on the whole mechanical interference thing on these cams. Nobody ever directly specifies what the issue is BUT it is discussed quite frequently. I'm assuming this is why the TL-S cams are being used instead for the swap...

The 07 TL-S (both auto/man. trans) and the 05+ RL have different part numbers for sure. The 07-08 TL-S have the same cam part numbers in year range and the 05+ RL has the same part number up to 09. The primary difference in both cams is of course the TL-S is hollow and much lighter. And the RL, although it has the same intake/exhaust lifts and duration, the VTEC profile is a little more aggressive than the 3g TL-S which is what helps the 300hp mark. The difference between the RL cams and the 2g TL/CL-S cams are over .5mm on both intake and exhaust but has the same lift in regards to VTEC. So, as mentioned above, J32 motors would/should greatly benefit from the 3g TL-S cams as opposed to any J35 motor.

I have a J35A6 motor at my shop and would like to know if there are ANY beneficial parts on this motor that could be used on this 3.5 conversion. Especially if in regards to any internal components that relate to producing power such as cams, rockers, valves, etc...

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

Have you contacted or spoken with nva-av6(Paul)? I would think he might be able to answer your questions.

yungone501

iTrader: (4)

He's the one building my motor. I was contemplating asking him about the spacer for the cams but he's a very busy man and figured with you guys as my resource, I'd be okay. Guy know everything about a J motor right off the top of his head. Best of all, he gained his knowledge by just getting out there and trying it. He's what I refer to as a "solutionist". Good guy indeed.

But the question remains, how is it that two people that's responded on this thread have the cam spacers but can't (or haven't) responded with a useful answer? This weekend, if I haven't any answers from you all, I plan on breaking this J35A6 down to remove the cams and find out exactly what it's going to take. Having a CNC machinist as a friend sure does come in handy at times.