rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

LOL...should have known. Not a young one at all. I could tell by your last response!

PS...I know that when giving the motor prolonged extra power you have to beef up other stuff. Is that also an issue with a short burst that nitrous will give you? Meaning, will the drivetrain (axles bearings etc) need to be beefed up to handle double the engine output?

yungone501

iTrader: (4)

Yeah, well...putting these wheels on wasn't exactly planned so to speak. I had a custom polished/painted set of the five spoke 04+ TL wheels and ran one of the wheels on a low tire (unknowingly) on the highway and put multiple cracks alongside the edge of the rim. Needless to say I was PISSED cause I really loved those wheels cause they matched the factory black/chrome scheme of my car. Fast forward, in order to make these RDX wheels work I had to purchase an entire set of low-pro tires (245-40-19) tires and crossed my fingers only to find out that my fenders literally rested on top of my tires! I then had a friend call out a guy to my shop and arrived at 5:30pm to roll all four fenders. This went on until 10:30 at night. All this in one, yes ONE, day!

Aside from all that (and now that I was forced to finally roll my fenders just to make it home), I would like to soon purchase the XXR 527's...in gold of course!

To be completely honest, I'm currently going against what I've always practiced and preached on this car. Ideally, in terms of building performance oriented vehicle, you start at the tires and work your way back to the motor. But because of the lack of performance parts on these cars, that's kind of hard to do. There's 3 things I consistently abide by with this car regarding the transmission. Especially for those under heavy nitrous use:

1- Use a high quality transmission fluid, preferably synthetic. I myself use Amsoil and LOVE the stuff. Some others on here run Redline and seem to be just as happy.

2- Drain/flush the fluid frequently. I myself flush way before the recommended mileage/time interval. This ensures that the fluid remains protective against heat...thermal breakdown is the MOST detrimental thing to your transmission.

3- The last one is NEVER spray during a shift point. That's because while the transmission is mechanically shifting, there's a "gap" from one gear to the next and during that gap the nitrous will cause the torque to both cause slippage during clutch engagement as well as allow the momentum of the torque that was being built to slam into the next gear. This will drastically decrease the life expectancy of any transmission. I generally use (and will be using on the new build) a RPM switch to deactivate the solenoids right before the shift point to protect the tranny. The switches window can be used to both activate above and deactivate below any programmed RPM. VERY beneficial. Be aware that after deactivating for a shift point the switch can sometimes deactivate before the shift completes due to going below the predetermined RPM again. There are some switches that allow for delay adjustments to ensure this will not happen.

Other than this, my only other concern on these cars would be the axles but can easily be custom made by any experienced machinist with the proper equipment.

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

Wow...talk about knowing your stuff. Thanks for that post...that's probably the single most useful post I've read in a few months.

Good luck and keep us posted!

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

^^^ and some super sticky tires....

EDIT: was adding to gnuts response....

yungone501

iTrader: (4)

I'm previlaged to be here on the forum with you guys. That's why we're here: to share knowledge and help construct ideas and solutions. Thanks be to you guys for all the effort most of you put into helping others. I find it interesting how long term and/or knowledgable members here dedicate their time and energy into constructing a "support system" for those with a passion for Acura's...or just cars in general like myself. :-)

Now then, I have some updates on the build. I received the final pieces in the mail that has been clogging up the drain on my build: crank and cam bearings. Toga Bearings makes some of the best performance bearings for import vehicles and luckily for the J35! The have grooves down the center which does 2 significant things: allows for more oil to be supplied in critical areas and more over reduces friction by taking away a small portion of bearing to journal contact area. Of course less friction equals more power. And to compensate for the lost material, the bearings are hardened to increase service life. Paid $140 (I believe) for both sets as opposed to Acura's sets at $160 for each set. Toga Bearings have a very reputable quality and have many great reviews behind them.

The guy porting my heads and the other guy machining my lower intake manifolds are both requiring the presence of the manifolds to their work so I've had to leave work 4 times in the past 2 days to accommodate them and their needs. :-) I keep telling myself it will all be worth the hassle.

Does anyone have any feedback/reviews/threads on Bisimoto cams for the J series other than the "Gerzand" guy that only ran them for 5000 miles? I'm really desperate for solid material in these things!

yungone501

iTrader: (4)

So I FINALLY got to see the end result of my drilled and tapped lower intake manifolds assembled with nozzles in place. It adds a nice evil appearance to them and makes me think bad thoughts about my car. I realized, however, that due to the nozzle line connection points and the angle at which the mixture exits the nozzle they must be turned horizontally to accomadate the fuel rails and injectors. In other words, I have to buy side exiting direct port nozzles because these nozzles will not work. They would just spray on the runner wall rather than into the flow of the runner itself, lol... Its all good though I guess, I found a direct port plumbing kit that NOS makes which includes all 6 nozzles (side exiting!), all necessary steel lines for both fuel and nitrous, fittings and distribution blocks all for $300. Thats a deal considering the nozzles alone cost me $200 last time.

Here's a few pictures of the manifold with nozzles. And btw, if anybody is interested, ill have these nozzles that are in the pictures posted in the black market for sale.

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

Nice build. I bet the motor build alone will cost more than the tl is worth.

What about using cams from 07-08 tl-s? I thought some people were using them.

yungone501

iTrader: (4)

In order to maintain my sanity, I decided I wouldn't pay any mind to the amount of money I put into this build. But for the record, I wouldn't think it surpassed the value of the car itself. Atleast it's value to me.

As for the TL-S cams from 07-08, I've heard they werent interchangeable with 05+ RL cams. And RL cams were my initially intended choice. I've done research and have decided to either use new factory 2G cams or the Bisimotos. I've also considered to see if my machinist could construct a blank core and "trace" the RL's lobe profile such as lift and duration. This, of course, would still present any issues of proper hardening of the lobes contact surfaces as well as proper micro polishing.

Does anyone have any information to specific J-series generation camshaft interchangeability? Or even cylinder head interchangeability? I have a J35A4 and A6 that could be swapped around into my J32A2 but lack the necessary time to do so!

Stephen00TL

I would also like to know if there any other interchangeable cams from any other Acura/Honda cars that can be swapped in that will be better.

yungone501

iTrader: (4)

Are you currently building or just considering?

It is to my understanding that cams are noninterchangeable between the 2 generations of J-series. That I'm uncertain of though...

poisx7

iTrader: (1)

Nice build...
Cant wait to see Dyno Numbers

richardparker

iTrader: (7)

I've been running 08 tls cams for 2k miles so far in a 2nd gen engine.

yungone501

iTrader: (4)

I have J32A2 block and heads so I can't run 2nd gen cams. Those cams are designed and engineered to work with the cylinder heads that have the exhaust manifold actually cast in the head itself...I think they're longer than the 1st gens.

Looks like my only choice here would be what I've already mentioned throughout this thread: Bisi's or OEM 03 TL-S cams...

As for the motor build, I'm becoming quite certain after making a few runs last night after trying to tune my A/F ratio that more spark WILL be needed due to "blowout". I increased my HP up to a 350 shot and upon doing so, things started to change in terms of drivability and performance. As I was decreasing jet sizes to lean out the mixture, I kept noticing that under WOT on spray the engine kept bogging down after 1-2 seconds of activation and began flashing the MIL. Upon further review I found that I was pulling random/multiple misfire codes (P0300) and started watching data stream to pinpoint the issue. What I found was that during the initial 1-2 seconds of spraying, the power would begin to drastically increase as liquid N2O began entering the motor. When maximum power was hitting, the fuel trims began to go into negative (ECM's attempt at removing fuel by pulling injector pulse) and then immediately followed by a drastic fall in power and then negatively saturated trims. This is GENERALLY a sign of spark blowout but I must determine if it's due to low octane levels (might be where I have to introduce a meth-kit) or not a strong enough ignition system to ignite the tremendous amount of fuel brought in by the nitrous. I'm suspecting the latter because even after falling on its face, I didn't see a big enough pull from the ECM in timing to account for the risk of spark knock. I still have a few more things id like to do before purchasing the ignition components but like I said, I'm quite certain the strength of the ignition coils are at fault here.

I did go ahead and do the research on it and the J32A2 coils are higher impedance (most commonly due to a smaller transistor) than other Honda/Acuras newer J35/J37 coils. I currently have my interests on the 2006 Odysseys coils (same as the 07-08 TL-S coils) because of the data I've found on their coil circuitry within (thanks be to AllData) and I especially like the coils off the 05 NSX but they are about twice the cost of the Odysseys coil. I already have a full set of Odyssey coils up at the shop so Monday I'll install them and see if there's any improvement. I'll keep you guys posted on this matter...

I went ahead and purchased NOS' V6 direct port kit off EBay after finding it brand new for $300 with free shipping! This was over $100 cheaper than everyone else everywhere! Should have it by the end of the week and have installed on the runner for test fitment purposes by next weekend. I'll be sure and post the pictures up for you guys as well. You can view the kit here if anyone holds interest or for those possibly planning on going direct port:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/120672102338...9#ht_825wt_689

Stephen00TL

Right now I'm just trying to see how much power I can get out of a j32a1, I know I can swap motors I just want to see how much power I can get out of this one first since nobody Ive seen really has. That is why I was wondering if there are any other cams I can run. After i get my transmission replaced im putting on a 09 tl intake manifold, ported type s throttle body, ported intake runners, high flow cat, and comptech b pipe or custom one. After I run out of stuff to do to the engine I have now I will either build a new engine or buy a supercharger.

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

RP does have a J32A2. I think he typed 2nd Gen because the the 01-03 CL is the 2nd gen.

There are a few people running the 07-08 TL-S cams. It requires a little work, but they can be run in the A2 heads.

yungone501

iTrader: (4)

^^^
What type of work in specific do you know?

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

I know that spacers are required on the cam gear side, not sure if anything else is needed.

StreetKA

iTrader: (8)

i see that something is going on here finally i just hope it wont be one of those projects that guys post about his plans but then disapears and thats all... dont disapoint me(us) please

yungone501

iTrader: (4)

You've she'd some hope here Civic on being able to possibly use some more agressive OEM cams. So what you're saying is that they are actually shorter in length (due to having to add the spacer) than the J32A2 cams correct? Are the cams withing the J35A8 the same specs (aside from cam lobe profile) as say a J35A6 from an 06 Odyssey? I ask because I have an A6 that I could remove the cam to do some mock up research to determine exactly what be done and have the spacer machined.

yungone501

iTrader: (4)

Well, based off of the given history of most forums, you have a valid reason for concern. However, just in case you haven't noticed, this thread isn't about any "plans". This is about an actual build in progress. ;-)

Most of the largest steps in this process have already taken place except the fun part: the build and the install....and trust me, I definitely won't be cutting off there. I have a very bad habit (just ask my wife) of being consumed about doing whatever it is I have a passion/focus in doing. Especially anything that has to do with cars. I am known at my shop for being the guy who will find the problem with your car...regardless how long the diagnosis takes.

In other words, you guys will see the results of this all the way to the dyno sheets!!!

yungone501

iTrader: (4)

Where would buy ARP-like quality fasteners for our motors? Specifically the main cap bolts...

Got on ARP's website and it says that they can make custom bolts/fasteners. This is something I may have done. There are three different bolts that the caps use and all three use M11 thread style and trust me when I say these bolts are pretty much Honda/Acura specific. Custom bolts may be my only route...

kidduce

iTrader: (1)

Can't wait to see the build pics.. Sounds like you are one determined guy, do you have a time frame of when you would like to have this completed?

yungone501

iTrader: (4)

^^^
Engine builder told me this morning that he would begin the actual build Wednesday morning. I totally spaced and forgot I never ordered head studs so I literally just closed my other window on my computer after purchasing 2 sets of H23 head studs which should accommodate nicely. I will get some pictures when I have time as I frequent his shop every other day or so. Here lately...everyday. :-)

As soon as he completes the build, I have a friend of mine who is on stand by and anxiously awaiting the motor to do the install. It might take him 1-2 days and then I'll need another 1-2 days or so for looking everything over and ensuring everything is in place both mechanically and electrically. I extremely anal about how well I want this motor to run so I will be doing a lot of technical monitoring on datastream to see if there's and issues with powertrain management. If any are detected and unable to be rectified, I will switch to full stand alone unit. I'm trying to run this on factory electronics with tweaks and manipulations here and there. I do this for a living and have been for over 10 years so I have confidence I can use factory PCM! (fingers crossed)

SEANcanBEAT

iTrader: (1)

there's no way i can pass up subscribing to this thread, I've never been so interested in a 2g motor build threat. cant wait to see more pics of the build.

yungone501

iTrader: (4)

Ok guys, mind was made today on my choice for cams. The result? Bisimoto Stage II.

Talked to Julio on the phone today and talked for roughly 20 minutes or so on the performance, warranty, manufacturing process, and he answered all my questions with detailed knowledge and professionalism. I'm not talking about sales pitching either but raw, vital information that I needed to choose my cams.

So basically I'll be ordering the stage II's that will custom ground for nitrous use. He said they give the exhaust valve a higher lift to help offset the extremities of the nitrous pressures and temperatures. I'll also be using their spring and titanium retainer kit which will work synergistically with the cams profiles and be able to both reduce and withstand the harmonics inside the valve train itself. The cams were around $700, the springs/retainers were $500, custom cam profile request (based on application and use) $50 and with shipping out the door totaled $1350.00. That's assuming my cam cores are redeemable. Website specifies roughly a 45HP gain. So I'm hoping to achieve somewhere around 350hp at the crank if not more. To me, that's some pretty low numbers given the amount of money I've put in. But then again, I'm use to running small block V8's and running 2 more cylinders. That's roughly 58hp per cylinder which would damn near a 470hp If it were a V8. I'd say that's pretty awesome power for its natural production!

Took the remainder of my intake parts back to the guy who's doing all my port and polishing work to have him match it ALL. Found this place called Maxbore.com (some of you might of heard of this guy...yes, that's ONE guy) and will be sending out my OEM throttle body to be enlarged and polished and then matched all the way back to my upper intakes "mouth" which also will be enlarged. Pretty cheap on his prices and has some excellent reviews...check him out.

RooEng

That would be great to see you crack the elusive 100hp/liter, na.

richardparker

iTrader: (7)

What type of things did julio have to say about the performance and warranty ?
I also have a pair sitting here that I could not get to idle.

I think maxbore only will get you to 71mm.
you should do the 76mm blox TB.

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

I may have missed it, but what are you tuning this on?

Stephen00TL

^
By yungone501

As soon as he completes the build, I have a friend of mine who is on stand by and anxiously awaiting the motor to do the install. It might take him 1-2 days and then I'll need another 1-2 days or so for looking everything over and ensuring everything is in place both mechanically and electrically. I extremely anal about how well I want this motor to run so I will be doing a lot of technical monitoring on datastream to see if there's and issues with powertrain management. If any are detected and unable to be rectified, I will switch to full stand alone unit. I'm trying to run this on factory electronics with tweaks and manipulations here and there. I do this for a living and have been for over 10 years so I have confidence I can use factory PCM! (fingers crossed)

zeta

iTrader: (1)

Not sure if this will help your cause; however, the thread below discusses ARP Head studs. It appears HeelToe may be an additional source to consider as well.

https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-performance-parts-modifications-112/arp-head-studs-866934/

Good Luck with your project.

yungone501

iTrader: (4)

He expressed how the cams were purposed and design originally for sandrails and also a lot of x-country endurance racing using the j-series motors. He also mentioned how most of the j blocks running are pushing a lot of power (no specific numbers) especially with performance head work and their cams installed...which I realize is a generalized statement when talking about adding performance parts to any engine.

As for the warranty, he did confirm that if any parts did fail prematurely, that Bisimoto would replace and parts that were damaged/broken as long as no installation faults were detected on the parts themselves. As theyve mentioned somewhere on this forum already about the notorious hardening issues, he reiterated that Honda's factory hardening process penetrates several millimeters deep in to the metal of the camshaft and that the retried process still leaves most of that intact. He reports that most, if not all, camshaft failures are due to inexperienced or incorrect installation and/or adjustments.

To summarize our conversation, it sounded like most other telephone conversations I've had with representatives about their products. The way I separate the good from the bad is the way that person answered my questioned and did they answer all of them, I look for word of mouth or online reviews, and of course their competitiveness in their industry. Given that there are so many assumptions of their hardening process and NO ACTUAL proof and how many people I seen through research that actually do use the Bisimoto cams, I believe I'll give them a fair shot.

You say you have a pair that you couldn't get to idle...can you elaborate?

richardparker

iTrader: (7)

The cams I have a little more aggressive than the level 2's.
The engine had NO cranking vacume and the injectors were just dumping fuel soaking plugs and the cylinders.
They were in a fresh build so I just wanted to get the motor running.
I assume it had to do with not enough compression,tune and not being able to adjust cam timming or any timming for that matter.

But I just bought a 3rd vehicle so I can get back to the car when I'm ready.
I just lost interest. It happens every now and then.

yungone501

iTrader: (4)

As Stephen pointed out, I'll be using trial and error with factory ECM. I'm anxious to see when and where the ECM falls at. In other words, what's going to be the "preventative factor" here? I plan on using another 100-150hp in addition to what I'm already running and as of yet...I've seen no faults. Sure, ignition control would be optimal and if I'm not happy with the power produced or any detrimental signs, I'll gladly throw a standalone.

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

Since youre running aftermarket cams, you need tuning. The stock ECU just can't keep up. And if you go with a standalone, youll need something else to control the auto tranny. Unless of course you plan on swapping it out for a manual tranny.

The J&R piggy back should do what you want it to do. Just make sure you get rid of the maps he ships with ASAP because they are absolute garbage.

yungone501

iTrader: (4)

I'm assuming the J&R is compatible with an auto trans being that it's a piggy back? What advantages can one expect with this unit when running nitrous on a cam'd motor? I've heard that there's no controller that's able to modify ignition timing other than standalones...that applies to this J&R unit as well?

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

^^^ with the JnR ECU you can practically do anything....advance timing/AFR map/

it also has inbuilt controllers so for example if you want the ECU to control WMI/etc it has the capability to do so....

Rodney (the guy behind JnR) is seriously backed out but he can hook u up....I still am waiting on couple things from him....

I know there was someone selling the JnR ECU in the BM....look into that

yungone501

iTrader: (4)

From what I just seen on their website, the ECU is for 04-08 TL's. It also states that it can be used for base and type s models. Other than the electronic throttle body, what else is different on the 3g TL's?...and I do mean in terms of electronics.

Is there a way to use this with a mechanically TB by simply doing a configuration adjustment or is that out of the equation?

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

^^^ infact mechanical TB is better as JnR cannot control idle...

yungone501

iTrader: (4)

After reading some of your posts, I decided to go a little further into researching the idea of running some sort of EMS on this build. Better safe than sorry and I don't want to wait until its too late. I have to ask though, most of you all recommend the J&R unit but why this over the AEM standalone? Not that I'm disagreeing but rather curious and would like to know why I'm buying one product over another.

Parker mentioned that he could never get the cams to idle...does anyone know if he was using factory ECM?