Okay so I went to gainesville raceway and was pretty dissapointed,
I did break torque to get my best 60' times. The temperature was 61 degrees and 84 percent humidity.

Okay so here it goes, first I have headers and intake so my best of 14.839 at 95.14 with a 2.29 60' is depressing...

Now for the weird part, for the 1st 2 runs I did gateshifting, and for the 5th run I did the manumatic. I would launch fine, gateshift into 2nd, and it was hard to tell but Im pretty sure it shifted and went back to redline real fast, or maybe didnt even shift, because as I was trying to shift into second gear it would never shift and it would hit the rev limiter and bounce off until I let go of the gas! (when i let go of the gas i did not gateshift to the next gear and it was fine so I know I wasnt in to low of a gear that it would hit the rev limiter and be my fault). Well on my 4th run in the right lane (my only run in that lane) for some reason my car hopped for the first 60'. All the runs that were in the 14's were just left in D5. Okay so back to the problem, after going home, I started from a street stop and it was flawless gateshifting from 1-2-3, so what was the deal on the track, was the car sliding and the car didnt realize that I was trying to shift but it wouldnt? I have no clue. I know gateshifting improves 1/4 mile times so thats why Im kinda mad. Also, I was brake torquing to about 1850 and then easing it in and my best 60'was 2.289 with 5,000 miles on Toyo T1S, how can I get in the 2.19-2.22 range? How much will that help? My actuator is fine, so why is my best time only a 14.83...was it the temp? With these mods shouldnt I be at least at 14.4-14.6...how is 95.18 mph for these mods?

Also I saw some Cl there at the track and he said he had intake and headers, he ran a 13.9, then I asked what he had, he said he had a 75 shot.

 

Humidity is not your friend. My first and only time at the track, I ran a 15.2 for my first ever run. My best was 14.7 @ 96or 97 mph. Check your Actuator (IMRC).
Did you have VSA off?
An elephant in your trunk?
Damn and you have some great track tires too. You would know if you hit the Rev limiter or not.

 

What were the exact weather conditions? Thats not bad for your first time out. Most of the people getting low 14's with the 5AT seem to go ALOT, so some more practice and maybe better weather will help I would say.

Also how much gas did you have, did you adjust air pressure at all, and were you shallow staging?

 

First off there was no elephant in my trunk, i checked the actuator and it was fine, VSA was off, the weird thing is that it would bounce off the rev limiter from 2nd gear going into third when i would gate shift, but then i ran the car on the street later that nite exactly like i did on the track and it worked fine. what do you think would cause it to bounce off the rev limiter on the track and not let me gate shift like i did on the street?

 

I was not shallow staging, I dont know what else to say about the weather, no wind 61 degrees and 84 humidity, I had 4 gallons of gas, and my tire pressure was F 37 R 36, just like normal driving conditions. I think I just dont have the power, my trap was 95.18, and darrin and others who get 14.3 with intake headers have like 97.** or 98 I thought

 

lower your front tire pressure to like 28 or so. and practice, I think that is the main thing.

 

what is the most important to me, is anyone have a clue why the car would ovverev and bounce off the limiter, when I shifted correctly using gateshift, but the car had no problem doing this on the street.

 

my car does it once in a while...if yuo go alitlle too deep on the 1-2 it wont shift ...until you let out for a few seconds

 

What rpm were you shifting at? For some reason my trans is very slow to react when I gate shift, so I don't use it anymore. It would take an extra 300-500 rpm from the moment I shifted to the time the trans actually shifted. So if yours was doing the same thing. you could of been bouncing off the rev limiter due to the trans not shifting quick enough.

 

He is trapping 94-95mph so I don't think its the actuator. Weather and inexperience probably played a part. Not to mention hitting the rev limiter while gateshifting (This has also happened to me a couple of times too). keep going and you will see better times. Just for comparo my best time is a 14.6 @96 and I have the same mods...apparently we must have gotten the limited edition type-slows!

 

You need to lower your tire pressure to 25 in the front.

Bouncing of the rev limiter kills trap speeds.

Next time try it in D4 so you don't have to worry about shifting.

Gate shifting only helps your times if you are good at it

 

Your front tire pressure is way too high. Needs to be around 25psi as stated. It's too humid this time of year in FL for the track. Go again in January. You went all the way to Gainsville? Is Moroso closed or something? Wish I knew, I would have taking the drive with you just to get out of work. For your shifting I don't know. I only took my auto when I had it once & I left it in D4.

 

oppps i meant 2-3

 

Hahha Jason, no I go to the University of Florida, so the track is right there for me. Type R Im glad to hear about the 2-3 shift, I possibly could have gateshifted at like 6900rpm, and the tranny took to much time and didnt shift at 7200rpm so i went to deep and it would bang off the limiter until you let go of the gas like you said. Also, with the toyos the setup should be 25F 40R? Lastly, everyone keeps saying my banging off the rev limiter mattered, well for all the runs in the 14's I left it in D5, and still pulled off a best of 14.83 at 95.14 with a 60 foot 2.297, so I dont understand how inexperience plays a part in this one, in D5 with a 2.297 and my mods shouldnt I be looking at a 14.5?

 

Don't take this the wrong way, but it is all about inexperience:

1) Your tire pressure was jacked up 12 psi too high.
2) Your 60's really aren't great. a 2.297 is actually pretty bad considering some people can pull off 2.0's and consistent < 2.15's
3) A trap speed of 95 is about where you should be considering the humidity
4) Elevation of the track?

Nailing the rev limiter kills your trap speed. Even though I used to trap regularly in the 99-100 range, if I hit the limiter that could fall to as low as 97-98 depending on how bad the fuel cut was.

Your 60' is holding you back from advancing your time. You should be able to do a 2.1 with those tires. That would take almost 4 tenths off your ET so you'd be closer to 14.4. Not all tracks are prepped the same so you might not be able to get good traction like some others do.

There is nothing wrong with your car. Keep practicing.

 

btw ill be at g ville next really cold weather...

 

mrsteve pretty much has it down. Overinflated tires would provide insufficient contact patch (mainly in the center) and cause the tires to spin which could otherwise be prevented by lowering the pressure.

I'm still running the factory rolling stock, and I'm usually in the low to mid 2.2xx in the 60'. Kind of sucks, but even when I nailed the launch, the best I got was 2.19x. I think that's the limit of stock tires, as far as my skills are concerned.

My best run so far is 14.5@99mph and that was with a just-decent launch. Trapping at 99, I should be running a bit quicker, but my launch and 60' times are killing me. I hope to get some decent tires and wheels next season.


As for your question in post #14, leaving it in D5 means the TCM would shift at the preset shift points. By gate-shifting, you could hold it for a little bit longer and it really will make a difference. You just have to keep practicing gate-shifting.

 

We seen you at the track last night. I found Justins times from 2 weeks ago in Gainseville when he had the same mods as you. Here they are and do you ever go to Jax Raceways?

1) 60' 2.240
1/8 9.555
1/4 14.769@94.64


2) 60' 2.289
1/8 9.736
1/4 15.035@ 93.06


3) 60' 2.217
1/8 9.530
1/4 15.736@94.97

Best run on the bottle last night was 13.518 @ 106.33.

 

The guy with the 75shot headers and intake ran crappy too. He should have ran a 13.5

 

Hey ya I only saw one of your runs last night,

but those times u listed were for a 01-03 Cls with intake and headers? With those 60 times why is he running 15.736 and 15.035, is something wrong with his acuator?

By the way I did brake torquing to 1850 then hit the gas, I didnt have much wheelspin but my best was 2.289 60'....what method can I use to hit a 2.20 60'....would the tire pressure do it? If I did get this am I looking at around a 14.55, would my trap speed increase?

also I realize for the track the tire pressure should be at 25F 40F, but for normal driving for treadware is 37F 36R okay for the Toyos in 215/50/17

 

Read the post right above yours, thats him, his best run was a 13.5

 

I think the manual suggest 32psi, but 37psi isnt off the charts. It'll probably increase steering response, but the ride may be affected a touch.

Was there alot of spin, or did it seem like it was hooking pretty good? People think that lower tire pressure automatically means faster ET's, but thats not always true. Unless you are spinning you should not lower the fronts. The lower the psi the more rolling resistance there is, and sometimes even if you hook better your ET will be slower because the improved launch cant overcome the rolling resistance over the full 1/4 mile.

You should always pump up the rears to 45psi (or whatever the max psi is on the sidewall) and run with as little gas as safely possible. I dont think weather was too much to blame, because even if humidity was 84%, 61* is still pretty cool. My CL-S seems to be much more affected by temp than humidity.

 

with a sticky tire likt the t1-s no need to go all the way down to 25psi, go down to 28, i can pull 2.1 60's on my proxes 4's at 27-28 psi in the front, put the backs to 45ish, no more than 45 though, since your havin trouble wth the gate shift try ss and alls u gotta do is the 2-3 shift and put it up in 4th once u cross the line

go to moroso, i hear that track is super sticky, u can go 2.0 60' there

 

Thanks darrin, yea i dont know what the deal was with the 2-3 shift,

I dont know if i want to go to the gainesville track anyime soon as it left layers of tar or burnt rubber in my wheel wells and the side of the car, I now have to get some goo gone and work on it a shitload tomorrow.

 

Honestly it sounds like you were waiting too long to shift, and that is why you were hitting the limiter. You can try putting it in D3 or D4. If I get back to the track before I sell my Auto I am going to try leaving it in D3. I use SS mode 99.5% of the time in my normal everday driving, so I used SS and Gate shifting at the track.

 

Thats probably VHT in your wheelwells. They use it to get the track sticky for high hp cars, and its a sign of a well prepped track. Just get some tar/bug remover and it'll come off easily.

 

If you wipe it off right after your run it will come off very easily.

 

Well its only been a day and today it wouldnt come off without me picking it off with my fingernails, so now tomorrow I will have to use goo gone and work on it for a while since its all in the wheel wells and even on my paint.

By the way has anyone ran the same night with SS or gateshift and then with D5, and with similiar 60's what was the difference in Et, I am trying to figure out how much I could gain with proper gateshifting

 

Renegade,
That has happened to me as well. When at the track try and not brake torque for too long as our trannys(converters) don't like the extra heat. try and keep it under 5 seconds if possible.

 

lowering the tire pressure will only lower your trap speeds so that's not a good way to raise your traps. I've run my best traps just driving off the street onto the track, with no tire pressure changes. Personally, as lame as this is, check your spark plugs (when's the last time you replaced those)? Also, this is a far fetch here... I noticed that at the track I boost way less (hotter surface temps), maybe that's affecting your tranny? Also, the track usually provides more grip than the street so that may be the reason the tranny is having a longer delay in the gate shift. Also, I'm sure at the track you were sitting there braketorqueing for the launch, that burns the hell out of the tranny... I'm guessing you don't have a tranny cooler... well that cooks the fluid and can cause a delay on the shift. Remember that the airflow at the track isn't the same as the street, also it's hotter at the track. Maybe a bad tank of gas? I suppose you were on 93... who knows man, personally I say go back there asap with new spark plugs (if you haven't changed them in a while i.e. 20K) and see how she does, just keep driving it down the track getting more and more experience. Also, maybe reset the ecu, that can't hurt.

Whoever said Moroso was a good track is sooo wrong. In the left lane you will find one lovely dip at about the 1/8th mile, and on the right lane you will find a lovely dip at the 300' mark and another at the 1/8th mile... so take your pick, lose it once or twice. As all tracks, sometimes their track prep is great and other times it sucks and you just sit there spinning.

 

I sure haven't. I ran 16's at Moroso with 2.4, 2.6, & 2.8 60's with my tires set at 36PSI. Once I lowered then to 25-24 my times improved. Still can't can't launch worth a damn(inexperience). Only been there 3 times in the last 2 years.

 

^ Don't take this personally, but I don't think you know much about the CL-S at the track....

Yes lowering the tire pressure will lower trap speeds, but this will only matter if you go extreme with the drop in PSI. If he can't get off the line (i.e., 3.0 60's like his first run) who cares what his trap speed is? Maybe on your Volvo things are different, but in the CL-S you need to lower you tire pressure in the front to around 25 psi, trust ME on this one

Next, spark plugs? Our plugs are good for at least 90k miles and aren't scheduled to be changed till 105k. I had 77k miles on my plugs and trapped at 101 MPH once and 100 several times (read: best trap speeds ever for an N/A auto CL-S). His plugs aren't the problems.

Yes brake torquing the transmission too long will seriously heat up the fluid and may cause a delay in shifts. But again, I've done it over 125 times (don't do it now with the S/C) and as long as you keep it to under 5 seconds the car will shift fine if you tell it to shift when you are supposed to (i.e., 7000 rpm so it shifts right before the fuel cut).

I've had the problem a few times where the car won't shift from 2 -> 3 while i'm on the street. No brake torquing, just WOT runs. It's something in the transmission that won't let you slam that 2 - > 3 gear if you are running too high in the redline. I believe it has something to do with our "grade logic system" in the transmission which is supposed to hold a lower gear while you are going down hills to slow the car down as every time this has happened to me I was going down hill. I've never had a problem at the track.

What are you talking about with all this nonsense of air flow and surface temperature at the track? That doesn't matter one bit! Everyone who has posted 1/4 mile times ran at the track, therefore they ran under these "conditions" you posted and ran much better times than he did. This variable you threw into the mix isn't valid.

His problems, as I previously stated are:

a) driver error
b) tire pressure
c) track conditions (i.e., humidity, temps, head wind)

Did you ever state what the altitude of the track was? I doubt it was very high seeing that you are in Florida, but maybe, I dunno.

 

^ Don't take this personally, but I don't think you know much about the CL-S at the track....

Yes lowering the tire pressure will lower trap speeds, but this will only matter if you go extreme with the drop in PSI. If he can't get off the line (i.e., 3.0 60's like his first run) who cares what his trap speed is? Maybe on your Volvo things are different, but in the CL-S you need to lower you tire pressure in the front to around 25 psi, trust ME on this one

Next, spark plugs? Our plugs are good for at least 90k miles and aren't scheduled to be changed till 105k. I had 77k miles on my plugs and trapped at 101 MPH once and 100 several times (read: best trap speeds ever for an N/A auto CL-S). His plugs aren't the problems.

Yes brake torquing the transmission too long will seriously heat up the fluid and may cause a delay in shifts. But again, I've done it over 125 times (don't do it now with the S/C) and as long as you keep it to under 5 seconds the car will shift fine if you tell it to shift when you are supposed to (i.e., 7000 rpm so it shifts right before the fuel cut).

I've had the problem a few times where the car won't shift from 2 -> 3 while i'm on the street. No brake torquing, just WOT runs. It's something in the transmission that won't let you slam that 2 - > 3 gear if you are running too high in the redline. I believe it has something to do with our "grade logic system" in the transmission which is supposed to hold a lower gear while you are going down hills to slow the car down as every time this has happened to me I was going down hill. I've never had a problem at the track.

What are you talking about with all this nonsense of air flow and surface temperature at the track? That doesn't matter one bit! Everyone who has posted 1/4 mile times ran at the track, therefore they ran under these "conditions" you posted and ran much better times than he did. This variable you threw into the mix isn't valid.

His problems, as I previously stated are:

a) driver error
b) tire pressure
c) track conditions (i.e., humidity, temps, head wind)

Did you ever state what the altitude of the track was? I doubt it was very high seeing that you are in Florida, but maybe, I dunno.

 

he's pretty much at sea level. How about cleaning the air filter? We actually felt a bit of a gain on my buddy's CL-S when we cleaned his CAI's cone filter (sad but true)

Also, even if he dropped his tire pressure from xx to 25 or 28 as you guys are saying. Let's say he cuts a 2.19 vs. his 2.279, we'll just say it's .1 better... so .2 at the end of the 1/4 so instead of a 14.8 @ 95 he'll run a 14.6 @ 94.5 wow

I mean, my measly volvo on street tire pressure ran a 13.8 @ 102... so I'm just going by what's worked for me

just because your plugs were fine, doesn't mean his are.

 

Your measly volvo has a turbo and is obviously making 240-250 whp based upon that trap speed.

 

Anyone else here agree that tire pressure won't make a .5 difference in times when your 60' is already a 2.279? Or am I solo in this?

 

You're solo on this one buddy. Tire pressure make a big difference on contact patch area when at the track.

 

but that means he'd have to take his 60' down to a 2.079 to get a .4 difference at the end of the track. How common are 2.079's on these cars man?

and no matter what 60' he cuts he's still going to be trapping ~93-95ish which is low for his mods, so how can LOWERING his tire pressure help RAISE his trap up 2-3 MPH

 

The good thing about lowering your 60ft(by less tire pressure) is that is usually the amount of gain on the run. Going from a 2.2 to a 2.0 or even 1.9 gets you a net of .2-.3 on the1/4 but not a full .5 - if that is what your asking. There is a bit of ballance if you get to much stick then the engine doesn't reach it's sweet spot so quickly but if you get too much tire spin then you just blown your run as well. What works good for me is just a little lower pressure over stock but no so much that I don't get that of the the line "chirp".

 

Damn, I really suck at this! The time above for the 3rd run is wrong. He ran a 14.736, NOT a 15.736. I sent you these so you could see what another car with the same mods as you ran at the same track. His 60' times are never that good and neither of us have a clue why... any ideas? Also.... for those getting confused by this... these times are before he was spraying! Are you going to Jax raceways anytime soon?