Hi guys,

I was wondering if anybody know any articles or magazines with info on how to fine tune "camber" and how much to lower your car, front and back to achieve the most neutral handling on FWD such as our TSX.

Also, I have a set of coilovers, and if I adjust the front end to be stiffer (shocks) than the rear end, will that decrease understeer while increase oversteer? How do you work the ride quality with camber and ride height to get the most neutral feeling, in other word, less understeer and more oversteer on our car.

Any suggestions and tips is much appreciated

KC

 

No, stiffening the front will increase understeer.

I see in you sig that you have a RSB to be installed; put that on first and revaluate the feel.

Then, you can play around with your tire pressure and your strut damping to make it more neutral. Here's a cool guide...........

Suspension tuning......

 

^^^ yep

stiffen the rear..

i have BC coilovers also .. i have my setup i think 7 in front 11 in rear... with rear sway..

i love how it handles, i just think my cars lowered a little too much..

k gotta take part 2 math midterm now..

 

LannyM, thanks for the link, will most likely have the RSB installed by next week. Then I'll play around with the suspension, will keep post updated

Black, that's exactly what I have my rear setting at, 7 click from the softest. Now I have the front at 6 clicks, and feels the car "plows" more than normal. I'm gonna tune it back to 1 click from the softest and see what happens. How much do you have your car lowered? I can fit 2 fingers in the wheelgap up front and 1 finger in the back, but planning to go lower

KC

 

How to get more of the oversteer effect in the absence of a thicker rear bar,

1. Do not lower, if you do, keep the rear higher so CG is higher. (lowering promotes understeer/stability)
2. Use tires with less grip but good stable quality carcass.
3. More front negative camber up to 3 degrees and less in the back.
4. increase front track. reduce rear track.
5. play with tire pressures, using much less in the rear

This should get you closer to neutrality.

Item #2 I refer to all four tires. with less grip to work with, the rear roll stiffness from the Comptech 21mm bar can easily reach the outside tire's limits before the fronts do. Tyres with higher grip tend to favour rear end stability and hence increase understeer but feels stable.

 

everything you've listed there will work but effectively make the car slower... whats the point? understeer is a natural part of a FWD car, if you want it removed altogether don't buy a fwd in the first place. Just get a sway bar and adjust the front and rear camber and understeer should be reduced but it'll always be there to some extent.

 

aren't there shops that specialize in this?
i plan on having a shop lower the car using some TEINs

but i don't want to screw up the handling of the car.. any suggestions?
is it possible to lower a car and keep it really close to "factory handling" ?

not a drastic drop.. just maybe 2 inches?

 

i could barely fit my finger in the front or rear.. i have to put my finger in sideways..i dont really mind if i have understeer during normal driving conditions. if i ever track i will raise the car, get different tires.. and yadda yadda yadda..

 

Most or all the points I have listed will make the car go faster not slower through the turns. The height reduction if done merely to improve looks will not help the cornering speeds much. But the rest especially the camber helps set up the car, not for every single condition but where it counts with reference to the way one drives.

Making the car more neutral enhances the possibilities of taking a corner, ie by steering, by throttle or a combination of both. Understeer is just that. This is why the DC2 is still regarded as one of the best cars in the FWD league.

In this Forum its about the TSX, we can't get away with the fact that it is a FWD and Honda specializes in FWD. FWIW its a damn good car but has been tuned to be safe as it is intended for mass market sales unlike the DC2. It errs on the side of understeer. So what is wrong if we want to make the TSX handle better? Tuners have capitilized on this fact and have provided various means of making it more neutral and as you rightly point out understeer is still with us and for that matter on every single BMW or Merc. Everyone can drive an understeering car but few can manage one that oversteers.

Nothing wrong if we want to reduce understeer.

 

BlackTSXer, why raise the car when on track? I understand that if you lower too much (meaning seriously aggressive drop), handling actually deteriorates. but how much do you raise it when u track? also, what kind of tires do you put on and do you have oem rims/tires right now? my apologies for bombarding you with questions, but i will eventually take my car to willows after warranty expires, so it'd be nice to do my hw now

Sebo, as far as I know, nearly all aftermarket coilover sets and springs will stiffen up your ride quality. I've been in my friend's tsx with Tananbe coilovers and "to me" it felt exactly like the stock suspension, only better handling and lower stance. Teins coilovers have very nice quality and performance, many of the forum members are running either the Basics, Super Street (SS), or Flexes, prices jump up respectively. Do a quick search and you'll find opinions and reviews.

al8818
I've read on one of the tuner magazines saying that if you lower too much, the car will actually handle worse? can you give me like a ball park figure to what that is?

-KC

 

I don't know if there is a ball park figure to what this is because every car is different. It's not because of how much the car is lower, but it has to do with where the roll center is as a result of lowering the car. Roll center is an imaginary point of a car with respect to its suspension geometry. For double a-arm/wishbone suspension, draw a line through the two mounting points of the upper arm. Do the same for the lower arm. Extend the 2 lines until they intersect with each other. Then draw a line from the intersection to the center point of the tire where it contacts the ground. This line will intersect with the centerline of the car. This intersecting point is where the roll center of the car is. The picture below shows how the roll center is determined in double a-arm/wishbone suspension. When you lower the car, the location of the roll center changes. The handling of a car becomes worse when this roll center is located below ground. IIRC, the optimal location of the roll center is right on the ground or slightly above the ground. In order to determine where the roll center is in your car, you'll have to take some measurements of your suspension when the car is on the ground.

 

I havent actually tracked my car yet.. also, am waiting for warranty to expire hehe .. I would raise my car if I did track because I do feel my car is too low. i actually have it lower in the rear than in front.. when i do go to track i will first go all out with my OEM tires. my buddies go to the track all the time and tell me that i should learn my car's capabilities with the stockies first so when I do get stickier tires my driving will definitely be improved..

no problems with the questions, but im a newbie at this whole thing like you are. and its good to see someone else here with the Buddy Club setup! let me know if you do go to willow i might be down to go to. ..and im going to try and make it to the so cal meet next month..

 

here's pics of my car (when it was clean and dent & ding free ).. but yea anyways..

here's a front side shot:



rear camber shot:



rear corner shot:



notice the camber on it? its pretty low so the camber is definitely an issue. i have an spc camber kit, but have not installed it yet. i sort of like the camber on the rear..