1st impressions of SC in Auto CLS
#1
Oh...Behave!
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1st impressions of SC in Auto CLS
1) Total installation time ~ 18 hrs including doing the trans cooler installation and ATF flush. (Some of Comptech's instructions and steps are out of order, very confusing, and have changed since they first did them - which required redoing things a couple times. Also some pics are not from the CLS! [Accord] ) I could probably do it again in 14 hrs. total, now knowing what I know.
BTW, how much did you guys pay to have them installed at the Dealership???...$1,000 - $1,200???
2) I'm a bit disappointed in the "detuned" #'s for the amount of money spent.
At the beginning of this year, I remember seeing #'s posted on their site with a Dyno chart indicating a 48-52 hp increase and targeted boost of 5.5 PSI. 3 weeks ago it said 38-42 hp; now it says 34-40hp! And they have lowered boost so not to exceed 4 PSI. But in reality, from my Dyno runs, PSI is in the mid to upper 2's to low 3's thru the entire RPM range until 6600 rpm it goes to 3.41 PSI & 6800 rpm it goes to 3.98 PSI.
I dynoed almost identically to their posted dyno - 262 whp and 221 wtq - pre SC dyno was 220whp, so 42 whp increase, or approximately 20% ...Oh, on the topic of Dynos - this was a "Dyno Dynamics" brand which Comptech uses - it is a true and more accurate measurement than the "Dyno-jet" weighted drum dyno. According to both Comptech and the Dyno's Mfg's Rep, the Dyno-Jet is a "calculated measurement", not a true measurement, and can OVERSTATE actual hp by 12% - 19% in many cases.
OK, back to impressions :
3) The engine sounds the same at idle and low RPM's, but actually sounds QUIETER than before at WOT - the "whaaahhh" CAI intake sucking sound has been replaced with a stealth-like jet engine sound - "wuuuhhhhhsssssszzzz".
4) It takes until ~ 2500 rpm to start feeling it pulling more than before, then continues pulling until the VTEC hits, then MAN DOES IT REALLY ROCK! ...5K-7K rpm is AMAZING! The most fun is when you are cruising along in 3rd or 4th, and you hammer it so it downshifts and it's in the VTEC zone - it pulls to 120 MPH SOOOO fast - it's an incredible rush!
5) Tranny - NO problems! In fact, it shifts much smoother and is seemless @ WOT thru 3rd and 4th - you don't even feel it shift - it's just like it's jet powered!
6) Temps - just slighty higher at normal operating temps - only one notch higher on the gauge.
Intake manifold and Blower temps are at 137 degrees F measured by an infrared thermometer, so the intercooler project sounds like a good option.
FYI - I spoke to Shad (a tech @ Comptech involved in the original development and testing) - he said that they had severe detonation problems with the higher boost due to the stock ECU A/F limitations on the Auto - apparently, there is a small RPM range that is running way too lean @ 5.5 PSI. In fact, he said they blew a motor during testing! The piggy back ECU unit will solve the problem, but is "back-burnered" right now due to the overwhelming R&D of new TSX and TLX products - they will probably get to it at the end of the year during the winter. They are hoping to get the HP #'s to the same level as the 6 speeds (ie. 55hp - 60hp) And IF you put on a 2nd stage high-boost pulley, it will VOID your 2 yr Comptech product warranty.
BTW, how much did you guys pay to have them installed at the Dealership???...$1,000 - $1,200???
2) I'm a bit disappointed in the "detuned" #'s for the amount of money spent.
At the beginning of this year, I remember seeing #'s posted on their site with a Dyno chart indicating a 48-52 hp increase and targeted boost of 5.5 PSI. 3 weeks ago it said 38-42 hp; now it says 34-40hp! And they have lowered boost so not to exceed 4 PSI. But in reality, from my Dyno runs, PSI is in the mid to upper 2's to low 3's thru the entire RPM range until 6600 rpm it goes to 3.41 PSI & 6800 rpm it goes to 3.98 PSI.
I dynoed almost identically to their posted dyno - 262 whp and 221 wtq - pre SC dyno was 220whp, so 42 whp increase, or approximately 20% ...Oh, on the topic of Dynos - this was a "Dyno Dynamics" brand which Comptech uses - it is a true and more accurate measurement than the "Dyno-jet" weighted drum dyno. According to both Comptech and the Dyno's Mfg's Rep, the Dyno-Jet is a "calculated measurement", not a true measurement, and can OVERSTATE actual hp by 12% - 19% in many cases.
OK, back to impressions :
3) The engine sounds the same at idle and low RPM's, but actually sounds QUIETER than before at WOT - the "whaaahhh" CAI intake sucking sound has been replaced with a stealth-like jet engine sound - "wuuuhhhhhsssssszzzz".
4) It takes until ~ 2500 rpm to start feeling it pulling more than before, then continues pulling until the VTEC hits, then MAN DOES IT REALLY ROCK! ...5K-7K rpm is AMAZING! The most fun is when you are cruising along in 3rd or 4th, and you hammer it so it downshifts and it's in the VTEC zone - it pulls to 120 MPH SOOOO fast - it's an incredible rush!
5) Tranny - NO problems! In fact, it shifts much smoother and is seemless @ WOT thru 3rd and 4th - you don't even feel it shift - it's just like it's jet powered!
6) Temps - just slighty higher at normal operating temps - only one notch higher on the gauge.
Intake manifold and Blower temps are at 137 degrees F measured by an infrared thermometer, so the intercooler project sounds like a good option.
FYI - I spoke to Shad (a tech @ Comptech involved in the original development and testing) - he said that they had severe detonation problems with the higher boost due to the stock ECU A/F limitations on the Auto - apparently, there is a small RPM range that is running way too lean @ 5.5 PSI. In fact, he said they blew a motor during testing! The piggy back ECU unit will solve the problem, but is "back-burnered" right now due to the overwhelming R&D of new TSX and TLX products - they will probably get to it at the end of the year during the winter. They are hoping to get the HP #'s to the same level as the 6 speeds (ie. 55hp - 60hp) And IF you put on a 2nd stage high-boost pulley, it will VOID your 2 yr Comptech product warranty.
#2
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very nice. but that does suck about the boost limitations. what kind of tranny fluid are you running?
any plans of taking it to the strip?
any plans of taking it to the strip?
#3
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Originally posted by mattg
very nice. but that does suck about the boost limitations. what kind of tranny fluid are you running?
any plans of taking it to the strip?
very nice. but that does suck about the boost limitations. what kind of tranny fluid are you running?
any plans of taking it to the strip?
No plans of going to a drag strip.
#4
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mobil one tranny fluid? did comptech suggest that?
#5
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Re: 1st impressions of SC in Auto CLS
Originally posted by Ogolden1
apparently, there is a small RPM range that is running way too lean @ 5.5 PSI.
apparently, there is a small RPM range that is running way too lean @ 5.5 PSI.
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Congrats on the purchase and install, I know that extra pull from enywhere in the rev band is nice. It allows the car to pull out with more authority and without needing to run it up to redline everytime.
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Originally posted by fender4
Good review,,, whats the 70-80 mph cruise mpg's,,
Good review,,, whats the 70-80 mph cruise mpg's,,
#13
Happy CL-S Pilot
This is only means one thing the SC and Auto does not go well and it is NOT cost effective. CLS-6 maybe another story.
Thank you for sharing the info, please could tell us what was the Torque before and after. this is the best indicate of % gain in the engine performance.
Also, if there is a lean Can't a VAFC controller go the trick and fix the lean condition?
Nashua.
Thank you for sharing the info, please could tell us what was the Torque before and after. this is the best indicate of % gain in the engine performance.
Also, if there is a lean Can't a VAFC controller go the trick and fix the lean condition?
Nashua.
#14
teh Senior Instigator
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I was wondering what happened to you! Looks like i'm gonna have to hook the nitrous back up and see if you can finally take me
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#16
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Originally posted by Nashua_Night_Hawk
Also, if there is a lean Can't a VAFC controller go the trick and fix the lean condition?
Also, if there is a lean Can't a VAFC controller go the trick and fix the lean condition?
Now that I learned why I was getting knock with the higher boost pulley I do feel my extra injector might work out well. Now I just need to get it, or a replacement on the car again.
#17
Oh...Behave!
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Originally posted by mattg
mobil one tranny fluid? did comptech suggest that?
mobil one tranny fluid? did comptech suggest that?
Hell, I ran it in the stock car and am STILL on the ORIGINAL Tranny with 66K hard-driving miles! - I've been using the Mobil One Synthetics for years in all my vehicles, including my dirt and street bikes. The "Special" Honda ATF is a Marketing Scam - just like the special oils for motorcycles. I've run "Red Cap" for years w/ no clutch slippage in the bikes.
#18
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Originally posted by fender4
Good review,,, whats the 70-80 mph cruise mpg's,,
Good review,,, whats the 70-80 mph cruise mpg's,,
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#19
Oh...Behave!
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Originally posted by scalbert
Congrats on the purchase and install, I know that extra pull from enywhere in the rev band is nice. It allows the car to pull out with more authority and without needing to run it up to redline everytime.
Congrats on the purchase and install, I know that extra pull from enywhere in the rev band is nice. It allows the car to pull out with more authority and without needing to run it up to redline everytime.
BTW, I found out why I was running a little hot - the water hose that goes into the TCS next to the corner of the Ice Box was too close when I put the box in and it tore a pinhole in the hose which was getting bigger and bigger as I drove- I was losing coolant/ water until it started blowing out steam this afternoon. All fixed now!
Scalbert, did you install yours, or have the dealership do it?
...if so, how much was it? ...just curious!
Also anyone else have it installed by the Dealer? ...HOW MUCH?
#21
Oh...Behave!
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Originally posted by Nashua_Night_Hawk
This is only means one thing the SC and Auto does not go well and it is NOT cost effective. CLS-6 maybe another story.
Thank you for sharing the info, please could tell us what was the Torque before and after. this is the best indicate of % gain in the engine performance.
Nashua.
This is only means one thing the SC and Auto does not go well and it is NOT cost effective. CLS-6 maybe another story.
Thank you for sharing the info, please could tell us what was the Torque before and after. this is the best indicate of % gain in the engine performance.
Nashua.
The max gain in Torque was 36.2 ft.lbs @ 5000 rpm. Dynoed 221 ft lbs.
The average thru the entire rpm range is in the ~ 28 ft lbs. range.
I think they used a larger diameter pulley to "detune it".
The PSI is HALF of what it was supposed to be!
#22
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Originally posted by Ogolden1
I was losing coolant/ water until it started blowing out steam this afternoon. All fixed now!
Scalbert, did you install yours, or have the dealership do it?
I was losing coolant/ water until it started blowing out steam this afternoon. All fixed now!
Scalbert, did you install yours, or have the dealership do it?
TB Coolant Bypass
I did it myself in about 8 - 9 hours total. It was done over three nights though, beginning with the fuel system the first night. The second night included the electrical aspects including the alternator pulley and new bracket. The final night was the rest of the mechanical.
No clue on cost but I would have to assume in the $1000 range.
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#23
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Originally posted by Nashua_Night_Hawk
BTW, how did they detune the Auto version? different pulley?
BTW, how did they detune the Auto version? different pulley?
#25
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Originally posted by Ogolden1
Sure, but you're on the other side of the country!
Sure, but you're on the other side of the country!
you forgot about me man!
the new screenname probably threw you off. It use to be CLpower, the nitroused first gen that showed you his tails. Seriously though, i'll find all my NOS stuff and hook back up the bottle so we can see what your baby can do now!
#26
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Originally posted by ghander
you forgot about me man!
the new screenname probably threw you off. It use to be CLpower, the nitroused first gen that showed you his tails. Seriously though, i'll find all my NOS stuff and hook back up the bottle so we can see what your baby can do now!
you forgot about me man!
the new screenname probably threw you off. It use to be CLpower, the nitroused first gen that showed you his tails. Seriously though, i'll find all my NOS stuff and hook back up the bottle so we can see what your baby can do now!
#27
Subie Dubie
Originally posted by Ogolden1
Thanks, I appreciate it!
BTW, I found out why I was running a little hot - the water hose that goes into the TCS next to the corner of the Ice Box was too close when I put the box in and it tore a pinhole in the hose which was getting bigger and bigger as I drove- I was losing coolant/ water until it started blowing out steam this afternoon. All fixed now!
Scalbert, did you install yours, or have the dealership do it?
...if so, how much was it? ...just curious!
Also anyone else have it installed by the Dealer? ...HOW MUCH?
Thanks, I appreciate it!
BTW, I found out why I was running a little hot - the water hose that goes into the TCS next to the corner of the Ice Box was too close when I put the box in and it tore a pinhole in the hose which was getting bigger and bigger as I drove- I was losing coolant/ water until it started blowing out steam this afternoon. All fixed now!
Scalbert, did you install yours, or have the dealership do it?
...if so, how much was it? ...just curious!
Also anyone else have it installed by the Dealer? ...HOW MUCH?
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#28
Oh...Behave!
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Originally posted by ghander
you forgot about me man!
the new screenname probably threw you off. It use to be CLpower, the nitroused first gen that showed you his tails. Seriously though, i'll find all my NOS stuff and hook back up the bottle so we can see what your baby can do now!
you forgot about me man!
the new screenname probably threw you off. It use to be CLpower, the nitroused first gen that showed you his tails. Seriously though, i'll find all my NOS stuff and hook back up the bottle so we can see what your baby can do now!
Yeah, that sounds like a plan. I think you will still probably get me because your little CL flies on the laughing gas!
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#29
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Originally posted by Ogolden1
BTW, - the water hose that goes into the TCS next to the corner of the Ice Box was too close when I put the box in and it tore a pinhole in the hose which was getting bigger and bigger as I drove- I was losing coolant/ water until it started blowing out steam this afternoon. All fixed now!
BTW, - the water hose that goes into the TCS next to the corner of the Ice Box was too close when I put the box in and it tore a pinhole in the hose which was getting bigger and bigger as I drove- I was losing coolant/ water until it started blowing out steam this afternoon. All fixed now!
I am still running the stock exhaust manifolds and believe that's increasing my boost levels. On 93 octane, the 6 psi pulley is running just over 6.5 psi and runs great with the stock tunning, and stock exhaust. Adding headers could change things though. Steve will have his 6# pulley back on soon, with headers, so we'll see how he does with it.
I thought the 6MT and 5AT stock boost pullies were the same size. I'll measure mine when I get it back next week, and maybe Steve can check his out when the 6# goes back on.
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We know that the alternator pulley is the same so the only variable is the blower pulley. I just did a quick check on it and it was about 3-7/8 inch outside edge diameter. The top of the tooth diameter would be about 3-3/4 inch.
Check yours to see if it is the same and we can confirm that auto and manual blower systems do use the same pulley.
That is unless the crank pulley is a different size which I highly doubt. From what I recall, mine is just over 7 inches.
Check yours to see if it is the same and we can confirm that auto and manual blower systems do use the same pulley.
That is unless the crank pulley is a different size which I highly doubt. From what I recall, mine is just over 7 inches.
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Originally posted by scalbert
We know that the alternator pulley is the same so the only variable is the blower pulley. I just did a quick check on it and it was about 3-7/8 inch outside edge diameter. The top of the tooth diameter would be about 3-3/4 inch.
Check yours to see if it is the same and we can confirm that auto and manual blower systems do use the same pulley.
That is unless the crank pulley is a different size which I highly doubt. From what I recall, mine is just over 7 inches.
We know that the alternator pulley is the same so the only variable is the blower pulley. I just did a quick check on it and it was about 3-7/8 inch outside edge diameter. The top of the tooth diameter would be about 3-3/4 inch.
Check yours to see if it is the same and we can confirm that auto and manual blower systems do use the same pulley.
That is unless the crank pulley is a different size which I highly doubt. From what I recall, mine is just over 7 inches.
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So,,,,
Originally posted by ModAddict
It's the same kit, it's just that the 5AT has a higher parasitic drivetrain loss. It's the same way with most automatics and their manual counterparts.
It's the same kit, it's just that the 5AT has a higher parasitic drivetrain loss. It's the same way with most automatics and their manual counterparts.
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So it is established that they are the same and good to know!!!
When are your headers going to be in??
I went for a run and was thinking about why you haven't experienced any knock at all. I wonder if the greater scavenging with the headers, particularly when the cam lobes are switched, will cause it to go leaner and knock might become apparent.
The greater scavenging should cause it to go a bit leaner but to what extent I am unsure. This will be interesting to see what type of changes occur when the headers are added.
BTW, I’m not wishing any knock on you, just curious as to the differences.
When are your headers going to be in??
I went for a run and was thinking about why you haven't experienced any knock at all. I wonder if the greater scavenging with the headers, particularly when the cam lobes are switched, will cause it to go leaner and knock might become apparent.
The greater scavenging should cause it to go a bit leaner but to what extent I am unsure. This will be interesting to see what type of changes occur when the headers are added.
BTW, I’m not wishing any knock on you, just curious as to the differences.
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#34
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Originally posted by scalbert
When are your headers going to be in??
When are your headers going to be in??
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Maybe shipping the end of next week, but then they go to JetHot or Swain Tech for coating. That will add two weeks.
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#35
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Originally posted by ModAddict
Scalbert's bypass might be the way to go anyway. I am still running the stock exhaust manifolds and believe that's increasing my boost levels. On 93 octane, the 6 psi pulley is running just over 6.5 psi
Scalbert's bypass might be the way to go anyway. I am still running the stock exhaust manifolds and believe that's increasing my boost levels. On 93 octane, the 6 psi pulley is running just over 6.5 psi
Is this a Blower replacement pulley, or the alternator pulley?
SCALBERT: The bypass looks like a good way to reduce the intake air heat - are there any ill effects at coldstart, etc...
"So it is established that they are the same and good to know!!!"
I think the main difference (aside from parasitical drain) is in the ECM settings - remember Comptech said that the Auto fuel/air ratios were programmed differently than the 6 speeds!
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Originally posted by Ogolden1
SCALBERT: The bypass looks like a good way to reduce the intake air heat - are there any ill effects at coldstart, etc...
"So it is established that they are the same and good to know!!!"
I think the main difference (aside from parasitical drain) is in the ECM settings - remember Comptech said that the Auto fuel/air ratios were programmed differently than the 6 speeds!
SCALBERT: The bypass looks like a good way to reduce the intake air heat - are there any ill effects at coldstart, etc...
"So it is established that they are the same and good to know!!!"
I think the main difference (aside from parasitical drain) is in the ECM settings - remember Comptech said that the Auto fuel/air ratios were programmed differently than the 6 speeds!
The ESM could be set differently. Time for ya'll to pull out you Digital Multi-Meter and check the ESM output voltage. Comptech provided test points on it for easy testing and setting. Mine is currently set at 2.91 volts. This might be lower for the automatics whicle running fuel higher pressures. I wonder if there is a difference in the FPR gain rate??
Brad, what was your FP with 20 inches HG and no vacuum??
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Originally posted by GOT PSI?
Blower pulley.
Blower pulley.
Left is the higher boost pulley, right is the stock Comptech pulley:
#40
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Originally posted by Ogolden1
What PSI was your "stock" pulley running?
What PSI was your "stock" pulley running?
Is this a Blower replacement pulley, or the alternator pulley?
I think the main difference (aside from parasitical drain) is in the ECM settings - remember Comptech said that the Auto fuel/air ratios were programmed differently than the 6 speeds!
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